<br>Milton i'm not a big fan of private email with elitist intellectuals. I'm holding you accountable here in your public role.<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/15/09, <b class="gmail_sendername">Milton L Mueller</b> <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
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<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Opposition to posting limits is not
advocacy of censorship, Joe. </span></font></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br>Mendacem memorem esse oporte. Don't pull this argumentative nonsense with me. Focus Milton. Focus. You are an elitist intellectual leader here. You set the minimum standards - abera lege?<br>
<br>You are seen here as a leader. Your job is to lead. Not feed the trolls. It is completely irrelevant at this point what you have to say in this. The big problem is that you keep feeding the censorship trolls. Your so called advocacy amounts to no more nor less then fanning the flames that keep the censorship trolls trolling. Your BWG - you know what your doing - you should known better - isto pensitaris.<br>
<br>You have also libeled and slander Jeff Williams, Hugh Dierker, Karl Peter and myself. I dismiss it as party games and i'm sure Hugh and Jeff can look after themselves. But to liable and slander Karl Peters? Thats very impolitic of you. Nes pas? Karl Peters sees you as a patron saint of the TLDA? According to them - thats Bradley Thornton, Gene Marsh, and Richard Sexton you promised them support to the TLDA if needed. I detect some non disclosed conflict of interest in this libel and slander.<br>
<br>But you don't know Karl. I can call Karl a fool - I know him well - but you can't. Karl is not your intellectual equal nor superior by any stretch of the imagination. I don't think there is any question of that. He is very much your inferior. By pointing him out like you did in your capacity as an intellectual elitist amounts to playing the bully. Thats not nice. The eltist intellectual has caused an inferior pain. There is blood on your hands.<br>
<br>You supposed to be helping Karl run the TLDA and fulfilling your promises. Not libeling and slandering on of it's officers and directors. Maybe your forgetful en mendacem memorem esse oporte.<br><br>Your contributions just amount to troll feeding and the eletist intelectual bullying of an unfortunate like Karl. How is Karl ever to get a job if someone references that with your position.<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US"><div><p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Trying reading more carefully next time.</span></font></p>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br>All I have to say to you and your conduct is da mihi sis bubulae frustrum assae, solana tuberosa in modo gallico fricta, ac quassum lactatum coagulatum crassum. That is tha appropriate position to take with you.<br>
<br>kindest regards<br>joe baptista<br><br> <br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US">
<div><p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">--MM</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
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<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">
<a href="http://publicroot.info" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">publicroot.info</a>@<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">gmail.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:publicroot.info@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">publicroot.info@gmail.com</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Joe Baptista<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 14, 2009 8:41
PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
Milton L Mueller<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Rui Correia<div><span class="e" id="q_1231ef3364e16459_1"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [governance] Trying
to "fix" the list</span></div></span></font></p>
</div><div><span class="e" id="q_1231ef3364e16459_3">
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:49 AM, Milton L Mueller <<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">mueller@syr.edu</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
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<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Rui makes a reasonable suggestion but I do not support
posting limits because the real problem is not the number of posts per person
but the quality and pertinence of the posts. e.g., </span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Censorship. That's the elitist intellectual in you advocating
censorship. Should you not instead be focusing your time on your inclusive GNSO
project? Instead of advocating censorship? Milton.<br>
</span></font></p>
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<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">if Parminder and Bill Drake are really going at it, I
wouldn’t mind seeing 10 each from both of them in one day. Any reasonable
posting limit – say, 5 per day – would still allow people who have nothing to
say but plenty of time, to waste our time and generate reactions from others. </span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">More elitist intellectual censorship moralist mongering. Milton - you are here to
lead - not feed the censorship trolls this nonsense.<br>
<br>
Now how is your little project going.? Where do I join?<br>
<br>
regards<br>
joe baptista<br>
</span></font></p>
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<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Rui Correia [mailto:<a href="mailto:correia.rui@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">correia.rui@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 14, 2009 5:49
AM</span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
Jeanette Hofmann<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [governance] Trying
to "fix" the list</span></font></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Dear All</span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<br>
I am on a list on which they imposed a quota of daily posting by members - that
will at least address the issue of having some members commenting on every
single posting that others submit on a given issue. Anyone exceeding the quota
gets a warning and after that suspension for x amount of time. <br>
<br>
Obviously there should be exceptions for list admin/ event up-date
announcements etc by list administrators.<br>
<br>
And implement something like this is no more censorship than setting a time
limit during question time/ not allowing same person to make more than one
question during question time/ not accepting submission of more than x hundred
words. Time is valuable, we are all very busy and so it is only fair that we
allow as many people a voice in as short time as possible, taking into account
that we have to set aside time to read others' contributions.<br>
<br>
And unless we are voting, could we perhaps cut down on "yes, I
agree"/ "good point, Joe Soap" - unless Joe Soap's point
actually makes you change your mind, in which case you might want to retract/
amend your earlier position making it clear that that is what you are doing.
<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Rui<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">2009/8/14
Jeanette Hofmann <jeanette@wzb.eu></span></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi all,<br>
<br>
I think it is a mistake to conflate the issue of discourse pollution with the
issue of decision making capacity.<br>
<br>
<br>
The strength of this list relies on its openness, which facilitates
contributions from IG participants and observers regardless of their membership
status. If we moved advocacy related discussions to more specific lists, the
general discussion list would most likely become irrelevant within a few
months. So, like Avri, I am very much against creating or moving the discussion
to new lists as a means of dealing with abuse.<br>
<br>
The creation of troll filters is a good interim solution but not sufficient to
protect the open space of this list. For example, filters don't prevent ad
hominem attacks.<br>
<br>
After having skimmed through the "unsubscribe" discussion of the last
10 days, I get the feeling that the lack of decision making capacity, which is
so typical for this list, applies also to the issue of trolls.<br>
<br>
My suggestion would be to ask the coordinators to come up with a few options
for action.<br>
One option, supported by Ginger and Parminder, is to move this discussion
elsewhere.<br>
Another option would be to adjust our charter by adding a section on abuse.<br>
<br>
The following para of our charter, for example, could be expanded a bit to take
into account other forms of of discourse pollution:<br>
<br>
"Some of the specific guidelines that will be enforced include those
relating to:<br>
*No personal insults<br>
*No spam"<br>
<br>
The members of this list would have to agree on a general definition of abuse
and appropriate means of action against it.<br>
<br>
<br>
There might be other options. In any case, I would like to ask out coordinators
to apply some form of leadership to overcome the present impasse and help
restoring this discussion space.<br>
<font color="#888888"><span style="color: rgb(136, 136, 136);"><br>
jeanette</span></font></span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
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</div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
Rui Correia<br>
Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant<br>
2 Cutten St<br>
Horison <br>
Roodepoort-Johannesburg, <br>
South Africa<br>
Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336<br>
Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838<br>
_______________<br>
áâãçéêíóôõúç</span></font></p>
</div>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
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</blockquote>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Joe Baptista<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Joe Baptista<br><br><a href="http://www.publicroot.org">www.publicroot.org</a><br>PublicRoot Consortium<br>----------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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