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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I agree with Ray on this, but I would like
to know *<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>why</span></b>* people aren’t
involving themselves in the open fora specifically constructed to gather the
sort of input that they claiming is lacking.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There is a surprising lack of candour about
the realities of the situation considering the passion that exists out there.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Is it because:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>People
don’t know the fora exist?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Feel
the fora are not effective?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Feel
the fora are controlled?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Because
there is no clear thread from input to outcome?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Or
is it because people simply don’t like the fact that their views do
not make it through the process?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Because
to interact is simply too time-consuming?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Because
the methods of interaction are intimidating or difficult?<o:p></o:p></span></font></li>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>On the one side we have people wishing to
design entirely new methods without involving themselves in the ones that already
exist. The Internet, it seems, continues to give people a taste for revolution.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>On the other side, those working within
the existing structures seem content to dismiss those that sit outside, and so may
be missing out on valuable insight and input. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The disconnect is there and, as ever, manifests
itself in anger and aggression – as this mailing list makes clear all too
often.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I for one am interested in finding
solutions – or, at least, having civil conversations about why people
aren’t happy, rather than only reading and responding to expressions of unhappiness.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kieren<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Ray Plzak
[mailto:plzak@arin.net] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, October 05, 2007
11:06 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">governance@lists.cpsr.org</st1:PersonName>;
Hakikur Rahman; Milton L Mueller; Avri Doria<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [governance] For you
as an Internet user, what is a "Critical Internet resource"?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>They why don't those
who claim that the current policy fora are either non effective or non
inclusive participate in them and encourage others to do so? How many of these
persons are subscribed to the open policy discussion lists? Why don't they
advocate from a capacity building perspective work toward enlarging the CS
participation in the existing governance structures?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#1f497d" face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'>Ray<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"></a><font size=2 color="#1f497d"
face=Calibri><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Hakikur Rahman
[mailto:email@hakik.org] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, October 04, 2007
9:24 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">governance@lists.cpsr.org</st1:PersonName>;
Milton L Mueller; <st1:PersonName w:st="on">governance@lists.cpsr.org</st1:PersonName>;
Avri Doria<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [governance] For you
as an Internet user, what is a "Critical Internet resource"?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>I will support <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Milton</st1:place></st1:City>'s arguments, and
we should be active in policies and governance issues. In many countries,
though understanding (I would not say that it is definition) about benefits of
the Internet has made it critical, but my understanding is that due to lack of
policies (in major aspects) and governance (never taken of), Internet couldn't
reach the majority of the community.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
Hakik<br>
<br>
At 01:23 AM 10/4/2007, Milton L Mueller wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Avri:<br>
I would answer your question as follows:<br>
<br>
We can either spend our time in <st1:place w:st="on">Rio</st1:place> debating
the _<i><span style='font-style:italic'>definition</span></i>_ of CIR, or we
can spend that time debating and discussing _<i><span style='font-style:italic'>the
policies</span></i>_ and the _governance arrangements_ applied to CIR. We
cannot do both. There is not time to do both, and if we don’t agree on
what CIR is, we cannot have a productive discussion on policies and governance
arrangements. <br>
<br>
I have no doubt about which type of conversation would be more interesting and
productive. We should be discussing the policies and gov arrangements. There
are many fascinating issues there, and they are exactly the kind of issues the
Forum is supposed to be taking up. The only reason to shift the discussion to
definitions is to divert attention from a discussion of those policies and
institutions currently involved in CIR.<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Avri Doria [<a
href="mailto:avri@psg.com">mailto:avri@psg.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 02, 2007
12:23 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Internet Governance Caucus<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [governance] For you
as an Internet user, what is a "Critical Internet resource"?<br>
</span></font> <br>
hi,<br>
<br>
i do not understand why trying to define cIr is not a fine question itself and
needs to defined as another question. unless there is only one
answer and not other answer is allowed. but why would that be?<br>
<br>
some people think there is a narrow definition for cIr and some people think
there is a broad definition of cIr (i think we have ben here before). is
only the narrow definition valid?<br>
<br>
if so, i do not understand it.<br>
<br>
and if they aren't supposed to be critical to users, then who are they supposed
to be critical too?<br>
<br>
a.<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
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