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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Well there might be different emphases in
a womens rights movement Milton and I don’t think we need to demand the emphases
be exactly the same. But that and many other issues here can wait till another
day.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The important thing is that we seem to
agree on the main thrust of the submission. I’ve enjoyed seeing the
differing points of view here but perhaps now we need to collectively
concentrate on getting the text together – next week the ongoing debate
can happily continue.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoAutoSig><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Ian Peter</span></font></st1:PersonName><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=3 color=navy
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Ian Peter</span></font></st1:PersonName><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'> and Associates Pty Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>PO Box <st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street
w:st="on">10670 Adelaide St</st1:Street> <st1:City w:st="on">Brisbane</st1:City></st1:address>
4000<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font
size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:navy'>Australia</span></font></st1:place></st1:country-region><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>www.ianpeter.com<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Milton L Mueller
[mailto:mueller@syr.edu] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 09 September 2008 08:17<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">governance@lists.cpsr.org</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Ian Peter</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [governance] Inputs
for synthesis paper</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Ian Peter</st1:PersonName> [mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, September 08, 2008
3:42 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">governance@lists.cpsr.org</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [governance] Inputs
for synthesis paper</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>So womens rights is a collective right?
Indigenous land rights is a collective right? </span></font><font size=2
color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>No, unless you believe that the rights of
woman are completely different from the rights of men. In other words,
patriarchal (or matriarchal) societies that assign superior or different rights
based on gender believe in collective rights. Liberal societies that afford
men, women and the transgendered equal rights based ontheir status as
individuals are based on individual rights. So now tell me where you count
yourself. ;-)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Indigenous land rights are more
complicated. An individualist approach would certainly recognize the ability of
groups (e.g., publicly owned corporations or even political communities) to own
land, but see these as extensions of individual rights (as Tapani pointed out).
However, the property rights of a very different culture may not be
recognizable to a modern legal regime, and vice-versa, and so it may be better
to handle those situations as a kind of special sovereignty. However, a
collectivist approach to property rights can just as easily work against
indigenous minorities as for them. I am sure you know the history. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>But for the sake of this submission, we
obviously need to reflect differing opinions. Can’t we find a simple way
forward here? Isn’t it as simple as a statement such as “while
differing opinions on individual and collective rights exist” within the
context of the general request, which is to make rights a main theme for <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Cairo</st1:City></st1:place>? (which
doesn’t seem to be disputed)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>That's what I thought my original edit
did. I'd be happy to delete the line about how state-provided internet access
might be used to violate other rights, even though I think the point is true
and salient, I recognize that it may be a bit too in-your-face. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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