<div>Thank you for the inclusion.</div>
<div>There is much that is interesting and relevant in the current conversations, and something for everyone, as it seems there should be by the very nature of the 'universe of discourse.'</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best wishes and *Respectfully Interfacing,* LDMF.<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com">jwkckid1@ix.netcom.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p>Eric and all,</p>
<p> </p>
<p> I agree with Eric and especially Carltons remarks below. Unfortunately I am censored on the governance</p>
<p>list for reasons that I do not know, nor can any rational person support. </p>
<p> </p>
<p> Selective censorship benifits no one and damages to one degree or another all. Openess and transparency</p>
<p>benifits everyone, and anyone.<br><br><br></p>
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<div class="h5">-----Original Message----- <br>From: Eric Dierker <br>Sent: Aug 12, 2009 1:34 PM <br>To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>, Carlton Samuels , Avri Doria <br>
Subject: Re: [governance] Trying to "fix" the list -- full support <br><br>
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<div>I hope no one views these positions as "against anyone". They are clearly in support of the Idea, and all Ideas need support. They are not in support of a personality they are in support of the notion of finding solutions. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Regardless of my position on segregation and divisions and borders and boundaries I am totally in support of open dialogs to make all feel a "part of" our grand designs. Personally I really like people who try to fix things instead of walking away or throwing away.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Also I like Gingers' idea of giving some alternatives a shot. See if they work. We can at least learn if they turn into mistakes.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>And lastly I think it is important to provide for safe lists for the socially handicapped to participate in. It is not fair for those of us who can withstand "slings and arrows" to expect all with worthy intellects to be so capable. Our folks who cannot handle the constant exposure to the infectious demands of the users should be allowed some prophylactic antibiotics to prevent serious social injury.<br>
<br>--- On <b>Wed, 8/12/09, Carlton <span>Samuels</span> <i><<a href="mailto:carlton.samuels@uwimona.edu.jm" target="_blank">carlton.samuels@uwimona.edu.jm</a>></i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid"><br>From: Carlton Samuels <<a href="mailto:carlton.samuels@uwimona.edu.jm" target="_blank">carlton.samuels@uwimona.edu.jm</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [governance] Trying to "fix" the list<br>To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>, "Avri Doria" <<a href="mailto:avri@psg.com" target="_blank">avri@psg.com</a>><br>
Date: Wednesday, August 12, 2009, 3:11 PM<br><br>
<div><font size="4"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms, sans-serif">I support Avri's idea.<br><br>Quite apart from the transparency objective I know we all can support, I am troubled that expressing a contrary opinion, even if it is less than collegial or even polite, is seen as cause to censor.<br>
<br>Maybe it's because I am now steeped in the somewhat brutal politics of academia.........but a bruised ego should be acceptable collateral damage in any full and frank discussion.</span><br style="FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms, sans-serif">
<br style="FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms, sans-serif"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms, sans-serif">Carlton</span></font> <font size="4"><span style="FONT-FAMILY: comic sans ms, sans-serif">Samuels</span></font><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:16 AM, Avri Doria <span dir="ltr"><<a href="http://us.mc839.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=avri@psg.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">avri@psg.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Hi,<br><br>It would be a fundamental change to the openness of the list. Especially given the number of well respected people who are participants on the list and not 'members'.<br>
<br>I would not be in favor because it is a movement away from transparency (not matter what i feel about being personally baited from time to time) and because it would end a very important kind of outreach this list has - one can sign up, be here, participate and then decide to join when it came time to vote on something (or sooner if wished).<br>
<br>If anything i would recommend, and support, the creation of smaller side lists that were topical and project oriented (i.e. to write a statement on x), closed for posting to IGC members and invited others, but with open archives.<br>
<br>a.
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<div><br><br>On 12 Aug 2009, at 10:07, Ginger Paque wrote:<br><br></div></div>
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<div>Is it possible for us to propose and implement a trial procedure to later be voted upon and approved by the list?<br><br>Can we ask cpsr to open another list for the IGC, called "related topics". This would be an open list. We would change the governance list from an open list to a moderated membership, where new members would have to be approved by the coordinators upon signing up.<br>
<br>Coordinators could transfer any thread to the related topic list if it is not directly related to IG process substance. This would be one of the duties of the coordinators, and would not require approval, vote or consensus.<br>
<br>After 60 days or so, we could vote on the procedure and add it to the charter.<br><br>Is this practical, appropriate, legal?<br><br>Any thoughts?<br><br>I ran into Alejandro Pissanty (sp?) yesterday and he thinks we should take pre-emptive action and remove three people. I do not think that is a proper procedure, although I have to admit, I would be willing to do it, and then resign for improper conduct, if I thought the ICG would be able to make it stick :o)<br>
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<p> </p></div></div>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p><span lang="en-us"> </span></p>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all">
<div></div><br>-- <br><br>Dr.Linda D. Misek-Falkoff, NGO Representative to United Nations ECOSOC (CCC/UN and World Education Fellowship).<br>Founder/Director "Respectful Interfaces* Programme - Communications Coordination Committee for the U.N.)<br>
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