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At 21:43 31/05/2009, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Er, how about the restructuring
of the board to have a controlling number of seats for paying members
than those who formerly controled ISOC?<br>
Isn't that a form a 'favoritism'? (Apologies if I have the timing
wrong, but wasn't that during your tenure?)<br>
</blockquote><br>
Dear George,<br>
my point was not to raise a dispute. It was only to make clear that as a
sustaining member I understand I have no Trustee representing me, that I
understand the priorities of some, and that I have to fight myself to
sustain my own points of view against what I perceive as a consortium
oriented creep. Because I do not think that such a creep is a good thing
for the Internet. However, after years and years where I tried to
technically catalyze a positive evolution at the IETF, after having been
ignored, laughed at, I am now attacked (I suppose you know what Gandhi
said about that strategy). This means that, unfortunately, a soft
catalyzis will not succeed because some big interests are at stake (that
IAB documented this well in its RFC 3869) :<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite=""><pre> The principal
thesis of this document is that if commercial funding
is the main source of funding for future Internet research,
the
future of the Internet infrastructure could be in
trouble. In
addition to issues about which projects are funded, the
funding
source can also affect the content of the research, for
example,
towards or against the development of open standards, or
taking
varying degrees of care about the effect of the developed
protocols
on the other traffic on the
Internet.</pre><font face="Courier New, Courier"></font></blockquote><br>
A network cannot be a place of conflicts. This means that we have to
compose. This means that since the current ISOC leadership does not wish
to represent "users" so much and does not express interest in
"people" (in the IGF/WSIS way) we had to:<br><br>
1) organizea way for the ead users to contribute to the IETF (along with
RFC 3935 which organises the IETF). This is the purpose of the IUCG (pls
look at the Charter).<br>
2) as you say, ask the ISOC current leadership their position. Since they
do not respond, the best was to be practical. I observed the way they did
not support the French Chapter when put under attack, may be because that
chapter has always been rebel to unique thinking. I listened to the ISOC
meetings when they came in Paris last year. I am one of the few still
being present on the French chapter list, now under the direction of a
new commer. I tested staff with the "IPv6 Users Chapter"
proposition. I keep reading some of the texts coming from leadership..
<br>
3) as a result to move ahead and document a modern vision of the Internet
that is able to match the users' needs, before the vendors' strategic
interests. <br><br>
If ISOC is truely ISOC there must be room for everyone in it :
corporations, sustaining members, chapters, local members. I am not sure
it is still the case, nor that the staff wants it. I am sure I want and
we can make it to be the case. I am also sure I am not alone in sharing
your and others' anxiety that ISOC stays Membership's driven. My test is
the OK or not to permit us/me to form the "User IPv6 Chapter" -
we are perfectly legitimate to create.<br><br>
Best.<br><br>
jfc<br><br>
<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">On Sun, 31 May 2009, George
Sadowsky wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">This is getting to be a silly
argument.<br>
Norbert: you know full well that ISOC is not governed the way Cambodia
is. Why make the post?<br>
Parminder: You seem to have a lot of problems.<br>
I was on the ISOC Board for 7 years, stepping down in 2004. I never
saw any evidence of favoritism to commercial entities that were donors to
ISOC. I doubt that this has changed.<br>
I suggest that if you want an explanation of of what this membership
applications means, you go directly to ISOC and ask them.<br><br>
George<br><br>
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ <br>
At 12:40 AM +0700 6/1/09, Norbert Klein wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Thanks, Parminder, for extending
the text of the quote.<br>
Living in Cambodia, I know what "sponsorship" can
mean.<br><br>
Norbert<br>
=<br>
On Sunday, 31 May 2009 23:20:47 Parminder wrote:<br>
> George Sadowsky wrote:<br>
> > All,<br>
> > > > I believe that what Jefsey writes about
platinum members of ISOC being<br>
> > able to designate areas for standardization (presumably
in the IETF,<br>
> > since that's where that happens) is and incorrect.
The quote below<br>
> > does not come from the page he references.<br>
> > George,<br>
> > What Jefsey wrote does come directly from the
document he links, if you<br>
> keep reading it after the quote you refer to. The full
quote in the<br>
> document is:<br>
> > "The Platinum Sponsorship Program allows
your company to specifically<br>
> designate areas or projects to be supported in the
fields of a)<br>
> Standards, b) Public Policy or c) Education and
Training. Your<br>
> organization will have enhanced, direct consultation
with ISOC > regarding<br>
> its activities in your funded area. Additional benefits
also apply."<br>
> > > The actual quote on that page is:<br>
> > > > "Supporting our
Platinum Program gives your company the ability to<br>
> > focus your contributions
specifically on the essential work of the<br>
> > IETF and our Standards
activities.."<br>
> > > > Supporting the standards activities in general
is not the same as, as<br>
> > he suggests, specifically designating areas or
projects to be<br>
> > supported in the fields of standards.<br>
> > > > George<br>
> > Now that you know what he quoted is correct, what
are your comments on<br>
> it, as someone who I understand is closely associated
with ISOC. BTW<br>
> the term 'enhanced .... consultations' reminds me of
something :) but<br>
> that is another matter .<br>
> > I have a huge problem with anyone being allowed to
buy a position on > the<br>
> governance system of a body which is either closely
involved in policy<br>
> making, or claims to be a civil society body (and
ISOCs seems to do<br>
> both). I also have problem with providing any kind of
preferred access<br>
> to policy spaces for private interests that are impacted
by the<br>
> concerned policies, which is expressly mentioned in the
above quote. My<br>
> concerns follow from what are hallowed canons of
democratic societies,<br>
> and the fact that we are increasingly compromising them
is indeed > alarming.<br>
> > I find these practices fundamentally antithetical
to building of<br>
> legitimate and democratic governance and civil society
structures and<br>
> basically against public interest. However, regrettably,
the ideology<br>
> behind these kinds of practices is catching on which I
think is one of<br>
> the biggest dangers our society faces today. (Remember,
it was tried at<br>
> the IGF as well, with a threat to pull out funding if
certain issues<br>
> were raised at the IGF.)<br>
> > I brought up exactly the same point at the recent
workshop on APC-CoE's<br>
> proposed code of good practices on participation,
transparency etc. The<br>
> list of the IG organizations reviewed in the study done
by David Souter<br>
> for the above proposed code included ISOC. I inter alia
raised the > issue<br>
> that we also need to review practices related to the
relationship of<br>
> funding with seats in governance structures and preferred
access to<br>
> policy spaces. This is an important aspect of
participation and<br>
> transparency, which just cannot be left out.<br>
> > I earnestly hope that ISOC as a body involved in
policy making, or as a<br>
> civil society entity, or both, will respond to these key
issues that > are<br>
> being raised about its practices.<br>
> > Parminder<br>
> > PS: At another place the ISOC doc says:
"...you can direct your support<br>
> dollars towards the Internet Society's public
policy activities and<br>
> ensure that your voice will be heard on these
critical issues". Does<br>
> ISOC act as a lobbying organization on behalf of any big
corporate that<br>
> can afford to pay it? Are the public policy positions of
ISOC then not<br>
> obviously disproportionately influenced by these big
corporate funders?<br>
> These are important questions ISOC must answer as a key
player in the<br>
> public arena vis a vis IG issues.<br><br>
--<br>
If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit<br>
The Mirror, a regular review of the Cambodian language press in
English.<br>
This is the latest weekly editorial:<br>
Law Enforcement<br>
<a href="http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/law-enforcement-sunday-24-5-2009/" eudora="autourl">
http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/law-enforcement-sunday-24-5-2009/</a>
<br>
(To read it, click on the line above.)<br>
And here is something new every day:<br>
<a href="http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com</a><br>
PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9<br><br>
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</blockquote><br>
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