<div dir="ltr">Meant to be addressed to: Hello Ian and All, (Milton's opinions are well respected. But this message is technically isn't a reply to Milton)<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:22 AM, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:isolatedn@gmail.com">isolatedn@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr">Hello Milton,<div class="Ih2E3d"><br><br>"right to have an Internet in
ones own language"<br><br></div>What if I say, "I speak Tamil at home, this discussion is an important public discussion, I demand an instant Tamil version in my mail box of all messages that everyone writes" or what if I say "I want all <a href="http://intgovforum.org" target="_blank">intgovforum.org</a> and all the collateral resources translated in Tamil in a Tamil website before this IGF is allowed to progress any further"? And what if I demand the proceedings of the IGF simultaneously interpreted in Tamil and all documents officially transcribed and published in Tamil? And in Spanish and Portuguese and American Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese and in Toda, the language of the Ooty mountains, in Sanskrit, in Tulu, in Assamese, in Kannada?<br>
<br>There is so much to be DELETED in this draft.<br><font color="#888888"><br>Sivasubramanian Muthusamy<br>India<br><br></font><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Ian Peter <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Well there might be different emphases in
a womens rights movement Milton and I don't think we need to demand the emphases
be exactly the same. But that and many other issues here can wait till another
day.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">The important thing is that we seem to
agree on the main thrust of the submission. I've enjoyed seeing the
differing points of view here but perhaps now we need to collectively
concentrate on getting the text together – next week the ongoing debate
can happily continue.</span></font></p><div>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
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<p><font color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy;">Ian Peter</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;"></span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy;">Ian Peter</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;"> and Associates Pty Ltd</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy;">PO Box 10670 Adelaide St Brisbane
4000</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy;">Australia</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy;"></span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy;">Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy;"><a href="http://www.ianpeter.com" target="_blank">www.ianpeter.com</a></span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
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<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Milton L Mueller
[mailto:<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> 09 September 2008 08:17<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
Ian Peter<div><div></div><div><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [governance] Inputs
for synthesis paper</div></div></span></font></p>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Ian Peter [mailto:<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, September 08, 2008
3:42 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [governance] Inputs
for synthesis paper</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">So womens rights is a collective right?
Indigenous land rights is a collective right? </span></font><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">No, unless you believe that the rights of
woman are completely different from the rights of men. In other words,
patriarchal (or matriarchal) societies that assign superior or different rights
based on gender believe in collective rights. Liberal societies that afford
men, women and the transgendered equal rights based ontheir status as
individuals are based on individual rights. So now tell me where you count
yourself. ;-)</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">Indigenous land rights are more
complicated. An individualist approach would certainly recognize the ability of
groups (e.g., publicly owned corporations or even political communities) to own
land, but see these as extensions of individual rights (as Tapani pointed out).
However, the property rights of a very different culture may not be
recognizable to a modern legal regime, and vice-versa, and so it may be better
to handle those situations as a kind of special sovereignty. However, a
collectivist approach to property rights can just as easily work against
indigenous minorities as for them. I am sure you know the history. </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"> </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">But for the sake of this submission, we
obviously need to reflect differing opinions. Can't we find a simple way
forward here? Isn't it as simple as a statement such as "while
differing opinions on individual and collective rights exist" within the
context of the general request, which is to make rights a main theme for Cairo? (which
doesn't seem to be disputed)</span></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"></span></font></p>
<p><font color="blue" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue;">That's what I thought my original edit
did. I'd be happy to delete the line about how state-provided internet access
might be used to violate other rights, even though I think the point is true
and salient, I recognize that it may be a bit too in-your-face. </span></font></p>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
</blockquote>
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<br></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div class="Ih2E3d"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy">http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy</a><br>
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