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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>>Should I consider myself not cautious or clever enough :-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>No, no, not at all, Bertrand. Everyone knows how cautious, clever, erudite
etc etc you are. And I have complimented you on these qualities on numerous
occasions. Only the first two sentences of my email were intended for you where
I disagreed with your idea. Immediately afterwards – starting,
‘when we speak MS-ism’, I entered into my thoughts on the general
problems with MS-ism and how it often works, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Of course you have clearly and honestly shared an idea, and people
should discuss and have views on it. I for one strongly registered my views.
Maybe a bit too strongly, but there was an existing context to my response in
the exchanges on this list in the last few days, and I request you to see my
email in that context, and not merely as a response to your floating of an
idea. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>>I'm afraid your reply is not of the same tune as my modest
contribution and the tonality is a bit harsh.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>I sincerely apologize if I gave such an impression. As ever, my
intention was only to enter, what I consider is, a constructive engagement with
your ideas. (note that I too gave adequate explanations etc). However, on the
tonality issue, I request you to see it in the light that this wasn’t an
one-off idea/ exchange between you and me, but situated, as I said, in the
context of some recent event and subsequent discussions. Immediately on giving
a quick reaction to the idea mooted by you, my reply got immersed in this
context and situation, and was addressing the whole context of the discussions
on the list and not just your email. You can see these other emails have
various kinds of tones, and I am really sorry but one has to pick up different
threads in a single email when responding to emails on an elist that have some
level of connections. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>You say – ‘And remember I indicated with appropriate rules
of transparency’. What happened around the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Geneva</st1:City></st1:place> meeting – I mean the email
exchanges - has a central importance to such rules, and perception of moral/
legal grounds of such rules. I cannot see your financing idea as separated from
this real world context. Unfortunately, a good amount of the discussion on this
list of this event has not given me a good feel about there being an adequate
context and understanding, and/or an ideological environment, for evolving and
adherence to such principles. Remember that efforts to evoke such transparency
were called muck-racking, tabloid-level fluff etc. In absence of such an
understanding and commitment to the need and meaning of such transparency, my
fears of private funds are obviously justified. And I will like to hear
your views on this, in the stated context.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>>but as I suppose you are speaking in a personal capacity and not as
coordinator, maybe we should let people discuss it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Where is the question, and I am very sure people will discuss it
despite me. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.25in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>>Anyway, I'd be happy to learn what your own
preference would be, what concrete solution you favor : just governments ? or
just the UN ? or just some >international organizations ? The key question
is, again : what is the appropriate financing structure for the IGF in order to
guarantee regularity of resources and >independence from lobbies and
pressure groups ? Can we address this issue calmly, with the attention it
deserves ? <br>
>In any case, using words like "</span></font><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>what
recently happened at IGF would be scandalous. In some countries it will veer
towards criminal" </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>was not necessary to
make your point.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Ok, I think it is easier to discuss with/
explain to you what I mean, and the basis of my strong views on this issue,
since you are a public official. How would you respond to a hypothetical
situation like, say Carrefour company, which is looking to enter the retailing
sector in <st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region>, proposes
that it funds part of French diplomatic operations in <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region>. Just for
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">France</st1:place></st1:country-region>’s
image, patriotism etc’s sake, nothing sinister. And then they do begin
funding part costs of the ambassador, embassy etc…. And then one fine day
you unearth a letter (through muck-raking efforts, of course) where Carrefour
(or a group of diplomatic mission funding companies) have indicated that they
may withdraw support if they see France staying lax (all a hypothetical
situation, of course) at WTO instead of arguing more aggressively to promote
access of global retailing services companies to global markets, especially in
developing countries. Once gain for no narrow interest of course, just for the
sake of promoting free trade in a free world etc …….Or worse still,
as possession of financial strings do have a way to move down such a path,
writing to the Foreign minister of France, again with the same threat, if
she/he doesn’t put the specific issues of Indian government clearing
Carrefour’s investment proposal on the table when India is pushing its
case with France for opening up its nuclear fuel supplies….. How does all
this sound…. Horrendous ? Criminal? Am I then right in making the
criminal connection, which as I said, isnt in regard to your email, but the
general context of discussion on this list with regard to the necessary
safeguards of ‘transparency’ that you propose. We cant discuss ideas
and principles in isolation from existing discussions, views and values in the
group on what does transparency etc means in context of private funding. For me
this connection is obvious. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I keep wondering why we use different
standards for public activity, accountabilities etc for national and global
level… Even - and this is ironical –those among us who are most
enthusiastic about a globalised (and to some extent a de-nationalised)
world… On this, I expect to hear the argument (general comment, again not
aimed at you Bertrand), that well, the global governance systems will be
different and evolve their own bases, principles etc… to this, my humble
submission (you cant say, that I am not learning </span></font><font size=2
color=black face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;
color:black'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>) - such
differences and evolution can only be in progressive ways – MS-ism,
more openness, better and more equal representation of all sections and people
, based more on shared human values etc etc, not in regressive ways –
in-transparency of funding, pay for governance services – more you pay
the better, privatized governance, stake-based rather than rights based etc
etc… <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Engaging specifically with your proposal,
if you call the idea ‘diversified financing’ I will support it. In
any case all your arguments and those of others in support of your idea come
from the logic of diversifying funding or, as you say in a latter email,
broadly sourced funding. So why not name the idea also as such.
Multistakeholder funding means stakes based funding, and that’s
unacceptable. Everyone has equal stakes in public bodies – that’s
why they are public, and stakes cant be linked to funds. This idea in its
present name, in my view, seems to represent a direct prescription of
privatized governance. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks, and best regards<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Parminder </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=gray face="Arial Narrow"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial Narrow";color:gray'>Parminder Jeet
Singh</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Bertrand de La Chapelle</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:bdelachapelle@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 11, 2007 10:15
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Parminder<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">governance@lists.cpsr.org</st1:PersonName>;
Norbert Bollow<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [governance] IGF
financing</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Wow, interesting. <br>
<br>
Should I consider myself not cautious or clever enough :-) for daring to utter
an idea like : "a multi-stakeholder forum could/should be financed in a
multi-stakeholder way ?" And remember I indicated with appropriate rules
of transparency. <br>
<br>
I'm afraid your reply is not of the same tune as my modest contribution and the
tonality is a bit harsh, as if I were suggesting something horrendous. I
respect your position, as usual, but as I suppose you are speaking in a
personal capacity and not as coordinator, maybe we should let people discuss
it. That's the purpose of this list, isn't it ? <br>
<br>
I am not sure this question can simply be brushed aside by your answer. And I'm
not sure we understand the same thing when we speak of multi-stakeholder
financing. In particular, you did not mention the distinction I was making
between "automatic resources" and "ad hoc resources". Do
you think that a foundation providing transparent financing to a Dynamic
Coalition would be bad ? <br>
<br>
Anyway, I'd be happy to learn what your own preference would be, what concrete
solution you favor : just governments ? or just the UN ? or just some
international organizations ? The key question is, again : what is the
appropriate financing structure for the IGF in order to guarantee regularity of
resources and independence from lobbies and pressure groups ? Can we address
this issue calmly, with the attention it deserves ? <br>
<br>
In any case, using words like "</span></font><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>what
recently happened at IGF would be scandalous. In some countries it will veer
towards criminal" </span></font><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>was not necessary to
make your point. Especially in a response to that post. Unless you imply -
without saying - that those words are applicable to what I mentionned or you
hope I might be encouraged to shut up by fear of being accused of the above. In
such a case, I sincerely hope we can avoid this on this list. There are enough
important issues that need to be discussed in a mature manner, and I am merely,
as usual, trying to provide some constructive input. <br>
<br>
Best as ever<br>
<br>
Bertrand <br>
<br>
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=gmailquote><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On 6/11/07, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Parminder</span></b>
<<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net </a>>
wrote:</span></font></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div link=blue vlink=blue>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>No Bertrand, Multistakeholder financing is a very bad idea.
And, an even worse principle. When we speak MS, I am often afraid this idea is
lurking somewhere. But most people are cautious/ clever enough not to mention
it expressly. In fact, that's the big difference between how things,
less-than-ideally, may actually be, and when we openly start articulating such
things as acceptable principles. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>When Milton said, it is simple – those who fund IGF
will push their agenda, and so those others who want their agenda pushed should
step up their contribution – I responded that however practical it be,
this looks like a principle which will take us to not good outcomes at all
– for CS and for public interest. For instance, I want my agenda pushed,
what should I do. I don't have money to contribute. And I cant go to my
government (per <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Milton</st1:place></st1:City>'s
advise) because my government doesn't share my agenda. And he called it moral
posturing, I hope you don't come back in the same vein. For me and many in
public interest advocacy it is an important principle, and I cant let such
formulations pass by.. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>It if fine for private parties to finance public functions
and bodies where there is a plurality – like a foundation funding a
university program or an NGO. It is also fine to extend part financing, under
certain conditions, to core public bodies which are monopolistic (states, UN
bodies etc) in their constituency and mandate, but then the proportion of
private funding needs to be adequately low for any one interest group (as well
as in total proportion to public funds) , and it should be governed with strict
rules of propriety etc. Under such rules what recently happened at IGF would be
scandalous. In some countries it will veer towards criminal. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Many in the CS (outside the typical IG/IS groups) who are
sometimes suspicious of the term multistakeholder feel so because they known
such bodies can easily show tendencies to move towards 'privatised governance'.
We may be realizing their worst fears. </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Parminder </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=gray face="Arial Narrow"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial Narrow";color:gray'>________________________________________________</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=gray face="Arial Narrow"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial Narrow";color:gray'>Parminder Jeet Singh</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><font size=2 color=gray face="Arial Narrow"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial Narrow";color:gray'>IT for Change, <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Bangalore</st1:place></st1:City></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><em><i><font size=2 color=gray face="Arial Narrow"><span style='font-size:
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<p><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Bertrand
de La Chapelle</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<a
href="mailto:bdelachapelle@gmail.com" target="_blank">bdelachapelle@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 11, 2007 7:37
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:governance@lists.cpsr.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.cpsr.org</a>;
Norbert Bollow<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [governance] IGF
financing</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dear all,<br>
<br>
Following the various post, including Norbert's one below, I'd like to insert
two general comments in the discussion :<br>
<br>
First, as the IGF is an innovative experiment in multi-stakeholder governance,
it would make sense that its funding be multi-stakeholder as well, wouldn't it
? Proportions can be discussed, given the variable contributory capacities, but
the principle would make sense, IMHO. <br>
<br>
Second, a combination of "automatic resources" for regular
activities, including the annual event and some secretariat functions, and
"had hoc resources" could also be envisaged, provided the later are
transparent. In particular, there is no reason to prevent some actors from
getting good visibility when they support some useful activity, such as funding
for participation of developing countries participants or supporting the
activities of a dynamic coalition. <br>
<br>
Best<br>
<br>
Bertrand<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>On
6/11/07, <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Norbert Bollow</span></b> <<a
href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch" target="_blank">nb@bollow.ch</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Milton Mueller</span></font></st1:PersonName>
<<a href="mailto:mueller@syr.edu" target="_blank">mueller@syr.edu</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> a) vested interests can be expected to use financial support as leverage<br>
> over the activities of the IGF<br>
><br>
> b) we need to find a way to institutionalize support for IGF that <br>
> minimizes this problem (we will never eliminate it)<br>
<br>
Would it be an improvement if the IGF process was funded out of<br>
the U.N. budget?<br>
<br>
If yes, what would be the process for trying to achieve that?<br>
<br>
What would be the chances of success for this?<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
Norbert.<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Norbert Bollow <<a href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch" target="_blank">nb@bollow.ch</a>> <a
href="http://Norbert.ch" target="_blank"> http://Norbert.ch </a><br>
President of the Swiss Internet User Group SIUG <a
href="http://SIUG.ch" target="_blank">http://SIUG.ch</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
-- <br>
____________________<br>
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Bertrand de La Chapelle</st1:PersonName><br>
<br>
Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32<br>
<br>
"Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de
Saint Exupéry<br>
("there is no better mission for humans than uniting humans") <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<br>
-- <br>
____________________<br>
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Bertrand de La Chapelle</st1:PersonName><br>
<br>
Tel : +33 (0)6 11 88 33 32<br>
<br>
"Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes" Antoine de
Saint Exupéry <br>
("there is no better mission for humans than uniting humans") <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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