<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML>Hi,<br/><br/>full, unqualified apology for too harsh statment not meant generally.<br/><br/>The offence produced is beyond excuse without further particulars.<br/><br/>Alejandro Pisanty<br/><br/>Alejandro Pisantu<br/><p>Sent via BlackBerry</p><p><hr size=2 width=100% align=center tabindex=-1><b>From</b>: "Alejandro Pisanty" <apisan@servidor.unam.mx><br><b>Date</b>: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 04:17:12 +0000<br><b>To</b>: <governance@lists.cpsr.org>; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy<isolatedn@gmail.com><br><b>Subject</b>: Re: [governance] a very grounded and divergent perspective on NetNeutrality<br></font></p><HEAD> <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </HEAD>S,<br/><br/>Don't be too concerned. Sit back and watch the ongoing discussion as a form of intellectual porn, akin to mud-wrestling.<br/><br/>Alx<br/><p>Sent via BlackBerry</p><p><hr size=2 width=100% align=center tabindex=-1><b>From</b>: "Sivasubramanian Muthusamy" <isolatedn@gmail.com><br><b>Date</b>: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 13:51:39 +0530<br><b>To</b>: <governance@lists.cpsr.org>; Milton L Mueller<mueller@syr.edu><br><b>Subject</b>: Re: [governance] a very grounded and divergent perspective on Net Neutrality<br></font></p>Hello Milton,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 11:51 AM, Milton L Mueller <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu">mueller@syr.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"> <div> <p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Parminder:</span></font></p> <p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Happy holidays, all. Sorry for the slow response. </span></font></p> <p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p> <p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">It seems that we have had this conversation before, and you always have to agree that I am right but it never seems to make an impression on your political rhetoric. So I will try again (because<br> I am just as persistent as you, and will not allow policies or principles that are incorrect to be established simply because someone keeps repeating them.</span></font></p> <p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p> <div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;"><div class="Ih2E3d"> <p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">We need to develop and anchor such basic principles that maximize the possibilities of the Internet as a new revolutionary network – whose central characteristics (mentioned in social rather than technical terms) should be that</span></font></p> <p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";"> </span></font></p> <p style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span>1.<font face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> </span></font></span></span></font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">In terms of ownership – it is public</span></font></p> <p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p> </div> <p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">As I have explained numerous times, the essential characteristic of the internet is NOT that it is public; the networks and most of the investment are private. The STANDARDS are open and nonproprietary, but they are useful only because they allow any and all private networks and privately owned equipment to be interconnected. It is, in other words, the correct mixture of private and public elements, in their respective roles (to quote the TA) that makes it a success. The open protocols allow private initiative to flourish, and enable people to offer content and services without asking the public for permission. So the critical feature of the internet is in many ways precisely the opposite of what you are asserting. <br></span></font></p> <p><font face="Arial" size="2" color="navy"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I know that this does not conform to your ideology, but it's a fact. </span></font></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><font size="4">Parminder's point about ownership is exactly the kind of expression that sends out wrong signals from Civil Society to other stakeholders. Business as a stakeholder would misinterpret such expressions as a suggestion for a public take over of all the infrastructure that have been built mostly with private investments, which is unfair. Barring a few extreme exceptions, the Civil Society is always fair in acknowledging that the Internet Infrastrure took shape mostly with private investments. Perhaps Parminder also does not imply 'Public Ownership' of the equipment, wires and cables ? Or does he?<br><br>There is also a danger. When someone says 'public' and 'ownership' on the same line, there is a danger of this being interpreted not as a suggestion for "shared ownership" but rather as "ownership by governments", like how it was in the former Soviet Union and in India until the mid 80s. The line between public ownership and govenment 'ownership' is very thin, in that sense.<br><br><b>The Internet has evolved from a fusion of private enterprise and public participation, in a laissez faire climate. It needs to evolve further on the same model. </b><br><br>What is often missed is that there is public participation in business, though at an indirect level. Investments come from private enterprise which are originally funded by the public through the Stock Exchange ! Should I go back to the previous paragraph and edit it to say that Parminder is right? <br><br>And there is a possibility that further investments could come more from enterprises that embrace the "social enterprise" business models that would balance the Civil Society and Business positions??? <br></font></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><div style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;"> <p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I can agree on principles when they are articulated with a full, exacting respect for the technical and historical facts.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";"> <br></span></font></p> </div> </div> </div> <br>____________________________________________________________<br> You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br> To be removed from the list, send any message to:<br> <a href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a><br><br> For all list information and functions, see:<br> <a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance" target="_blank">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Sivasubramanian Muthusamy<br><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy">http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy</a><br><a href="http://www.circleid.com/members/3601/">http://www.circleid.com/members/3601/</a><br><a href="http://twitter.com/isocchennai">http://twitter.com/isocchennai</a><br><br> </html>