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<font face="Book Antiqua">McTim,<br>
</font>
<pre wrap="">"Well, since ICANN is a CS body IMO, then certainly Keiren would be representing CS views". </pre>
I think this is the basic issue of disagreement. Not going into our
views of ICANN functioning (which we know are quite different), let us
address the nature of ICANN, which is that of a governance institution
and that too a global governance institution. ICANN approves gtlds,
allocates ip addresses which are critical global resources. It collects
charges on each domain name purchased (since there is no option to the
user in making this payment if the user wants a domain name, it is
actually in the nature of a tax), manages (or mismanages, depending on
your pov :-) ) the DNS etc. <br>
<br>
A governance institution by very definition cannot be part of CS. A
governance body governs, has authority, takes decisions that affects
others. CS is not in such a position of authority, it responds,
interfaces with governance institutions. (If Diplo Foundation is
running any primer on political science, it may be useful for some of
our friends to undergo :-) )<br>
<br>
It is possible that the functioning of a governance institution can be
very democratic and participatory (butoc) but any claims that ICANN can
be considered part of CS are as valid as accepting any democratic
government claim to be CS. Will you accept to endorse a IT minister or
bureaucrat of a country which is governed democratically as a CS
nominee to MAG? People who play certain roles in ICANN, say the CEO of
ICANN, or its 'Manager for public participation' (Kieren) cannot be
assumed to be able default to any CS positions and hence cannot be
considered by IGC for CS candidature. <br>
<font face="Book Antiqua"><br>
</font>
<pre wrap="">"It's just a part of CS that you don't agree
with. I have no doubt that Bertrand COULD represent both saying "the
French government position is "x", while the IGC position is "y". He
could also "in his personal capacity" give his own views if they
differ from either of the above."
</pre>
Mc Tim you are missing the point. The issue is not whether Bertrand
COULD give views X or Y. For CS to nominate Bertrand, it needs to be
reasonably sure that he will represent CS positions in any ms /mush
discussions. It is reasonable for us to assume that Bertrand will not
be able to default to CS positions as the GAC representative of French
Government, rather than the other way around. <br>
<br>
{Else extending your logic, Paul Twoomey or the IT secretary of Nigeria
can also 'give their personal opinions' (every human can give views in
personal capacity), can IGC nominate either to MAG from CS list??}<br>
<br>
While we may all desire to move towards a world where all of us
('governed') also play a role in governance and IGF is perhaps an
attempt in this direction, it is currently not reality. <br>
<br>
Guru<br>
<br>
<br>
McTim wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:f65fb55e0805252359x6a7415cbs4f7b6b232f3fe033@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 9:41 AM, Guru <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:guru@itforchange.net"><guru@itforchange.net></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">McTim,
Suppose Kieren McCarthy, employee ICANN and Bertrand de La Chapelle, GAC
member representing French Govt (who are both I think members of this
mailing list) asked endorsement from IGC for MAG membership, do you think
IGC should endorse them?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
I think any nomcom shouldn't a priori take a decision unauthorised by
the larger caucus.
The short answer is that the caucus COULD endorse them. SHOULD is a
matter to be decided based on the candidates statements about these
potential conflicts, as I assume that either the nomcom would ask, or
the candidates would recognise potential conflicts and volunteer their
views on such). SHOULD BE ABLE TO nominate is my view.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In my view, even though both have participated in the IGC list and have
taken on CS identities, their current role prevents them from being able to
represent CS. In any discussion within MAG (or any such ms group), it is
unreasonable to expect that they will not represent ICANN and the French
Govt respectively and these will be 'default' positions which will preclude
their being able to effectively represent CS positions.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Well, since ICANN is a CS body IMO, then certainly Keiren would be
representing CS views. It's just a part of CS that you don't agree
with. I have no doubt that Bertrand COULD represent both saying "the
French government position is "x", while the IGC position is "y". He
could also "in his personal capacity" give his own views if they
differ from either of the above.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">While it is true that many people don multiple hats etc, but one needs to
investigate the facts of the case and as in the above example, where a
specific hat is clearly the primary one, imo that will help in deciding the
stakeholder group membership. On the other hand, a part time consulting
relationship (which many IGC members do have, such as Avri with IGF
secretariat) may be a very different situation, needing to be assessed
differently.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Agreed, several people wear several hats. Excluding a group of people
wearing "blue hats" because one doesn't like "blue" does injustice to
the people on this list who prefer the color blue.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Your answer will help me better understand your argument.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
I hope that helps.
Perhaps you can tell us if the nomcom read rules # 4 and 5 before
making your decision?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
____________
Gurumurthy K
IT for Change,Bangalore | <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ITforChange.net">www.ITforChange.net</a>
Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities</pre>
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