<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Ian<br>
<br>
I agree with your approach. Thats the best route to try for a common
IGC position. Parminder <br>
</font><br>
Ian Peter wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:C643EA70.2663%25ian.peter@ianpeter.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Folks,
I am trying to follow all the threads here while on the road with very
little time - I intend to come up with a new draft for discussion about 24
hours from now.
We are not going to get consensus here for either an extension of JPA or
abandoning JPA with no conditions. That seems clear already. Therefore we
seem to be down to arguing an immediate cessation of JPA with certain
conditions. I would like people to consider whether that is an acceptable
IGC position (obviously the conditions needs some discussion).
I'll get to a draft in 24 hours or so, we will then have about a week to
finalise.
Ian Peter
On 28/05/09 2:20 AM, "Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:froomkin@law.miami.edu"><froomkin@law.miami.edu></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Wed, 27 May 2009, Milton L Mueller wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Michael: I have to defer to you on the administrative law issues,
obviously. If you could tell us which "several countries" are that have
the strong tradition and worked out rules it would help.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">I don't know enough about the world's systems to give you a list. US and
Canada would be on it, UK would not, is all I can really tell you. I
apologize for my parochialism.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">My primary concern is with substantive constraints on what ICANN does
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">jand what it cannot do. E.g., I would like to have a very clear, simple
statement that ICANN policies can be designed to regulate freedom of
expression concerns as expressed in Article 19, and I would also like to
see basic trade principles (nondiscrimination especially) somehow
incorporated. Since these constraints are Internet-specific in many ways I
can't see tying it to national law. They need to be globally applicable
and their relevance to the specifics of Internet governance clear.
</pre>
<pre wrap="">I didn't follow that. If you have rules tied to a national law with good
human rights, protection for freedom of speech (I hope you meant "Icann
policies can NOT be designed to regulate freedom of expression"???) that
flows right in. There's little that is internet-specific about freedom
and non-discrimination.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Milton Mueller
Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies
XS4All Professor, Delft University of Technology
------------------------------
Internet Governance Project:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://internetgovernance.org">http://internetgovernance.org</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:froomkin@law.miami.edu">mailto:froomkin@law.miami.edu</a>]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 10:52 AM
To: '<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>'; Milton L Mueller
Subject: RE: [governance] JPA
This is why tying to a nation's law (as opposed to
'international law') of
administrative makes sense: it's at the national level that
we have well
worked-out ideas of due process and basic rights to be heard.
International law, which is still primarily about states and
international
organizations, does not have a body of jurisprudence that
speaks to those
issues.
The US APA is one model; Canada has a different on. The UK's
model of
administrative review, on the other hand, is relatively feeble.
Several countries have a strong tradition, and well worked-out rules,
about procedural regularity, that is rules which police fairness,
conflicts of interest, the right to be heard, without being too
heavy-handed in their substantive review. Those are good
models, they
took decades to develop, and one should be adopted rather
than reinvented
from the ground up.
On Wed, 27 May 2009, Milton L Mueller wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> I also think that suggesting an 'international judidical body'
for adjudication CIR/ related IG issues as a more urgent step
would be useful, since a full treaty process could take long
time. The model and legal basis for such a judicial or quasi-
judicial body can be discussed. ,
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Same issue as my last message.
What rules/law does this quasi-judicial body apply? Without
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">that, it's useless second-guess or a
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">dangerous political bypass mechanism.
We've tried to skip that stage for 10- years and it hasn't
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">worked. Let's get down to it.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">--
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.icannwatch.org">http://www.icannwatch.org</a> Personal Blog: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.discourse.net">http://www.discourse.net</a>
A. Michael Froomkin | Professor of Law | <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:froomkin@law.tm">froomkin@law.tm</a>
U. Miami School of Law, P.O. Box 248087, Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA
+1 (305) 284-4285 | +1 (305) 284-6506 (fax) | <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.law.tm">http://www.law.tm</a>
-->It's warm here.<--
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
____________________________________________________________
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>
To be removed from the list, send any message to:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a>
For all list information and functions, see:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>