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<title>Re: [governance] Re: IG questions that are not ICANN [was: Irony]</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>What Bill said – if we are going to
do anything in the field of Internet governance, we have to deal with less than
perfect organizations such as UN, governments, corporations, ITU, ICANN, IGP,
and, dare I say it, the civil society caucus.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If we can find a way to participate, we
should. We should at least follow Bill’s suggestion that we ask for CS
participation on the Committee of Experts. We could submit a raft of names for
consideration asking that at least one be appointed (all submitted candidates
should be people who we know would report back and liaise with CS)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Ian Peter<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>Ian Peter and Associates Pty Ltd<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> William Drake
[mailto:drake@hei.unige.ch] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 10 December 2007 19:54<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Governance<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [governance] Re: IG
questions that are not ICANN [was: Irony]</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=4 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Good morning, sunshine,<br>
<br>
On 12/10/07 3:14 AM, "Milton L Mueller" <mueller@syr.edu>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<font color=green><span style='color:green'>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>> From: William Drake [<a href="mailto:drake@hei.unige.ch%5d">mailto:drake@hei.unige.ch]</a><br>
>> See above. Re: flawed yes, but fatally---this obviously depends
on the<br>
>> issue, the industry players involved, their degree of consensus and<br>
>> support<br>
>> for the approach taken and their ability to implement it, which with<br>
>> respect<br>
>> to security I wouldn't make a sweeping statement about before actually<br>
>> investigating. When law enforcement, national security, and
intelligence<br>
>> agencies work with major telcos, manufacturers, applications providers
etc<br>
>> it seems odd to just assume this cannot matter at all. <br>
</span></font><font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>> <br>
> That kind of work is going on in many places, and the ITU is not the most <br>
> significant place for it. Indeed, the ITU is rather marginalized these
days. <br>
</span></font><br>
This authoritative pronouncement is based on what, precisely? You've
mapped the topology of all the work being done on all the security issues in
all the relevant institutions, examined the ITU work program in relation to
this, and determined that there is no interface and cross-pollination between
these efforts, and that the routine practice of bringing work from, e.g. regional
and tech-specific forums into ITU for multilateral adoption at the global level
is of no significance to anything, and hence all the thousands of people
involved from every government, major network operator, manufacturer, etc that
are constantly over here just come to go shopping? Or are you really
saying that you don't follow these things and therefore they don't matter?<br>
<br>
I have, as you know, written quite a bit over the years about the historical
evolution and contemporary decline of the telecom regime, so I not only get the
marginalization argument, but have made it. However, it's worth noting
that this marginalization is relative; for example, while the telecom
regulation treaty directly shapes a declining share of activity, carriers from
the US alone (just one of 191 member states) still settle over $7 billion a
year under its terms and are fairly concerned about current proposals for
change. But that doesn't matter I guess, since it's not about domain
names. The extent of marginalization is also highly variable: for
spectrum management it's non-existent, for standards, including
security-related aspects, it depends on a host of factors per previous. In some
cases the main action is elsewhere, in some it's not.<br>
<br>
<font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>> And if civil society critics succeeded,
after the kind of HUGE effort that it <br>
> would take, in getting an influential seat at some ITU table then the
chances <br>
> are great that certain parties would forum-shift to somewhere else. <br>
</span></font><br>
I have absolutely no illusions that CS would make a HUGE effort and wasn't
proposing this. But since the Argentine-Swiss proposals to open the door
to CS are the focus of active debate right now, it'd be nice if CS wasn't
entirely silent, which just makes it easier for the more retrograde governments
to say why bother, they don't care anyway. At a post-WSIS ITU meeting a
couple years ago, I presented a quickly assembled statement that was signed by
two dozen caucus people criticizing the CS lock out and saying this is one of
the reasons CS doesn't want ITU near IG, and it did get their attention.
But now that friendly governments are actually trying to do something
about the matter, we're not there to offer any support. Wille and I made
presentations on CS inclusion at a meeting this year that were perceived I
think as sort of solo views, not supported by any broader constituency demand.
It'd have been nice if we'd had a sign on or something, which is not all
that hard to do, except when the gestalt is, who cares, it's not ICANN.<br>
<br>
<font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>> No one said the issues of lawful
intercept and cybersecurity "don't matter." <br>
> Indeed, if you've been paying attention to IGP's work at all you should
know <br>
> that we've been focusing on that quite a bit, with some relatively good <br>
> results in the DNSSEC sphere. <br>
</span></font><br>
Like all good citizens, I am a dutiful student and hang on IGP's every word.
Brendan's DNSSEC stuff is interesting and important, but it's a piece of
a much larger puzzle, which is what we're talking about.<br>
<br>
<font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>> But this kind of politics is
trench warfare and it makes little sense for CS <br>
> groups to enter into a battle on the terms and conditions set by industry
and <br>
> govts, which is precisely what you are inviting us to do. <br>
</span></font><br>
Then why did we/you participate in WSIS? Why, for that matter, do you
participate in ICANN if this is a disqualifier? That's the way the world
is, so why not pack up our tents and go home?<br>
<br>
<font color=green><span style='color:green'>>> processes are nonetheless
consequential, no? Re: top down, ok if by this<br>
>> you mean CS is excluded and a number of segments of relevant Internet<br>
>> industries opt not to get involved. But for those industry
groupings that<br>
>> opt to be involved, it is as bottom up as any other standards process.<br>
</span></font><font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>> <br>
> Sure. But think of resource allocation. Scarce time, labor money. I don't
see <br>
> the case for CS involvement in ITU processes, or for fighting a process
battle <br>
> in that forum. <br>
> <br>
> You give me a specific issue worth fighting for, and show me that ITU is
the <br>
> best place to fight it, then I'll be there. But if you want me to knock my
<br>
> head against the wall of a 150 year old bureaucracy trying to gain some <br>
> generic recognition for something called "civil society" no
thanks. <br>
</span></font><br>
Ok, restrict your head banging to a nine year old bureaucracy instead.<br>
<br>
FYI, today begins a four day meeting of WP 2 of SG 17 and there's a ton of
people from irrelevant outfits like VeriSign over there. Here's the
piffle WP 2 is currently working on:<br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
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Security baseline for network operators </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Security architecture aspects of end users and
networks in telecommunications </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Framework for creation, storage, distribution
and enforcement of policies for network security </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
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13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Network security assessment/guidelines based on
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<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Framework for EAP-based authentication and key
management </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Guidelines for implementing system and network
security </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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notification of security related information and dissemination of updates </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
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13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Guidelines for telecommunication service providers
for addressing the risk of spyware and potentially unwanted software </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
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communication network </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>User control enhanced digital identity
interchange framework </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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interoperability </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
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identity management: Identity management lexicon </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Requirements for global interoperable identity
management </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
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<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
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mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>A guideline of technical and managerial
countermeasures for biometric data security </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
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data communication </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Correlative reacting system in mobile network </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Security architecture for message security in
mobile web services </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Guideline on secure password-based
authentication protocol with key exchange </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Authorization framework for home network </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Security requirements and framework in multicast
communication </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Privacy protection framework for networked RFID
services </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Security requirements for peer-to-peer
communications </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Security architecture for peer-to-peer network </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Secure end-to-end data communication techniques
using TTP services </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Requirement and Framework for USN </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Requirement on countering spam </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Technical framework for countering email spam </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Framework of countering IP multimedia spam </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Guideline on countering email spam </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Overview of countering spam for IP multimedia
applications </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Technical means for countering spam </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>Interactive countering spam gateway system </span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=4 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
13.5pt;font-family:Arial'>SMS filtering system based on users’ rules</span></font><o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</div>
</body>
</html>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1179 - Release Date: 09/12/2007 11:06<BR>
</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"> </FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.17/1179 - Release Date: 09/12/2007 11:06<BR>
</FONT> </P>