[governance] Taiwanese nationals and the IGF

Mon Sep 9 07:57:36 EDT 2019

I don't think the issue here is travel: Taiwanese passport is good
enough to travel almost everywhere, it's just not accepted for IGF
registration.

Actually I find it curious that a passport is required at all for IGF.
After all quite a few people could travel to Berlin without one: not
only all Germans but everybody in the Schengen zone as well.

Although the guidelines only talk about "picture ID", even if the
account creation form wants passport... has anybody tried to use
another type of ID?

(Yeah, getting rid of nation states would solve this problem. I fear
we won't get it done in time for this year's IGF though.)

Tapani

On Sep 07 14:35, farzaneh badii (governance at lists.riseup.net) wrote:

> E-citizenship doesnt give you a passport to travel. The only solution is to
> get rid of the concept of nation states and treat people as people and not
> clans.
> 
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2019 at 2:23 PM Bill Woodcock <woody at pch.net> wrote:
> 
> > Estonian E-citizenships, perhaps?
> >
> > Doesn’t solve the problem, but it’s a work-around.
> >
> >
> >                 -Bill
> >
> >
> > On Sep 6, 2019, at 01:52, Michael J. Oghia (via governance Mailing List) <
> > governance at lists.riseup.net> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ian,
> >
> > Thanks so much for this thoughtful response, and indeed, I sent it in
> > frustration. I realise, however, that this issue goes way beyond the IGF.
> > Moreover, since a member of the Chinese government is a member of the MAG,
> > I seriously doubt the MAG would even be open to discussing it.
> >
> > The point you raise about stateless individuals is an interesting one,
> > though, as I don't know what the protocol is for that. Taiwan nationals
> > clearly aren't stateless, though, so those are two separate points
> > (regardless, I still recommend the IGF develop a procedure for including
> > stateless individuals/groups).
> >
> > It seems this is an injustice that will have to pursue, and she can attend
> > remotely if interested.
> >
> > Best,
> > -Michael
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 6, 2019 at 10:46 AM ian.peter at ianpeter.com <
> > ian.peter at ianpeter.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I wish there was an easy answer to this Michael.
> >>
> >> But as I understand it, we are dealing with a whole-of-UN problem, not
> >> just an IGF one. For whatever historic reasons, and they are to do with
> >> recognition of the Peoples Republic of China, Taiwan is not  recognised by
> >> the UN as a nation state - although they would like to be and have a few
> >> allies pushing their cause.
> >>
> >> I believe it goes back to 1971. China's attitude has been "The *United
> >> Nations* is an international organization composed of sovereign states.
> >> *Taiwan* as a province of China is completely *not* qualified and *has
> >> no* right to participate in it. Due to the well-known reasons, the
> >> *Taiwan* authorities illegally usurped China's *UN* seat for as long as
> >> 22 years" (http://ae.china-embassy.org/eng/zt/twwt/t150866.htm)
> >>
> >> But having said that - others might be able to provide more background -
> >> since IGF is not a meeting of nation states, but also includes civil
> >> society and other stakeholders, one would think there might  be a way
> >> around it. Yes, to register one needs a passport - maybe an ally of Taiwan
> >> would be prepared to issue passports or acceptab;e documents for Taiwanese
> >> citizens?
> >>
> >> I don't know how we could get around this, just brainstorming. In an
> >> ideal IGF, stateless people would have a voice and be able to attend,
> >> subject of course to standard security clearances. Maybe MAG could explore
> >> this?
> >>
> >>
> >> Ian Peter
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------ Original Message ------
> >> From: "Michael J. Oghia" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
> >> To: "IGC" <governance at lists.riseup.net>
> >> Sent: 6/09/2019 5:49:07 PM
> >> Subject: [governance] Taiwanese nationals and the IGF
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> I'd like to raise a serious concern I have regarding the IGF. A contact
> >> of mine in Taiwan is having trouble registering for the IGF. She solely has
> >> a Taiwanese passport, but the IGF, as a UN event, can only register
> >> individuals who have a passport from a UN member state (of which Taiwan is
> >> not a member). I checked with the IGF Secretariat, and unfortunately,
> >> there's not much they can do about it.
> >>
> >> I know that the politics surrounding China and Taiwan are contentious,
> >> however, this essentially means that she (and anyone else) from Taiwan –
> >> more than 23.5 million people – are essentially barred from attending the
> >> IGF if they don't have another passport.
> >>
> >> I find this *deeply problematic* and in violation of the fundamental
> >> principles of the multi-stakeholder model, namely the fact that it's meant
> >> to be inclusive and open to all.
> >>
> >> Has anyone encountered this problem in the past, either in the IG sector
> >> or another development sector? Does anyone have ideas for how it can be
> >> resolved? I'm well aware this is not the first instance of a Taiwanese
> >> national being excluded from participation in a global event, so perhaps
> >> this is a moot point and no one can help. Still, it still strikes me as
> >> incredibly unjust and unfair that regional politics would prevent
> >> individuals from attending the IGF.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> -Michael
> >> __________________
> >>
> >> Michael J. Oghia | Advocacy & Engagement Manager
> >> Global Forum for Media Development (GFMD <https://gfmd.info>)
> >> Belgrade, Serbia | Twitter <https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia> | LinkedIn
> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia>
> >>
> >> ---
> > To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net
> > <igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>>
> > List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
> >
> > ---
> > To unsubscribe: <mailto:igc-unsubscribe at lists.riseup.net>
> > List help: <https://riseup.net/lists>
> >
> -- 
> Farzaneh