<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:SimSun;
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:Latha;
panose-1:2 0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"\@SimSun";
panose-1:2 1 6 0 3 1 1 1 1 1;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Book Antiqua";
panose-1:2 4 6 2 5 3 5 3 3 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
p.MsoListParagraph, li.MsoListParagraph, div.MsoListParagraph
{mso-style-priority:34;
margin-top:0in;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:0in;
margin-left:.5in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle21
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle22
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
/* List Definitions */
@list l0
{mso-list-id:438112838;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:1452602082 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l0:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
@list l1
{mso-list-id:492835529;
mso-list-type:hybrid;
mso-list-template-ids:-563079694 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715 67698703 67698713 67698715;}
@list l1:level1
{mso-level-tab-stop:none;
mso-level-number-position:left;
text-indent:-.25in;}
ol
{margin-bottom:0in;}
ul
{margin-bottom:0in;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Consider this please<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Bertrand has CS cred .. you do acknowledge that. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>He works for the French government now. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>My position is –<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>He can still stand for election, it is his decision<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>When standing for election, he should not be excluded on the
basis of his employer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>When standing for election he will, as is the norm, make a
statement on what conflict of interest(s) he will have, and how he expects
those to affect his representation of the caucus, in the MAG<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><span
style='mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'>
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The nomcomm takes that statement into account, when accepting or
declining his candidacy <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The two positions I advocated are entirely consistent with each
other. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>suresh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Guru [mailto:guru@itforchange.net] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 27, 2008 8:00 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> governance@lists.cpsr.org; Suresh Ramasubramanian<br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'Avri Doria'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Nomcom and conflict of interest<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif"'>Suresh<br>
<br>
How is this consistent with your previous mail that <br>
</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>if some PERSON has CS cred, he has CS cred, regardless of
whatever organization (private sector, intl org, “ IAB” etc) that he
happens to work for.</span><br>
<br>
Not able to understand your position.<br>
<br>
Guru<br>
<br>
Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is up to him to
stand for election. And to declare any conflicts of interest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is THEN up to the
nomcomm to evaluate his statement of candidacy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoListParagraph style='text-indent:-.25in'><span style='font-size:
11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is not, with all
due respect, up to the nomcomm to apply a blanket ban</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Guru [<a
href="mailto:guru@itforchange.net">mailto:guru@itforchange.net</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 26, 2008 10:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Suresh Ramasubramanian<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
'Avri Doria'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Nomcom and conflict of interest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif"'>Suresh<br>
<br>
Bertrand has been active member of IGC and as a CS person in WSIS. He is
currently member of GAC, representing Govt of France. Do you think that he can
also be nominated by IGC to MAG under CS quota? </span><br>
<br>
<span style='font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif"'>Guru<br>
</span><br>
Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I will agree with Avri’s definition 100%, and again submit that
if some PERSON has CS cred, he has CS cred, regardless of whatever organization
(private sector, intl org, “ IAB” etc) that he happens to work for.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color blue'>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Guru [<a
href="mailto:guru@itforchange.net">mailto:guru@itforchange.net</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 26, 2008 9:38 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
Avri Doria<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Nomcom and conflict of interest</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Book Antiqua","serif"'>Avri,<br>
<br>
There is a serious problem when the same term is used to mean two different
things. It leads to a lot of confusion, when in an argument one person is using
one meaning and the other person, the second meaning.<br>
<br>
Can we try and use two different terms for these two categories.<br>
<br>
We could consistently use <br>
<br>
A. IAB (Internet Administration Bodies) for those "</span>those
_organizations_ that focus on work, often in a partially coordinated
manner, intended to insure the technical integrity and technical development of
the Internet." I would add - 'and participate in the administration /
governance of the internet'. The IGC submission in the feb consultations
clearly covered this group when it stated that the participation of IABs in MAG
should not be at the cost of CS participation'<br>
<br>
B. and use 'technical experts' (i am sure better names are possible) for
individuals - these experts can belong to Govt or Business or CS groups (as
also suggested by Raul). <br>
<br>
Guru<br>
ps- Still waiting from responses on this question from Suresh and McTim..<br>
<br>
<br>
Avri Doria wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
On 26 May 2008, at 11:27, Raul Echeberria wrote: <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>There are still many people that prefer to keep the
classification in 3 stakeholders group. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
and it is those people who make the rules. we don't get to decide how
many stakeholder groups there are in things that derive from the WSIS
decisions. we can argue for change, but we alone do not make the rules. <br>
<br>
the WSIS Tunis Agenda defined 3 groups plus 2 cross-cutting groups. so
within this environment we seem to be stuck with 3 stakeholder groups and 2
cross-cutting groups. <br>
<br>
btw, in another thread someone asked for a definition of the Internet technical
Community. in addition to what i have written abut it before i define it
as: <br>
<br>
those _organizations_ that focus on work, often in a partially
coordinated manner, intended to insure the technical integrity and technical
development of the Internet. <br>
<br>
the term can also be applied to those individuals, whether they come from
government, business or civil society who devote their lives to the cause of
Internet technical integrity and technical development and who work with or for
these organizations. yes, i see this as somewhat problematic and at the
time of WSIS argued for a 4th house - the Internet Technical Community.
but as history shows, this was rejected and thus we, pragmatically, need to
live with what we've got until the ground rules change. <br>
<br>
and I agree with Raul when he says: <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>In that case we have o let anybody to decide to which group
they feel closer. <br>
Maybe some people in the so called "technical community" feel closer
from the business sector, and others, like me feels part of civil society
organizations space. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
a. <br>
____________________________________________________________ <br>
You received this message as a subscriber on the list: <br>
<a href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>
<br>
To be removed from the list, send any message to: <br>
<a href="mailto:governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org">governance-unsubscribe@lists.cpsr.org</a>
<br>
<br>
For all list information and functions, see: <br>
<a href="http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance">http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance</a>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>____________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Gurumurthy K<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>IT for Change,Bangalore | <a
href="http://www.ITforChange.net">www.ITforChange.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities<o:p></o:p></pre></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>____________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Gurumurthy K<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>IT for Change,Bangalore | <a
href="http://www.ITforChange.net">www.ITforChange.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities<o:p></o:p></pre></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>____________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Gurumurthy K<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>IT for Change,Bangalore | <a
href="http://www.ITforChange.net">www.ITforChange.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities<o:p></o:p></pre></div>
</div>
</body>
</html>