[governance] FW: [IP] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secrAnet files reveal | World news | guardian.co.uk

[Kerry Brown]

I’m still not sure if you agree or disagree with my contention that in a modern democracy we have a chance to change this type of behaviour by those in power. I understand that historically things were different. I understand that some people don’t think that we have a chance to change this. I understand that many people have written or spoken about this. What I don’t understand so far is if you agree or disagree that in a modern democracy this can be changed. I’m not saying it would be easy or even that the odds are good. All I’m saying is the chance exists and I for one am working to making it happen. I don’t believe that defeatism is useful in reality or as an argument against working for change.

Kerry Brown

From: Riaz K Tayob [mailto:riaz.tayob at gmail.com]
Sent: June-08-13 8:06 AM
To: Kerry Brown
Cc: governance at lists.igcaucus.org
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: [IP] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secrAnet files reveal | World news | guardian.co.uk

I believe in the reality of choice.

To translate, from one Third World perspective, pithily:

1. Imperialism (abroad) breeds tyranny at home - Madison saw it. Foreign entanglements were a real problem because of the kind of people it strengthened in power.

2. Europe later America has had the tools for the emancipation of humanity. They have not been up to the task. Hence the challenge by some third worldists on the monopoly of definition and the rights to determine the terms of the terms of the debate (much like Haitian's took liberte, egalite, fraternity and gave the vote to all irrespective of property ownership).

3. As Pouzin pointed out, this is old hat, but gets coverage now. Groundless (as meta-narrative - like centre/periphery, third worldism) "evidence" cannot rebut the presumption in favour of advanced countries who live under a dualistic system - increasingly democratic but also paranoic and hence authoritarian-like.

4. In historical time, Madison points out this has been constitutive of democracy itself, much like the early US settlers who wanted to be free men, including free to keep slaves.

Riaz

On 2013/06/08 05:43 PM, Kerry Brown wrote:
I’m not sure of your point. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with my contention that in a modern democracy we have a chance to change this type of behaviour by those in power?

Kerry Brown


From: governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org> [mailto:governance-request at lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Riaz K Tayob
Sent: June-08-13 7:19 AM
To: governance at lists.igcaucus.org<mailto:governance at lists.igcaucus.org>
Subject: Re: [governance] FW: [IP] NSA has direct access to tech giants' systems for user data, secrAnet files reveal | World news | guardian.co.uk

In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence against foreign danger have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people.

  *   Speech, Constitutional Convention<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Convention> (1787-06-29<http://en.wikiquote.org/w/index.php?title=1787-06-29&action=edit&redlink=1>), from Max Farrand's Records of the Federal Convention of 1787, vol. I [1]<http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llfr&fileName=001/llfr001.db&recNum=494&itemLink=D?hlaw:5:./temp/%7Eammem_kmli::%230010495&linkText=1> (1911), p. 465
On 2013/06/08 04:45 PM, Kerry Brown wrote:

Here is a Canadian perspective on this. How many other governments are doing this?



http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/6869/125/



We are living in 1984. This is not just a privacy issue. It is a fundamental change in our western democratic values. The only way we can change this is by keeping this at the forefront in the media. It must be a top issue in all elections. That is the good thing about democracies. Change is possible. It may take a long time, but it is possible.



Kerry Brown




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