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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Re: [governance] Re: IG questions that are not ICANN [was: Irony]</TITLE>
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<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><B>From:</B> William Drake
[mailto:drake@hei.unige.ch] <BR></FONT></FONT><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN class=736284518-11122007><FONT
color=#0000ff size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>> </FONT></SPAN>I
have, as you know, written quite a bit over the years <SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>></FONT> </SPAN>about the historical evolution and contemporary
decline <SPAN class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>></FONT> </SPAN>of
the telecom regime, so I not only get the marginalization <SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>></FONT> </SPAN>argument, but have made it.<SPAN
class=736284518-11122007> <FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><SPAN class=736284518-11122007></SPAN><FONT
face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3><SPAN class=736284518-11122007>You are getting all defensive and prickly
again, which doesn't accomplish anything. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3><SPAN class=736284518-11122007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3><SPAN class=736284518-11122007>It seems to me that you are making a very
strong argument that Bill Drake believes in the importance of, and wants to get
more involved in, ITU discussions of security. If that is the case, great. Do
it! And if you can convince others to get involved, that's fine. My point is not
to tell others not to do anything they think should be done, and I apologize if
you took it that way. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3><SPAN class=736284518-11122007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3><SPAN class=736284518-11122007>My debate was about whether this
particular grouping of civil society has the resources and expertise to become
deeply involved as a collectivity. My impression was that this was an internet
governance group, focused on the IGF, not a general ICT policy or telecom policy
group. This collection of civil society actors has its strengths, but it is
barely able to maintain a coordinated presence in the IGF, and is really only
tangentially connected to the nitty-gritty policy work of ICANN (despite your
constant "if it's not ICANN who cares"? comments, I don't see any but a handful
of these people -- except for the employees -- at ICANN meetings or workgroups).
So if you are proposing to add ITU committees and processes to the group, I am
simply questioning whether it can be feasible. I do _not_ question whether you
personally can do it, and do not question that someone ought to be in
there.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3><SPAN class=736284518-11122007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>> </FONT></SPAN>I
have absolutely no illusions that CS would make a HUGE <SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>></FONT> </SPAN>effort and wasn't proposing this. But since
the Argentine-<FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007>> </SPAN>Swiss proposals to open the door to CS
are the focus of <SPAN class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>></FONT> </SPAN>active debate right now, it'd be nice if CS
wasn't entirely silent, <SPAN class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>> </FONT></SPAN>which just makes it easier for the more
retrograde governments <SPAN class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>></FONT> </SPAN>to
say why bother, they don't care anyway. At a post-<FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> > </FONT></SPAN>It'd have been nice if we'd had a sign on
or something, <SPAN class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>></FONT> </SPAN>which is not all that hard to do, <SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=3>OK, so here's where your
argument gets interesting, and complicated. And it illustrates why I am worried
about capacity constraints. Yes, in some sense CS should respond to
proposals to open the door to CS. The question is, who goes in that door other
than you and perhaps Willie? And I don't just mean signing a statement, which
takes a few minutes, I mean actually participating in these standards
committees, which takes years? And what other processes do you absent yourselves
from by virtue of participating in ITU committees? This group? GigaNet? Your
wife? D</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT
face=Arial><SPAN class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=3>o we
have the ability to seriously contribute? What happens when they open the
door and no one enters? It's irresponsible not to ask those
questions.</FONT> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007>Would it be a great victory for democracy for one guy
from this group to be let into these committees? What would you do? What
positions would you advocate? What is keeping you out now? Why do you need this
group to validate your participation? Does this group have any legitimate
ability to validate your participation? Is ITU really waiting for our word?
These are honest questions, not rhetorical ones. Inquiring minds want to
know.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN><FONT
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff size=2></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT><BR></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>> </FONT></SPAN>FYI,
today begins a four day meeting of WP 2 of SG 17 and <SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2>></FONT> </SPAN>there's a ton of people from irrelevant outfits
like VeriSign <FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=736284518-11122007>> </SPAN></FONT></FONT>over there.
Here's the piffle WP 2 is currently working on:<SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT size=3>What follows is
a long detailed list of highly technical - policy -economic issues. Which is
precisely my point. Who in this group is ready to go toe to toe with full-time,
paid, telephone company </FONT> <FONT size=3>engineers and government
ministry reps on "network security assessment/guidelines based on ITU-T
recommendation X.805? Etc.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT size=3>If you can go
to this meeting, go. I have no doubt that a single dedicated individual can have
an impact if they get access, know the issues, focus their efforts, and devote
about 20 hours a week to following the issue. I would wonder about who pays for
the time and expenses of that person. That's what some of us have done in the
ICANN/IGF complex of institutions, and even that is beginning to strain our
capacity. Now you're multiplying the remit by about ten-fold, in an
environment that is not clearly the most direct and strategic.
</FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007><FONT color=#0000ff size=2><FONT size=3>Just pay
attention to maximizing the effective use of our resources (to the extent that
there is any "our" here anyway). That's all I am saying. It's easy
for folks on this list to cheerlead you on, but when you go into those
committees and have real work to do, take a look around you and see which
of them is there. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 18px"><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3><SPAN
class=736284518-11122007></SPAN></FONT> </DIV></SPAN>
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