<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Hi</span></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">On Jul 16, 2009, at 8:57 AM, Ian Peter wrote:</span></font></div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></font><blockquote type="cite"><div> <font><font><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Just so my position is clear I am happy with the “may suffer” compromise, or alternatively with Bill’s text. But as others are clearly opposed to Bill’s text and it won’t pass consensus, I will not oppose “may suffer”. The question now is whether inclusion with “may suffer” will be accepted in a consensus statement or whether the whole paragraph should be dropped. My reading is the paragraph should be in the text unless a a significant number of people oppose it.<br></span></font></font></font></div></blockquote></div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">Likewise, the text demanding recommendations won't pass consensus. McTim is opposed, and I'm opposed, on procedural more than substantive grounds. Re: the latter, I'm not convinced that trying to negotiate (yes, that's what would be involved) recs necessarily would turn out to be disaster---it would depend on a whole bunch of unknowns about modalities and focus etc on which open dialogue would be needed to arrive at some clarity. Equally, I'm not convinced that trying to negotiate recs necessarily would be a panacea for all that ails the IGF, or IG more generally. But re: the former, I am definitely convinced that we cannot move forward via processes in which one side of a polarized discussion wins by sheer persistence, waving away the other side's views, implying that if people don't agree then they are spineless jellyfish unwilling to stand up for the public interest, etc. </span></font></div><div><br></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">How a statement saying caucus members have various views but all want an open dialogue on the matter could be unacceptable is beyond me. Even for people who want the IGF to be doing recs, I don't think insisting on this ex ante makes tactical sense. Calling for an open dialogue on the matter would seem more likely to provide a lever to nudge things in the "right" direction (let's see who would stand up and oppose an open dialogue) than simply demanding something that many other key parties strongly oppose.</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;">On Jul 16, 2009, at 7:33 AM, Parminder wrote:</span></font></div><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000"><br></font>I am not sure about the other side's position, and the firmness of it. Ian did agree earlier to the 'non-binding' part - and to the whole statement as it stands. Bill strongly suggested that it is not really so much his view (correct me if I am wrong but that is what I read from his email) but that of some significant others. Now who are these hidden others who do not want to step up and share their views. And if they do not care to, IGC statement can go without their views. The basis of IGC's positions is deliberation based consensus, and if people do not want to submit to this then it is entirely their choice. </span></font></div></blockquote><font class="Apple-style-span" size="5"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 18px;"><br></span></font></div><div>We have been talking about recommendations off and on for four years now. Back when WGIG released its report in July 2005 I think we expressed cautious support for the idea of recs--indeed, those of us in the WGIG CS contingent were much involved in writing the text that morphed into the TA mandate---because at that point the IGF was an abstraction, and some of us certainly were hoping for a more substantial institutional formation in which it could have worked. But after IGF was established, basically as an annual conference, people's thinking evolved in different directions, and I don't recall (anyone else?) that we ever again expressed support for recs in the many caucus statements to follow. I don't have time to go digging through the list archive, particularly since our subject lines are frequently not indicative of message content, but at various points along the way I believe that people like Wolfgang, Jeanette, and Adam have spoken against recs (don't want to put words in their mouths, they can please correct me if I'm wrong) and that others have as well. </div><div><br></div><div>That many people are for whatever reasons are not participating in this discussion does not mean we should just wave away their previously expressed stances. As Parminder agreed, "you snooze you lose" is not a good basis for consensus decision making. Of course, if those who opposed before now want to reverse and support rec negotiations, that would change things, but absent that it's not a consensus position in my view.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Bill</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></body></html>