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Milton L Mueller wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D7705BAD7E@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu"
type="cite">
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<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="092225013-13042009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">There is another, deeper problem
with Parminder's formulation. When we talk about "participative
political governance" we need to explicitly recognize that "democratic"
governance must always take place within a framework of protected
rights of individuals. Majorities can be as oppressive as unaccountable
tyrants, we all know. So while I prefer Parminder's reference to
"participative political governance by all people of the world" to
vague references to "multistakeholderism" I think that will sound
threatening to many people unless we also make it clear that such
governance is limited and contained by rights and freedoms _from_
governance in the appropriate areas.</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
I very much agree with the substance of your posting. However, when I
mention 'democratic' in the title itself i think it obviously includes
the nunace and evovled meaning of democracy as generaly understood -
which included constitutionalism (that is why we advocate for adopting
Internet rights and principles), human rights, structured participation
etc - it is not about simple tyranny of numbers.<br>
<br>
><span class="092225013-13042009"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"
size="2">take place within a framework of protected rights of
individuals. <br>
<br>
<font color="#000000"><big><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Human
rights is the accepted term, in all its nuances that we have argued
often about and disagreed :) . </font></big></font></font></span>I am
quite happy with adding 'human rights framework' to the present
proposed text. Building on the text I proposed in my last email, it can
be something like<br>
<br>
<span class="890172305-13042009"><font size="2"><font face="Arial"><span
class="625262603-13042009">"</span></font></font></span>One thing
however is clear by now; the
Internet is not just a technical artifact, requiring technical
governance with regard to keeping it running smoothly, but a key
socio-political phenomenon requiring participative political governance
by all people of the world, ensured through multi-stakeholder models,
and adopting human rights frameworks.<span>"<br>
<br>
parminder </span><span class="890172305-13042009"><font size="2"><font
face="Arial"><span class="625262603-13042009"></span><span
class="625262603-13042009"></span></font></font></span><br>
<br>
<span class="092225013-13042009"><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial"
size="2"><br>
</font></span><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:75822E125BCB994F8446858C4B19F0D7705BAD7E@SUEX07-MBX-04.ad.syr.edu"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="092225013-13042009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2"> </font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="092225013-13042009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2">Milton Mueller<br>
Professor, Syracuse University School of Information Studies<br>
XS4All Professor, Delft University of Technology<br>
------------------------------<br>
Internet Governance Project:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://internetgovernance.org/">http://internetgovernance.org</a><br>
</font></div>
<div> </div>
<br>
<blockquote dir="ltr"
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left"
lang="en-us">
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b> Ian
Peter [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 13, 2009 1:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Parminder'; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Fwd: [governance] Workshop proposal -
Internationalisation of IG<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="890172305-13042009"><font
size="2"><font face="Arial">Parminder, my problems with the way you
have phrased this is below.</font></font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="890172305-13042009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="890172305-13042009"><font
face="Arial" size="2">The wording "Participative political governance
by all people of the world, who are all implicated" will, I think,
lead to an argument that the appropriate participative structures for
all people are governments, and sovereign states are the basic building
blocks for people's participation in internet governance (and so the
rest of you can go home!) Unless we have strong arguments - which we
do - that other players such as private sector and CS need to be
represented separately because of the nature of their structures and
their avenues for richer levels of participation.</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="890172305-13042009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="890172305-13042009"><font
face="Arial" size="2">I dont think we are far apart here but we do
need some appropriate wording. How about</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="890172305-13042009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="890172305-13042009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="890172305-13042009">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"><font
face="Arial" size="2">One thing however is clear by now; the Internet
is not just a technical artifact, requiring technical governance with
regard to keeping it running smoothly, </font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><font size="2"><font face="Arial"><span
class="625262603-13042009">but a key socio-political phenomenon<span
class="890172305-13042009">. This</span> requir<span
class="890172305-13042009">es</span> participative political <span
class="890172305-13042009">involvement of</span> all people<span
class="890172305-13042009">, </span></span><span
class="625262603-13042009">in<span class="890172305-13042009">cluding</span>
civil society, private sector and governmental actors in
multistakeholder governance structures</span></font></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"></span> </div>
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="890172305-13042009"></span> </div>
<div> </div>
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoAutoSig" align="left">Ian Peter</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig">PO Box 429</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig">Bangalow NSW 2479</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig">Australia</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig">Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ianpeter.com">www.ianpeter.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"> </p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div> </div>
<br>
<blockquote dir="ltr"
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left"
lang="en-us">
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
Parminder [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">mailto:parminder@itforchange.net</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 April 2009 14:14<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>; Ian Peter<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fwd: [governance] Workshop proposal -
Internationalisation of IG<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<br>
<br>
Ian Peter wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:1AD164692D984486A3F5A03DA4BCFE11@IAN"
type="cite">
<meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.5726" name="GENERATOR">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">Thanks Parminder - one small
suggested change</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009">>One
thing however is clear by now; the Internet is not just a technical
artifact, requiring technical governance with regard to keeping it
running smoothly, </span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009">>
but a key socio-political phenomenon requiring participative political
governance [by all people of the world, who are all implicated]</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009">Can
I suggest replacing the bracketed words with " involving civil society,
private sector and governmental actors in multistakeholder governance
structures</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"></span> </div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"><font
color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">How does that sit?</font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
Ian, <br>
<br>
Frankly, I believe that the basic political purpose is to get equal
political representation of all people and all sections of people, of
the world. Multistakeholderism is *only a means*, to the extent it does
achieve the purpose, of ensuring that such participation is in fact
achieved. I have great issues in mentioning multistakeholderism
*instead of* participation of all people. Such a stance underlies a new
political ideology that is taking strong roots in the world, which in
my view is essentially anti-democratic. I have no problem with *also*
mentioning multistakeholderism along with political participation of
people of the world. <br>
<br>
regards<br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1AD164692D984486A3F5A03DA4BCFE11@IAN"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span class="625262603-13042009"></span> </div>
<div> </div>
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoAutoSig" align="left">Ian Peter</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig">PO Box 429</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig">Bangalow NSW 2479</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig">Australia</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig">Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773</p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ianpeter.com">www.ianpeter.com</a></p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"> </p>
<p class="MsoAutoSig"><O:P></O:P></p>
</div>
<div> </div>
<br>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div class="OutlookMessageHeader" dir="ltr" align="left"
lang="en-us">
<hr tabindex="-1"> <font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b>
Parminder [<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">mailto:parminder@itforchange.net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 April 2009 13:07<br>
<b>To:</b> '<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Fwd: [governance] Workshop proposal -
Internationalisation of IG<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<br>
This is an attempted draft for the proposed internationalisation
workshop. <br>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Title</b><O:P></O:P></p>
<U1:P></U1:P>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><U1:P><br>
Democratic internationalization of Internet Governance - The way
forward from where we stand today <br>
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--><br>
<!--[endif]--></U1:P></b><O:P></O:P></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Concise description (up to 200 words)<O:P></O:P></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><O:P></O:P><br>
</b>As the Internet becomes a key factor of reorganizing our
social structures, and doing so at a global level as never before,
democratic global governance of the Internet is a pressing imperative.
Its present governance structures grew out of certain historical
contexts, as well as of some new socio-political realities around the
Internet. In the context of rapid changes that the Internet has
wrought, the key and emerging issues related to its governance, and the
correspondingly legitimate governance arrangements, could not have been
anticipated by anyone. One thing however is clear by now; the Internet
is not just a technical artifact, requiring technical governance with
regard to keeping it running smoothly, but a key socio-political
phenomenon requiring participative political governance by all people
of the world, who are all implicated.<span> </span>However, the
direction we move in from here depends on where we stand. It is
important to analyze the needs of evolution and internationalization of
IG from these dual standpoints. <O:P></O:P></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><O:P></O:P><br>
The workshop will seek to discuss some real institutional possibilities
of what to do next, possibly presenting and analyzing alternative
models, along with the advantages and disadvantages of each.<span> </span><b><span>
</span><O:P></O:P></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><O:P></O:P><br>
Relates to theme –<U1:P> </U1:P></b>IG, CIRs<O:P></O:P></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><U1:P></U1:P></b><br>
<span class="cftext"><b>Who would you approach as
co-organizers ? Or who do you think should organize it?</b></span><O:P></O:P></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><O:P></O:P><br>
It is best that this workshop is organized by civil society actors. IG
Caucus will like to organize this workshop, along with some<span> </span>civil
society organizations form the North and South that have shown
interest. </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><O:P></O:P></p>
<br>
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