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<p class="MsoPlainText"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">>>We
need to develop and
anchor such basic principles that maximize the possibilities of the
Internet as
a new revolutionary network – whose central >> characteristics
(mentioned in
social rather than technical terms) should be that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="">>>1.<font
face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></font></span></span></font><!--[endif]--><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">In
terms of ownership – it is public<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">>As I
have explained
numerous times, the essential characteristic of the internet is NOT
that it is public;
the networks and most of the investment are private........ </span></font><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">>So
>the critical feature of the
internet is in many ways precisely the opposite of what you are
asserting.</span></font><br>
<font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><br>
<big><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Milton<br>
<br>
<font color="#000000">First of all, it is clear from my usage above,
and the background of this issue in the 'publicness of the Internet'
concept, that I speak of Internet being public not in strict legal
ownership terms, but in socio-political terms. </font><font
color="#000000">So you think the essential characteristic of the
Internet is that it is private ?? I do suspect so from your views on
network neutrality, but I will come to that in a seperate email. <br>
<br>
Your counter-arguments to my propositions are a bit slippery, and
shifting. When confronting the 'ownership' issue (not legalistic-ally,
but as everyone having in principle full and equal right to) you speak
of the Internet as the physical networks. And when I speak of the
'purpose' of the Internet, you switch to speaking of the Internet as
its essential protocols. Thats a bit, shall I say, disingenuous :-).
Because if we speak of Internet as its essential protocols it is easy
to agree about the publicness of the Internet. On the other hand, if we
speak of it as physical networks built with private investments it is
easier to speak of its purpose - which is private gain, with no
guarantee of public interest and gains. <br>
<br>
This brings us to the essential issue which my email dealt with -
trying to figure out the essential nature of the Internet, as we would
like to have, and from their possibly derive the basic public policy
principles for it. Would you not agree that this will be the logical
way to go about it. I know you too are quite interested in developing
the basic public policy principles for the Internet. Would you then
state what you think are the essential characteristics of the Internet,
and then we can debate it. </font></font></big><br>
<br>
</span></font><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">>The
STANDARDS are open and
nonproprietary, but they are useful only because they allow any and all
private
networks and privately owned equipment to be >interconnected. <br>
<big><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
<font color="#000000">Any public system - roads, infrastructure of the
market, laws, etc - are useful only because they facilitate private
individuals. Everyone knows that. This does not obliterate the
difference between the public and the private, does it!</font></font></big><br>
<br>
</span></font><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">>However,
because the
TCP/IP protocol suite’s ability to connect networks initially
outstripped
the understanding and capacity of governments to regulate....<br>
<br>
and the understanding and the capacity of the corporates to appropriate.<br>
<br>
> one could say that
its effect was more libertarian than egalitarian. But its uniform, open
nature did
indeed level the playing field and afford those interested in
>communicating
more equal rights than they have ever had before.</span></font><br>
<font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><br>
<font color="#000000"><big><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">This
is interesting. You say that the socio-political impact of the Internet
was incidental. Fine, I may accept that, but you also seem to be
non-committal about how it should be, hereon. Don't you want the
Internet to have any (socio-political) directions and purpose. If you
do want to it to have any, would you please state it. The whole debate
is about that. That is what we all are where about.</font></big></font><br>
<br>
></span></font><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">more
libertarian than egalitarian.<br>
<br>
<big><font color="#000000" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Now,
this is fair turf. This is really what we are discussing, the above was
mostly avoidable red-herring. (Though the term 'libertarian' is used by
so many different types, that it often confuses me. I understand you
are professing views more of what may be called as right-libertarian
kind. Please correct me if I am wrong, in India we are still not very
used to these terms). Since we want to keep our discussion practical,
and purposeful, I think a very good instantiation of the above
political difference is in our views on network neutrality. Will
discuss in another email. <br>
</font></big></span></font><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><font
color="#000000"><big><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><br>
parminder </font></big></font><br>
<br>
</span></font><br>
Milton L Mueller wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9028B2CD5@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Parminder:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Happy
holidays, all. Sorry for the slow
response. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">It seems
that we have had this
conversation before, and you always have to agree that I am right but
it never
seems to make an impression on your political rhetoric. So I will try
again
(because<br>
I am just as persistent as you, and will not allow policies or
principles that
are incorrect to be established simply because someone keeps repeating
them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div
style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">We need to
develop and
anchor such basic principles that maximize the possibilities of the
Internet as
a new revolutionary network – whose central characteristics (mentioned
in
social rather than technical terms) should be that<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="">1.<font
face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></font></span></span></font><!--[endif]--><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">In
terms of ownership – it is public<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">As I have
explained
numerous times, the essential characteristic of the internet is NOT
that it is public;
the networks and most of the investment are private. The STANDARDS are
open and
nonproprietary, but they are useful only because they allow any and all
private
networks and privately owned equipment to be interconnected. It is, in
other
words, the correct mixture of private and public elements, in their
respective
roles (to quote the TA) that makes it a success. The open protocols
allow
private initiative to flourish, and enable people to offer content and
services
without asking the public for permission. So the critical feature of
the
internet is in many ways precisely the opposite of what you are
asserting.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I know that
this does not
conform to your ideology, but it’s a fact. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"
style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-indent: -0.25in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";"><span style="">2.<font
face="Times New Roman" size="1"><span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></font></span></span></font><!--[endif]--><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">and
in terms of its key purpose, and orientation – it is egalitarian
(definition of ‘egalitarian’ from The American Heritage Dictionary
– “Affirming, promoting, or characterized by belief in equal
political, economic, social, and civil rights for all people”)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Again I
think you’ve
got it wrong. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Strictly
speaking, the
internet protocols do not have a “purpose” other than to establish
compatible data communications among any and all networks. However,
because the
TCP/IP protocol suite’s ability to connect networks initially
outstripped
the understanding and capacity of governments to regulate, one could
say that
its effect was more libertarian than egalitarian. But its uniform, open
nature did
indeed level the playing field and afford those interested in
communicating
more equal rights than they have ever had before. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";">Once we agree
to these
highest level principles as those most essential to what we call as the
Internet – their contextual elaborations can always be done, in
different
circumstances and as related to different issues and aspects. No
doubts, such
elaboration will itself be a political process, subject to political
trade-offs. The question is, are we as a world community – and to start
with as a group of progressive civil society – able to agree to these
(or
any other) social and political principles to be the highest
constitutive
principles for the Internet. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I can agree
on principles
when they are articulated with a full, exacting respect for the
technical and
historical facts. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman";"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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</blockquote>
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