Dear Jeffrey<br><br>Please remove me from your CC list. I've been a member of the Governance list since its inception, so there is no need - as much as I appreciate your concerns - to write to me separately.<br><br>Rui<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/8/18 Jeffrey A. Williams <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com">jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p>Eric and all,</p>
<p> </p>
<p> You got it exactly right here Eric. Unfortunately there are some as Karl kinda points out that</p>
<p>act childish in the seeking of internet governance, which is why at present Internet Governance</p>
<p>is a child. <br><br><br></p>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 0px;"><div class="im">-----Original Message----- <br>From: Eric Dierker <br>Sent: Aug 17, 2009 8:33 PM <br>To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>, Karl Auerbach <br>
Subject: Re: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace? <br><br>
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<div>Got that backwards Karl. Rights come first. Governance comes after.</div>
<div>Unless you prefer a declaration of government --- And then when ICANN gets around to it they give us stakeholder representation.</div>
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<div>You would have us determine all the rules and restrictions on individual users before establishing the rules and restrictions on the rulers. This is how we are doing it now. This is why no representative of broad inclusion replaced your board seat. When the people have no power then the powerful own all the people - slavery.</div>
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<div>Or you can have it Milton's preference. Benevolent dictators who know what is best for me and my children. But censorship and exclusion is not so benevolent in the hands of elitists.<br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 8/18/09, Karl Auerbach <i><<a href="mailto:karl@cavebear.com" target="_blank">karl@cavebear.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br>
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</div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><div class="im"><br>From: Karl Auerbach <<a href="mailto:karl@cavebear.com" target="_blank">karl@cavebear.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [governance] Monroe Doctrin for Cyberspace?<br>To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 12:20 AM<br><br>
</div><div class="im"><div>On 08/17/2009 01:14 PM, Paul Lehto wrote:<br>> One of the more powerful things in defense of the expansion of human<br>> freedom and equality...<br><br>One of the best ways to assure that a child fails is to require that child to compete with adults.<br>
<br>Internet governance is a child.<br><br>It is far, far too soon to engage on human rights issues as subjects of governance - one may discuss them, but an attempt to set forth today to build a supranational apparatus to protect those rights is likely to crash and fail.<br>
<br>It is better that internet governance take child steps to address issues that are more easily obtained, most particularly issues grounded in the level of service of internet services.<br><br>To make this concrete, an aspect of internet governance might be to establish service level definitions that must be met before a provider can claim to be offering support for VoIP. These would include not only bandwidth, delay, and jitter measures but also non-discrimination and privacy standards and a definition of what "management" measures are considered appropriate and what are not.<br>
<br>In the DNS space, internet governance efforts could have success in doing that which ICANN has not: the establishment of criteria for DNS root (and perhaps some TLD) providers in terms of their ability to turn DNS query packets into DNS response packets, establishing metrics of availability, responsivity, privacy, and non-discrimination.<br>
<br>There is also plenty of room to address the difficult issue of how one (whether that "one" be a person or a nation) to obtain assurances (not guarantees) of adequate levels of packet transport to support proposed applications. (For example, a nation that is considering a VoIP infrastructure might be concerned about assurances that that infrastructure can reach overseas.) Thus, internet governance issues might address the establishment of a clearinghouse through which users (and their agents) and providers might meet and arrange end-to-end assurances (again, not guarantees.)<br>
<br>There is plenty of work to be done that can be done with success and that can build credibility for a subsequent effort to deal with the more difficult issues that are the focus of your note.<br><br> --karl--<br>
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<p> </p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p> </p>
<div>Jeffrey A. Williams<br>Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 294k members/stakeholders strong!)<br>"Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -<br> Abraham Lincoln<br><br>"Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very<br>
often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt<br><br>"If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability<br>depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by<br>P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."<br>
United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]<br>===============================================================<br>Updated 1/26/04<br>CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of<br>
Information Network Eng. INEG. INC.<br>ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail <a href="mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com" target="_blank">jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com</a><br>Phone: 214-244-4827<br></div></blockquote>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>________________________________________________<br> <br> <br>Rui Correia<br>Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant<br>2 Cutten St<br>Horison <br>Roodepoort-Johannesburg, <br>
South Africa<br>Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336<br>Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838<br>_______________<br>áâãçéêíóôõúç<br>