From jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr Sun Nov 30 12:40:48 2008 From: jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr (jlfullsack) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:40:48 +0100 Subject: [governance] International Telecommunication Union criticised for its role in internet snooping References: Message-ID: <39F0FF2BABD9423E8D831550C8ED9973@PCbureau> Dear Rui Sorry for answering your mail so lately. If you'd be a little more complete you'd reported my comments on this paramount issue : ITU as the WSIS process coordinator is closed for CS (Who is speaking of "multi-stakeholderism" here ?) ! You can listen to them on the meeting records that are displayed on the EuroDig website. Because during this session, I also made a proposal for ITU to be reformed and asked Members of the European Parliament to put this issue on the future agendas (Administrative Council, Plenipotentiary Conference in 2010, ...) of the ITU, whose members are i.a. the EU and all European countries. Moreover, I proposed Bill Drake to collaborate with him (and others if there are) for drafting some guidelines in that sense and submit/discuss them with the European representatives at ITU meetings before they attend them. All the best Jean-Louis Fullsack ----- Original Message ----- From: Rui Correia To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:43 PM Subject: [governance] International Telecommunication Union criticised for its role in internet snooping 27.10.2008 13:35 « Previous | Next » International Telecommunication Union criticised for its role in internet snooping At EuroDIG, the first European Dialogue on Internet Governance, the scientists and experts of the Council of Europe have sharply criticised the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) for acting behind closed doors in its initiatives towards cybersecurity standardization. Bertrand de la Chapelle, godfather of the first EuroDIG on behalf of the French government, said EuroDIG should tell the ITU to allow all interest groups to participate in discussing new technology standards. The recent meeting in Strasbourg emphasized the idea of cooperation between governments, the industry and users as one of the central points to be presented at the UN Internet Governance Forum in Hyderabad. Just recently, the ITU's work on standards for back-tracing IP addresses caused something of a furore. Yet, said Bill Drake, a scientist at the Center for International Governance at the Graduate School in Geneva, this work was only a tiny part of the work being done in the sensitive area of IT security. He warned that China, Russia and the USA could become the new axis of evil, pushing forward the integration of new ways of snooping on the internet. There was in his view an ambitious agenda extending beyond technical questions all the way up to legal regulations to counter cybercrime. If you had access to the documents, Drake said, you could see everything that was going on, but the ITU was not an open organisation. Drake's criticism was echoed by other representatives of non-governmental organisations, complaining that draft standards in domains that were of great significance for all users, such as identity management, were not being made available to the public or to interested circles. Drake warned that ITU member countries and its member firms might thus be setting the agenda for the ways and means in which the internet could be used in future. When he mentioned possible problems with the work of the ITU to non-governmental organisations, he said, they dismissed the ITU as a powerless "dinosaur". But he recommended by contrast that European governments and organizations should make a clear demand for more transparency from the ITU. If Europe did not do this, he stressed, neither the USA, Russia, nor China could be expected to do so. Thomas Schneider of the Swiss Office for Communications pointed out that, during the last general meeting of the ITU, the so called Plenipotentiary Conference of the Member Countries, a series of European countries had insisted, jointly with Switzerland, on the ITU experimentally allowing public access to the technology documents. The ITU had now carried out a series of consultations, he said, but each time only a handful of experts had spoken up. If the Europeans did not get involved in this process, it was to some extent their problem. Alexander Seger, head of the Council of Europe's Division of Economic Crime, expressed further criticism of the ITU. Up to a year ago, he said, the experts of the Council of Europe had worked together quite well with the ITU as the organisation commissioned with following up on the World Summit on the Information Society. But, ever since the ITU had published its cybersecurity agenda, there had been enormous problems with such cooperation. Seger demanded that the ITU return to its role as an organizer of the process. The Council of Europe is also concentrating heavily on the topic of security as a custodian of the Cybercrime Convention. See also: a.. EU to take action against "cyberbullying" and "cybergrooming" (Monika Ermert) (jk/c't) -- ________________________________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant 2 Cutten St Horison Roodepoort-Johannesburg, South Africa Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336 Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838 _______________ áâãçéêíóôõúç ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 29 22:06:01 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 19:06:01 -0800 Subject: [governance] Announcement Proposal IGF Dynamic CoalitionInternetof References: <492B600E.50701@ensta.fr> <49300C23.8030601@mdpi.net> <492F70E3.D442DDBD@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <49320319.4771AF32@ix.netcom.com> Rui and all, Oh? Well than all these many years I must have been mistaken in understanding that the tango was a dance. Hummm? Rui Correia wrote: > Dear All and All > > I agree - quite "tangable". But then, it takes two to tango! And the > tango is rather physical tangy too! > On 28/11/2008, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: > > > "Things" implies something tangable, > or physical. > > > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 30 01:22:20 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:22:20 -0800 Subject: [governance] "Reality Mining" Resets the Privacy Debate Message-ID: <4932311C.3EBD2B8D@ix.netcom.com> All, Although our members are not on board with this concept or perhaps it is better called an idology, the following in respect to a Internet Bill of Rights, should be useful for background information. See: An anonymous reader sends us to the NYTimes for a sobering look at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/business/30privacy.html the frontiers of "collective intelligence," also called in the article "reality mining." These techniques go several steps beyond the pedestrian version of "data mining" with which the Pentagon and/or DHS have been flirting. The article profiles projects at MIT, UCLA, Google, and elsewhere in networked sensor research and other forms of collective intelligence. "About 100 students at MIT agreed to completely give away their privacy to get a free smartphone. 'Now, when he dials another student, researchers know. When he sends an e-mail or text message, they also know. When he listens to music, they know the song. Every moment he has his Windows Mobile smartphone with him, they know where he is, and who's nearby.' ... Indeed, some collective-intelligence researchers argue that strong concerns about privacy rights are a relatively recent phenomenon in human history. ... 'For most of human history, people have lived in small tribes where everything they did was known by everyone they knew,' Dr. Malone said. 'In some sense we're becoming a global village. Privacy may turn out to have become an anomaly.'" Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From email at hakik.org Sat Nov 1 04:34:20 2008 From: email at hakik.org (Hakikur Rahman) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 14:34:20 +0600 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081101082835.08C9D6781B@smtp1.electricembers.net> Perhaps, if the visa issuing authority acts positively the procedure could be reduced. Obtaining the list from IGF, they can proceed. While attending IGF at Rio, Brazilian consulate in New Delhi took less than two hours to issue a gratis visa. All it needed a telephone call to the respective person (available from the web site) while departing from Dhaka (there were paper formalities, of course). I am sure, Government of India will take necessary steps to solve these issues. Best regards, Hakik At 03:15 AM 10/28/2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: >Hello All, > >By comparison, (or to inspire the Government of India), here is an >account of how the OECD Secretariat responded to a similar situation >when I sent an email to draw attention to my VISA application to >visit Korea to attend the OECD Ministerial Meeting on the Future of Internet. > >My trip was finalized so late that there was barely enough time for >my passport to reach the Korean Embassy in Delhi, just a day to >process (the Embassy usually takes three days) and barely enough >time for the passport to travel back from Delhi to Chennai. So I >sent an email to the OECD Secretariat asking them to send a second >email to the Korean Embassy in Delhi ( in addition to the invitation >that had already been automatically faxed from the OECD Secretariat >to the Korean Embassy in Delhi to say that I am an invited participant). > >My email was instantly forwarded to an Executive at the OECD >Secretariat for immediate attention, and he telephoned the Consul at >the South Korean Embassy at Delhi, then sent me an email to say that >he has spoken to the Consul and advised me to advise my Agent to >take the papers straight upstairs to the Counsel's Office. He also >spoke to me to keep me informed of his efforts, called me thrice >more, sent two or three messages during those two days to check the >status and to ask me if it was done, and did not stop until I told >him that I got my VISA. My VISA was processed on the same day and >was rushed back. I made it to the OECD meeting. > >Hopefully the IGF Secretariat and the Ministries of Commerce and >External Affairs in India prioritize VISA applications by IGF >participants in Indian Embassies around the world ! > >(Parminder could also offer his valuable Special Advice to the IGF >Chair on this) > >Sivasubramanian Muthusamy >ISOC India Chennai Chapter. > > >On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 1:57 AM, Konstantinos Komaitis ><k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk> wrote: >I am also located in the UK and they do not accept the email >confirming registration at the IGF. They say that they want a letter >of invitation, my passport has been held by the Indian authorities >for the past 2 weeks. They say that we need a letter of invitation >even if we are to apply for business visa. > > >Konstantinos >________________________________________ >From: Roland Perry >[roland at internetpolicyagency.com] >Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:09 PM >To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? > >In message ><4905D8AE.40007 at gmail.com>, at >16:05:18 on Mon, 27 Oct 2008, >Elena Pavan <pavan.elena at gmail.com> writes > >Indian government should release a *gratis visa to the participants* to > >the IGF in Hyderabad. i just called the agency the italian indian > >consulate indicated me in milan and, apparently, gratis visas will be > >released only for those who own a UN passport > >In the UK many Indian visa applications are handled through an agency >appointed by the consulate. They say they know nothing about this "free >Visa" arrangement, and looking at their online application process I >think it will fail if I don't include the standard "Conference visa" >fee. I live over two hours from London and was hoping not to have to >travel and queue all day (as is apparently required when applying in >person). > >The next obstacle is whether or not they will accept the email from the >secretariat as a "signed letter of invitation". And will they also >require a letter from my employer (in this case RIPE NCC in >Netherlands). >-- >Roland Perry >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > >http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > >http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > >-- >http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 2 03:18:30 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 01:18:30 -0700 Subject: [governance] French Senate Passes Anti-Piracy Internet Cut-Off Law Message-ID: <490D6256.2A507AD9@ix.netcom.com> All, What does this interesting news say for an Internet Bill of Rights? What does this French legislation do regarding web sites that offer pirated music or video? Seems none. As such is that saying that individuals have less rights than institutional or corporate wrong doers? Seems so. How will France enforce this outside of France, or will/can they? See: The French Senate has http://euobserver.com/9/27026 approved a three strikes law for Internet users who download copyrighted entertainment media without paying for it. If, after two warnings, a person continues to download pirated music and movies, the internet service providers would cut off access for a year. Quoting: 'The legislation passed with a massive cross-party majority of 297 votes to 15. Only a handful of conservatives, centrists and socialists voted against, while the Communists abstained. In passing the bill, the senators rejected an amendment proposed by senator Bruno Retailleau of the right-wing MPF party replacing internet cut-off with a fine. ... The bill sets up a tussle between France and Brussels. In September, the European Parliament approved by a large majority an amendment outlawing internet cut-off. Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Mon Nov 3 02:31:43 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:31:43 +0000 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <49052C1F.716CC717@ix.netcom.com> <4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423@mail.gmail.com> <4d976d8e0810311111j359ca593g6ab947800950ce9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: In message , at 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy writes >As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of India >to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of >Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think the >Visa issue stands resolved." > >The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure that >participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to attend >the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps taken >by GOI on this issue to take effe Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the "instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the host country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements including the status of the registration confirmation as an invitation. -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 04:47:39 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 15:17:39 +0530 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> <49052C1F.716CC717@ix.netcom.com> <4d976d8e0810311028u58b445a6u45b45a1a2bbe4423@mail.gmail.com> <4d976d8e0810311111j359ca593g6ab947800950ce9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Roland, All that I did was to bring this thread to the attention of the Ministry of Information Technology which has acted on this communication swiftly. I did send a note to thank the Government in my capacity as "a person living in India". I am certain that the participants from the world over would have a pleasant and memorable experience in India during the IGF. Thanks Sivasubramanian Muthusamy India. On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Roland Perry < roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote: > In message , > at 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy < > isolatedn at gmail.com> writes > >> As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of India to >> take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of Information >> Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think the Visa issue stands >> resolved." >> >> The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure that >> participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to attend the >> IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps taken by GOI on >> this issue to take effe >> > > Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian > Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the "instructions to > Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the host country website soon, > which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements including the status of the > registration confirmation as an invitation. > > -- > Roland Perry > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Mon Nov 3 05:24:59 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 15:54:59 +0530 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20081103102514.A50BDA6C28@smtp2.electricembers.net> The enclosed Govt of India's fax to all its missions abroad requesting gratis visa to be granted to all registered IGF participants is now posted at http://igf2008.in/Travel.aspx. Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: Roland Perry [mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com] > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:02 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? > > In message > , at > 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > writes > >As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of India > >to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of > >Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think the > >Visa issue stands resolved." > > > >The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure that > >participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to attend > >the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps taken > >by GOI on this issue to take effe > > Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian > Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the > "instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the host > country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements > including the status of the registration confirmation as an invitation. > -- > Roland Perry > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: GratisVisa.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 90982 bytes Desc: not available URL: From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Mon Nov 3 14:51:22 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 20:51:22 +0100 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: <20081103102514.A50BDA6C28@smtp2.electricembers.net> References: <20081103102514.A50BDA6C28@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <9FF55119-2E58-4A1E-AD00-346F2833488C@graduateinstitute.ch> Hi, I went today and was told all is in order and I can pick up tomorrow. The interventions from Markus, Shanker/MAG, and folks here seem to have made a difference. However, I was still asked to bring an invite letter from the government, which I had, but shouldn't have needed. I hope more consulates will read the fax correctly, that registration alone is sufficient. Bill On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Parminder wrote: > > The enclosed Govt of India's fax to all its missions abroad requesting > gratis visa to be granted to all registered IGF participants is now > posted > at http://igf2008.in/Travel.aspx. > > Parminder > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roland Perry [mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com] >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:02 PM >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >> Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? >> >> In message >> , at >> 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy >> writes >>> As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of >>> India >>> to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of >>> Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think >>> the >>> Visa issue stands resolved." >>> >>> The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure >>> that >>> participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to >>> attend >>> the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps >>> taken >>> by GOI on this issue to take effe >> >> Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian >> Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the >> "instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the >> host >> country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements >> including the status of the registration confirmation as an >> invitation. >> -- >> Roland Perry >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 3 03:00:16 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2008 00:00:16 -0800 Subject: [governance] Privacy Concerns Over Google On the Rise In Germany Message-ID: <490EAF90.DCDADB9B@ix.netcom.com> All, Well it seems that the privacy concerns of our members in germany has moved forward. There is hope yet for an Internet Bill or Rights... Let freedom ring! Vint, please do yourself and Google a favor and get with the program old buddy! See: After protests from several sources, major German news site http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,587546,00.html Spiegel Online has dropped Google Analytics. 'Google gathers so much detailed information about its users that one critic says some state intelligence bureaus look "like child protection services" in comparison,' they say. Spiegel Online no longer uses Google Analytics. 'We want to ensure that data on our users' browsing patterns don't leave our site,' says Wolfgang Büchner, one of Spiegel Online's two chief editors." The article covers a wide swath of German concern over Google's data-collecting and -handling policies, including a local rebellion against Google's Street View survey vehicles that threatens to go national. Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 281k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From karenb at gn.apc.org Tue Nov 4 05:09:16 2008 From: karenb at gn.apc.org (karen banks) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2008 10:09:16 +0000 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: <9FF55119-2E58-4A1E-AD00-346F2833488C@graduateinstitute.ch> References: <20081103102514.A50BDA6C28@smtp2.electricembers.net> <9FF55119-2E58-4A1E-AD00-346F2833488C@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: <20081104101013.A0C661DE9AE@mail.gn.apc.org> hi bill Who did the letter for you? karen At 19:51 03/11/2008, William Drake wrote: >Hi, > >I went today and was told all is in order and I can pick up >tomorrow. The interventions from Markus, Shanker/MAG, and folks here >seem to have made a difference. However, I was still asked to bring >an invite letter from the government, which I had, but shouldn't have >needed. I hope more consulates will read the fax correctly, that >registration alone is sufficient. > >Bill > >On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Parminder wrote: > >> >>The enclosed Govt of India's fax to all its missions abroad requesting >>gratis visa to be granted to all registered IGF participants is now >>posted >>at http://igf2008.in/Travel.aspx. >> >>Parminder >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Roland Perry [mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com] >>>Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:02 PM >>>To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >>>Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? >>> >>>In message >>>, at >>>04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy >>> writes >>>>As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of >>>>India >>>>to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of >>>>Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think >>>>the >>>>Visa issue stands resolved." >>>> >>>>The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure >>>>that >>>>participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to >>>>attend >>>>the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps >>>>taken >>>>by GOI on this issue to take effe >>> >>>Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian >>>Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the >>>"instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the >>>host >>>country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements >>>including the status of the registration confirmation as an >>>invitation. >>>-- >>>Roland Perry >>>____________________________________________________________ >>>You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>>To be removed from the list, send any message to: >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >>> >>>For all list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >>____________________________________________________________ >>You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >>For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Thu Nov 6 07:09:50 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 17:39:50 +0530 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: <20081104101013.A0C661DE9AE@mail.gn.apc.org> Message-ID: <20081106121001.C015DE3180@smtp3.electricembers.net> As per MAG discussions and also IGF website FAQs (new addition) if the IGF registration does not work, one has to write to Dr Govind at drgovind[at]nic.in. To quote 'you will need to provide your full name, nationality, profession and passport number'. Parminder _____ From: karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:39 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; William Drake; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? hi bill Who did the letter for you? karen At 19:51 03/11/2008, William Drake wrote: Hi, I went today and was told all is in order and I can pick up tomorrow. The interventions from Markus, Shanker/MAG, and folks here seem to have made a difference. However, I was still asked to bring an invite letter from the government, which I had, but shouldn't have needed. I hope more consulates will read the fax correctly, that registration alone is sufficient. Bill On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Parminder wrote: The enclosed Govt of India's fax to all its missions abroad requesting gratis visa to be granted to all registered IGF participants is now posted at http://igf2008.in/Travel.aspx. Parminder -----Original Message----- From: Roland Perry [ mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com ] Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:02 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? In message , at 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy writes As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of India to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think the Visa issue stands resolved." The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure that participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to attend the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps taken by GOI on this issue to take effe Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the "instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the host country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements including the status of the registration confirmation as an invitation. -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From Christopher.wilkinson at skynet.be Thu Nov 6 08:45:31 2008 From: Christopher.wilkinson at skynet.be (Christopher Wilkinson) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:45:31 +0100 Subject: [governance] visas for india? References: <20081106121001.C015DE3180@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <485FF3E5D065471191711FDF2C31A76F@wilkinson> Good afternoon: For your information, the Embassy of India in Brussels thismorning accepted the IGF confirmation of Registration e-mail, supported by a copy of a faxed document dated 22.10.2008, that the New Delhi Foreign Ministry has send to all Indian Missions Posts Abroad, to the effect that the Conference Visa should be delivered Gratis for IGF participants. I was given a copy of the latter document by chance from a friend who is also going to Hyderabad. I guess it might be useful for some participants if the IGF Secretariat were to post a scan of it somewhere . . . Regards to you all, CW ----- Original Message ----- From: Parminder To: governance at lists.cpsr.org ; 'karen banks' Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:09 PM Subject: RE: [governance] visas for india? As per MAG discussions and also IGF website FAQs (new addition) if the IGF registration does not work, one has to write to Dr Govind at drgovind[at]nic.in. To quote 'you will need to provide your full name, nationality, profession and passport number'. Parminder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:39 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; William Drake; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? hi bill Who did the letter for you? karen At 19:51 03/11/2008, William Drake wrote: Hi, I went today and was told all is in order and I can pick up tomorrow. The interventions from Markus, Shanker/MAG, and folks here seem to have made a difference. However, I was still asked to bring an invite letter from the government, which I had, but shouldn't have needed. I hope more consulates will read the fax correctly, that registration alone is sufficient. Bill On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Parminder wrote: The enclosed Govt of India's fax to all its missions abroad requesting gratis visa to be granted to all registered IGF participants is now posted at http://igf2008.in/Travel.aspx. Parminder -----Original Message----- From: Roland Perry [ mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com] Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:02 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? In message , at 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy writes As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of India to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think the Visa issue stands resolved." The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure that participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to attend the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps taken by GOI on this issue to take effe Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the "instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the host country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements including the status of the registration confirmation as an invitation. -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Thu Nov 6 09:06:21 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 14:06:21 +0000 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: <485FF3E5D065471191711FDF2C31A76F@wilkinson> References: <20081106121001.C015DE3180@smtp3.electricembers.net> <485FF3E5D065471191711FDF2C31A76F@wilkinson> Message-ID: <7ggzK$HdnvEJFAaX@perry.co.uk> In message <485FF3E5D065471191711FDF2C31A76F at wilkinson>, at 14:45:31 on Thu, 6 Nov 2008, Christopher Wilkinson writes > supported by a copy of a faxed document dated 22.10.2008,  that the >New Delhi Foreign Ministry has send to all Indian Missions Posts >Abroad, to the effect that the Conference Visa should be delivered >Gratis for IGF participants. >  >I was given a copy of the latter document by chance from a friend who >is also going to Hyderabad. I guess it might be useful for some >participants if the IGF Secretariat were to post a scan of it somewhere Such a copy was posted by the organisers to the "Visa" section of the Host Country website earlier this week. -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Thu Nov 6 09:34:59 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 15:34:59 +0100 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: <20081106121001.C015DE3180@smtp3.electricembers.net> References: <20081106121001.C015DE3180@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <1EBDB6C0-5D22-44C4-8E7B-B72892451776@graduateinstitute.ch> Hi, Glad to know that he has publicly offered to help. Markus gave me his details but I didn't know he was open to any and all inquiries. For most people this really shouldn't be necessary, the IGF registration and invite letter on the web is supposed to suffice, but it may be that people from some particular countries or whatever need more targeted assistance. Best, Bill On Nov 6, 2008, at 1:09 PM, Parminder wrote: > As per MAG discussions and also IGF website FAQs (new addition) if > the IGF registration does not work, one has to write to Dr Govind > at drgovind[at]nic.in. To quote ‘you will need to provide your full > name, nationality, profession and passport number’. > > > > Parminder > > > > From: karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:39 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; William Drake; > governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder > Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? > > > > hi bill > > Who did the letter for you? > > karen > > At 19:51 03/11/2008, William Drake wrote: > > > Hi, > > I went today and was told all is in order and I can pick up > tomorrow. The interventions from Markus, Shanker/MAG, and folks here > seem to have made a difference. However, I was still asked to bring > an invite letter from the government, which I had, but shouldn't have > needed. I hope more consulates will read the fax correctly, that > registration alone is sufficient. > > Bill > > On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Parminder wrote: > > > > > The enclosed Govt of India's fax to all its missions abroad requesting > gratis visa to be granted to all registered IGF participants is now > posted > at http://igf2008.in/Travel.aspx. > > Parminder > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roland Perry [ mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com] > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:02 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? > > In message > , at > 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > writes > > > As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of > India > to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of > Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think > the > Visa issue stands resolved." > > The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure > that > participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to > attend > the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps > taken > by GOI on this issue to take effe > > > Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian > Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the > "instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the > host > country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements > including the status of the registration confirmation as an > invitation. > -- > Roland Perry > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 09:57:34 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 20:27:34 +0530 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: <1EBDB6C0-5D22-44C4-8E7B-B72892451776@graduateinstitute.ch> References: <20081106121001.C015DE3180@smtp3.electricembers.net> <1EBDB6C0-5D22-44C4-8E7B-B72892451776@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: Hello William Drake, On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:04 PM, William Drake wrote: > Hi, > Glad to know that he has publicly offered to help. Markus gave me his > details but I didn't know he was open to any and all inquiries. For most > people this really shouldn't be necessary, the IGF registration and invite > letter on the web is supposed to suffice, but it may be that people from > some particular countries or whatever need more targeted assistance. > This thread "Visas for India" is likely to be on the watch list of the Government of India as it has acted on the earlier issues raised in this thread. Anyone from any country in need of "more targeted assistance" could perhaps come to this thread and bring it up here for possible immediate attention by the Ministry of Information Technology and the Ministry of External Affairs (VISA issues are universal - every country's visa practices have some imperfection or another, so a discussion on India VISA issues might not be considered an embarrassment). Also, as could be inferred from Parminder's message on what to do if the registration form does not work, Dr Govind would be in a position to pay specific attention to these issues. Such cases that require "more targeted assistance" could also be brought to the notice of Dr Govind at drgovind at nic dot in . This is just a guess that I am making with not much a direct connection to have authentic information about how it all works. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > Best, > > Bill > > On Nov 6, 2008, at 1:09 PM, Parminder wrote: > > As per MAG discussions and also IGF website FAQs (new addition) if the IGF > registration does not work, one has to write to Dr Govind at drgovind[at] > nic.in. To quote 'you will need to provide your full name, nationality, > profession and passport number'. > > > > Parminder > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org ] > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:39 PM > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; William Drake; governance at lists.cpsr.org; > Parminder > *Subject:* Re: [governance] visas for india? > > > > hi bill > > Who did the letter for you? > > karen > > At 19:51 03/11/2008, William Drake wrote: > > Hi, > > I went today and was told all is in order and I can pick up > tomorrow. The interventions from Markus, Shanker/MAG, and folks here > seem to have made a difference. However, I was still asked to bring > an invite letter from the government, which I had, but shouldn't have > needed. I hope more consulates will read the fax correctly, that > registration alone is sufficient. > > Bill > > On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Parminder wrote: > > > > The enclosed Govt of India's fax to all its missions abroad requesting > gratis visa to be granted to all registered IGF participants is now > posted > at http://igf2008.in/Travel.aspx. > > Parminder > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Roland Perry [ mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com > ] > Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:02 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? > > In message > , at > 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > writes > > As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of > India > to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of > Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think > the > Visa issue stands resolved." > > The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure > that > participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to > attend > the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps > taken > by GOI on this issue to take effe > > > Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian > Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the > "instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the > host > country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements > including the status of the registration confirmation as an > invitation. > -- > Roland Perry > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From fouadbajwa at gmail.com Thu Nov 6 16:27:55 2008 From: fouadbajwa at gmail.com (Fouad Bajwa) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 03:27:55 +0600 Subject: [governance] Text of Pakistan's Prevention of Electronic Crimes Ordinance, 2008 (Ordinance No. IX of 2008) Message-ID: <701af9f70811061327y30ecf579i98a743cd9c6896a8@mail.gmail.com> President promulgates ordinance to prevent electronic crimes http://www.app.com.pk/en_/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=58277&Itemid=1 ISLAMABAD, Nov 6 (APP): The President has promulgated the Prevention of Electronic Crimes Ordinance, 2008 (Ordinance No. IX of 2008) to make provision for prevention of the electronic crimes. This Ordinance may be called the Prevention of Electronic Crimes Ordinance, 2008. This Ordinance extends to the whole of Pakistan and it shall apply to every person who commits an offence under this Ordinance irrespective of his nationality or citizenship whatsoever or in any place outside or inside Pakistan, having detrimental effect on the security of Pakistan or its nationals or national harmony or any property or any electronic system or data located in Pakistan or any electronic system or data capable of being connected, sent to, used by or with any electronic system in Pakistan. It shall come into force at once and shall be deemed to have taken effect on the 29th September, 2008. Following is the text of the Ordinance: WHEREAS it is expedient of prevent any action directed against the confidentiality, integrity and availability of electronic system, networks and data as well as the misuse of such system, networks and data by providing for the punishment of such actions and to provide mechanism for investigation, prosecution and trial of offenses and for matters connected herewith or ancillary thereto; AND WHEREAS THE the National Assembly is not in session and the President is satisfied that the circumstances exist which render it necessary to take immediate action; NOW, THEREFORE, in exercise of the powers conferred by clause (1) of Article 89 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, and in exercise of all powers enabling in that behalf, the President is pleased to make and promulgate the following Ordinance:- 2. Definitions.- (1) In this Ordinance, unless there is anything repugnant in the subject or context,- (a) "access" means gaining access to any electronic system or data held in an electronic system or by causing the electronic system to perform any function to achieve that objective; (b) "Authority" means the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority established under section 3 of the Pakistan Telecommunication (Re-organization) Act, 1996 (XVII of 1996); (c) "Code" means the Code of Criminal Procedure, 1898( Act V of 1898); (d) "Constitution" means Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan; (e) "data" means representations of information or of concepts that are being prepared or have been prepared in a form suitable for use in an electronic system including but not limited to computer program, text, images, sound, video and information within a database or electronic system; (f) "decision of the Authority" means decision given, determination made or order passed by the Authority under any of the provisions of the Pakistan Telecommunication (Re-organization) Act, 1996 (XVII of 1996) on any matter relating to one or more licensed operators pursuant to the powers conferred upon the Authority by any other law, rule, regulation or directive for the time being in force which includes any interim order passed by the Authority pending final decision; (g) "Electronic Certification Accreditation Council" means the council established under section 18 of the Electronic Transaction Ordinance, 2002 (LI of 2002); (h) "electronic" includes but not limited to electrical, digital, analogue, magnetic, optical, biochemical, electrochemical, electromechanical,electromagnetic, radio electric or wireless technology; (i) "electronic device" means any hardware which performs one or more specific functions and operates on any form or combination of electrical energy; (j) "electronic mail message" means any data generated by an electronic system for a unique electronic mail address; (k) "electronic mail address" means a destination, commonly expressed as a string of characters, consisting of a unique user or group name or mailbox, commonly referred to as the local part, and a reference to an internet or intranet domain, commonly referred to as the domain part, whether or not displayed, to which an electronic mail message can be sent or delivered or originated from and includes an electronic mail address which may be permanent, dynamic or disposable; (1) "electronic system" means any electronic device or a group of interconnected or related devices, one or more of which, pursuant to a program or manual or any external instruction, performs automatic processing of information or data and may also include a permanent, removable or any other electronic storage medium; (m) "encrypted data" means data which has been transformed or scrambled from its plain version or text to an unreadable or incomprehensible format and is recoverable by an associated decryption or decoding technique, regardless of the technique utilized for such transformation or scrambling and irrespective of the medium in which such data occurs or can be found for the purposes of protecting such data; (n) "function" includes logic, control, arithmetic, deletion, storage and retrieval and communication or telecommunication to, from or within an electronic system; (o) "Interpol" means International Criminal Police Organization; (p) "offence" includes,- (i) an offence punishable under this Ordinance; (ii) an offence punishable under the laws mentioned in the Schedule ; or (iii) any other offence punishable under any other law for the time being in force if committed through or by using any computer, electronic system, electronic means or electronic device as a means or tool; (q) "plain version" means original data before it has been transformed or scrambled to an unreadable or incomprehensible format or after it has been recovered by using any decryption or decoding technique; (r) "rules" means rules made under this Ordinance; (s) "Schedule" means the Schedule to this Ordinance; (t) "sensitive electronic system" means an electronic system used directly in connection with or necessary for,- (i) the security, defence or international relations of Pakistan; (ii) the existence or identity of a confidential source of information relating to the enforcement of criminal law; (iii) the provision of services directly related to communications infrastructure, banking and financial services, public utilities, courts, public transportation, public key infrastructure, payment systems infrastructure or e-commerce infrastructure ; (iv) the protection of public safety including systems related to essential emergency services such as police, civil defence and medical services ; (iv) the purpose declared as such by the Federal Government in accordance with the prescribed procedure ; or (vi) containing any data or database protected as such, by any other laws. (u) "service provider" includes but not limited to ,- (i) a person acting as a service provider in relation to sending, receiving, storing or processing of electronic communication or the provision of other services in relation to electronic communication through any electronic system; (ii) a person who owns, possesses, operates, manages or controls a public switched network or provides telecommunication services; or (iii) any other person who processes or stores data on behalf of such electronic communication service or users of such service; (v) "subscriber information" means any information contained in any form that is held by a service provider, relating to subscriber's services other'than traffic data and by which can be established,- (i) the type of communication service used, the technical provisions taken thereto and the period of service; (ii) the subscriber's identity, postal geographic, "electronic mail address, telephone and other access number, billing and payment information, available on the basis of the service agreement or arrangement; or (iii) any other information on the site of the installation of communication equipment, ¦ available on the basis of the service agreement or arrangement; (w) "traffic data" means any data relating to a communication by means of an electronic system, generated by an electronic system that formed a part in the chain of communication, indicating the communication's origin, destination, route, time, date, size, duration, or type of underlying service; (x) "Tribunal" means the Information and Communication Technologies Tribunal constituted under section 31; and (y) "unauthorized access" means access of any kind by any person to any electronic system or data held in an electronic system or electronic device, without authority or in excess of authority, if he is not himself entitled to control access of the kind in question to the electronic system or electronic device, or data and he does not have consent to such access from any person, so entitled. CHAPTER-II OFFENCES AND PUNISHMENTS 3. Criminal access .- Whoever intentionally gains unauthorized access to the whole or any part of an electronic system or electronic device with or without infringing security measures, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to two years, or with fine not exceeding three hundred thousand rupees, or with both. 4. Criminal data access,- Whoever intentionally causes any electronic system or electronic device to perform any function for the purpose of gaining unauthorized access to any data held in any electronic system or electronic device or on obtaining such unauthorized access shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine or with both. 5. Data damage.- Whoever with intent to illegal gain or cause harm to the public or any person, damages any data shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both. Explanation .- For the purpose of this section the expression "data damage" includes but not limited to modifying, altering, deleting, deterioration, erasing, suppressing, changing location of data or making data temporarily or permanently unavailable, halting electronic system, choking the networks or affecting the reliability or usefulness of data. 6. System damage.- Whoever with intent to cause damage to the public or any person interferes with or interrupts or obstructs the functioning, reliability or usefulness of an electronic system or electronic device by inputting, transmitting, damaging, deleting, altering, tempering, deteriorating or suppressing any data or services or halting electronic system or choking the networks shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine or, with both. Explanation .- For the purpose of this section the expression "services" include any kind of service provided through electronic system. 7. Electronic fraud.- Whoever for wrongful gain interferes with or uses any data, electronic system or electronic device or induces any person to enter into a relationship or with intent to deceive any person, which act or omission is likely to cause damage or harm to that person or any other person shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to seven years, or with fine, or with both. 8. Electronic forgery.- Whoever for wrongful gain interferes with data, electronic system or electronic device, with intent to cause damage or injury to the public or to any person, or to make any illegal claim or title or to cause any person to part with property or to enter into any express or implied contract, or with intent to commit fraud by any input, alteration, deletion, or suppression of data, resulting in unauthentic data with the intent that it be considered or acted upon for legal purposes as if it were authentic, regardless of the fact that the data is directly readable and intelligible or not shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to seven years, or with fine or with both. 9. Misuse of electronic system or electronic device.- (1) Whoever produces, possesses, sells, procures, transports, imports, distributes or otherwise makes available an electronic system or electronic device, including a computer program, designed or adapted primarily for the purpose of committing any of the offences established under this Ordinance or a password, access code, or similar data by which the whole or any part of an electronic system or electronic device is capable of being accessed or its functionality compromised or reverse engineered , with the intent that it be used for the purpose of committing any of the offences established under this Ordinance, is said to commit offence of misuse of electronic system or electronic devices: Provided that the provisions of this section shall not apply to the authorized testing or protection of an electronic system for any lawful purpose. (2) Whoever commits the offence described in sub-section (1) shall be punishable with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both. 10. Unauthorized access to code.- Whoever discloses or obtains any password, access as to code, system design or any other means of gaining access to any electronic system or data with intent to obtain wrongful gain, do reverse engineering or cause wrongful loss to any person or for any other unlawful purpose shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both. 11. Misuse of encryption.- Whoever for the purpose of commission of an offence or concealment of incriminating evidence, knowingly and willfully encrypts any incriminating communication or data contained in electronic system relating to that crime or incriminating evidence, commits the offence of misuse of encryption shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to five years, or with fine, or with both. 12. Malicious code.- (1) Whoever willfully writes, offers, makes available, distributes or transmits malicious code through an electronic system or electronic device, with intent to cause harm to any electronic system or resulting in the corruption, destruction, alteration, suppression, theft or loss of data commits the offence of malicious code: Provided that the provision of this section shall not apply to the authorized testing, research and development or protection of an electronic system for any lawful purpose. Explanation,- For the purpose of this section the expression "malicious code" includes but not limited to a computer program or a hidden function in a program that damages data or compromises the electronic system's performance or uses the electronic system resources without proper authorization, with or without attaching its copy to a file and is capable of spreading over electronic system with or without human intervention including virus, worm or Trojan horse. (2) Whoever commits the offence specified in sub-section (1) shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to five years, or with fine or with both. 13. Cyber stalking.- (1) Whoever with intent to coerce , intimidate, or harass any person uses computer, computer network, internet, network site ,electronic mail or any other similar means of communication to,- (a) communicate obscene, vulgar, profane, lewd, lascivious , or indecent language, picture or image; (b) make any suggestion or proposal of an obscene nature; (c) threaten any illegal or immoral act; (d) take or distribute pictures or photographs of any person without his consent or knowledge; or (e) display or distribute information in a manner that substantially increases the risk of harm or violence to any other person, commits the offence of cyber stalking. (2) Whoever commits the offence specified in sub-section (1) shall be punishable with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to seven years or with fine not exceeding three hundred thousand rupees, or with both: Provided that if the victim of the cyber stalking under sub-section (1) is a minor the punishment may extend to ten years or with fine not less than one hundred thousand rupees, or with both. 14. Spamming.- (1) Whoever transmits harmful, fraudulent, misleading, illegal or unsolicited electronic messages in bulk to any person without the express permission of the recipient, or causes any electronic system to show any such message or involves in falsified online user account registration or falsified domain name registration for commercial purpose commits the offence of spamming. (2) Whoever commits the offence of spamming as described in sub-section (1) shall be punishable with fine not exceeding fifty thousand rupees if he commits this offence of spamming for the first time and for every subsequent commission of offence of spamming he shall be punished with imprisonment of three months or with fine, or with both. 15. Spoofing.(l) Whoever establishes a website, or sends an electronic messagewith a counterfeit source intended to be believed by the recipient or visitor or its electronic system to be an authentic source with intent to gain unauthorized access or obtain valuable information which later can be used for any unlawful purposes commits the offence of spoofing. (2) Whoever commits the offence of spoofing specified in sub-section (1) shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both. 16. Unauthorized interception.- (1) Whoever without lawful authority intercepts by technical means, transmissions of data to, from or within an electronic system including electromagnetic emissions from an electronic system carrying such data commits the offence of unauthorized interception. (2) Whoever commits the offence of unauthorized interception described in sub-section (1) shall be punished with imprisonment of either description fora term which may extend to five years, or with fine not exceeding five hundred thousand rupees, or with both. 17. Cyber terrorism.- (1) Any person, group or organization who, with terroristic intent utilizes, accesses or causes to be accessed a computer or computer network or electronic system or electronic device or by any available means, and thereby knowingly engages in or attempts to engage in a terroristic act commits the offence of cyber terrorism. Explanation l.- For the purposes of this section the expression "terroristic intent" means to act with the purpose to alarm, frighten, disrupt, harm, damage, or carry out an act of violence against any segment of the population, the Government or entity associated therewith. Explanation 2.- For the purposes of this section the expression "terroristic act" includes, but is not limited to,- (a) altering by addition, deletion, or change or attempting to alter information that may result in the imminent injury, sickness, or death to any segment of the population; (b) transmission or attempted transmission of a harmful program with the purpose of substantially disrupting or disabling any computer network operated by the Government or any public entity; (c) aiding the commission of or attempting to aid the commission of an act of violence against the sovereignty of Pakistan, whether or not the commission of such act of violence is actually completed; or (d) stealing or copying, or attempting to steal or copy, or secure classified information or data necessary to manufacture any form of chemical, biological or nuclear weapon, or any other weapon of mass destruction. (2) Whoever commits the offence of cyber terrorism and causes death of anyperson shall be punishable with death or imprisonment for life, and with fine and in any other case he shall be punishable with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years, or with fine not less than ten-million rupees, or with both. 18. Enhanced punishment for offences involving sensitive electronic systems.-(l) Whoever causes criminal access to any sensitive electronic system in the course of the commission of any of the offences established under this Ordinance shall, in addition to the punishment prescribed for that offence, be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years, or with fine not exceeding one million rupees, or with both. (2) For the purposes of any prosecution under this section, it shall be presumed, until contrary is proved, that the accused had the requisite knowledge that it was a sensitive electronic system. 19. Of abets, aids or attempts to commits offence .- (1) Any person who knowingly and willfully abets the commission of or who aids to commit or does any act preparatory to or in furtherance of the commission of any offence under this Ordinance shall be guilty of that offence and shall be liable on conviction to the punishment provided for the offence. (2) Any person who attempts to commit an offence under this Ordinance shall be punished for a term which may extend to one-half of the longest term of imprisonment provided for that offence. Explanation.- For aiding or abetting an offence to be committed under this section, it is immaterial whether the offence has been committed or not. 20. Other offences.- Whoever commits any offence other than those expressly provided under this Ordinance, with the help of computer electronic system, electronic device or any other electronic means shall be punished, in addition to the punishment provided for that offence, with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to two years, or with fine not exceeding two hundred thousand rupees, or with both. 21. Offences by corporate body.- A corporate body shall be held liable for an offence under this Ordinance if the offence is committed on its instructions or for its benefit. The corporate body shall be punished with fine not less than one hundred thousand rupees or the amount involved in the offence whichever is the higher: Provided that such punishment shall not absolve the criminal liability of the natural person who has committed the offence. Explanation.- For the purposes of this section corporate body, includes a body of persons incorporated under any law such as trust, waqf, an association, a statutory body or a company. CHAPTER-III PROSECUTION AND TRIAL OF OFFENCES 22. Offences to be compoundable and non-cognizable.- All offences under this Ordinance shall be compoundable, non-cognizable and bailable except the offences punishable with imprisonment for seven years or more. 23. Prosecution and trial of offences.- (1) The Tribunal shall take cognizance of and try any offence under this Ordinance . (2) In all matters with respect to which no procedure has been provided in this Ordinance or the rules made thereunder, the provisions of the Code shall, mutatis mutandis, apply for the trial. (3) All proceedings before the Tribunal shall be deemed to be judicial proceedings within the meanings of sections 193 and 228 of the Pakistan Penal Code, 1860 (XLV of 1860) and the Tribunal shall be deemed to be a Court for the purposes of sections 480 and 482 of the Code. 24. Order for payment of compensation.- The Tribunal may, on awarding punishment of imprisonment or fine or both for commission of any offence, make an order for payment of any compensation to the victim for any damage caused to his electronic system or data by commission of the offence and the compensation so awarded shall be recoverable as arrears of land revenue: Provided that the compensation awarded by the Tribunal shall not prejudice any right to a civil remedy for the recovery of damages beyond the amount of compensation awarded. CHAPTER-IV ESTABLISHMENT OF INVESTIGATION AND PROSECUTION AGENCIES 25. Establishment of investigation agencies and prosecution.- The Federal Government shall establish a specialized investigation and prosecution cell within Federal Investigation Agency to investigate and prosecute the offences under this Ordinance: Provided that till such time any agency is so established, the investigation and prosecution of an offence shall be conducted in accordance with the provisions of the Code: Provided further that any police officer investigating an offence under this Ordinance may seek assistance of any special investigation agency for any technical in-put, collection and preservation of evidence. 26. Powers of officer.- (1) Subject to obtaining search warrant an investigation officer shall be entitled to,- (a) have access to and inspect the operation of any electronic system; (b) use or cause to be used any such electronic system to search any data contained in or available to such electronic system; (c) have access to or demand any information, code or technology which has the capability of retransforming or unscrambling encrypted data contained or available to such electronic system into readable and comprehensible format or plain version; (d) require any person by whom or on whose behalf, the investigating officer has reasonable cause to believe, any electronic system has been used; (e) require any person having charge of, or otherwise concerned with the operation of such electronic system to provide him reasonable technical and other assistance as he may require for the purposes of clauses (a), (b) and (c); and (f) require any person who is in possession of decryption information of under investigation electronic system , device or data to grant him access to such decryption information necessary to decrypt data required for the purpose of investigating any such offence. Explanation.- Decryption information means information or technology that enables a person to readily retransform or unscramble encrypted data from its unreadable and from cipher text to its plain text. (2) The police officer may, subject to the proviso, require a service provider to submit subscriber information relating to such services in respect of a person under investigation in that service provider's possession or control necessary for the investigation of the offence: Provided that the investigating officer shall get prior permission to investigate any service provider from the licensing authority where prior permission of the licensing authority is required under any law to investigate the licensed service provider. (3) Any person who obstructs the lawful exercise of the powers under sub-sections (1) or (2) shall be liable to punishment with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to one year, or with fine not exceeding one hundred thousand rupees, or with both. 27. Real-time collection of traffic data.- (1) The Federal Government may require a licensed service provider, within its existing or required technical capability, to collect or record through the application of technical means or to co-operate and assist any law enforcement or intelligence agency in the collection or recording of traffic data or data, in real-time, associated with specified communications transmitted by means of an electronic system. (2) The Federal Government may also require the service provider to keep confidential the fact of the execution of any power provided for in this section and any information relating to it. 28. Retention of traffic data,- (1) A service provider shall, within its existing or required technical capability, retain its traffic data minimum for a period of ninety days and provide that data to the investigating agency or the investigating officer when required. The Federal Government may extend the period to retain such date as and when deems appropriate. (2) The service providers shall retain the traffic data under sub-section (1) by fulfilling all the requirements of data retention and its originality as provided under sections 5 and 6 of the Electronic Transaction Ordinance, 2002 (LI of 2002). (3) Any person who contravenes the provisions of this section shall be punished with imprisonment for a term of six months, or with fine, or with both. 29. Trans-border access.- For the purpose of investigation the Federal Government or the investigation agency may, without the permission of any foreign Government or international agency access publicly available electronic system or data notwithstanding the geographically location of such electronic system or data, or access or receive, through an electronic system, data located in foreign country or territory, if it obtains the lawful and voluntary consent of the person who has the lawful authority to disclose it: Provided that such access is not prohibited under the law of the foreign Government or the international agency: Provided further that the investigating agency shall inform in writing the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Government of Pakistan and other relevant agencies as the case may be about the investigation conducted under this section. CHAPTER - V INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION 30. International cooperation.- (1) The Federal Government may cooperate with any foreign Government, Interpol or any other international agency with whom it has, or establishes, reciprocal arrangements for the purposes of investigations or proceedings concerning offences related to electronic system and data, or for the collection of evidence in electronic form of an offence or obtaining expeditious preservation and disclosure of traffic data or data by means of an electronic system or real-time collection of traffic data associated with specified communications or interception of data. (2) The Federal Government may, without prior request, forward to such foreign Government, Interpol or other international agency, any information obtained from its own investigations if it considers that the disclosure of such information might assist the other Government or agency in initiating or carrying out investigations or proceedings concerning any offence. (3) The Federal Government may require the foreign Government, Interpol or other international agency to keep the information provided confidential or use it subject to some conditions. (4) The investigating agency shall, subject to approval of the Federal Government, be responsible for sending and answering requests for mutual assistance, the execution of such requests or their transmission to the authorities competent for their execution. (5) The Federal Government may refuse to accede to any request made by such foreign Government, Interpol or international agency if the request concerns an offence which is likely to prejudice its sovereignty, security, public order or other essential interests. (6) The Federal Government may postpone action on a request if such action would prejudice investigations of proceedings conducted by its investigation agency. Chapter - VI INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES TRIBUNAL 31. Information and Communication Technologies Tribunal .- (1) As soon as possible after the commencement of this Ordinance , the Federal Government shall, by notification in the official Gazette, constitute the Information and Communication Technologies Tribunal whose principal seat shall be at Islamabad. (2) The Tribunal may hold its sittings at such place or places as the Federal Government may decide. (3) The Tribunal shall consist of a chairman and as many members as the Federal Government may determine but not more than seven members. (4) The Chairman may constitute Benches of the Tribunal and unless otherwise directed by him a Bench shall consist of not less than two members. A Bench shall exercise such powers and discharge such functions as may be prescribed. There shall be established at least one Bench in each province. (5) The Federal Government shall appoint the Chairman and members of the Tribunal. 32. Qualifications for appointment.- (1) A person shall not be qualified for appointment as Chairman unless he is, or has been, or is qualified for appointment as a judge of a High Court. (2) A person shall not be qualified for appointment as a member unless he - (a) has for two years served as a District and Sessions Judge; (b) has for a period of not less than ten years been an advocate of a High Court; or (c) has special knowledge of legislation and professional experience of not less than ten years in the field of telecommunication and information technologies. 33. Salary, allowances and other terms and conditions of services.- The salary, allowances, privileges and the other terms and conditions of service of the Chairman and members of the Tribunal shall be such as the Federal Government may, by notification in official Gazette, determine. 34. Resignation and removal.- (1) The Chairman or a member of the Tribunal may, by writing under his hand addressed to the Federal Government, resign his office: Provided that the Chairman or a member shall, unless he is permitted by the Federal Government to relinquish his office sooner, continue to hold office until the expiry of three months from the date of receipt of such resignation or until a person duly appointed as his successor enters upon his office whichever is earlier. (2) The Chairman or a member of the Tribunal shall not be removed from his office before expiry of the term determined under section 33, by the Federal Government except as may be prescribed. (3) The Federal Government may, by rules, regulate the procedure for the investigation of misconduct or physical or mental incapacity of the Chairman and a member of the Tribunal. 35. Saving Tribunal's proceedings.- No act or proceedings of the Tribunal shall be called in question in any manner on the ground merely of any defeat in the constitution of the Tribunal. 36. Employees of the Tribunal.- (1) The Federal Government shall provide the Tribunal with such employees as the Government may deem appropriate in consultation with the Chairman of the Tribunal. (2) The employees of the Tribunal shall perform their duties under general superintendence of the Chairman of the Tribunal. (3) The salaries, allowances and other conditions of service of the employees of the Tribunal shall be such as may be prescribed by the Federal Government. 37. Right to legal representation.- The parties in appeal may either appear in person or authorize one or more legal practitioners, and in case of a corporate body any of its officers, to present the case before the Tribunal. 38. Amicus curiae. - (1) The Tribunal may, if it so requires, be assisted in technical aspects in any case by an amicus curiae having knowledge and experience in information communication technologies, finance and economics. (2) The Federal Government shall maintain a list of amicus curiae having relevant qualifications and experience. (3) The Tribunal in consultation with the Federal Government shall determine the remuneration of the amicus curiae and the Tribunal may decide the party or parties to pay such remuneration, keeping in view the circumstances of each case. 39. Procedure and powers of Tribunal.- (1) Subject to the provisions of this Ordinance and the rules made thereunder, the Tribunal,-- ' (i) may, where it deems necessary, apply the procedures as provided in the Code or, as the case may be, in the Code of Civil Procedure, 1908 (Act V of 1908); (ii) in the exercise of its civil jurisdiction, shall have powers vested in the civil court under the Code of Civil Procedure, 1908; and (iii) in the exercise of its criminal jurisdiction, shall have the same powers as are vested in the Court of Session under the Code. 40. Appeal to Tribunals.- (1) Any person aggrieved by any of the following orders may, within fifteen days from the date of such order, prefer an appeal to the Tribunal, namely :-- (a) any decision of the Authority; or (b) any decision of the Electronic Certification Accreditation Council: Provided that no appeal shall lie to the Tribunal from an order passed by the Authority or the Electronic Certification Accreditation Council with the consent of the parties. (2) Any appeal against a decision of the Authority shall be accompanied by a court fee,- (a) ten thousand rupees where the valuation of the subject matter in issue is not more than five million rupees; (b) fifty thousand rupees where the valuation of the subject matter in issue is more than five million rupees but not more than ten million rupees; and (c) one hundred thousand rupees where the valuation of the subject matter in issue is more than ten million rupees. if, (3) The appeal filed before the Tribunal under sub-section (1) shall be dealt with by it as expeditiously as possible and the Tribunal shall dispose of the appeal finally within ninety days from the date of receipt of the appeal. 41. Powers of Tribunal.- The Tribunal while hearing an appeal under section 40 shall have all the powers as are vested in the court of first appeal under the Code in exercise of its civil jurisdiction in respect of appeal against any decision or order of the Authority or the Electronic Certification Accreditation Council, 42. Limitation".- The provisions of the Limitation Act, 1908 (IX of 1908), shall, mutatis mutandis , apply to the proceedings of Tribunal. 43. Appeal to High Court. - (1) Any person aggrieved by - (1) any decision or order of the Tribunal made under section 40 may prefer second appeal to the respective High Court within thirty days from the date of the decision or order of the Tribunal: Provided that appeal under this clause shall lie only if the High Court grants leave to appeal; (ii) an order of conviction passed by the Tribunal in respect of any offence under this Ordinance may prefer an appeal to the respective High Court within thirty days of the decision or order of the Tribunal. (2) An appeal against an order of the Tribunal under section 40 or an order of sentence exceeding ten years shall be heard by the Division Bench of the High Court. 44. Civil court not to have jurisdiction.- No court shall have jurisdiction to entertain any suit or proceeding in respect of any matter which the Tribunal constituted under this Ordinance is empowered by or under this Ordinance to determine and no injunction shall be granted by any court or other authority in respect of any action taken or to betaken in pursuance of any power conferred by or under this Ordinance. 45. Transitory proceedings.- (1) Until the establishment of the Tribunal all cases, proceedings and appeals, subject matter of which is within jurisdiction of the Tribunal, shall continue to be heard and decided by the competent forum existing under any law for the time being in force. (2) On the constitution of the Tribunal all cases, proceedings and appeals shall stand transferred to and be heard and disposed of by the Tribunal. (3) On transfer of cases, proceedings and appeals under sub-section (2), the Tribunal shall proceed from the stage the proceedings had reached immediately prior to the transfer and shall not be bound to recall any witness or again record any evidence mat may have been recalled. CHAPTER - VII MISCELLANEOUS 46. Ordinance to override other laws.- The provisions of this Ordinance shall have effect notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in any other law for the time being in force. 47. Power to amend Schedule.- The Federal Government may. by notification in the official Gazette, amend the Schedule so as to add any entry thereto or modify or omit any entry therein. 48. Powers to make rules. - (1) The Federal Government may , by notification in the official Gazette, make rules for carrying out purposes of the Tribunal. 49. Removal of difficulties. - If any difficulty arises in giving effect to the provisions of this Ordinance, the Federal Government may, by order published in the official Gazette , make such provisions not inconsistent with the provisions of this Ordinance as may appear to be necessary for removing the difficulty. THE FIRST SCHEDULE (See section 2(p)(ii)) 1. The Electronic Transactions Ordinance, 2002 (LI of 2002). 2. The Pakistan Telecommunication (Re-organization) Act, 1996 (XVII of 1996). 3. The Telegraph Act, 1885 (XIII of 1885). 4. The Wireless Telegraphy Act, 1933 (XVII of 1933). ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 5 20:49:52 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2008 17:49:52 -0800 Subject: [governance] Text of Pakistan's Prevention of Electronic References: <701af9f70811061327y30ecf579i98a743cd9c6896a8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49124D3F.4104B26@ix.netcom.com> Fouad and all, No offense, but I don't believe that this ordinance will be enforceable outside of Pakistan. Further I am very sure that it does not meet existing international standard, particularly TRIPS. Fouad Bajwa wrote: > President promulgates ordinance to prevent electronic crimes > http://www.app.com.pk/en_/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=58277&Itemid=1 > > ISLAMABAD, Nov 6 (APP): The President has promulgated the Prevention > of Electronic Crimes Ordinance, 2008 (Ordinance No. IX of 2008) to > make provision for prevention of the electronic crimes. This Ordinance > may be called the Prevention of Electronic Crimes Ordinance, 2008. > This Ordinance extends to the whole of Pakistan and it shall apply to > every person who commits an offence under this Ordinance irrespective > of his nationality or citizenship whatsoever or in any place outside > or inside Pakistan, having detrimental effect on the security of > Pakistan or its nationals or national harmony or any property or any > electronic system or data located in Pakistan or any electronic system > or data capable of being connected, sent to, used by or with any > electronic system in Pakistan. > > It shall come into force at once and shall be deemed to have taken > effect on the 29th September, 2008. > > Following is the text of the Ordinance: > > WHEREAS it is expedient of prevent any action directed against the > confidentiality, integrity and availability of electronic system, > networks and data as well as the misuse of such system, networks and > data by providing for the punishment of such actions and to provide > mechanism for investigation, prosecution and trial of offenses and for > matters connected herewith or ancillary thereto; > > AND WHEREAS THE the National Assembly is not in session and the > President is satisfied that the circumstances exist which render it > necessary to take immediate action; > > NOW, THEREFORE, in exercise of the powers conferred by clause (1) > of Article 89 of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, > and in exercise of all powers enabling in that behalf, the President > is pleased to make and promulgate the following Ordinance:- > > 2. Definitions.- (1) In this Ordinance, unless there is anything > repugnant in the subject or context,- > > (a) "access" means gaining access to any electronic system or data > held in an electronic system or by causing the electronic system to > perform any function to achieve that objective; > > (b) "Authority" means the Pakistan Telecommunication Authority > established under section 3 of the Pakistan Telecommunication > (Re-organization) Act, 1996 (XVII of 1996); > > (c) "Code" means the Code of Criminal Procedure, 1898( Act V of 1898); > > (d) "Constitution" means Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan; > > (e) "data" means representations of information or of concepts that > are being prepared or have been prepared in a form suitable for use in > an electronic system > > including but not limited to computer program, text, images, sound, > video and information within a database or electronic system; > > (f) "decision of the Authority" means decision given, determination > made or order passed by the Authority under any of the provisions of > the Pakistan Telecommunication (Re-organization) Act, 1996 (XVII of > 1996) on any matter relating to one or more licensed operators > pursuant to the powers conferred upon the Authority by any other law, > rule, regulation or directive for the time being in force which > includes any interim order passed by the Authority pending final > decision; > > (g) "Electronic Certification Accreditation Council" means the > council established under section 18 of the Electronic Transaction > Ordinance, 2002 (LI of 2002); > > (h) "electronic" includes but not limited to electrical, digital, > analogue, magnetic, optical, biochemical, electrochemical, > electromechanical,electromagnetic, radio electric or wireless > technology; > > (i) "electronic device" means any hardware which performs one or > more specific functions and operates on any form or combination of > electrical energy; > > (j) "electronic mail message" means any data generated by an > electronic system for a unique electronic mail address; > > (k) "electronic mail address" means a destination, commonly expressed > as a string of characters, consisting of a unique user or group name > or mailbox, commonly referred to as the local part, and a reference to > an internet or intranet domain, commonly referred to as the domain > part, whether or not displayed, to which an electronic mail message > can be sent or delivered or originated from and includes an electronic > mail address which may be permanent, dynamic or disposable; > > (1) "electronic system" means any electronic device or a group of > interconnected or related devices, one or more of which, pursuant to a > program or manual or any external instruction, performs automatic > processing of information or data and may also include a permanent, > removable or any other electronic storage medium; > > (m) "encrypted data" means data which has been transformed or > scrambled from its plain version or text to an unreadable or > incomprehensible format and is recoverable by an associated decryption > or decoding technique, regardless of the technique utilized for such > transformation or scrambling and irrespective of the medium in which > such data occurs or can be found for the purposes of protecting such > data; > > (n) "function" includes logic, control, arithmetic, deletion, storage > and retrieval and communication or telecommunication to, from or > within an electronic system; > > (o) "Interpol" means International Criminal Police Organization; > > (p) "offence" includes,- > > (i) an offence punishable under this Ordinance; > > (ii) an offence punishable under the laws mentioned in the Schedule ; or > > (iii) any other offence punishable under any other law for the time > being in force if committed through or by using any computer, > electronic system, electronic means or electronic device as a means or > tool; > > (q) "plain version" means original data before it has been > transformed or scrambled to an unreadable or incomprehensible format > or after it has been recovered by using any decryption or decoding > technique; > > (r) "rules" means rules made under this Ordinance; (s) "Schedule" means the > > Schedule to this Ordinance; > > (t) "sensitive electronic system" means an electronic system used > directly in connection with or necessary for,- > > (i) the security, defence or international relations of Pakistan; > > (ii) the existence or identity of a confidential source of > information relating to the enforcement of criminal law; > > (iii) the provision of services directly related to communications > infrastructure, banking and financial services, public utilities, > courts, public transportation, public key infrastructure, payment > systems infrastructure or e-commerce infrastructure ; > > (iv) the protection of public safety including systems related to > essential emergency services such as police, civil defence and medical > services ; > > (iv) the purpose declared as such by the Federal Government in > accordance with the prescribed procedure ; or > > (vi) containing any data or database protected as such, by any other laws. > > (u) "service provider" includes but not limited to ,- > > (i) a person acting as a service provider in relation to sending, > receiving, storing or processing of electronic communication or the > provision of other services in relation to electronic communication > through any electronic system; > > (ii) a person who owns, possesses, operates, manages or controls a > public switched network or provides telecommunication services; or > > (iii) any other person who processes or stores data on behalf of such > electronic communication service or users of such service; > > (v) "subscriber information" means any information contained in any > form that is held by a service provider, relating to subscriber's > services other'than traffic data and by which can be established,- > > (i) the type of communication service used, the technical provisions > taken thereto and the period of service; > > (ii) the subscriber's identity, postal geographic, "electronic mail > address, telephone and other access number, billing and payment > information, available on > > the basis of the service agreement or arrangement; or (iii) any other > information > > on the site of the installation of communication equipment, � > available on the basis of the service agreement or arrangement; > > (w) "traffic data" means any data relating to a communication by means > of an electronic system, generated by an electronic system that formed > a part in the chain of communication, indicating the > communication's origin, destination, route, time, date, size, > duration, or type of underlying service; > > (x) "Tribunal" means the Information and Communication Technologies > Tribunal constituted under section 31; and > > (y) "unauthorized access" means access of any kind by any person to > any electronic system or data held in an electronic system or > electronic device, without authority or in excess of authority, if he > is not himself entitled to control access of the kind in question to > the electronic system or electronic device, or data and he does not > have consent to such access from any person, so entitled. > > CHAPTER-II > > OFFENCES AND PUNISHMENTS > > 3. Criminal access .- Whoever intentionally gains unauthorized > access to the whole or any part of an electronic system or electronic > device with or without infringing security measures, shall be punished > with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to > two years, or with fine not exceeding three hundred thousand rupees, > or with both. > > 4. Criminal data access,- Whoever intentionally causes any > electronic system or electronic device to perform any function for the > purpose of gaining unauthorized access to any data held in any > electronic system or electronic device or on obtaining such > unauthorized access shall be punished with imprisonment of either > description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine > or with both. > > 5. Data damage.- Whoever with intent to illegal gain or cause > harm to the public or any person, damages any data shall be punished > with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to > three years, or with fine, or with both. > > Explanation .- For the purpose of this section the expression "data > damage" includes but not limited to modifying, altering, deleting, > deterioration, erasing, suppressing, changing location of data or > making data temporarily or permanently unavailable, halting electronic > system, choking the networks or affecting the reliability or > usefulness of data. > > 6. System damage.- Whoever with intent to cause damage to the public > or any person interferes with or interrupts or obstructs the > functioning, reliability or usefulness of an electronic system or > electronic device by inputting, transmitting, damaging, deleting, > altering, tempering, deteriorating or suppressing any data or services > or halting electronic system or choking the networks shall be punished > with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to > three years, or with fine or, with both. > > Explanation .- For the purpose of this section the expression > "services" include any kind of service provided through electronic > system. > > 7. Electronic fraud.- Whoever for wrongful gain interferes with or > uses any data, electronic system or electronic device or induces any > person to enter into a relationship or with intent to deceive any > person, which act or omission is likely to cause damage or harm to > that person or any other person shall be punished with imprisonment of > either description for a term which may extend to seven years, or with > fine, or with both. > > 8. Electronic forgery.- Whoever for wrongful gain interferes with > data, electronic system or electronic device, with intent to cause > damage or injury to the public or to any person, or to make any > illegal claim or title or to cause any person to part with property or > to enter into any express or implied contract, or with intent to > commit fraud by any input, alteration, deletion, or suppression of > data, resulting in unauthentic data with the intent that it be > considered or acted upon for legal purposes as if it were authentic, > regardless of the fact that the data is directly readable and > intelligible or not shall be punished with imprisonment of either > description for a term which may extend to seven years, or with fine > or with both. > > 9. Misuse of electronic system or electronic device.- (1) Whoever > produces, possesses, sells, procures, transports, imports, distributes > or otherwise makes available an electronic system or electronic > device, including a computer program, designed or adapted primarily > for the purpose of committing any of the offences established under > this Ordinance or a password, access code, or similar data by which > the whole or any part of an electronic system or electronic device is > capable of being accessed or its functionality compromised or reverse > engineered , with the intent that it be used for the purpose of > committing any of the offences established under this Ordinance, is > said to commit offence of misuse of electronic system or electronic > devices: > > Provided that the provisions of this section shall not apply to the > authorized testing or protection of an electronic system for any > lawful purpose. > > (2) Whoever commits the offence described in sub-section (1) shall > be punishable with imprisonment of either description for a term > which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both. > > 10. Unauthorized access to code.- Whoever discloses or obtains any > password, access as to code, system design or any other means of > gaining access to any electronic system or data with intent to obtain > wrongful gain, do reverse engineering or cause wrongful loss to any > person or for any other unlawful purpose shall be punished with > imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to > three years, or with fine, or with both. > > 11. Misuse of encryption.- Whoever for the purpose of commission of > an offence or concealment of incriminating evidence, knowingly and > willfully encrypts any incriminating communication or data contained > in electronic system relating to that crime or incriminating evidence, > commits the offence of misuse of encryption shall be punished with > imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to five > years, or with fine, or with both. > > 12. Malicious code.- (1) Whoever willfully writes, offers, makes > available, distributes or transmits malicious code through an > electronic system or electronic device, with intent to cause harm to > any electronic system or resulting in the corruption, destruction, > alteration, suppression, theft or loss of data commits the offence of > malicious code: > > Provided that the provision of this section shall not apply to the > authorized testing, research and development or protection of an > electronic system for any lawful purpose. > > Explanation,- For the purpose of this section the expression > "malicious code" includes but not limited to a computer program or a > hidden function in a program that damages data or compromises the > electronic system's performance or uses the electronic system > resources without proper authorization, with or without attaching its > copy to a file and is capable of spreading over electronic system with > or without human intervention including virus, worm or Trojan horse. > > (2) Whoever commits the offence specified in sub-section (1) shall be > punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may > extend to five years, or with fine or with both. > > 13. Cyber stalking.- (1) Whoever with intent to coerce , intimidate, > or harass any person uses computer, computer network, internet, > network site ,electronic mail or any other similar means of > communication to,- > > (a) communicate obscene, vulgar, profane, lewd, lascivious , or > indecent language, picture or image; > > (b) make any suggestion or proposal of an obscene nature; > > (c) threaten any illegal or immoral act; > > (d) take or distribute pictures or photographs of any person without > his consent or knowledge; or > > (e) display or distribute information in a manner that substantially > increases the risk of harm or violence to any other person, commits > the offence of cyber stalking. > > (2) Whoever commits the offence specified in sub-section (1) shall > be punishable with imprisonment of either description for a term which > may extend to seven years or with fine not exceeding three hundred > thousand rupees, or with both: > > Provided that if the victim of the cyber stalking under sub-section > (1) is a minor the punishment may extend to ten years or with fine not > less than one hundred thousand rupees, or with both. > > 14. Spamming.- (1) Whoever transmits harmful, fraudulent, misleading, > illegal or unsolicited electronic messages in bulk to any person > without the express permission of the recipient, or causes any > electronic system to show any such message or involves in falsified > online user account registration or falsified domain name registration > for commercial purpose commits the offence of spamming. (2) Whoever > commits the offence of spamming as described in sub-section (1) shall > be punishable with fine not exceeding fifty thousand rupees if he > commits this offence of spamming for the first time and for every > subsequent commission of offence of spamming he shall be punished with > imprisonment of three months or with fine, or with both. > > 15. Spoofing.(l) Whoever establishes a website, or sends an electronic > messagewith a counterfeit source intended to be believed by the > recipient or visitor or its electronic system to be an authentic > source with intent to gain unauthorized access or obtain valuable > information which later can be used for any unlawful purposes commits > the offence of spoofing. (2) Whoever commits the offence of > spoofing specified in sub-section (1) shall be punished with > imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to > three years, or with fine, or with both. > > 16. Unauthorized interception.- (1) Whoever without lawful authority > intercepts by technical means, transmissions of data to, from or > within an electronic system including electromagnetic emissions from > an electronic system carrying such data commits the offence of > unauthorized interception. (2) Whoever commits the offence of > unauthorized interception described in sub-section (1) shall be > punished with imprisonment of either description fora term which may > extend to five years, or with fine not exceeding five hundred thousand > rupees, or with both. > > 17. Cyber terrorism.- (1) Any person, group or organization who, with > terroristic intent utilizes, accesses or causes to be accessed a > computer or computer network or electronic system or electronic device > or by any available means, and thereby knowingly engages in or > attempts to engage in a terroristic act commits the offence of cyber > terrorism. > > Explanation l.- For the purposes of this section the expression > "terroristic intent" means to act with the purpose to alarm, frighten, > disrupt, harm, damage, or carry out an act of violence against any > segment of the population, the Government or entity associated > therewith. > > Explanation 2.- For the purposes of this section the expression > "terroristic act" includes, but is not limited to,- > > (a) altering by addition, deletion, or change or attempting to alter > information that may result in the imminent injury, sickness, or death > to any segment of the population; > > (b) transmission or attempted transmission of a harmful program with > the purpose of substantially disrupting or disabling any computer > network operated by the Government or any public entity; > > (c) aiding the commission of or attempting to aid the commission of > an act of violence against the sovereignty of Pakistan, whether or not > the commission of such act of violence is actually completed; or > > (d) stealing or copying, or attempting to steal or copy, or secure > classified information or data necessary to manufacture any form of > chemical, biological or nuclear weapon, or any other weapon of mass > destruction. > > (2) Whoever commits the offence of cyber terrorism and causes death > of anyperson shall be punishable with death or imprisonment for life, > and with fine and > > in any other case he shall be punishable with imprisonment of either > description for a term which may extend to ten years, or with fine not > less than ten-million rupees, or with both. > > 18. Enhanced punishment for offences involving sensitive electronic > systems.-(l) Whoever causes criminal access to any sensitive > electronic system in the course of the commission of any of the > offences established under this Ordinance shall, in addition to the > punishment prescribed for that offence, be punished with imprisonment > of either description for a term which may extend to ten years, or > with fine not exceeding one million rupees, or with both. (2) For > the purposes of any prosecution under this section, it shall be > presumed, until contrary is proved, that the accused had the requisite > knowledge that it was a sensitive electronic system. > > 19. Of abets, aids or attempts to commits offence .- (1) Any person > who knowingly and willfully abets the commission of or who aids to > commit or does any act preparatory to or in furtherance of the > commission of any offence under this Ordinance shall be guilty of that > offence and shall be liable on conviction to the punishment provided > for the offence. > > (2) Any person who attempts to commit an offence under this > Ordinance shall be punished for a term which may extend to one-half of > the longest term of imprisonment provided for that offence. > > Explanation.- For aiding or abetting an offence to be committed under > this section, it is immaterial whether the offence has been committed > or not. > > 20. Other offences.- Whoever commits any offence other than those > expressly provided under this Ordinance, with the help of computer > electronic system, electronic device or any other electronic means > shall be punished, in addition to the punishment provided for that > offence, with imprisonment of either description for a term which may > extend to two years, or with fine not exceeding two hundred thousand > rupees, or with both. > > 21. Offences by corporate body.- A corporate body shall be held liable > for an offence under this Ordinance if the offence is committed on its > instructions or for its benefit. The corporate body shall be punished > with fine not less than one hundred thousand rupees or the amount > involved in the offence whichever is the higher: > > Provided that such punishment shall not absolve the criminal liability > of the natural person who has committed the offence. > > Explanation.- For the purposes of this section corporate body, > includes a body of persons incorporated under any law such as trust, > waqf, an association, a statutory body or a company. > > CHAPTER-III > > PROSECUTION AND TRIAL OF OFFENCES > > 22. Offences to be compoundable and non-cognizable.- All offences > under this Ordinance shall be compoundable, non-cognizable and > bailable except the offences punishable with imprisonment for seven > years or more. > > 23. Prosecution and trial of offences.- (1) The Tribunal shall take > cognizance of and try any offence under this Ordinance . > > (2) In all matters with respect to which no procedure has been > provided in this Ordinance or the rules made thereunder, the > provisions of the Code shall, mutatis mutandis, apply for the trial. > > (3) All proceedings before the Tribunal shall be deemed to be > judicial proceedings within the meanings of sections 193 and 228 of > the Pakistan Penal Code, 1860 (XLV of 1860) and the Tribunal shall be > deemed to be a Court for the purposes of sections 480 and 482 of the > Code. > > 24. Order for payment of compensation.- The Tribunal may, on awarding > punishment of imprisonment or fine or both for commission of any > offence, make an order for payment of any compensation to the victim > for any damage caused to his electronic system or data by commission > of the offence and the compensation so awarded shall be recoverable as > arrears of land revenue: > > Provided that the compensation awarded by the Tribunal shall not > prejudice any right to a civil remedy for the recovery of damages > beyond the amount of compensation awarded. > > CHAPTER-IV > > ESTABLISHMENT OF INVESTIGATION AND PROSECUTION AGENCIES > > 25. Establishment of investigation agencies and prosecution.- The > Federal Government shall establish a specialized investigation and > prosecution cell within Federal Investigation Agency to investigate > and prosecute the offences under this Ordinance: > > Provided that till such time any agency is so established, the > investigation and prosecution of an offence shall be conducted in > accordance with the provisions of the Code: > > Provided further that any police officer investigating an offence > under this Ordinance may seek assistance of any special investigation > agency for any technical in-put, collection and preservation of > evidence. > > 26. Powers of officer.- (1) Subject to obtaining search warrant an > investigation officer shall be entitled to,- > > (a) have access to and inspect the operation of any electronic system; > > (b) use or cause to be used any such electronic system to search any > data contained in or available to such electronic system; > > (c) have access to or demand any information, code or technology > which has the capability of retransforming or unscrambling encrypted > data contained or available to such electronic system into readable > and comprehensible format or plain version; > > (d) require any person by whom or on whose behalf, the investigating > officer has reasonable cause to believe, any electronic system has > been used; > > (e) require any person having charge of, or otherwise concerned with > the operation of such electronic system to provide him reasonable > technical and other assistance as he may require for the purposes of > clauses (a), (b) and (c); and (f) require any person who is in > possession of decryption information of under investigation electronic > system , device or data to grant him access to such decryption > information necessary to decrypt data required for the purpose of > investigating any such offence. > > Explanation.- Decryption information means information or technology > that enables a person to readily retransform or unscramble encrypted > data from its unreadable and from cipher text to its plain text. > > (2) The police officer may, subject to the proviso, require a service > provider to submit subscriber information relating to such services in > respect of a person under investigation in that service provider's > possession or control necessary for the investigation of the offence: > > Provided that the investigating officer shall get prior permission to > investigate any service provider from the licensing authority where > prior permission of the licensing authority is required under any law > to investigate the licensed service provider. > > (3) Any person who obstructs the lawful exercise of the powers under > sub-sections (1) or (2) shall be liable to punishment with > imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to one > year, or with fine not exceeding one hundred thousand rupees, or with > both. > > 27. Real-time collection of traffic data.- (1) The Federal Government > may require a licensed service provider, within its existing or > required technical capability, to collect or record through the > application of technical means or to co-operate and assist any law > enforcement or intelligence agency in the collection or recording of > traffic data or data, in real-time, associated with specified > communications transmitted by means of an electronic system. (2) > The Federal Government may also require the service provider to keep > confidential the fact of the execution of any power provided for in > this section and any information relating to it. > > 28. Retention of traffic data,- (1) A service provider shall, within > its existing or required technical capability, retain its traffic data > minimum for a period of ninety days and provide that data to the > investigating agency or the > > investigating officer when required. The Federal Government may extend > the period to retain such date as and when deems appropriate. > > (2) The service providers shall retain the traffic data under > sub-section (1) by fulfilling all the requirements of data retention > and its originality as provided under sections 5 and 6 of the > Electronic Transaction Ordinance, 2002 (LI of 2002). > > (3) Any person who contravenes the provisions of this section shall > be punished with imprisonment for a term of six months, or with fine, > or with both. > > 29. Trans-border access.- For the purpose of investigation the > Federal Government or the investigation agency may, without the > permission of any foreign > > Government or international agency access publicly available > electronic system or data notwithstanding the geographically location > of such electronic system or data, or access or receive, through an > electronic system, data located in foreign country or territory, if it > obtains the lawful and voluntary consent of the person who has the > lawful authority to disclose it: > > Provided that such access is not prohibited under the law of the > foreign Government or the international agency: > > Provided further that the investigating agency shall inform in writing > the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Government of Pakistan and other > relevant agencies as the case may be about the investigation conducted > under this section. > > CHAPTER - V > > INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION > > 30. International cooperation.- (1) The Federal Government may > cooperate with any foreign Government, Interpol or any other > international agency with whom > > it has, or establishes, reciprocal arrangements for the purposes of > investigations or proceedings concerning offences related to > electronic system and data, or for the collection of evidence in > electronic form of an offence or obtaining expeditious preservation > and disclosure of traffic data or data by means of an electronic > system or real-time collection of traffic data associated with > specified communications or interception of data. > > (2) The Federal Government may, without prior request, forward to > such foreign Government, Interpol or other international agency, any > information obtained from its own investigations if it considers that > the disclosure of such > > information might assist the other Government or agency in initiating > or carrying out investigations or proceedings concerning any offence. > > (3) The Federal Government may require the foreign Government, > Interpol or other international agency to keep the information > provided confidential or use it subject to some conditions. > > (4) The investigating agency shall, subject to approval of the > Federal Government, be responsible for sending and answering requests > for mutual assistance, the execution of such requests or their > transmission to the authorities competent for their execution. > > (5) The Federal Government may refuse to accede to any request made > by such foreign Government, Interpol or international agency if the > request concerns an offence which is likely to prejudice its > sovereignty, security, public order or other essential interests. > > (6) The Federal Government may postpone action on a request if such > action would prejudice investigations of proceedings conducted by its > investigation agency. > > Chapter - VI > > INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGIES TRIBUNAL > > 31. Information and Communication Technologies Tribunal .- (1) As soon > as possible after the commencement of this Ordinance , the Federal > Government shall, by notification in the official Gazette, constitute > the Information and Communication Technologies Tribunal whose > principal seat shall be at Islamabad. > > (2) The Tribunal may hold its sittings at such place or places as the > Federal Government may decide. > > (3) The Tribunal shall consist of a chairman and as many members as > the Federal Government may determine but not more than seven members. > > (4) The Chairman may constitute Benches of the Tribunal and unless > otherwise directed by him a Bench shall consist of not less than two > members. A Bench shall exercise such powers and discharge such > functions as may be prescribed. There shall be established at least > one Bench in each province. > > (5) The Federal Government shall appoint the Chairman and members of > the Tribunal. > > 32. Qualifications for appointment.- (1) A person shall not be > qualified for appointment as Chairman unless he is, or has been, or is > qualified for appointment as a judge of a High Court. > > (2) A person shall not be qualified for appointment as a member unless he - > > (a) has for two years served as a District and Sessions Judge; > > (b) has for a period of not less than ten years been an advocate of a > High Court; or > > (c) has special knowledge of legislation and professional experience > of not less than ten years in the field of telecommunication and > information technologies. > > 33. Salary, allowances and other terms and conditions of services.- > The salary, allowances, privileges and the other terms and conditions > of service of the Chairman and members of the Tribunal shall be such > as the Federal Government may, by notification in official Gazette, > determine. > > 34. Resignation and removal.- (1) The Chairman or a member of the > Tribunal may, by writing under his hand addressed to the Federal > Government, resign his office: > > Provided that the Chairman or a member shall, unless he is permitted > by the Federal Government to relinquish his office sooner, continue to > hold office until the expiry of three months from the date of receipt > of such resignation or until a person duly appointed as his successor > enters upon his office whichever is earlier. > > (2) The Chairman or a member of the Tribunal shall not be removed > from his office before expiry of the term determined under section 33, > by the Federal Government except as may be prescribed. > > (3) The Federal Government may, by rules, regulate the procedure for > the investigation of misconduct or physical or mental incapacity of > the Chairman and a member of the Tribunal. > > 35. Saving Tribunal's proceedings.- No act or proceedings of the > Tribunal shall be called in question in any manner on the ground > merely of any defeat in the constitution of the Tribunal. > > 36. Employees of the Tribunal.- (1) The Federal Government shall > provide the Tribunal with such employees as the Government may deem > appropriate in consultation with the Chairman of the Tribunal. > > (2) The employees of the Tribunal shall perform their duties > under general superintendence of the Chairman of the Tribunal. > > (3) The salaries, allowances and other conditions of service of the > employees of the Tribunal shall be such as may be prescribed by the > Federal Government. > > 37. Right to legal representation.- The parties in appeal may > either appear in person or authorize one or more legal practitioners, > and in case of a corporate body any of its officers, to present the > case before the Tribunal. > > 38. Amicus curiae. - (1) The Tribunal may, if it so requires, be > assisted in technical aspects in any case by an amicus curiae having > knowledge and experience in information communication technologies, > finance and economics. > > (2) The Federal Government shall maintain a list of amicus > curiae having relevant qualifications and experience. > > (3) The Tribunal in consultation with the Federal Government shall > determine the remuneration of the amicus curiae and the Tribunal may > decide the party or parties to pay such remuneration, keeping in view > the circumstances of each case. > > 39. Procedure and powers of Tribunal.- (1) Subject to the provisions > of this Ordinance and the rules made thereunder, the Tribunal,-- > > ' > > (i) may, where it deems necessary, apply the procedures as provided > in the Code or, as the case may be, in the Code of Civil Procedure, > 1908 (Act V of 1908); > > (ii) in the exercise of its civil jurisdiction, shall have powers > vested in the civil court under the Code of Civil Procedure, 1908; and > > (iii) in the exercise of its criminal jurisdiction, shall have the > same powers as are vested in the Court of Session under the Code. > > 40. Appeal to Tribunals.- (1) Any person aggrieved by any of the > following orders may, within fifteen days from the date of such order, > prefer an appeal to the Tribunal, namely :-- > > (a) any decision of the Authority; or > > (b) any decision of the Electronic Certification Accreditation Council: > > Provided that no appeal shall lie to the Tribunal from an order passed > by the Authority or the Electronic Certification Accreditation Council > with the consent of the parties. > > (2) Any appeal against a decision of the Authority shall be > accompanied by a court fee,- > > (a) ten thousand rupees where the valuation of the subject matter in > issue is not more than five million rupees; > > (b) fifty thousand rupees where the valuation of the subject matter > in issue is more than five million rupees but not more than ten > million rupees; and > > (c) one hundred thousand rupees where the valuation of the subject > matter in issue is more than ten million rupees. if, > > (3) The appeal filed before the Tribunal under sub-section (1) shall > be dealt with by it as expeditiously as possible and the Tribunal > shall dispose of the appeal finally within ninety days from the date > of receipt of the appeal. > > 41. Powers of Tribunal.- The Tribunal while hearing an appeal under > section 40 shall have all the powers as are vested in the court of > first appeal under the Code in exercise of its civil jurisdiction in > respect of appeal against any decision or order of the Authority or > the Electronic Certification Accreditation Council, > > 42. Limitation".- The provisions of the Limitation Act, 1908 (IX of > 1908), shall, mutatis mutandis , apply to the proceedings of Tribunal. > 43. Appeal to High Court. - (1) Any person aggrieved by - > > (1) any decision or order of the Tribunal made under section 40 may > prefer second appeal to the respective High Court within thirty days > from the date of the decision or order of the Tribunal: > > Provided that appeal under this clause shall lie only if the High > Court grants leave to appeal; > > (ii) an order of conviction passed by the Tribunal in respect of > any offence under this Ordinance may prefer an appeal to the > respective High Court within thirty days of the decision or order of > the Tribunal. > > (2) An appeal against an order of the Tribunal under section 40 or an > order of sentence exceeding ten years shall be heard by the Division > Bench of the High Court. > > 44. Civil court not to have jurisdiction.- No court shall have > jurisdiction to entertain any suit or proceeding in respect of any > matter which the Tribunal constituted under this Ordinance is > empowered by or under this Ordinance to determine and no injunction > shall be granted by any court or other authority in respect of any > action taken or to betaken in pursuance of any power conferred by or > under this Ordinance. > > 45. Transitory proceedings.- (1) Until the establishment of > the Tribunal all cases, proceedings and appeals, subject matter of > which is within jurisdiction of the Tribunal, shall continue to be > heard and decided by the competent forum existing under any law for > the time being in force. > > (2) On the constitution of the Tribunal all cases, proceedings and > appeals shall stand transferred to and be heard and disposed of by the > Tribunal. > > (3) On transfer of cases, proceedings and appeals under sub-section > (2), the Tribunal shall proceed from the stage the proceedings had > reached immediately prior to the transfer and shall not be bound to > recall any witness or again record any evidence mat may have been > recalled. > > CHAPTER - VII MISCELLANEOUS > > 46. Ordinance to override other laws.- The provisions of this > Ordinance shall have effect notwithstanding anything to the contrary > contained in any other law for the time being in force. > > 47. Power to amend Schedule.- The Federal Government may. by > notification in the official Gazette, amend the Schedule so as to add > any entry thereto or modify or omit any entry therein. > > 48. Powers to make rules. - (1) The Federal Government may , > by notification in the official Gazette, make rules for carrying out > purposes of the Tribunal. > > 49. Removal of difficulties. - If any difficulty arises in > giving effect to the provisions of this Ordinance, the Federal > Government may, by order published in the official Gazette , make such > provisions not inconsistent with the provisions of this Ordinance as > may appear to be necessary for removing the difficulty. > > THE FIRST SCHEDULE > > (See section 2(p)(ii)) > > 1. The Electronic Transactions Ordinance, 2002 (LI of 2002). > > 2. The Pakistan Telecommunication (Re-organization) Act, 1996 (XVII > > of 1996). > > 3. The Telegraph Act, 1885 (XIII of 1885). > > 4. The Wireless Telegraphy Act, 1933 (XVII of 1933). > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barak ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Fri Nov 7 04:14:11 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:14:11 +0100 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: References: <20081106121001.C015DE3180@smtp3.electricembers.net> <1EBDB6C0-5D22-44C4-8E7B-B72892451776@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: <39A033FD-A893-4CF6-B207-BF0A1AA322F6@graduateinstitute.ch> Hi Sivasubramanian, I don't know if the government monitors this list. But when I wrote to Dr. Govind I described the sorts of problems people were experiencing around the world (reported here and elsewhere) and got the impression that only the MAG list discussion of problems was on the radar. So I'm not sure I'd recommend people bringing their problems to this list in the hope the government will read it and take action. Since he's listed on a public website as being available to help, I'd think it more efficient for anyone having trouble to reach out to him directly. Best, Bill On Nov 6, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > > Hello William Drake, > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:04 PM, William Drake > wrote: > Hi, > > Glad to know that he has publicly offered to help. Markus gave me > his details but I didn't know he was open to any and all > inquiries. For most people this really shouldn't be necessary, the > IGF registration and invite letter on the web is supposed to > suffice, but it may be that people from some particular countries > or whatever need more targeted assistance. > > > This thread "Visas for India" is likely to be on the watch list of > the Government of India as it has acted on the earlier issues > raised in this thread. Anyone from any country in need of "more > targeted assistance" could perhaps come to this thread and bring it > up here for possible immediate attention by the Ministry of > Information Technology and the Ministry of External Affairs (VISA > issues are universal - every country's visa practices have some > imperfection or another, so > a discussion on India VISA issues might not be considered an > embarrassment). > > Also, as could be inferred from Parminder's message on what to do > if the registration form does not work, Dr Govind would be in a > position to pay specific attention to these issues. Such cases that > require "more targeted assistance" could also be brought to the > notice of Dr Govind at drgovind at nic dot in . > > This is just a guess that I am making with not much a direct > connection to have authentic information about how it all works. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > Best, > > Bill > > On Nov 6, 2008, at 1:09 PM, Parminder wrote: > >> As per MAG discussions and also IGF website FAQs (new addition) if >> the IGF registration does not work, one has to write to Dr Govind >> at drgovind[at]nic.in. To quote 'you will need to provide your >> full name, nationality, profession and passport number'. >> >> >> Parminder >> >> >> From: karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:39 PM >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; William Drake; >> governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder >> Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? >> >> >> hi bill >> >> Who did the letter for you? >> >> karen >> >> At 19:51 03/11/2008, William Drake wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >> I went today and was told all is in order and I can pick up >> tomorrow. The interventions from Markus, Shanker/MAG, and folks here >> seem to have made a difference. However, I was still asked to bring >> an invite letter from the government, which I had, but shouldn't have >> needed. I hope more consulates will read the fax correctly, that >> registration alone is sufficient. >> >> Bill >> >> On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Parminder wrote: >> >> >> >> >> The enclosed Govt of India's fax to all its missions abroad >> requesting >> gratis visa to be granted to all registered IGF participants is now >> posted >> at http://igf2008.in/Travel.aspx. >> >> Parminder >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roland Perry [ mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com] >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:02 PM >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >> Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? >> >> In message >> , at >> 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy >> writes >> >> >> As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of >> India >> to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of >> Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think >> the >> Visa issue stands resolved." >> >> The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure >> that >> participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to >> attend >> the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps >> taken >> by GOI on this issue to take effe >> >> >> Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian >> Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the >> "instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the >> host >> country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements >> including the status of the registration confirmation as an >> invitation. >> -- >> Roland Perry >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Fri Nov 7 04:42:20 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 15:12:20 +0530 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: <39A033FD-A893-4CF6-B207-BF0A1AA322F6@graduateinstitute.ch> References: <20081106121001.C015DE3180@smtp3.electricembers.net> <1EBDB6C0-5D22-44C4-8E7B-B72892451776@graduateinstitute.ch> <39A033FD-A893-4CF6-B207-BF0A1AA322F6@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: Hello William Drake, I did not notice that Dr Govind's name and contact info was listed in the public web. Yes, it is more appropriate for any one to contact him directly. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 2:44 PM, William Drake wrote: > Hi Sivasubramanian, > I don't know if the government monitors this list. But when I wrote to Dr. > Govind I described the sorts of problems people were experiencing around the > world (reported here and elsewhere) and got the impression that only the MAG > list discussion of problems was on the radar. So I'm not sure I'd recommend > people bringing their problems to this list in the hope the government will > read it and take action. Since he's listed on a public website as being > available to help, I'd think it more efficient for anyone having trouble to > reach out to him directly. > > Best, > > Bill > > On Nov 6, 2008, at 3:57 PM, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > > > Hello William Drake, > > On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 8:04 PM, William Drake < > william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch> wrote: > >> Hi, >> Glad to know that he has publicly offered to help. Markus gave me his >> details but I didn't know he was open to any and all inquiries. For most >> people this really shouldn't be necessary, the IGF registration and invite >> letter on the web is supposed to suffice, but it may be that people from >> some particular countries or whatever need more targeted assistance. >> > > > This thread "Visas for India" is likely to be on the watch list of the > Government of India as it has acted on the earlier issues raised in this > thread. Anyone from any country in need of "more targeted assistance" could > perhaps come to this thread and bring it up here for possible immediate > attention by the Ministry of Information Technology and the Ministry of > External Affairs (VISA issues are universal - every country's visa practices > have some imperfection or another, so > a discussion on India VISA issues might not be considered an > embarrassment). > > Also, as could be inferred from Parminder's message on what to do if the > registration form does not work, Dr Govind would be in a position to pay > specific attention to these issues. Such cases that require "more targeted > assistance" could also be brought to the notice of Dr Govind at drgovind at > nic dot in . > > This is just a guess that I am making with not much a direct connection to > have authentic information about how it all works. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > >> Best, >> >> Bill >> >> On Nov 6, 2008, at 1:09 PM, Parminder wrote: >> >> As per MAG discussions and also IGF website FAQs (new addition) if the IGF >> registration does not work, one has to write to Dr Govind at drgovind[at] >> nic.in. To quote 'you will need to provide your full name, nationality, >> profession and passport number'. >> >> >> Parminder >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org ] >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 04, 2008 3:39 PM >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; William Drake; governance at lists.cpsr.org; >> Parminder >> *Subject:* Re: [governance] visas for india? >> >> >> hi bill >> >> Who did the letter for you? >> >> karen >> >> At 19:51 03/11/2008, William Drake wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I went today and was told all is in order and I can pick up >> tomorrow. The interventions from Markus, Shanker/MAG, and folks here >> seem to have made a difference. However, I was still asked to bring >> an invite letter from the government, which I had, but shouldn't have >> needed. I hope more consulates will read the fax correctly, that >> registration alone is sufficient. >> >> Bill >> >> On Nov 3, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Parminder wrote: >> >> >> >> The enclosed Govt of India's fax to all its missions abroad requesting >> gratis visa to be granted to all registered IGF participants is now >> posted >> at http://igf2008.in/Travel.aspx. >> >> Parminder >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roland Perry [ mailto:roland at internetpolicyagency.com >> ] >> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:02 PM >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >> Subject: Re: [governance] visas for india? >> >> In message >> , at >> 04:04:48 on Sat, 1 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy >> writes >> >> As a person living in India, I sent a note to the Government of >> India >> to take note of this discussion four days ago and the Ministry of >> Information Technology was prompt to send a reply to say "I think >> the >> Visa issue stands resolved." >> >> The Government of India might already have taken steps to ensure >> that >> participants do not have problems with VISAs to visit India to >> attend >> the IGF. Perhaps it takes just a little more time for the steps >> taken >> by GOI on this issue to take effe >> >> >> Thank you for your efforts, and those of the organisers and Indian >> Government, in this regard. I understand that a copy of the >> "instructions to Indian Missions Abroad" will be available on the >> host >> country website soon, which will confirm the gratis-Visa arrangements >> including the status of the registration confirmation as an >> invitation. >> -- >> Roland Perry >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Sat Nov 8 10:02:00 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 16:02:00 +0100 Subject: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo References: <188A1944-9FC1-4560-BF75-0473A8A3C1CB@datos-personales.org> <646E3816B98F1144812F31E1BDA0229739E7D6AC47@DC-V115.consumerfocus.local> <7C36FCE3-CC3D-4E08-96CC-F2FC19FD1E92@eff.org> <1226063972.25368.26.camel@anriette-laptop> <006601c940e4$8ee7b200$ce777a89@crllt.ad.uottawa.ca> <491453EC.5040604@wzb.eu> <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9F4F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842647F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Dear friends find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ICANN Cairo.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 68096 bytes Desc: ICANN Cairo.doc URL: From parminder at itforchange.net Sat Nov 8 11:25:55 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 21:55:55 +0530 Subject: [governance] workshops on rights based approach to the Internet Message-ID: <20081108162617.48DDC67827@smtp1.electricembers.net> IGC in a recent input had proposed that 'rights and the Internet' remain a key focus of the IGF. Apart from the workshop "Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach' - (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=66) sponsored by the IGC, there are a few more workshops that looks at IG issues form a rights angle. Dynamic Coalition on Bill of Right's - Mainstreaming human rights in the work of the IGF (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=53 ) Council of Europe's open forum - "The human rights dimension of Internet" (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=141 ) UNESCO's - Freedom of Expression in cyberspace: Internet Filtering and Censorship (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=133 ) There is also the meeting of the Dynamic Coalition on Bill of Rights mentioned in the official program. We need to see how we can use these workshops and other possible strategies to possibly built some kind of momentum for our effort to get 'right and the Internet' as the overall theme for the next IGF. If we are to have any chance of success we need to start mobilizing support now. We need to build a solid constituency around this idea. It may also be noteworthy that IGC's and DC on Bill of Right's (along with some other organizations') call for making 'rights and the Internet' as the overarching theme of the next IGF finds prominent mention in the Synthesis paper for IGF Hyderabad , which is a kind of official conference paper for the meeting. (see http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/sec_papers_08/IGF.SynthesisPaper.Final.30.10. 2008.pdf ) Parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sat Nov 8 11:00:54 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 21:30:54 +0530 Subject: [governance] Discussion on 'enhanced cooperation' at the IGF hyderabad Message-ID: <20081108160109.8734B6782B@smtp1.electricembers.net> Hi All This is to draw your attention to IGC's contribution to Feb 2008 consultations of the MAG on substantive agenda for IGF, 2008. (enclosed, and also can be found in the list of contributions on the IGF website at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/index.php/prepprocess/prepmeetings . We had sought a discussion on Enhanced cooperation at IGF, 2008. To quote our submission "Enhanced Cooperation - What Was Meant By the Tunis Agenda, and What Is the Status of It " "Tunis Agenda speaks of the need for 'enhanced cooperation' for global Internet policy making. There are different views about what exactly is meant by this term, and what processes will/ can constitute 'enhanced cooperation'. IGF is the right forum to deliberate on the meaning and possibilities of this term, through wide participation of all stakeholders in the multi-stakeholder spirit of the WSIS. It is quite possible that such an open discussion pushes the process of 'enhanced cooperation' forward, which at present seems to be caught in a kind of a limbo, or at least some degree of confusion." The good news is that such a discussion will be taken up in a plenary session on the December 5th from 1100 to 1230 and later in the plenary open discussion in the afternoon. See http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/main_managing_criticalIR.html for details for this session. To (part) quote from the description "The panel will engage in a lively session exploring the meaning and possibilities of the term enhanced cooperation, including a discussion of the progress and results of the United Nations recent request for reports on enhanced cooperation from selected global organizations. " "There will be a focus on four questions: (1) what do different actors mean and understand by the term enhanced cooperation? (2) what are your experiences with the state of enhanced cooperation in Internet governance in your field? (3) What do you believe should be the direction of enhanced cooperation going forward and your vision for the future? (4) what further steps are needed to create enhanced cooperation, if any?" Apparently, we got in almost all of what we wanted to be discussed. Parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IGC - Main themes for IGF Hyd(3).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 14640 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sat Nov 8 10:28:53 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:58:53 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGC workshops at the IGF, Hyderabad Message-ID: <20081108152905.6A984A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> Hi All The final program of the three workshops sponsored by the IGC for IGF, Hyderabad, is now ready. The three workshops are 1) The role and mandate of the IGF, December 6th 9 to 1030, ( http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=71 ) 2) The Transboundary Internet: Jurisdiction, Control and Sovereignty, December 4th, 16 to 1730 (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=63 ) 3) Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach, on December 6th, 11:30 - 13:00, See details of the workshop at (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=66 ) Apart for these, IGC is also co-sponsoring the workshop on The Future of ICANN: After the JPA, What? December 4th, 11- 1230 (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=9 ) Thanks to the IGC working groups who worked hard to organize these workshops. IGC members who wish to give comments on the subjects of the above workshops may do so, and it is expected that the IGC participants in these workshops will take note of them. Parminder PS : The full IGF program can be seen at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/hyderabad_prog/Workshop_Schedule.htm . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sat Nov 8 11:09:21 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 21:39:21 +0530 Subject: [governance] other issues for IGC's document of substantive agenda for the IGF Message-ID: <20081108160929.70D146783E@smtp1.electricembers.net> On other three issues that IGC wanted highlighted in IGF, Hyderabad, one can point to a couple of workshops that seem to cover them. On 'Development Agenda for IG' - A Development Agenda for Internet Governance: From Principle to Practice (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=15 ) On "Transparency and Inclusive Participation in Internet Governance' - Towards a code of good practice on public participation in Internet governance - Building on the principles of WSIS and the Aarhus Convention (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=98 ) And on "Network Neutrality' - Network Neutrality - Examining the Issues and Implications for Development ( http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=67 ) All of these have IGC members as key organizers. Parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 7 22:01:26 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2008 19:01:26 -0800 Subject: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo References: <188A1944-9FC1-4560-BF75-0473A8A3C1CB@datos-personales.org> <646E3816B98F1144812F31E1BDA0229739E7D6AC47@DC-V115.consumerfocus.local> <7C36FCE3-CC3D-4E08-96CC-F2FC19FD1E92@eff.org> <1226063972.25368.26.camel@anriette-laptop> <006601c940e4$8ee7b200$ce777a89@crllt.ad.uottawa.ca> <491453EC.5040604@wzb.eu> <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9F4F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842647F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <49150106.108E86EA@ix.netcom.com> Wolfgang and all, Will do again. After my and some of our members first reading, the concept being streniously suggested in "multistakeholderism" is one that has been around within ICANN and amongst various stakeholder groups, sense 1999. So not much reall all that new presented. Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > Dear friends > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > Wolfgang > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: ICANN Cairo.doc > ICANN Cairo.doc Type: WINWORD File (application/msword) > Encoding: base64 > Description: ICANN Cairo.doc Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From muguet at mdpi.net Sat Nov 8 23:43:59 2008 From: muguet at mdpi.net (Dr. Francis MUGUET) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 05:43:59 +0100 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?ITU_and_ICANN_=E2=80=93_a_loveless_forced_marriage____?= =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_[governance]?= ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842647F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <188A1944-9FC1-4560-BF75-0473A8A3C1CB@datos-personales.org> <646E3816B98F1144812F31E1BDA0229739E7D6AC47@DC-V115.consumerfocus.local> <7C36FCE3-CC3D-4E08-96CC-F2FC19FD1E92@eff.org> <1226063972.25368.26.camel@anriette-laptop> <006601c940e4$8ee7b200$ce777a89@crllt.ad.uottawa.ca> <491453EC.5040604@wzb.eu> <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9F4F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842647F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <49166A8F.70301@mdpi.net> Dear Wolfgang Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably about the IGF. The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone./ Best Francis --------------------------------- http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 7 November 2008, 12:30 ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1]* (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to prevent it." In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child protection online. Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its *Cybersecurity Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the *World Summit on the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the *Internet Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival event. Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within both models. (/Monika Ermert/) (*lghp[9]*) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *URL of this Article:* http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 *Links in this Article:* [1] http://www.itu.int/ [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > Dear friends > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > Wolfgang > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ITU-at-ICANN-Cairo.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 80089 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Sun Nov 9 00:32:00 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 16:32:00 +1100 Subject: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: <49166A8F.70301@mdpi.net> Message-ID: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Dear Wolfgang Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably about the IGF. The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. Best Francis --------------------------------- http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 7 November 2008, 12:30 ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to prevent it." In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child protection online. Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival event. Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within both models. (Monika Ermert) (lghp[9]) _____ size=2 width="100%" align=center> URL of this Article: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 Links in this Article: [1] http://www.itu.int/ [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-beh ind-IPv6--/110960 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk Dear friends find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 8 03:37:35 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:37:35 -0800 Subject: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo References: <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <49154FCF.C0BC2A88@ix.netcom.com> Parminder and all, Frankly for the many years that I have been involved, I have never seen any marriage, let alone loveless, between ICANN and the ITU. Certainly the ITU is a significant standards organization that has more or less influence on IT. Yet it remains much maligned for many of it's practices and is certainly not always friendly with the IETF, which is the stated "Right Arm" of ICANN. Hence, I admit to bafflement in respect to this subject area... Parminder wrote: > >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically > sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take > offence?) > > Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. > > Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society’s > best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively > representative of people and groups across the world, and still has > been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the > one side and corporate control on the other. > > However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, > have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the > IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some > substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group > (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and > giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. > > I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this > issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be > taken in view of current and emergent realities. > > It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of > being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real > importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in > terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a > review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to > engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review > is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process > of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, > Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some > important implications for this review. > > Parminder > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On > Behalf Of Ian Peter > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' > Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: > [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion > that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding > issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > > Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically > sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take > offence?) > > My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing > the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation > or globalisation? Take your pick . > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > > Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 > To:governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] > ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > Dear Wolfgang > > Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably > about the IGF. > > The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > > Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in > the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the > result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally > believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the > topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address > issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I > should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each > other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, > which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, > ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and > the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, > "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. > > Best Francis > > --------------------------------- > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 > 7 November 2008, 12:30 > > ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage > > ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better > collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] > (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] > (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each > other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on > Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the > two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to > love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately > condemned to a "forced marriage". > > Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare > the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made > it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as > playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion > of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's > Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. > > The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which > has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the > quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further > statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré > repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According > to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to > prevent it." > > In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to > the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, > include the internationalisation of domains, something with which > ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation > for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the > fight against online terrorism and child protection online. > > Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global > regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear > boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he > underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity > Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight > against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the > controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one > country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it > differently," said Touré. > > Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed > doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members > from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. > Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on > the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU > auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil > society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than > demonstrating outside. > > In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet > Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I > am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round > in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste > of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet > policy next year as a rival event. > > Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work > performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory > Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was > directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory > Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If > someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The > ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré > forthrightly. > > In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian > government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and > the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian > diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted > that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political > models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the > ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, > whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, > he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested > parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and > disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within > both models. > > (Monika Ermert) > > (lghp[9]) > > > > URL of this Article: > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > > Links in this Article: > [1] http://www.itu.int/ > [2] http://www.icann.org > [3] > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > > [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > > > > > Dear friends > > > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > > > Wolfgang > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > -- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Nov 9 01:25:44 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:55:44 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <358CFDD681344C60825CD8E05725D3CF@IAN> Message-ID: <20081109062555.8DB4EE049D@smtp3.electricembers.net> Ian After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be attending. I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. Parminder _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder' Subject: RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before pressing send. That was meant to be offlist . Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to discuss in any case. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:14 To: 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder' Subject: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Hi Parminder, Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something like that seems important). I’ll respond but will be interested to see what others say first. On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release names periodically as they are received and certainly before Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I think that might be the way to get the best field. All the best, Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 16:51 To: 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Subject: RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively representative of people and groups across the world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on the other. However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. Parminder _____ From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of Ian Peter Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Dear Wolfgang Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably about the IGF. The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. Best Francis --------------------------------- http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 7 November 2008, 12:30 ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to prevent it." In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child protection online. Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival event. Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within both models. (Monika Ermert) (lghp[9])
URL of this Article: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 Links in this Article: [1] http://www.itu.int/ [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-beh ind-IPv6--/110960 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk Dear friends find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Sun Nov 9 01:13:32 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 17:13:32 +1100 Subject: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Hi Parminder, Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something like that seems important). I’ll respond but will be interested to see what others say first. On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release names periodically as they are received and certainly before Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I think that might be the way to get the best field. All the best, Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 16:51 To: 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Subject: RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively representative of people and groups across the world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on the other. However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. Parminder _____ From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of Ian Peter Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Dear Wolfgang Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably about the IGF. The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. Best Francis --------------------------------- http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 7 November 2008, 12:30 ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to prevent it." In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child protection online. Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival event. Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within both models. (Monika Ermert) (lghp[9])
URL of this Article: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 Links in this Article: [1] http://www.itu.int/ [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-beh ind-IPv6--/110960 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk Dear friends find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Sun Nov 9 01:32:53 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 17:32:53 +1100 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <20081109062555.8DB4EE049D@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <6291ADF4D1A54FC98C270B3439F5DE24@IAN> Either date works for me – early evening to allow those who want to take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Ian After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be attending. I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. Parminder _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder' Subject: RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before pressing send. That was meant to be offlist . Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to discuss in any case. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:14 To: 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder' Subject: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Hi Parminder, Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something like that seems important). I’ll respond but will be interested to see what others say first. On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release names periodically as they are received and certainly before Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I think that might be the way to get the best field. All the best, Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 16:51 To: 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Subject: RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively representative of people and groups across the world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on the other. However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. Parminder _____ From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of Ian Peter Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Dear Wolfgang Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably about the IGF. The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. Best Francis --------------------------------- http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 7 November 2008, 12:30 ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to prevent it." In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child protection online. Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival event. Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within both models. (Monika Ermert) (lghp[9])
URL of this Article: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 Links in this Article: [1] http://www.itu.int/ [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-beh ind-IPv6--/110960 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk Dear friends find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Nov 9 00:50:41 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 11:20:41 +0530 Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> Message-ID: <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively representative of people and groups across the world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on the other. However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. Parminder _____ From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of Ian Peter Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Dear Wolfgang Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably about the IGF. The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. Best Francis --------------------------------- http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 7 November 2008, 12:30 ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to prevent it." In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child protection online. Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival event. Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within both models. (Monika Ermert) (lghp[9])
URL of this Article: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 Links in this Article: [1] http://www.itu.int/ [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-beh ind-IPv6--/110960 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk Dear friends find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Sun Nov 9 01:17:07 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 17:17:07 +1100 Subject: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Message-ID: <358CFDD681344C60825CD8E05725D3CF@IAN> Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before pressing send. That was meant to be offlist . Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to discuss in any case. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:14 To: 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder' Subject: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Hi Parminder, Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something like that seems important). I’ll respond but will be interested to see what others say first. On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release names periodically as they are received and certainly before Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I think that might be the way to get the best field. All the best, Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 16:51 To: 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Subject: RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively representative of people and groups across the world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on the other. However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. Parminder _____ From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of Ian Peter Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Dear Wolfgang Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably about the IGF. The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. Best Francis --------------------------------- http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 7 November 2008, 12:30 ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to prevent it." In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child protection online. Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival event. Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within both models. (Monika Ermert) (lghp[9])
URL of this Article: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 Links in this Article: [1] http://www.itu.int/ [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-beh ind-IPv6--/110960 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk Dear friends find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 8 03:45:32 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 00:45:32 -0800 Subject: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> Message-ID: <491551AB.22CDB214@ix.netcom.com> Ian and all, Not to rain on anyone's parade, the Balkanization is already in play, vis a vis China for instance. The hill to climb now is to dissuade Balkanized states from continuing to be so. So my fear is that first such is not recognized which seems to be true given your remarks below, and second that Balkanized states have little interest or incentive to be dissuaded at this late date. Ian Peter wrote: > The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion > that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding > issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > > Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically > sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take > offence?) > > My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing > the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation > or globalisation? Take your pick . > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > > Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 > To:governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] > ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > Dear Wolfgang > > Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably > about the IGF. > > The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > > Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in > the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the > result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally > believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the > topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address > issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I > should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each > other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, > which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, > ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and > the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, > "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. > > Best Francis > > --------------------------------- > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 > 7 November 2008, 12:30 > > ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage > > ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better > collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] > (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] > (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each > other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on > Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the > two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to > love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately > condemned to a "forced marriage". > > Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare > the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made > it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as > playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion > of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's > Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. > > The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which > has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the > quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further > statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré > repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According > to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to > prevent it." > > In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to > the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, > include the internationalisation of domains, something with which > ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation > for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the > fight against online terrorism and child protection online. > > Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global > regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear > boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he > underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity > Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight > against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the > controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one > country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it > differently," said Touré. > > Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed > doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members > from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. > Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on > the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU > auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil > society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than > demonstrating outside. > > In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet > Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I > am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round > in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste > of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet > policy next year as a rival event. > > Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work > performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory > Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was > directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory > Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If > someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The > ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré > forthrightly. > > In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian > government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and > the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian > diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted > that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political > models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the > ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, > whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, > he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested > parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and > disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within > both models. > > (Monika Ermert) > > (lghp[9]) > size=2 width="100%" align=center> > URL of this Article: > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > > Links in this Article: > [1] http://www.itu.int/ > [2] http://www.icann.org > [3] > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > > [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > > > > > > Dear friends > > > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > > > Wolfgang > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Nov 9 02:08:51 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 12:38:51 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <6291ADF4D1A54FC98C270B3439F5DE24@IAN> Message-ID: <20081109070901.12C69A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other than at IGFs. _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Either date works for me – early evening to allow those who want to take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Ian After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be attending. I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. Parminder _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder' Subject: RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before pressing send. That was meant to be offlist . Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to discuss in any case. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:14 To: 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder' Subject: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Hi Parminder, Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something like that seems important). I’ll respond but will be interested to see what others say first. On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release names periodically as they are received and certainly before Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I think that might be the way to get the best field. All the best, Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 16:51 To: 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Subject: RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively representative of people and groups across the world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on the other. However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. Parminder _____ From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of Ian Peter Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Dear Wolfgang Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably about the IGF. The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. Best Francis --------------------------------- http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 7 November 2008, 12:30 ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to prevent it." In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child protection online. Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival event. Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within both models. (Monika Ermert) (lghp[9])
URL of this Article: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 Links in this Article: [1] http://www.itu.int/ [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-beh ind-IPv6--/110960 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk Dear friends find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 8 04:53:01 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 01:53:01 -0800 Subject: [governance] IGC workshops at the IGF, Hyderabad References: <20081108152905.6A984A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <4915617C.49D6B859@ix.netcom.com> Parminder and all, Will there be any forum mailing lists for this WG's created? Seems to me that such would be a good idea so that transparency and openness as well as broader participation can be achieved. Parminder wrote: > Hi All > > The final program of the three workshops sponsored by the IGC for IGF, > Hyderabad, is now ready. > > The three workshops are > > 1)The role and mandate of the IGF, December 6th 9 to 1030, ( > http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=71 ) > > 2)The Transboundary Internet: Jurisdiction, Control and Sovereignty, > December 4th, 16 to 1730 > (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=63 ) > > 3)Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach, on December > 6th, 11:30 - 13:00, See details of the workshop at > (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=66 ) > > Apart for these, IGC is also co-sponsoring the workshop on The Future > of ICANN: After the JPA, What? December 4th, 11- 1230 > (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=9 ) > > Thanks to the IGC working groups who worked hard to organize these > workshops. > > IGC members who wish to give comments on the subjects of the above > workshops may do so, and it is expected that the IGC participants in > these workshops will take note of them. > > Parminder > > PS : The full IGF program can be seen at > http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/hyderabad_prog/Workshop_Schedule.htm > .. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barak ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 03:12:15 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 13:42:15 +0530 Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Hello Wolfgang Kleinwaehter and All, Here are my comments on the Speech at the ICANN Meeting in Cairo, 6 November 2008 by Hamadoun Toure, Secretary General of the ITU. When I read what I wrote, I am surprised that some of these comments sound intense. Part of what is written might not even be fair, but I am posting it as written. Please take this sufficiently factored down, because I was not there at Cairo to "feel" his speech. The comments are based on my impressions from the speech transcript. It is based on the superficial knowledge that the ITU places the interests of the Telecom companies and the Governments paramount. Also, I have picked up portions of the Secretary General's speech for comments. In this critique, what is missing are positive remarks that are due. It is positive as a gesture on the part of the ITU Secretary General to have extended an arm to work with ICANN and to pronounce a desire to be committed to the mutli-stakeholder approach. But in this message I have chosen to read between the lines of the Secretary General's transcript, just to raise some points for discussion. Comments: *since 1865, since the creation of the telegraph. And we are very proud of the way the organization has been able to adapt itself over the years and decades and centuries, from telegraph to telephone to teletypewriters, to radio and television. We are talking about digital broadcasting now. And very soon, 3D television. We are talking about the emergence of new technologies.* *ITU adopts itself to own all inter-human communication in any form. * *I was telling to many people from developing countries who were fighting for Internet governance: "Before you get the governance, get the Internet first." * *Yes, that allows various interests to give shape to the internet in a manner that is most advantageous for commerce and government. After that any process of debate on Governance wouldn't be able to reverse the practices established. * *ICANN is just ten years old but it's done a great job. * *Yes, ITU is older. We notice that the ITU has governed Communications around the world for over 143 years. * *we had a very successful WSIS. For the first time, a UN body was organizing a summit, where you didn't have demonstrations outside. * *Business and Government kept the Civil Society locked out in several international conventions that were either in the Governments' Diplomatic Territory or Business' Commercial Territory. The Internet is Civil Sphere and the Governments were the latecomers. What ought to have been said here is that the Civil Society included Government and Business and not vice versa. * * **Every time a Web browser establishes a secure connection to a server, ITU's work on PKIs, public key infrastructures, and encryption keys, is used. Our pioneering work on electronic authentication enabled jurisdictions around the world to recognize e-mail as legal documents and to give legal studies to electronic signatures. * *I can't help notice that most of the work that the ITU has done relates to "authentication", "security" etc. to enable "jurisdiction". Isn't the ITU working on making the Internet what it is not?* * **We [ITU and ICANN] just have to learn to know each other better so that we can like each other and work together. And the main reason why I'm here is that is my motto: "* *This sounds dangerous. The DOC-supervised ICANN and the inter-governmental ITU aligned together !* *IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. * *I agree. I fully agree. One reason is the limitation of the UN mandate to the IGF. IGF does not even have recommendary 'powers' and the IGF process is in a sense a huge distraction away from the policy changes and new Internet legislations that get enacted in bits and pieces (leading to an untold comprehensive whole) in different parts of the world - for e.g. the move by UK to direct ISPs to retain traffic records for two years. IGF requires a complete re-redesign.* *Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. * *World Policy Forum? For the ITU to psychologically claim its stake as the ICT super-authority?* *I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." .... we need to talk about it. And you shouldn't see us as an enemy. I always said that I have enough on my plate in ITU and there is no need to add more. * *I don't get the feeling that ITU is content with its sphere of influence.* *If you want an Internet connection for a business or a house, they will ask you first if you have a telephone line. * *Why do I need an ITU regulated and monitored phone line to qualify for Internet Access? Why isn't the Community doing enough to bring in alternate technologies?* *During the debates of the WSIS, when people were talking about Internet governance, I was telling them, "Get Internet first before you talk about getting the governance of it." I was giving simple example, comparing Internet and telecommunications to trucks or cars and highways. It's not because you own the highways that you're going to own all the trucks or cars running on them, and certainly not the goods that they are transporting, or vice versa. It's a simple analogy. * *Great. The road analogy isn't all that perfect as an analogy for the Internet. I will let it go to say that those who owns the roads get to decide who rides and who doesn't and gets to decide what to charge as toll fee. * * .... the relationship between the Internet and the telecommunication world... And they are condemned to work together. It's a condemned marriage. So better enjoy it. If you know that you're not going to get divorced in any case because you're condemned to live together, you better find a way to enjoy each other, and have kids in the process.* *The Internet CAN technically divorce the telecoms or even scale up to include telecoms services as part of the internet. It is a condemned marriage alright, but if one partner is too difficult and drives the other to the wall, a divorce isn't technically infeasible.* *It has been alleged in some corners of the ITU that ITU wishes to govern the Internet. And I have specifically said that I categorically deny that. * *When someone in government or someone connected to government "denies" something, it is always true. * And I say today again to you, it is not the case. My intention as Secretary-General of ITU is not to govern the Internet. But we need to work together, because there are developing countries that are in need of access. At the end of this year, we'll have four billion mobile telephones in the world. While we try to bridge the gap in telephony, we have to ensure that no new gap is created in Internet and no new gap is created in broadband for us to help other sectors to meet the Millennium Development Goals. Therefore, there is a need for these two societies to work together. Almost half of the people in this room are very active participants in the ITU. And, therefore, I think there is room for us to know each other and to understand. ITU's role as a multilateral forum for debate is to serve as a source of impartial expert information and guidance, just as we have done for nearly 145 years. We strive to help all parties work together to clarify the issues and build consensus on the most effective ways of promoting the evolution and uptake of this powerful resource. And we have that capability. We are proud of that culture. It's the only organization where you will have countries that are at war on other fronts, are supporting each other with common resolutions, without the people supporting those resolutions being fired. I'm proud to say that we are the only organization where you have Iran supporting "his friends", I quote, of the United States, or vice versa and the people who have supported that are still alive. It happens on a daily basis. We never had any Palestinian-Israeli crisis inside the ITU. They share spectrums. So we are in a position to work with everyone, because we have a technical approach to issues. *Impressive. But aren't you bidding to take over the internet by saying all this ?* * **ITU is also actively encouraging the industry-wide move to IPv6. Again, looking on the Web all of last week, I've seen numerous attacks on the ITU for having pronounced the world IPv6.This is a concern for all of us. Every mobile phone will have an IP address, every fridge, every car, it's an inevitable thing. * *What concerns me is the fact that IPV6 seems to have obviated (or made impossible) Network Address Translation. This means that everything that I ever say on the Internet is linked to my unique, unchangeable IPV6 address. My computer has an unchanging, permanent IPV6 address. My refrigerator and my MP4 player will have a traceable IPV6 address. Where is my privacy? Perhaps I will be able to borrow my refrigerator's IPV6 address to send an email to my top secret girl friend and in case my wife gets hold of that message I could blame it on the refrigerator? (this comment in particular without in-depth knowledge of the technical architecture of IPV6) * In 2005, WSIS mandated ITU to take a lead role in building confidence and security in the use of ICTs. I put in place a high-level expert group last year to study the issue and report to the council, with the final report this year. We are gaining a momentum as we move steadily towards agreements on an international set of principles and best-practice approaches that countries around the world can follow to promote cybersecurity. *Security concerns are center stage on the ITU agenda, pushing the need to build (user) Confidence out of view. What has ITU done on the privacy front, to protest against legislations such as directives by UK to ISPs to retain email logs for two years or directives by governments to facilitate recording of mobile phone conversations? * *Estonian network was down for two days. .. And during the uprising between Georgia and Russia, we have noticed a large number of botnets or cyber attacks between the two countries. That is scary. ...* *Thank you for drawing attention to the fact that it is sometimes **Governments that cause or engineer some of the major cyber incidents? * *Our children, who spend most of their time in cyberspace, are not taught the basic behaviours in the cyberspace. When they go out in the street, we tell them, "Be careful. Don't talk to strangers, don't accept candy from someone you don't know. It could be a drug that could kill you." But they're out there in cyberspace without telling them what to do or how to behave. * *Yes, we will make them paranoid.* * **The potential of the Internet to accelerate social and economic development in the world's poorest regions is perhaps its greatest asset. I hope you will support ITU in our ongoing effort to see that everyone everywhere has a chance to benefit from that potential for the betterment of our planet, and for humankind, for all humankind.* *Sounds rhetorical.* *We will never counter terrorism if we don't have a harmonized way of tracing back the IP address. .*.. *How would I trust the Law and Order agencies to restrict use of these technologies only against terrorists and criminals and not against the unsuspecting citizens ?* *ZAHID JAMIL, DNS Resolution Center Pakistan:* I am a lawyer from Pakistan. Your Excellency, I heard you talk about the important role that ITU can play in everything from IPv6, the coordination of the IP-based networks, cybersecurity, privacy, data protection, cybersecurity, cyberterrorism, multilingualism, IDNs, a whole bunch of things. My only question is, to what extent do you think ITU would have any restrictions, because it seems it would probably become the regulator in convergence of everything. So is there a limitation you can see as far as the ITU's scope? *Touche*' *WOLFGANG KLEINWÄCHTER, University of Aarhus* what is the future of civil society in the ITU? ITU has nearly 200 member states and more than 700 private sector members. When civil society becomes an equal partner in this setting? *Is it really possible to believe that the Civil Society would be represented at the ITU so broadly as to balance the 191 member srates and 700 private sector companies? ITU is ITU. It could come to the IGF to represent business and government. If Civil Society focuses its effort on getting better represented at the ITU, some day the IGF could become a part of the ITU.* *HAMMADOUN TOURE, Secretary General of the ITU* *Government is in an advisory role. Advisory role! You advise me and I am free to take your advice? * *Advice from Government always comes with the subtle posture of "It is just an advice or a suggestion, but remember where it comes from"* *During the WSIS process, we had a problem that some member states have genuinely raised. We have countries like China. During a PrepCom in Japan we spent three days out of four not working because there were some so-called civil society, NGO that were government officials from Taiwan. The Chinese delegation came with their photos and information on them from the Web that they are government officials, and they registered as NGOs. It's a problem.* *Thank you for bringing that up. This is really an issue about how the Civil Society is constituted at least in parts. We need to clean up a little bit.* *HAMMADOUN TOURE, Secretary General of the ITU* *Now, let's be clear. Government cannot get into individual people's privacy. * *Please, don't. * * * ...... * I'm telling you my intention is not, from ITU, to try and take over Internet. * *When someone in government or someone from an inter-governmental organization talks of an absence of an intention, there is always an intention. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy * On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Parminder wrote: > >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties > wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping > under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) > > > > > > Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. > > > > Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society's best > bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively > representative of people and groups across the world, and still has been > able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the one side > and corporate control on the other. > > > > However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, have > been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the IGF in all > ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some substantive (and not > merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or > doing substantive inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if > non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. > > > > I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this issue, > or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be taken in view > of current and emergent realities. > > > > It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of > being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance > takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil > society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to > have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how > we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in > view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest > immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at > Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. > > > > Parminder > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] *On > Behalf Of *Ian Peter > *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > *Cc:* 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' > *Subject:* [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: > [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > > > The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that > the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is > becoming more and more a waste of time." > > > > Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties > wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping > under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) > > > > My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn't succeed in addressing the > real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or > globalisation? Take your pick…. > > > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU > & ICANN in Cairo > > > > Dear Wolfgang > > Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably > about the IGF. > > The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > > *Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the > work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of > the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that > the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes > sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to > solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, > so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the > World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related > public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to > multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not > tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone.* > > > > Best Francis > > --------------------------------- > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 > > 7 November 2008, 12:30 > *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* > > ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration > between the *International Telecommunication Union[1]* (ITU) and the *Internet > Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have > unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put > an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. > According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other > better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet > are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". > > Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the > criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear > to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the > dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party > clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as > purely cosmetic. > > The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its > roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator > ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk > given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between > the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The > best way to win a war, is to prevent it." > > In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the > ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include > the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently > engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, standardisation for the all-IP *Next > Generation Network[4]* (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online > terrorism and child protection online. > > Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global > regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear > boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he > underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its *Cybersecurity > Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against > online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial *IP > traceback[6]* standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't > doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. > > Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He > stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the > telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also > praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the *World Summit on the Information > Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, > according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been > invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. > > In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the *Internet > Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am > personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in > circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year > as a rival event. > > Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by > governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's > weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function > of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the > domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or > leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted > Touré forthrightly. > > In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government > representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian > government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, > re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN > operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint > of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because > governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation > they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of > collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have > their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to > operate within both models. > > (*Monika Ermert*) > > (*lghp[9]*) > >
> > *URL of this Article:* > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > > *Links in this Article:* > [1] http://www.itu.int/ > [2] http://www.icann.org > [3] > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > > > > > Dear friends > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > > > Wolfgang > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > -- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 > 2:18 PM > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 8 05:41:16 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 02:41:16 -0800 Subject: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <49156CCB.AA90DFC2@ix.netcom.com> Siva and all, Lets all try to remember, or should I say be more accurate, that the bulk of the work done on PKI was and still is done at the IETF, not the ITU. The ITU was a "late bloomer" to PKI. For instance see: http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/pkix-charter.html So we all should be very careful concerning attributions... Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello Wolfgang Kleinwaehter and All, > > Here are my comments on the Speech at the ICANN Meeting in Cairo, 6 > November 2008 by Hamadoun Toure, Secretary General of the ITU. When I > read what I wrote, I am surprised that some of these comments sound > intense. Part of what is written might not even be fair, but I am > posting it as written. Please take this sufficiently factored down, > because I was not there at Cairo to "feel" his speech. The comments > are based on my impressions from the speech transcript. It is based on > the superficial knowledge that the ITU places the interests of the > Telecom companies and the Governments paramount. > > Also, I have picked up portions of the Secretary General's speech for > comments. In this critique, what is missing are positive remarks that > are due. It is positive as a gesture on the part of the ITU Secretary > General to have extended an arm to work with ICANN and to pronounce a > desire to be committed to the mutli-stakeholder approach. But in this > message I have chosen to read between the lines of the Secretary > General's transcript, just to raise some points for discussion. > > Comments: > since 1865, since the creation of the telegraph. And we are very proud > of the way the organization has been able to adapt itself over the > years and decades and centuries, from telegraph to telephone to > teletypewriters, to radio and television. We are talking about digital > broadcasting now. And very soon, 3D television. We are talking about > the emergence of new technologies. > > ITU adopts itself to own all inter-human communication in any form. > > I was telling to many people from developing countries who were > fighting for Internet governance: "Before you get the governance, get > the Internet first." > > Yes, that allows various interests to give shape to the internet in a > manner that is most advantageous for commerce and government. After > that any process of debate on Governance wouldn't be able to reverse > the practices established. > > > ICANN is just ten years old but it's done a great job. > > > Yes, ITU is older. We notice that the ITU has governed Communications > around the world for over 143 years. > > we had a very successful WSIS. For the first time, a UN body was > organizing a summit, where you didn't have demonstrations outside. > > Business and Government kept the Civil Society locked out in several > international conventions that were either in the Governments' > Diplomatic Territory or Business' Commercial Territory. The Internet > is Civil Sphere and the Governments were the latecomers. What ought to > have been said here is that the Civil Society included Government and > Business and not vice versa. > > Every time a Web browser establishes a secure connection to a server, > ITU's work on PKIs, public key infrastructures, and encryption keys, > is used. Our pioneering work on electronic authentication enabled > jurisdictions around the world to recognize e-mail as legal documents > and to give legal studies to electronic signatures. > > I can't help notice that most of the work that the ITU has done > relates to "authentication", "security" etc. to enable "jurisdiction". > Isn't the ITU working on making the Internet what it is not? > > We [ITU and ICANN] just have to learn to know each other better so > that we can like each other and work together. And the main reason why > I'm here is that is my motto: " > > This sounds dangerous. The DOC-supervised ICANN and the > inter-governmental ITU aligned together ! > > IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes > sometimes a waste of time. > > I agree. I fully agree. One reason is the limitation of the UN mandate > to the IGF. IGF does not even have recommendary 'powers' and the IGF > process is in a sense a huge distraction away from the policy changes > and new Internet legislations that get enacted in bits and pieces > (leading to an untold comprehensive whole) in different parts of the > world - for e.g. the move by UK to direct ISPs to retain traffic > records for two years. IGF requires a complete re-redesign. > > Next year, ITU willorganize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a > number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from > cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing > development of Internet. > > World Policy Forum? For the ITU to psychologically claim its stake as > the ICT super-authority? > > I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." .... > we need to talk about it. And you shouldn't see us as an enemy. I > always said that I have enough on my plate in ITU and there is no need > to add more. > > I don't get the feeling that ITU is content with its sphere of > influence. > > If you want an Internet connection for a business or a house, they > will ask you first if you have a telephone line. > > Why do I need an ITU regulated and monitored phone line to qualify for > Internet Access? Why isn't the Community doing enough to bring in > alternate technologies? > During the debates of the WSIS, when people were talking about > Internet governance, I was telling them, "Get Internet first before > you talk about getting the governance of it." I was giving simple > example, comparing Internet and telecommunications to trucks or cars > and highways. It's not because you own the highways that you're going > to own all the trucks or cars running on them, and certainly not the > goods that they are transporting, or vice versa. It's a simple > analogy. > > Great. The road analogy isn't all that perfect as an analogy for the > Internet. I will let it go to say that those who owns the roads get to > decide who rides and who doesn't and gets to decide what to charge as > toll fee. > > .... the relationship between the Internet and the telecommunication > world... And they are condemned to work together. It's a condemned > marriage. So better enjoy it. If you know that you're not going to get > divorced in any case because you're condemned to live together, you > better find a way to enjoy each other, and have kids in the process. > > The Internet CAN technically divorce the telecoms or even scale up to > include telecoms services as part of the internet. It is a condemned > marriage alright, but if one partner is too difficult and drives the > other to the wall, a divorce isn't technically infeasible. > > It has been alleged in some corners of the ITU that ITU wishes to > govern the Internet. And I have specifically said that I categorically > deny that. > > When someone in government or someone connected to government "denies" > something, it is always true. > > And I say today again to you, it is not the case. My intention as > Secretary-General of ITU is not to govern the Internet. But we need to > work together, because there are developing countries that are in need > of access. At the end of this year, we'll have four billion mobile > telephones in the world. While we try to bridge the gap in telephony, > we have to ensure that no new gap is created in Internet and no new > gap is created in broadband for us to help other sectors to meet the > Millennium Development Goals. Therefore, there is a need for these two > societies to work together. Almost half of the people in this room are > very active participants in the ITU. And, therefore, I think there is > room for us to know each other and to understand. > > ITU's role as a multilateral forum for debate is to serve as a source > of impartial expert information and guidance, just as we have done for > nearly 145 years. We strive to help all parties work together to > clarify the issues and build consensus on the most effective ways of > promoting the evolution and uptake of this powerful resource. And we > have that capability. We are proud of that culture. It's the only > organization where you will have countries that are at war on other > fronts, are supporting each other with common resolutions, without the > people supporting those resolutions being fired. I'm proud to say that > we are the only organization where you have Iran supporting "his > friends", I quote, of the United States, or vice versa and the people > who have supported that are still alive. It happens on a daily basis. > We never had any Palestinian-Israeli crisis inside the ITU. They share > spectrums. So we are in a position to work with everyone, because we > have a technical approach to issues. > > Impressive. But aren't you bidding to take over the internet by saying > all this ? > > ITU is also actively encouraging the industry-wide move to IPv6. > Again, looking on the Web all of last week, I've seen numerous attacks > on the ITU for having pronounced the world IPv6.This is a concern for > all of us. Every mobile phone will have an IP address, every fridge, > every car, it's an inevitable thing. > > What concerns me is the fact that IPV6 seems to have obviated (or made > impossible) Network Address Translation. This means that everything > that I ever say on the Internet is linked to my unique, unchangeable > IPV6 address. My computer has an unchanging, permanent IPV6 address. > My refrigerator and my MP4 player will have a traceable IPV6 address. > Where is my privacy? Perhaps I will be able to borrow my > refrigerator's IPV6 address to send an email to my top secret girl > friend and in case my wife gets hold of that message I could blame it > on the refrigerator? (this comment in particular without in-depth > knowledge of the technical architecture of IPV6) > > In 2005, WSIS mandated ITU to take a lead role in building confidence > and security in the use of ICTs. I put in place a high-level expert > group last year to study the issue and report to the council, with the > final report this year. We are gaining a momentum as we move steadily > towards agreements on an international set of principles and > best-practice approaches that countries around the world can follow to > promote cybersecurity. > > Security concerns are center stage on the ITU agenda, pushing the need > to build (user) Confidence out of view. What has ITU done on the > privacy front, to protest against legislations such as directives by > UK to ISPs to retain email logs for two years or directives by > governments to facilitate recording of mobile phone conversations? > > Estonian network was down for two days. .. And during the uprising > between Georgia and Russia, we have noticed a large number of botnets > or cyber attacks between the two countries. That is scary. ... > > Thank you for drawing attention to the fact that it is sometimes > Governments that cause or engineer some of the major cyber incidents? > > Our children, who spend most of their time in cyberspace, are not > taught the basic behaviours in the cyberspace. When they go out in the > street, we tell them, "Be careful. Don't talk to strangers, don't > accept candy from someone you don't know. It could be a drug that > could kill you." But they're out there in cyberspace without telling > them what to do or how to behave. > > Yes, we will make them paranoid. > > The potential of the Internet to accelerate social and economic > development in the world's poorest regions is perhaps its greatest > asset. I hope you will support ITU in our ongoing effort to see that > everyone everywhere has a chance to benefit from that potential for > the betterment of our planet, and for humankind, for all humankind. > > Sounds rhetorical. > > We will never counter terrorism if we don't have a harmonized way of > tracing back the IP address. ... > > How would I trust the Law and Order agencies to restrict use of these > technologies only against terrorists and criminals and not against the > unsuspecting citizens ? > > > ZAHID JAMIL, DNS Resolution Center Pakistan: > > I am a lawyer from Pakistan. Your Excellency, I heard you talk about > the important role that ITU can play in everything from IPv6, the > coordination of the IP-based networks, cybersecurity, privacy, data > protection, cybersecurity, cyberterrorism, multilingualism, IDNs, a > whole bunch of things. My only question is, to what extent do you > think ITU would have any restrictions, because it seems it would > probably become the regulator in convergence of everything. So is > there a limitation you can see as far as the ITU's scope? > > Touche' > > WOLFGANG KLEINWÄCHTER, University of Aarhus > > what is the future of civil society in the ITU? ITU has nearly 200 > member states and more than 700 private sector members. When civil > society becomes an equal partner in this setting? > > Is it really possible to believe that the Civil Society would be > represented at the ITU so broadly as to balance the 191 member srates > and 700 private sector companies? ITU is ITU. It could come to the IGF > to represent business and government. If Civil Society focuses its > effort on getting better represented at the ITU, some day the IGF > could become a part of the ITU. > > HAMMADOUN TOURE, Secretary General of the ITU > > Government is in an advisory role. Advisory role! You advise me and I > am free to take your advice? > > Advice from Government always comes with the subtle posture of "It is > just an advice or a suggestion, but remember where it comes from" > > During the WSIS process, we had a problem that some member states have > genuinely raised. We have countries like China. During a PrepCom in > Japan we spent three days out of four not working because there were > some so-called civil society, NGO that were government officials from > Taiwan. The Chinese delegation came with their photos and information > on them from the Web that they are government officials, and they > registered as NGOs. It's a problem. > > Thank you for bringing that up. This is really an issue about how the > Civil Society is constituted at least in parts. We need to clean up a > little bit. > > HAMMADOUN TOURE, Secretary General of the ITU > > Now, let's be clear. Government cannot get into individual people's > privacy. > > Please, don't. > > > ...... I'm telling you my intention is not, from ITU, to try and > take over Internet. > > When someone in government or someone from an inter-governmental > organization talks of an absence of an intention, there is always an > intention. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Parminder > wrote: > > >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly > some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we > diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important > issues (lest anyone take offence?) > > Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. > > Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil > society's best bet in many ways. It is a new-age > organization that is relatively representative of people and > groups across the world, and still has been able to maintain > some distance from strong statist control on the one side > and corporate control on the other. > > However, many others in the civil society, including within > the IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight > behind strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – > whether the issue has been of some substantive (and not > merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group (currently > named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and > giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG > issues. > > I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions > on this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new > directions need to be taken in view of current and emergent > realities. > > It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the > danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no > one of any real importance takes any note of. We must review > what would it mean in terms of civil society and progressive > interests. In light of such a review we may need to have > clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the > IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an > even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming > process of IGF review which will start in earnest > immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and > discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications > for this review. > > Parminder > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org > [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of Ian Peter > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks > Governance'Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless > forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the > opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles > and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste > of time." > > Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly > some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we > diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important > issues (lest anyone take offence?) > > My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn't succeed in > addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does > succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: > [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > Dear Wolfgang > > Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, > most notably about the IGF. > > The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > > Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate > actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was > established as the result of the multistakeholder > deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF > is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and > becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues > frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I > should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know > each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World > Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related > public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data > protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of > Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk > about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. > > Best Francis > > --------------------------------- > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/1119147 November > 2008, 12:30 > > ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage > > ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better > collaboration between the International Telecommunication > Union[1] (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned > Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). "Our members have > unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think > we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the > 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two > organisations need to get to know each other better and > learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the > internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". > > Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did > not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN > meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that > he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the > forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party > clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental > Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. > > The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN > organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications > world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed > by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk > given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the > "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who > was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to > prevent it." > > In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred > extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for > his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation > of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, > the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation for the > all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the > fight against online terrorism and child protection online. > > Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself > as global regulator of internet resources and processes, > "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the > operative business." However, he underlined the > organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity > Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the > fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also > defended the controversial IP traceback[6] standard > proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, > it's just that each country is doing it differently," said > Touré. > > Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind > closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 > sector members from the telecommunications industry and also > admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's > openness – a nod to the World Summit on the Information > Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, > is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil > society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather > than demonstrating outside. > > In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of > the Internet Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called > into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that > the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding > issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet > policy next year as a rival event. > > Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the > work performed by governments within ICANN. "The > Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said > Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function > of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing > rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me > advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC > is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré > forthrightly. > > In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian > government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name > of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of > the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC > chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated > according to very different political models, "From the > viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model > may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, > whilst in an international organisation they run the show." > ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of > collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both > models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that > governments need to learn to operate within both models. > > (Monika Ermert) > > (lghp[9]) >
> URL of this Article: > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > > Links in this Article: > [1] http://www.itu.int/ > [2] http://www.icann.org > [3] > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > > [4] > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > > > > > Dear friends > > > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > > > Wolfgang > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > -- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release > Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Sun Nov 9 05:23:12 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 11:23:12 +0100 Subject: [governance] ITU & ICANN 2 References: <188A1944-9FC1-4560-BF75-0473A8A3C1CB@datos-personales.org> <646E3816B98F1144812F31E1BDA0229739E7D6AC47@DC-V115.consumerfocus.local> <7C36FCE3-CC3D-4E08-96CC-F2FC19FD1E92@eff.org> <1226063972.25368.26.camel@anriette-laptop> <006601c940e4$8ee7b200$ce777a89@crllt.ad.uottawa.ca> <491453EC.5040604@wzb.eu> <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9F4F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842647F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426489@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> FYI The ITU SG Report for the preparation of the WTPF which will take place now in April 2009 in Lisbon. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: SECOND DRAFT OF THE SECRETARY.doc Type: application/octet-stream Size: 409088 bytes Desc: SECOND DRAFT OF THE SECRETARY.doc URL: From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Sun Nov 9 05:46:45 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:46:45 +0000 Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: In message , at 13:42:15 on Sun, 9 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy writes >What concerns me is the fact that IPV6 seems to have obviated (or made >impossible) Network Address Translation. This means that everything >that I ever say on the Internet is linked to my unique, unchangeable >IPV6 address. [My replies here are not about ITU or ICANN, but address wider issues] I don't share your pessimism that ipv6 goes hand-in-hand with the demise of privacy-enhancing techniques (why is it worse than using a static ipv4 address), and remember there's also a balance to be struck with those who claim that the Internet's fundamental "end to end" principle is in danger of being destroyed by over-use of NAT. >How would I trust the Law and Order agencies to restrict use of these >[trace-back] technologies only against terrorists and criminals and not >against the unsuspecting citizens ? The same way you trust them (or not) with regard to your telephone number and associated call logs, your car licence plate, your credit card bills, or your passport and airline travel itineraries. >legislations such as directives by UK to ISPs to retain email logs for >two years Although most of the press coverage is from the UK (due in part to the highly transparent way measures like this are introduced), this is a Europe-wide Directive and all the UK is doing is putting that EU Directive into force (and rather late in the permitted timescale). "Our children, who spend most of their time in cyberspace, are not taught the basic behaviours in the cyberspace. When they go out in the street, we tell them, "Be careful. Don't talk to strangers, don't accept candy from someone you don't know. It could be a drug that could kill you." But they're out there in cyberspace without telling them what to do or how to behave. >Yes, we will make them paranoid There's no need for children to become paranoid, but as you know the Internet accelerates all the good and the bad in the world. Children are more vulnerable to scams and "drive by" attacks, and have fewer inhibitions against publishing their indiscretions and secrets (including those of their family) for the world to see. Addressing this is an aspect of "child protection" which is too easily ignored. -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeanette at wzb.eu Sun Nov 9 13:04:20 2008 From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 18:04:20 +0000 Subject: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] In-Reply-To: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> Message-ID: <49172624.9050905@wzb.eu> Ian Peter wrote: > The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion > that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues > – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." This is a surprisingly rude remark for a diplomat. As if not all UN organizations shared (and suffered from) the problem of "going round in circles" and wasting time. Probably this has to be read in the context of the IGF's upcoming evaluation? jeanette > > > > Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties > wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping > under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) > > > > My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing > the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation > or globalisation? Take your pick…. > > > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] > ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > > > Dear Wolfgang > > Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably > about the IGF. > > The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > > /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in > the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the > result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally > believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the > topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues > frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here > to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next > year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number > of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and > data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of > Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." > It's an issue for everyone./ > > > > Best Francis > > --------------------------------- > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 > > 7 November 2008, 12:30 > > > *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* > > ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration > between the *International Telecommunication Union[1]* (ITU) and the > *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our > members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I > think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd > ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need > to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as > telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a > "forced marriage". > > Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare > the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it > clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing > the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the > other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental > Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. > > The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has > its roots in the telecommunications world, and the > quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further > statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré > repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According > to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to > prevent it." > > In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the > ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, > include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN > is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, standardisation for > the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), cyber-security, the fight > against online terrorism and child protection online. > > Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global > regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear > boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he > underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its *Cybersecurity > Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global framework in the fight > against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the > controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard proposal. "There is not one > country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it > differently," said Touré. > > Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. > He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the > telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also > praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the *World Summit on the > Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU > auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil > society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than > demonstrating outside. > > In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the *Internet > Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I > am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in > circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of > time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy > next year as a rival event. > > Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed > by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is > ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the > advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in > developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me > advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore > nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. > > In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government > representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the > Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat > Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the > ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, > "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model > may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an > international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, > based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He > noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that > governments need to learn to operate within both models. > > (//Monika Ermert//) > > (*lghp[9]*) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > size=2 width="100%" align=center> > > **URL of this Article:** > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > > **Links in this Article:** > [1] http://www.itu.int/ > [2] http://www.icann.org > [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > > > > > > Dear friends > > > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > > > Wolfgang > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 13:19:14 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 23:49:14 +0530 Subject: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] In-Reply-To: <49172624.9050905@wzb.eu> References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <49172624.9050905@wzb.eu> Message-ID: Hello Jenette Hofmann, On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 11:34 PM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > > > Ian Peter wrote: > >> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that >> the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is >> becoming more and more a waste of time." >> > > This is a surprisingly rude remark for a diplomat. As if not all UN > organizations shared (and suffered from) the problem of "going round in > circles" and wasting time. Probably this has to be read in the context of > the IGF's upcoming evaluation? > jeanette Even if undiplomatic or somewhat offensive, it is time that the responsible participants of the IGF throughly reviewed how the IGF is "going round and round" . The focus needs to be on finding ways of making the IGF meaningful and result oriented, rather than on the propriety of this comment. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > >> >> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties >> wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping >> under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) >> >> >> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn't succeed in addressing the >> real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or >> globalisation? Take your pick…. >> >> >> Ian Peter >> >> PO Box 429 >> >> Bangalow NSW 2479 >> >> Australia >> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> >> www.ianpeter.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang >> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance >> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU >> & ICANN in Cairo >> >> >> Dear Wolfgang >> >> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably >> about the IGF. >> >> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. >> >> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the >> work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of >> the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that >> the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes >> sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to >> solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, >> so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the >> World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related >> public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to >> multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not >> tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone./ >> >> >> >> Best Francis >> >> --------------------------------- >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 >> >> 7 November 2008, 12:30 >> >> >> *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* >> >> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration >> between the *International Telecommunication Union[1]* (ITU) and the >> *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our >> members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we >> should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting >> in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each >> other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the >> internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". >> >> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the >> criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear >> to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the >> dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party >> clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as >> purely cosmetic. >> >> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has >> its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator >> ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk >> given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between >> the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The >> best way to win a war, is to prevent it." >> >> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the >> ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include >> the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently >> engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, standardisation for the all-IP *Next >> Generation Network[4]* (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online >> terrorism and child protection online. >> >> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global >> regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear >> boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he >> underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its *Cybersecurity >> Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against >> online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial *IP >> traceback[6]* standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing >> it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. >> >> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. >> He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the >> telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also >> praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the *World Summit on the Information >> Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according >> to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited >> to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. >> >> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the *Internet >> Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am >> personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in >> circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." >> Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year >> as a rival event. >> >> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by >> governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's >> weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function >> of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the >> domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or >> leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted >> Touré forthrightly. >> >> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government >> representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian >> government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, >> re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN >> operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint >> of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because >> governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation >> they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of >> collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have >> their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to >> operate within both models. >> >> (//Monika Ermert//) >> >> (*lghp[9]*) >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> size=2 width="100%" align=center> >> >> **URL of this Article:** >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 >> >> **Links in this Article:** >> [1] http://www.itu.int/ >> [2] http://www.icann.org >> [3] >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 >> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking >> [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ >> [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html >> [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS >> [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ >> [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> Dear friends >> >> >> find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN >> meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on >> the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A >> very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly >> provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new >> conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of >> cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an >> hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom >> up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global >> diplomacy of the 21st century. >> >> Wolfgang >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org> >> >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 >> 2:18 PM >> >> ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Sun Nov 9 13:50:53 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:20:53 +0530 Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Hello Roland Perry, On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Roland Perry < roland at internetpolicyagency.com> wrote: > In message > , at > 13:42:15 on Sun, 9 Nov 2008, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > writes > >What concerns me is the fact that IPV6 seems to have obviated (or made > >impossible) Network Address Translation. This means that everything > >that I ever say on the Internet is linked to my unique, unchangeable > >IPV6 address. > > [My replies here are not about ITU or ICANN, but address wider issues] > > I don't share your pessimism that ipv6 goes hand-in-hand with the demise > of privacy-enhancing techniques (why is it worse than using a static > ipv4 address), and remember there's also a balance to be struck with > those who claim that the Internet's fundamental "end to end" principle > is in danger of being destroyed by over-use of NAT. I am not so well educated on the technical nuances of IPV6. I notice that you have described ipV4 as "static" - Is ipV6 dynamic, is it designed to be "not-static" ? I expressed one concern related to ipV6, am not altogether pessimistic nor do I consider ipV4 preferable. I would also share your concerns about the over-use of NAT in ipV4, especially if it endangers the end to end principle. > > > >How would I trust the Law and Order agencies to restrict use of these > >[trace-back] technologies only against terrorists and criminals and not > >against the unsuspecting citizens ? > > The same way you trust them (or not) with regard to your telephone > number and associated call logs, your car licence plate, your credit > card bills, or your passport and airline travel itineraries. Actually there is more to distrust in telephony than on the Internet. Voice processing technologies and the architecture of mobile communication / mobile phones have made it easier for the authorities to monitor mobile communications. A passport is essential, disclosing personal information to travel is inevitable, but the concern is that all these bits and pieces of information shared in different places could get synthesizes into a dossier that could go into a "giant database". Add to that the danger of linking online communication to IP addresses .... >legislations such as directives by UK to ISPs to retain email logs for > >two years > > > Although most of the press coverage is from the UK (due in part to the > highly transparent way measures like this are introduced), this is a > Europe-wide Directive and all the UK is doing is putting that EU > Directive into force (and rather late in the permitted timescale). Yes, it is Europe wide and so there is a greater cause for concern. > > > "Our children, who spend most of their time in cyberspace, are > not taught the basic behaviours in the cyberspace. When they go > out in the street, we tell them, "Be careful. Don't talk to > strangers, don't accept candy from someone you don't know. It > could be a drug that could kill you." But they're out there in > cyberspace without telling them what to do or how to behave. > > >Yes, we will make them paranoid > > There's no need for children to become paranoid, but as you know the > Internet accelerates all the good and the bad in the world. Children are > more vulnerable to scams and "drive by" attacks, and have fewer > inhibitions against publishing their indiscretions and secrets > (including those of their family) for the world to see. Addressing this > is an aspect of "child protection" which is too easily ignored. Agreed. Children do require a bit of orientation, but we need to educate them in such a way that they do not grow up as a paranoid generation. Thank you Roland Perry, for your comments . > -- > Roland Perry > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 8 20:10:29 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 17:10:29 -0800 Subject: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <49172624.9050905@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <49163884.7679F31@ix.netcom.com> Jeanette and all, Gasp! How awful of Ian. Not! I was under no knowledge that "Diplomatic language" however that may be defined in the broad sense, was a requirement. Although I don't fully agree with Ian's statement which you highlighted/referred, I cannot see any reason it should be discounted for very questionable reasons of failing to meet anyone's idea of what "Diplomatic language" is or should be. Nor should the work of the IGC accordingly. FWIW, to disregard Ian's or anyone else's remarks on some other persons idea of what is or what is not proper "Diplomatic language" is an good example of why free speech is so necessary as a basic and unconditional right in an Internet Bill of Rights. Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > Ian Peter wrote: > > The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion > > that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues > > – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > > This is a surprisingly rude remark for a diplomat. As if not all UN > organizations shared (and suffered from) the problem of "going round in > circles" and wasting time. Probably this has to be read in the context > of the IGF's upcoming evaluation? > jeanette > > > > > > > > Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties > > wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping > > under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) > > > > > > > > My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing > > the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation > > or globalisation? Take your pick . > > > > > > > > Ian Peter > > > > PO Box 429 > > > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > > > Australia > > > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > > *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 > > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > > *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > > *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] > > ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > > > > > > > Dear Wolfgang > > > > Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably > > about the IGF. > > > > The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > > > > /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in > > the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the > > result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally > > believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the > > topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues > > frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here > > to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next > > year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number > > of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and > > data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of > > Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." > > It's an issue for everyone./ > > > > > > > > Best Francis > > > > --------------------------------- > > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 > > > > 7 November 2008, 12:30 > > > > > > *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* > > > > ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration > > between the *International Telecommunication Union[1]* (ITU) and the > > *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our > > members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I > > think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd > > ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need > > to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as > > telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a > > "forced marriage". > > > > Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare > > the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it > > clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing > > the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the > > other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental > > Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. > > > > The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has > > its roots in the telecommunications world, and the > > quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further > > statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré > > repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According > > to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to > > prevent it." > > > > In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the > > ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, > > include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN > > is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, standardisation for > > the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), cyber-security, the fight > > against online terrorism and child protection online. > > > > Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global > > regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear > > boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he > > underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its *Cybersecurity > > Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global framework in the fight > > against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the > > controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard proposal. "There is not one > > country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it > > differently," said Touré. > > > > Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. > > He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the > > telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also > > praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the *World Summit on the > > Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU > > auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil > > society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than > > demonstrating outside. > > > > In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the *Internet > > Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I > > am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in > > circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of > > time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy > > next year as a rival event. > > > > Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed > > by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is > > ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the > > advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in > > developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me > > advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore > > nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. > > > > In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government > > representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the > > Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat > > Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the > > ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, > > "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model > > may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an > > international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, > > based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He > > noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that > > governments need to learn to operate within both models. > > > > (//Monika Ermert//) > > > > (*lghp[9]*) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > size=2 width="100%" align=center> > > > > **URL of this Article:** > > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > > > > **Links in this Article:** > > [1] http://www.itu.int/ > > [2] http://www.icann.org > > [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > > [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > > [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > > [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > > [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > > [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > > [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear friends > > > > > > > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > > > > > > > Wolfgang > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > > 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Mon Nov 10 01:09:34 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:39:34 +0530 Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20081110061001.B318FA6C24@smtp2.electricembers.net> >>I was telling to many people from developing countries who were fighting for Internet governance: "Before you get the governance, get the Internet first." >Yes, that allows various interests to give shape to the internet in a manner that is most advantageous for commerce and government. After that any >process of debate on Governance wouldn't be able to reverse the practices established. Sivasubramanian, You make an important point. The above assertion about focusing on getting the Internet before seeking a role in IG, which seems to have some obvious force in its utter simplicity, has been much abused in the IG space. Many already entrenched in important positions vis a vis IG have made this assertion often. I don’t know whether you followed the clamor early last year when CIRs were sought to be discussed in the IGF, how so many voices suddenly begun to claim that the IGF should be looking mostly at the issue of spreading Internet access, and that the really disadvantaged people weren’t really bothered with such IG issues at all. Such patronizing and patently anti-democratic statements bothered some of us a lot. On the other hand, while admittedly the situation regarding access to the Internet is really dismal in so many parts of the world, what is unfortunate is that many people who seek to represent the interests of disadvantaged groups themselves fall into the simplistic trap of valorizing access and capacity building over IG. This represents the ‘basic needs versus governance stakes and rights’ dilemma much discussed in development literature. Both are important and as you say, if the disadvantaged groups do not stake their rightful claim to IG now, soon it will be too late, and they will be condemned to live with an Internet, and an information society, whose architecture is already cast by the dominant market and statist interests. Parminder _____ From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 1:42 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder Cc: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Subject: Re: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Hello Wolfgang Kleinwaehter and All, Here are my comments on the Speech at the ICANN Meeting in Cairo, 6 November 2008 by Hamadoun Toure, Secretary General of the ITU. When I read what I wrote, I am surprised that some of these comments sound intense. Part of what is written might not even be fair, but I am posting it as written. Please take this sufficiently factored down, because I was not there at Cairo to "feel" his speech. The comments are based on my impressions from the speech transcript. It is based on the superficial knowledge that the ITU places the interests of the Telecom companies and the Governments paramount. Also, I have picked up portions of the Secretary General's speech for comments. In this critique, what is missing are positive remarks that are due. It is positive as a gesture on the part of the ITU Secretary General to have extended an arm to work with ICANN and to pronounce a desire to be committed to the mutli-stakeholder approach. But in this message I have chosen to read between the lines of the Secretary General's transcript, just to raise some points for discussion. Comments: since 1865, since the creation of the telegraph. And we are very proud of the way the organization has been able to adapt itself over the years and decades and centuries, from telegraph to telephone to teletypewriters, to radio and television. We are talking about digital broadcasting now. And very soon, 3D television. We are talking about the emergence of new technologies. ITU adopts itself to own all inter-human communication in any form. I was telling to many people from developing countries who were fighting for Internet governance: "Before you get the governance, get the Internet first." Yes, that allows various interests to give shape to the internet in a manner that is most advantageous for commerce and government. After that any process of debate on Governance wouldn't be able to reverse the practices established. ICANN is just ten years old but it's done a great job. Yes, ITU is older. We notice that the ITU has governed Communications around the world for over 143 years. we had a very successful WSIS. For the first time, a UN body was organizing a summit, where you didn't have demonstrations outside. Business and Government kept the Civil Society locked out in several international conventions that were either in the Governments' Diplomatic Territory or Business' Commercial Territory. The Internet is Civil Sphere and the Governments were the latecomers. What ought to have been said here is that the Civil Society included Government and Business and not vice versa. Every time a Web browser establishes a secure connection to a server, ITU's work on PKIs, public key infrastructures, and encryption keys, is used. Our pioneering work on electronic authentication enabled jurisdictions around the world to recognize e-mail as legal documents and to give legal studies to electronic signatures. I can't help notice that most of the work that the ITU has done relates to "authentication", "security" etc. to enable "jurisdiction". Isn't the ITU working on making the Internet what it is not? We [ITU and ICANN] just have to learn to know each other better so that we can like each other and work together. And the main reason why I'm here is that is my motto: " This sounds dangerous. The DOC-supervised ICANN and the inter-governmental ITU aligned together ! IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. I agree. I fully agree. One reason is the limitation of the UN mandate to the IGF. IGF does not even have recommendary 'powers' and the IGF process is in a sense a huge distraction away from the policy changes and new Internet legislations that get enacted in bits and pieces (leading to an untold comprehensive whole) in different parts of the world - for e.g. the move by UK to direct ISPs to retain traffic records for two years. IGF requires a complete re-redesign. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. World Policy Forum? For the ITU to psychologically claim its stake as the ICT super-authority? I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." .... we need to talk about it. And you shouldn't see us as an enemy. I always said that I have enough on my plate in ITU and there is no need to add more. I don't get the feeling that ITU is content with its sphere of influence. If you want an Internet connection for a business or a house, they will ask you first if you have a telephone line. Why do I need an ITU regulated and monitored phone line to qualify for Internet Access? Why isn't the Community doing enough to bring in alternate technologies? During the debates of the WSIS, when people were talking about Internet governance, I was telling them, "Get Internet first before you talk about getting the governance of it." I was giving simple example, comparing Internet and telecommunications to trucks or cars and highways. It's not because you own the highways that you're going to own all the trucks or cars running on them, and certainly not the goods that they are transporting, or vice versa. It's a simple analogy. Great. The road analogy isn't all that perfect as an analogy for the Internet. I will let it go to say that those who owns the roads get to decide who rides and who doesn't and gets to decide what to charge as toll fee. .... the relationship between the Internet and the telecommunication world... And they are condemned to work together. It's a condemned marriage. So better enjoy it. If you know that you're not going to get divorced in any case because you're condemned to live together, you better find a way to enjoy each other, and have kids in the process. The Internet CAN technically divorce the telecoms or even scale up to include telecoms services as part of the internet. It is a condemned marriage alright, but if one partner is too difficult and drives the other to the wall, a divorce isn't technically infeasible. It has been alleged in some corners of the ITU that ITU wishes to govern the Internet. And I have specifically said that I categorically deny that. When someone in government or someone connected to government "denies" something, it is always true. And I say today again to you, it is not the case. My intention as Secretary-General of ITU is not to govern the Internet. But we need to work together, because there are developing countries that are in need of access. At the end of this year, we'll have four billion mobile telephones in the world. While we try to bridge the gap in telephony, we have to ensure that no new gap is created in Internet and no new gap is created in broadband for us to help other sectors to meet the Millennium Development Goals. Therefore, there is a need for these two societies to work together. Almost half of the people in this room are very active participants in the ITU. And, therefore, I think there is room for us to know each other and to understand. ITU's role as a multilateral forum for debate is to serve as a source of impartial expert information and guidance, just as we have done for nearly 145 years. We strive to help all parties work together to clarify the issues and build consensus on the most effective ways of promoting the evolution and uptake of this powerful resource. And we have that capability. We are proud of that culture. It's the only organization where you will have countries that are at war on other fronts, are supporting each other with common resolutions, without the people supporting those resolutions being fired. I'm proud to say that we are the only organization where you have Iran supporting "his friends", I quote, of the United States, or vice versa and the people who have supported that are still alive. It happens on a daily basis. We never had any Palestinian-Israeli crisis inside the ITU. They share spectrums. So we are in a position to work with everyone, because we have a technical approach to issues. Impressive. But aren't you bidding to take over the internet by saying all this ? ITU is also actively encouraging the industry-wide move to IPv6. Again, looking on the Web all of last week, I've seen numerous attacks on the ITU for having pronounced the world IPv6.This is a concern for all of us. Every mobile phone will have an IP address, every fridge, every car, it's an inevitable thing. What concerns me is the fact that IPV6 seems to have obviated (or made impossible) Network Address Translation. This means that everything that I ever say on the Internet is linked to my unique, unchangeable IPV6 address. My computer has an unchanging, permanent IPV6 address. My refrigerator and my MP4 player will have a traceable IPV6 address. Where is my privacy? Perhaps I will be able to borrow my refrigerator's IPV6 address to send an email to my top secret girl friend and in case my wife gets hold of that message I could blame it on the refrigerator? (this comment in particular without in-depth knowledge of the technical architecture of IPV6) In 2005, WSIS mandated ITU to take a lead role in building confidence and security in the use of ICTs. I put in place a high-level expert group last year to study the issue and report to the council, with the final report this year. We are gaining a momentum as we move steadily towards agreements on an international set of principles and best-practice approaches that countries around the world can follow to promote cybersecurity. Security concerns are center stage on the ITU agenda, pushing the need to build (user) Confidence out of view. What has ITU done on the privacy front, to protest against legislations such as directives by UK to ISPs to retain email logs for two years or directives by governments to facilitate recording of mobile phone conversations? Estonian network was down for two days. .. And during the uprising between Georgia and Russia, we have noticed a large number of botnets or cyber attacks between the two countries. That is scary. ... Thank you for drawing attention to the fact that it is sometimes Governments that cause or engineer some of the major cyber incidents? Our children, who spend most of their time in cyberspace, are not taught the basic behaviours in the cyberspace. When they go out in the street, we tell them, "Be careful. Don't talk to strangers, don't accept candy from someone you don't know. It could be a drug that could kill you." But they're out there in cyberspace without telling them what to do or how to behave. Yes, we will make them paranoid. The potential of the Internet to accelerate social and economic development in the world's poorest regions is perhaps its greatest asset. I hope you will support ITU in our ongoing effort to see that everyone everywhere has a chance to benefit from that potential for the betterment of our planet, and for humankind, for all humankind. Sounds rhetorical. We will never counter terrorism if we don't have a harmonized way of tracing back the IP address. ... How would I trust the Law and Order agencies to restrict use of these technologies only against terrorists and criminals and not against the unsuspecting citizens ? ZAHID JAMIL, DNS Resolution Center Pakistan: I am a lawyer from Pakistan. Your Excellency, I heard you talk about the important role that ITU can play in everything from IPv6, the coordination of the IP-based networks, cybersecurity, privacy, data protection, cybersecurity, cyberterrorism, multilingualism, IDNs, a whole bunch of things. My only question is, to what extent do you think ITU would have any restrictions, because it seems it would probably become the regulator in convergence of everything. So is there a limitation you can see as far as the ITU's scope? Touche' WOLFGANG KLEINWÄCHTER, University of Aarhus what is the future of civil society in the ITU? ITU has nearly 200 member states and more than 700 private sector members. When civil society becomes an equal partner in this setting? Is it really possible to believe that the Civil Society would be represented at the ITU so broadly as to balance the 191 member srates and 700 private sector companies? ITU is ITU. It could come to the IGF to represent business and government. If Civil Society focuses its effort on getting better represented at the ITU, some day the IGF could become a part of the ITU. HAMMADOUN TOURE, Secretary General of the ITU Government is in an advisory role. Advisory role! You advise me and I am free to take your advice? Advice from Government always comes with the subtle posture of "It is just an advice or a suggestion, but remember where it comes from" During the WSIS process, we had a problem that some member states have genuinely raised. We have countries like China. During a PrepCom in Japan we spent three days out of four not working because there were some so-called civil society, NGO that were government officials from Taiwan. The Chinese delegation came with their photos and information on them from the Web that they are government officials, and they registered as NGOs. It's a problem. Thank you for bringing that up. This is really an issue about how the Civil Society is constituted at least in parts. We need to clean up a little bit. HAMMADOUN TOURE, Secretary General of the ITU Now, let's be clear. Government cannot get into individual people's privacy. Please, don't. ...... I'm telling you my intention is not, from ITU, to try and take over Internet. When someone in government or someone from an inter-governmental organization talks of an absence of an intention, there is always an intention. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Parminder wrote: >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society's best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively representative of people and groups across the world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on the other. However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. Parminder _____ From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of Ian Peter Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take offence?) My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn't succeed in addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance Subject: ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo Dear Wolfgang Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably about the IGF. The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. Best Francis --------------------------------- http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 7 November 2008, 12:30 ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better collaboration between the International Telecommunication Union[1] (ITU) and the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to prevent it." In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with which ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child protection online. Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the World Summit on the Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than demonstrating outside. In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the Internet Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival event. Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré forthrightly. In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within both models. (Monika Ermert) (lghp[9])
URL of this Article: http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 Links in this Article: [1] http://www.itu.int/ [2] http://www.icann.org [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-beh ind-IPv6--/110960 [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk Dear friends find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 2:18 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 9 04:01:14 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 01:01:14 -0800 Subject: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo References: <20081110061001.B318FA6C24@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <4916A6D9.31CD87C1@ix.netcom.com> Parminder and all, I fear it may already be too late in as far as ICANN, the ITU, and the IETF are concerned. Same may be said in respect to W3C as well. What third world countries represented in ICANN, the ITU, and the IETF are likely all there is going to be and at the levels of effectiveness that will be for decades to come. I can't say for the IG. Parminder wrote: > >>I was telling to many people from developing countries who were > fighting for Internet governance: "Before you get the governance, get > the Internet first." > > >Yes, that allows various interests to give shape to the internet in a > manner that is most advantageous for commerce and government. After > that any >process of debate on Governance wouldn't be able to reverse > the practices established. > > Sivasubramanian, > > You make an important point. The above assertion about focusing on > getting the Internet before seeking a role in IG, which seems to have > some obvious force in its utter simplicity, has been much abused in > the IG space. > > Many already entrenched in important positions vis a vis IG have made > this assertion often. I don�t know whether you followed the clamor > early last year when CIRs were sought to be discussed in the IGF, how > so many voices suddenly begun to claim that the IGF should be looking > mostly at the issue of spreading Internet access, and that the really > disadvantaged people weren�t really bothered with such IG issues at > all. Such patronizing and patently anti-democratic statements bothered > some of us a lot. > > On the other hand, while admittedly the situation regarding access to > the Internet is really dismal in so many parts of the world, what is > unfortunate is that many people who seek to represent the interests of > disadvantaged groups themselves fall into the simplistic trap of > valorizing access and capacity building over IG. This represents the > �basic needs versus governance stakes and rights� dilemma much > discussed in development literature. Both are important and as you > say, if the disadvantaged groups do not stake their rightful claim to > IG now, soon it will be too late, and they will be condemned to live > with an Internet, and an information society, whose architecture is > already cast by the dominant market and statist interests. > > Parminder > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com] > > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 1:42 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Parminder > Cc: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de > Subject: Re: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage > Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > Hello Wolfgang Kleinwaehter and All, > > Here are my comments on the Speech at the ICANN Meeting in Cairo, 6 > November 2008 by Hamadoun Toure, Secretary General of the ITU. When I > read what I wrote, I am surprised that some of these comments sound > intense. Part of what is written might not even be fair, but I am > posting it as written. Please take this sufficiently factored down, > because I was not there at Cairo to "feel" his speech. The comments > are based on my impressions from the speech transcript. It is based on > the superficial knowledge that the ITU places the interests of the > Telecom companies and the Governments paramount. > > Also, I have picked up portions of the Secretary General's speech for > comments. In this critique, what is missing are positive remarks that > are due. It is positive as a gesture on the part of the ITU Secretary > General to have extended an arm to work with ICANN and to pronounce a > desire to be committed to the mutli-stakeholder approach. But in this > message I have chosen to read between the lines of the Secretary > General's transcript, just to raise some points for discussion. > > Comments: > > > since 1865, since the creation of the telegraph. And we are very proud > of the way the organization has been able to adapt itself over the > years and decades and centuries, from telegraph to telephone to > teletypewriters, to radio and television. We are talking about digital > broadcasting now. And very soon, 3D television. We are talking about > the emergence of new technologies. > > ITU adopts itself to own all inter-human communication in any form. > > I was telling to many people from developing countries who were > fighting for Internet governance: "Before you get the governance, get > the Internet first." > > Yes, that allows various interests to give shape to the internet in a > manner that is most advantageous for commerce and government. After > that any process of debate on Governance wouldn't be able to reverse > the practices established. > > ICANN is just ten years old but it's done a great job. > > Yes, ITU is older. We notice that the ITU has governed Communications > around the world for over 143 years. > > we had a very successful WSIS. For the first time, a UN body was > organizing a summit, where you didn't have demonstrations outside. > > Business and Government kept the Civil Society locked out in several > international conventions that were either in the Governments' > Diplomatic Territory or Business' Commercial Territory. The Internet > is Civil Sphere and the Governments were the latecomers. What ought to > have been said here is that the Civil Society included Government and > Business and not vice versa. > > > Every time a Web browser establishes a secure connection to a server, > ITU's work on PKIs, public key infrastructures, and encryption keys, > is used. Our pioneering work on electronic authentication enabled > jurisdictions around the world to recognize e-mail as legal documents > and to give legal studies to electronic signatures. > > I can't help notice that most of the work that the ITU has done > relates to "authentication", "security" etc. to enable "jurisdiction". > Isn't the ITU working on making the Internet what it is not? > > We [ITU and ICANN] just have to learn to know each other better so > that we can like each other and work together. And the main reason why > I'm here is that is my motto: " > > This sounds dangerous. The DOC-supervised ICANN and the > inter-governmental ITU aligned together ! > > > IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes > sometimes a waste of time. > > I agree. I fully agree. One reason is the limitation of the UN mandate > to the IGF. IGF does not even have recommendary 'powers' and the IGF > process is in a sense a huge distraction away from the policy changes > and new Internet legislations that get enacted in bits and pieces > (leading to an untold comprehensive whole) in different parts of the > world - for e.g. the move by UK to direct ISPs to retain traffic > records for two years. IGF requires a complete re-redesign. > > Next year, ITU willorganize the World Policy Forum, which addresses a > number of Internet-related public-policy issues, ranging from > cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and the ongoing > development of Internet. > > World Policy Forum? For the ITU to psychologically claim its stake as > the ICT super-authority? > > I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." .... > we need to talk about it. And you shouldn't see us as an enemy. I > always said that I have enough on my plate in ITU and there is no need > to add more. > > I don't get the feeling that ITU is content with its sphere of > influence. > > If you want an Internet connection for a business or a house, they > will ask you first if you have a telephone line. > > Why do I need an ITU regulated and monitored phone line to qualify for > Internet Access? Why isn't the Community doing enough to bring in > alternate technologies? > > > During the debates of the WSIS, when people were talking about > Internet governance, I was telling them, "Get Internet first before > you talk about getting the governance of it." I was giving simple > example, comparing Internet and telecommunications to trucks or cars > and highways. It's not because you own the highways that you're going > to own all the trucks or cars running on them, and certainly not the > goods that they are transporting, or vice versa. It's a simple > analogy. > > Great. The road analogy isn't all that perfect as an analogy for the > Internet. I will let it go to say that those who owns the roads get to > decide who rides and who doesn't and gets to decide what to charge as > toll fee. > > > .... the relationship between the Internet and the telecommunication > world... And they are condemned to work together. It's a condemned > marriage. So better enjoy it. If you know that you're not going to get > divorced in any case because you're condemned to live together, you > better find a way to enjoy each other, and have kids in the process. > > The Internet CAN technically divorce the telecoms or even scale up to > include telecoms services as part of the internet. It is a condemned > marriage alright, but if one partner is too difficult and drives the > other to the wall, a divorce isn't technically infeasible. > > It has been alleged in some corners of the ITU that ITU wishes to > govern the Internet. And I have specifically said that I categorically > deny that. > > When someone in government or someone connected to government "denies" > something, it is always true. > > And I say today again to you, it is not the case. My intention as > Secretary-General of ITU is not to govern the Internet. But we need to > work together, because there are developing countries that are in need > of access. At the end of this year, we'll have four billion mobile > telephones in the world. While we try to bridge the gap in telephony, > we have to ensure that no new gap is created in Internet and no new > gap is created in broadband for us to help other sectors to meet the > Millennium Development Goals. Therefore, there is a need for these two > societies to work together. Almost half of the people in this room are > very active participants in the ITU. And, therefore, I think there is > room for us to know each other and to understand. > > ITU's role as a multilateral forum for debate is to serve as a source > of impartial expert information and guidance, just as we have done for > nearly 145 years. We strive to help all parties work together to > clarify the issues and build consensus on the most effective ways of > promoting the evolution and uptake of this powerful resource. And we > have that capability. We are proud of that culture. It's the only > organization where you will have countries that are at war on other > fronts, are supporting each other with common resolutions, without the > people supporting those resolutions being fired. I'm proud to say that > we are the only organization where you have Iran supporting "his > friends", I quote, of the United States, or vice versa and the people > who have supported that are still alive. It happens on a daily basis. > We never had any Palestinian-Israeli crisis inside the ITU. They share > spectrums. So we are in a position to work with everyone, because we > have a technical approach to issues. > > Impressive. But aren't you bidding to take over the internet by saying > all this ? > > > ITU is also actively encouraging the industry-wide move to IPv6. > Again, looking on the Web all of last week, I've seen numerous attacks > on the ITU for having pronounced the world IPv6.This is a concern for > all of us. Every mobile phone will have an IP address, every fridge, > every car, it's an inevitable thing. > > What concerns me is the fact that IPV6 seems to have obviated (or made > impossible) Network Address Translation. This means that everything > that I ever say on the Internet is linked to my unique, unchangeable > IPV6 address. My computer has an unchanging, permanent IPV6 address. > My refrigerator and my MP4 player will have a traceable IPV6 address. > Where is my privacy? Perhaps I will be able to borrow my > refrigerator's IPV6 address to send an email to my top secret girl > friend and in case my wife gets hold of that message I could blame it > on the refrigerator? (this comment in particular without in-depth > knowledge of the technical architecture of IPV6) > > In 2005, WSIS mandated ITU to take a lead role in building confidence > and security in the use of ICTs. I put in place a high-level expert > group last year to study the issue and report to the council, with the > final report this year. We are gaining a momentum as we move steadily > towards agreements on an international set of principles and > best-practice approaches that countries around the world can follow to > promote cybersecurity. > > > Security concerns are center stage on the ITU agenda, pushing the need > to build (user) Confidence out of view. What has ITU done on the > privacy front, to protest against legislations such as directives by > UK to ISPs to retain email logs for two years or directives by > governments to facilitate recording of mobile phone conversations? > > Estonian network was down for two days. .. And during the uprising > between Georgia and Russia, we have noticed a large number of botnets > or cyber attacks between the two countries. That is scary. ... > > Thank you for drawing attention to the fact that it is sometimes > Governments that cause or engineer some of the major cyber incidents? > > Our children, who spend most of their time in cyberspace, are not > taught the basic behaviours in the cyberspace. When they go out in the > street, we tell them, "Be careful. Don't talk to strangers, don't > accept candy from someone you don't know. It could be a drug that > could kill you." But they're out there in cyberspace without telling > them what to do or how to behave. > > Yes, we will make them paranoid. > > > The potential of the Internet to accelerate social and economic > development in the world's poorest regions is perhaps its greatest > asset. I hope you will support ITU in our ongoing effort to see that > everyone everywhere has a chance to benefit from that potential for > the betterment of our planet, and for humankind, for all humankind. > > Sounds rhetorical. > > We will never counter terrorism if we don't have a harmonized way of > tracing back the IP address. ... > > How would I trust the Law and Order agencies to restrict use of these > technologies only against terrorists and criminals and not against the > unsuspecting citizens ? > > ZAHID JAMIL, DNS Resolution Center Pakistan: > > I am a lawyer from Pakistan. Your Excellency, I heard you talk about > the important role that ITU can play in everything from IPv6, the > coordination of the IP-based networks, cybersecurity, privacy, data > protection, cybersecurity, cyberterrorism, multilingualism, IDNs, a > whole bunch of things. My only question is, to what extent do you > think ITU would have any restrictions, because it seems it would > probably become the regulator in convergence of everything. So is > there a limitation you can see as far as the ITU's scope? > > Touche' > > WOLFGANG KLEINW?HTER, University of Aarhus > > what is the future of civil society in the ITU? ITU has nearly 200 > member states and more than 700 private sector members. When civil > society becomes an equal partner in this setting? > > Is it really possible to believe that the Civil Society would be > represented at the ITU so broadly as to balance the 191 member srates > and 700 private sector companies? ITU is ITU. It could come to the IGF > to represent business and government. If Civil Society focuses its > effort on getting better represented at the ITU, some day the IGF > could become a part of the ITU. > > HAMMADOUN TOURE, Secretary General of the ITU > > Government is in an advisory role. Advisory role! You advise me and I > am free to take your advice? > > Advice from Government always comes with the subtle posture of "It is > just an advice or a suggestion, but remember where it comes from" > > During the WSIS process, we had a problem that some member states have > genuinely raised. We have countries like China. During a PrepCom in > Japan we spent three days out of four not working because there were > some so-called civil society, NGO that were government officials from > Taiwan. The Chinese delegation came with their photos and information > on them from the Web that they are government officials, and they > registered as NGOs. It's a problem. > > Thank you for bringing that up. This is really an issue about how the > Civil Society is constituted at least in parts. We need to clean up a > little bit. > > HAMMADOUN TOURE, Secretary General of the ITU > > Now, let's be clear. Government cannot get into individual people's > privacy. > > Please, don't. > > > ...... I'm telling you my intention is not, from ITU, to try and take > over Internet. > > When someone in government or someone from an inter-governmental > organization talks of an absence of an intention, there is always an > intention. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Parminder > wrote: > >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically > sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take > offence?) > > Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. > > Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society's > best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively > representative of people and groups across the world, and still has > been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the > one side and corporate control on the other. > > However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, > have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the > IGF in all ways that we can � whether the issue has been of some > substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group > (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and > giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. > > I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this > issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be > taken in view of current and emergent realities. > > It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of > being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real > importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in > terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a > review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to > engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review > is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process > of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, > Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some > important implications for this review. > > Parminder > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org]On > Behalf Of Ian Peter > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > > Cc: 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' > Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: > [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion > that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding > issues � it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > > Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically > sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take > offence?) > > My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn't succeed in addressing > the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation > or globalisation? Take your pick�. > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > Sent: 09 November 2008 15:44 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > Cc: WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > Subject: ITU and ICANN � a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] > ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > Dear Wolfgang > > Interesting to notice a press analysis of Tour? speech, most notably > about the IGF. > > The statement from Tour?as not been unnoticed. > > Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in > the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the > result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally > believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the > topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address > issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I > should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each > other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, > which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, > ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and > the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, > "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone. > > Best Francis > > --------------------------------- > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/1119147 November 2008, 12:30 > > ITU and ICANN � a loveless forced marriage > > ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Tour?as called for better collaboration > between the International Telecommunication Union[1] (ITU) and > the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2] (ICANN). > "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each other and > I think we should put an end to that," said Tour?n Thursday at the > 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Tour?the two organisations > need to get to know each other better and learn to love each other, as > telecommunications and the internet are ultimately condemned to a > "forced marriage". > > Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare > the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Tour?ade it > clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as playing > the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion of the > other party clear � provocatively describing ICANN's Governmental > Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. > > The depth of the chasm between the two � the UN organisation, which > has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the > quasi-internet-regulator ICANN � was stressed by a series of further > statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. > Tour?epeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. > According to Tour?who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, > is to prevent it." > > In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to > the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, > include the internationalisation of domains, something with which > ICANN is currently engaged, the transition to IPv6[3], standardisation > for the all-IP Next Generation Network[4] (NGN), cyber-security, the > fight against online terrorism and child protection online. > > Tour?ejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global > regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear > boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he > underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its Cybersecurity > Agenda[5], to be responsible for a global framework in the fight > against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the > controversial IP traceback[6] standard proposal. "There is not one > country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it > differently," said Tour?/font> > > Tour?lso rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed doors. > He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members from the > telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. Tour?lso > praised the ITU's openness � a nod to the World Summit on the > Information Society[7] (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU > auspices, is, according to Tour?the first UN summit at which civil > society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than > demonstrating outside. > > In the same breath, Tour?xpressed strong criticism of the Internet > Governance Forum[8] (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, "I > am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going round > in circles and avoiding issues � it is becoming more and more a waste > of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for internet > policy next year as a rival event. > > Tour?lso fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work performed > by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory Committee is > ICANN's weak point," said Tour?His criticism was directed at the > advisory function of the Governmental Advisory Committee (GAC) in > developing rules for the domain name system. "If someone gives me > advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The ICANN's GAC is > therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Tour?orthrightly. > > In a short statement following Tour? speech, the Brazilian government > representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and the > Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian > diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted > that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political > models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the > ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, > whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, > he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested > parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and > disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within > both models. > > (Monika Ermert) > > (lghp[9]) >
> URL of this Article: > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > > Links in this Article: > [1] http://www.itu.int/ > [2] http://www.icann.org > [3] > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > > [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > > Dear friends > > > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > > > Wolfgang > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > -- > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From anja at itforchange.net Mon Nov 10 02:32:22 2008 From: anja at itforchange.net (Anja) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 13:02:22 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <20081109062555.8DB4EE049D@smtp3.electricembers.net> References: <20081109062555.8DB4EE049D@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <4917E386.9070703@itforchange.net> Param, doesn't the IGF start on the 3rd? Anja Parminder wrote: > > Ian > > After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at > IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of > 1^st (eve of IGF) or 2^nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who > will be attending. > > I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should > evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage > with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF > review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. > > I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. > > Parminder > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM > *To:* 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder' > *Subject:* RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless > forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before pressing > send. That was meant to be offlist…. > > Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to discuss in > any case. > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > *Sent:* 09 November 2008 17:14 > *To:* 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder' > *Subject:* OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced > marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > Hi Parminder, > > Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before > Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night before > IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in early and be > sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something like that seems > important). I’ll respond but will be interested to see what others say > first. > > On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for your > co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release names > periodically as they are received and certainly before Hyderabad. I am > going to leave nominations open until post Hyderabad so that members > can review nominees, talk to them, add names if no-one good is > forthcoming etc before vote starts. I think that might be the way to > get the best field. > > All the best, > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > *Sent:* 09 November 2008 16:51 > *To:* 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; > governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > *Subject:* RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage > Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically > sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues (lest anyone take > offence?) > > Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. > > Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil society’s > best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that is relatively > representative of people and groups across the world, and still has > been able to maintain some distance from strong statist control on the > one side and corporate control on the other. > > However, many others in the civil society, including within the IGC, > have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind strengthening the > IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue has been of some > substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity of the core IGF group > (currently named MAG) or doing substantive inter-sessional work and > giving some kind of real, if non-binding, outputs on key IG issues. > > I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on this > issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need to be > taken in view of current and emergent realities. > > It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of > being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real > importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in > terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a > review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to > engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review > is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process > of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, > Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some > important implications for this review. > > Parminder > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] *On > Behalf Of *Ian Peter > *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > *Cc:* 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' > *Subject:* [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: > [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion > that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding > issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > > Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we diplomatically > sweeping under the carpet all the important issues (lest anyone take > offence?) > > My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in addressing > the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. Balkanisation > or globalisation? Take your pick…. > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] > ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > Dear Wolfgang > > Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most notably > about the IGF. > > The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > > /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively in > the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as the > result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I personally > believe that the IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the > topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need to address > issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I thought I > should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to know each > other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy Forum, > which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy issues, > ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to multilingualism and > the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, > "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for everyone./ > > > > Best Francis > > --------------------------------- > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 > > 7 November 2008, 12:30 > > > *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* > > ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better > collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1]* > (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers[2]* > (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and criticised each > other and I think we should put an end to that," said Touré on > Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to Touré, the > two organisations need to get to know each other better and learn to > love each other, as telecommunications and the internet are ultimately > condemned to a "forced marriage". > > Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not spare > the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. Touré made > it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his organisation as > playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and made his opinion > of the other party clear – provocatively describing ICANN's > Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. > > The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which > has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the > quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further > statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré > repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. According > to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a war, is to > prevent it." > > In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to > the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he noted, > include the internationalisation of domains, something with which > ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, > standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), > cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child > protection online. > > Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global > regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear > boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he > underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its *Cybersecurity > Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global framework in the fight > against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the > controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard proposal. "There is not one > country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it > differently," said Touré. > > Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed > doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members > from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. > Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the *World Summit on > the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU > auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil > society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than > demonstrating outside. > > In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the *Internet > Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, > "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going > round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a > waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for > internet policy next year as a rival event. > > Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work > performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory > Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was > directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory > Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If > someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The > ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré > forthrightly. > > In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian > government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and > the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian > diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast noted > that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different political > models, "From the viewpoint of an international organisation, the > ICANN model may appear weak, because governments are merely advisory, > whilst in an international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, > he opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between interested > parties. He noted that both models have their advantages and > disadvantages, and that governments need to learn to operate within > both models. > > (//Monika Ermert//) > > (*lghp[9]*) > >
> > **URL of this Article:** > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > > **Links in this Article:** > [1] http://www.itu.int/ > [2] http://www.icann.org > [3] > http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > > Dear friends > > find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. > > Wolfgang > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > -- > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > -- Dr. Anja Kovacs Senior Research Associate IT for Change Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890 www.ITforChange.net www.IS-Watch.net http://India.IS-Watch.net ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dogwallah at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 02:41:53 2008 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:41:53 +0300 Subject: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 9, 2008 at 9:50 PM, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy < isolatedn at gmail.com> wrote: > I am not so well educated on the technical nuances of IPV6. I notice that > you have described ipV4 as "static" - Is ipV6 dynamic, is it designed to be > "not-static" ? > it's not so cut and dried as "more or less static" For example if you have a statically assigned v4 block (may be just one address) from your provider, you will probably get a statically assigned IPv6 block (the minimum size for residentail services seems to be a /64 (18,446,744,073,709,551,616 IPv6 addresses). if you have IPv4 via DHCP, then you may or may not get a dynamic assignment of IPv6 the same way. http://www.tcpipguide.com/free/t_IPv6AutoconfigurationandRenumbering.htm and 10+ answers to your questions about IPv6 | 10 Things | TechRepublic.com will be helpful here. -- Cheers, McTim http://stateoftheinternetin.ug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bortzmeyer at internatif.org Mon Nov 10 03:07:16 2008 From: bortzmeyer at internatif.org (Stephane Bortzmeyer) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:07:16 +0100 Subject: [governance] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage In-Reply-To: References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <20081110080716.GA18881@nic.fr> On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 01:42:15PM +0530, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote a message of 1704 lines which said: > Here are my comments on the Speech at the ICANN Meeting in Cairo, 6 > November 2008 by Hamadoun Toure, Unfortunately, your text is very difficult to read because nothing differentiates the text from Toure and your comments. > *IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes > sometimes a waste of time. * > > *I agree. I fully agree. That's just a typical example. Did Toure said the IGF is a waste of time (undiplomatic but realistic) or was it you? ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bortzmeyer at internatif.org Mon Nov 10 03:26:15 2008 From: bortzmeyer at internatif.org (Stephane Bortzmeyer) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 09:26:15 +0100 Subject: [governance] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage In-Reply-To: References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <20081110082615.GB18881@nic.fr> On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 01:42:15PM +0530, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote a message of 1704 lines which said: > What concerns me is the fact that IPV6 seems to have obviated (or > made impossible) Network Address Translation. Making NAT unnecessary was certainly one of the requirements of IPv6. Making it impossible would have been... impossible. Even with IPv6, people still have the ability to do stupid things like NAT. > This means that everything that I ever say on the Internet is linked > to my unique, unchangeable IPV6 address. Completely wrong: even if you don't move your physical location and you do not change your ISP, you can still use the temporary untraceable addresses of RFC 4941 'Privacy Extensions for Stateless Address Autoconfiguration in IPv6'. On Linux: net/ipv6/conf/default/use_tempaddr = 1 in /etc/sysctl.conf > (this comment in particular without in-depth knowledge of the > technical architecture of IPV6) Indeed. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 03:50:48 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:20:48 +0530 Subject: [governance] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage In-Reply-To: <20081110080716.GA18881@nic.fr> References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> <20081110080716.GA18881@nic.fr> Message-ID: Hello Stephane Bortzmeyer, On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer < bortzmeyer at internatif.org> wrote: > On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 01:42:15PM +0530, > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote > a message of 1704 lines which said: > > > Here are my comments on the Speech at the ICANN Meeting in Cairo, 6 > > November 2008 by Hamadoun Toure, > > Unfortunately, your text is very difficult to read because nothing > differentiates the text from Toure and your comments. If my message was displayed as Text, it must have been very difficult to separate my comments from Dr Toure's speech. I have published a html version of the message at page http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dgt5c8s_86mjf8srhj My comments are in bold, extract of Dr Toure's speech is in Italitcs. > > > > *IGF is just going around and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes > > sometimes a waste of time. * > > > > *I agree. I fully agree. > > That's just a typical example. Did Toure said the IGF is a waste of > time (undiplomatic but realistic) or was it you? It was Dr Toure who said that. Thank you Sivasubramanian Muthusamy -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Mon Nov 10 03:52:15 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:22:15 +0530 Subject: [governance] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage In-Reply-To: <20081110082615.GB18881@nic.fr> References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> <20081110082615.GB18881@nic.fr> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Stephane Bortzmeyer < bortzmeyer at internatif.org> wrote: > On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 01:42:15PM +0530, > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote > a message of 1704 lines which said: > > > What concerns me is the fact that IPV6 seems to have obviated (or > > made impossible) Network Address Translation. > > Making NAT unnecessary was certainly one of the requirements of > IPv6. Making it impossible would have been... impossible. Even with > IPv6, people still have the ability to do stupid things like NAT. > > > This means that everything that I ever say on the Internet is linked > > to my unique, unchangeable IPV6 address. > > Completely wrong: even if you don't move your physical location and > you do not change your ISP, you can still use the temporary > untraceable addresses of RFC 4941 'Privacy Extensions for Stateless > Address Autoconfiguration in IPv6'. > > On Linux: > > net/ipv6/conf/default/use_tempaddr = 1 > > in /etc/sysctl.conf > > > (this comment in particular without in-depth knowledge of the > > technical architecture of IPV6) > > Indeed. > Thank you. I have learnt a little more about ipV6 from your helpful clarification. -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bortzmeyer at internatif.org Mon Nov 10 04:06:27 2008 From: bortzmeyer at internatif.org (Stephane Bortzmeyer) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:06:27 +0100 Subject: [governance] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage In-Reply-To: References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> <20081110080716.GA18881@nic.fr> Message-ID: <20081110090627.GA26415@nic.fr> On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 02:20:48PM +0530, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote a message of 74 lines which said: > If my message was displayed as Text, Yes, it was. I do not use HTML for email. > My comments are in bold, extract of Dr Toure's speech is in > Italitcs. Why not using the standard form of (the > character) for quotations? ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 9 06:36:27 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 03:36:27 -0800 Subject: [governance] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <20081109055100.AEC23E0401@smtp3.electricembers.net> <20081110082615.GB18881@nic.fr> Message-ID: <4916CB3B.94910982@ix.netcom.com> Siva and all, There is allot of bad information about IPv6, and NAT's floating around. Nat's are not in and of themselves stupid to use, they CAN and often ARE used stupidly, IPv6 not withstanding. Nat's are going to be around and increasing in number for many years to come. Sometimes for good reasons and sometimes not. As for static IP's for either IPv6 or IPv4, you may get a static IP assinged for either, ergo, such is not an issue really. Autoinstall for IPv6 is massively insecure and should not be used. But it will likely be predominant. As such, Internet security will go through another round of security problems not yet seen. But that's good business for me, bad business overall and bad policy for stakeholders. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Stephane > Bortzmeyer wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 09, 2008 at 01:42:15PM +0530, > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote > a message of 1704 lines which said: > > > What concerns me is the fact that IPV6 seems to have > obviated (or > > made impossible) Network Address Translation. > > Making NAT unnecessary was certainly one of the requirements > of > IPv6. Making it impossible would have been... impossible. > Even with > IPv6, people still have the ability to do stupid things like > NAT. > > > This means that everything that I ever say on the Internet > is linked > > to my unique, unchangeable IPV6 address. > > Completely wrong: even if you don't move your physical > location and > you do not change your ISP, you can still use the temporary > untraceable addresses of RFC 4941 'Privacy Extensions for > Stateless > Address Autoconfiguration in IPv6'. > > On Linux: > > net/ipv6/conf/default/use_tempaddr = 1 > > in /etc/sysctl.conf > > > (this comment in particular without in-depth knowledge of > the > > technical architecture of IPV6) > > Indeed. > > > Thank you. I have learnt a little more about ipV6 from your helpful > clarification. > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From marzouki at ras.eu.org Mon Nov 10 14:03:50 2008 From: marzouki at ras.eu.org (Meryem Marzouki) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 20:03:50 +0100 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <4917E386.9070703@itforchange.net> References: <20081109062555.8DB4EE049D@smtp3.electricembers.net> <4917E386.9070703@itforchange.net> Message-ID: Hi Anja and all You're right, the IGF starts on the 3rd (Wednesday), and GigaNet symposium is held on the 2nd, until 18:30. Having an IGC meeting right after GigaNet business meeting (i.e. 18:30-20:30) could be an option, especially since, most probably, we could keep the same room (Parminder, I can ask if you want me to do so, since I'm anyhow in contact with the IGF secretariat and with HICC event manager re: logistics issues). Best, Meryem -- Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire 40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris Le 10 nov. 08 à 08:32, Anja a écrit : > Param, doesn't the IGF start on the 3rd? > > Anja > > Parminder wrote: >> >> Ian >> >> After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC >> meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does >> the evening of 1^st (eve of IGF) or 2^nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound >> to all those who will be attending. >> >> I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF >> should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting >> to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the >> IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, >> onwards. >> >> I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. >> >> Parminder >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM >> *To:* 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder' >> *Subject:* RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >> >> Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before >> pressing send. That was meant to be offlist…. >> >> Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to >> discuss in any case. >> >> Ian Peter >> >> PO Box 429 >> >> Bangalow NSW 2479 >> >> Australia >> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> >> www.ianpeter.com >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 17:14 >> *To:* 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder' >> *Subject:* OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >> >> Hi Parminder, >> >> Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before >> Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night >> before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in >> early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something >> like that seems important). I’ll respond but will be interested to >> see what others say first. >> >> On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for >> your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release >> names periodically as they are received and certainly before >> Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post >> Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add >> names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I >> think that might be the way to get the best field. >> >> All the best, >> >> Ian Peter >> >> PO Box 429 >> >> Bangalow NSW 2479 >> >> Australia >> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> >> www.ianpeter.com >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> *From:* Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 16:51 >> *To:* 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; >> governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' >> *Subject:* RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced >> marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >> >> >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues >> (lest anyone take offence?) >> >> Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. >> >> Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil >> society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that >> is relatively representative of people and groups across the >> world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from >> strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on >> the other. >> >> However, many others in the civil society, including within the >> IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind >> strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue >> has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity >> of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive >> inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, >> outputs on key IG issues. >> >> I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on >> this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need >> to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. >> >> It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the >> danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of >> any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would >> it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In >> light of such a review we may need to have clearer common >> positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want >> to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative >> in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start >> in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said >> and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications >> for this review. >> >> Parminder >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> *From:* gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] >> *On Behalf Of *Ian Peter >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' >> *Cc:* 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' >> *Subject:* [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage >> Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >> >> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the >> opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and >> avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." >> >> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues >> (lest anyone take offence?) >> >> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in >> addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does >> succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick…. >> >> Ian Peter >> >> PO Box 429 >> >> Bangalow NSW 2479 >> >> Australia >> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> >> www.ianpeter.com >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> >> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang >> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance >> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: >> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >> >> Dear Wolfgang >> >> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most >> notably about the IGF. >> >> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. >> >> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate >> actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was >> established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at >> the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around >> and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of >> time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And >> that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that >> we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize >> the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet- >> related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data >> protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of >> Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about >> Internet." It's an issue for everyone./ >> >> >> >> Best Francis >> >> --------------------------------- >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 >> >> 7 November 2008, 12:30 >> >> >> *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* >> >> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better >> collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1] >> * (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and >> Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and >> criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," >> said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. >> According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each >> other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications >> and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". >> >> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not >> spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. >> Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his >> organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage >> and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively >> describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely >> cosmetic. >> >> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, >> which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi- >> internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further >> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. >> Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. >> According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win >> a war, is to prevent it." >> >> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively >> to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he >> noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with >> which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, >> standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), >> cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child >> protection online. >> >> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as >> global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has >> clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." >> However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its >> *Cybersecurity Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global >> framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. >> He also defended the controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard >> proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's >> just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. >> >> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed >> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector >> members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs >> as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the >> *World Summit on the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, >> organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN >> summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the >> table, rather than demonstrating outside. >> >> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the >> *Internet Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being >> by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is >> continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is >> becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is >> planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival >> event. >> >> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work >> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory >> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was >> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory >> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. >> "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." >> The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted >> Touré forthrightly. >> >> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian >> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his >> and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". >> Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by >> contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very >> different political models, "From the viewpoint of an >> international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, >> because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an >> international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he >> opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between >> interested parties. He noted that both models have their >> advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn >> to operate within both models. >> >> (//Monika Ermert//) >> >> (*lghp[9]*) >> >>
>> >> **URL of this Article:** >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 >> >> **Links in this Article:** >> [1] http://www.itu.int/ >> [2] http://www.icann.org >> [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw- >> their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 >> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking >> [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ >> [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html >> [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS >> [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ >> [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk >> >> Dear friends >> find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent >> ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very >> interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the >> principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very >> clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion >> and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual >> debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of >> cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of >> an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a >> network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and >> coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> -- >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM >> >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM >> > > -- > Dr. Anja Kovacs > Senior Research Associate > > IT for Change > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities > Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890 > > www.ITforChange.net > www.IS-Watch.net > http://India.IS-Watch.net > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From marzouki at ras.eu.org Mon Nov 10 13:28:01 2008 From: marzouki at ras.eu.org (Meryem Marzouki) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 19:28:01 +0100 Subject: [governance] Reminder - GigaNet Symposium Registration Message-ID: <5F7EA81A-DE8A-4543-81CE-EE340C4B269A@ras.eu.org> Dear all, To those of us who plan to attend the 3rd GigaNet Academic Symposium on Internet Governance : please don't forget to register ASAP (registration form attached, attendance is free and open to all interested parties). A participant list will be printed with name, institution, country (subject to agreement provided in registration form). This is also needed for logistics issues. The Symposium will be held on Tuesday 2 December, 08:30-18:30. The Symposium agenda is available at: http://tinyurl.com/ynsuuf Best regards, Meryem Marzouki, Chair of program committee ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3rdGigaNetRegistrationForm.rtf Type: text/rtf Size: 46285 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- -- Meryem Marzouki LIP6/PolyTIC - CNRS 104 avenue du Président Kennedy - 75016 Paris http://www-polytic.lip6.fr Tel. +33(0)144278881 - Fax. +33(0)144277495 From jeremy.shtern at umontreal.ca Mon Nov 10 14:47:00 2008 From: jeremy.shtern at umontreal.ca (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Shtern_J=E9r=E9my?=) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:47:00 -0500 Subject: [governance] Reminder - GigaNet Symposium Registration References: <5F7EA81A-DE8A-4543-81CE-EE340C4B269A@ras.eu.org> Message-ID: Hi Myrem, Please find my form attached to this email. Merci et on vas se voir a Hydrebad. -Jeremy Shtern ________________________________ From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] Sent: Mon 11/10/2008 1:28 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] Reminder - GigaNet Symposium Registration Dear all, To those of us who plan to attend the 3rd GigaNet Academic Symposium on Internet Governance : please don't forget to register ASAP (registration form attached, attendance is free and open to all interested parties). A participant list will be printed with name, institution, country (subject to agreement provided in registration form). This is also needed for logistics issues. The Symposium will be held on Tuesday 2 December, 08:30-18:30. The Symposium agenda is available at: http://tinyurl.com/ynsuuf Best regards, Meryem Marzouki, Chair of program committee ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: winmail.dat Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 21643 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shailam at yahoo.com Mon Nov 10 15:12:08 2008 From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 12:12:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [governance] Reminder - GigaNet Symposium Registration References: <5F7EA81A-DE8A-4543-81CE-EE340C4B269A@ras.eu.org> Message-ID: <570740.83240.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Jeremy Can you     send    link for   this registration regards Shaila    Mistry       ________________________________ From: Shtern Jérémy To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Meryem Marzouki Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:47:00 AM Subject: RE: [governance] Reminder - GigaNet Symposium Registration Hi Myrem, Please find my form attached to this email. Merci et on vas se voir a Hydrebad. -Jeremy Shtern ________________________________ From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] Sent: Mon 11/10/2008 1:28 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] Reminder - GigaNet Symposium Registration Dear all, To those of us who plan to attend the 3rd GigaNet Academic Symposium on Internet Governance : please don't forget to register ASAP (registration form attached, attendance is free and open to all interested parties). A participant list will be printed with name, institution, country (subject to agreement provided in registration form). This is also needed for logistics issues. The Symposium will be held on Tuesday 2 December, 08:30-18:30. The Symposium agenda is available at: http://tinyurl.com/ynsuuf Best regards, Meryem Marzouki, Chair of program committee ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list:     governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to:     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see:     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list:     governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to:     governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see:     http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Mon Nov 10 19:16:17 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:16:17 +1100 Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator Message-ID: <8CF427AC339E491F8A3A2527A13C8AE3@IAN> This is a call for nominations for a Co-coordinator of the Internet Governance Caucus to replace Parminder, whose term expires at the end of the Hyderabad meeting. An election will be held as soon as is practical after the end of this years IGF meeting. Either self nominations or third party nominations are perfectly acceptable and should be sent to me by private email (ian.peter at ianpeter.com). If nominating another person, however, I would ask that you check with them as to their willingness to take this on. I will acknowledge nominations received by return email. I will periodically announce nominations that have been received. Nominations will close December 7 when I will release a final list of nominations with short biographical details. An election will then be held. Please give serious thought to this. The Co-cordinator position is for a two year term. This will be an important period for us as it will lead us to the end of the fifth (and perhaps final) IGF meeting. The first and most important duty of the coordinator(s) is to facilitate the discussions and enable the members of the caucus to reach consensus whenever possible. This is an election, therefore anyone IGC member who feels able to do this should feel free to nominate, and each of us will have our own criteria for the ideal candidate. I should say that in my mind an ideal candidate will be someone who is already involved with IGC, IGF and its processes, is able to fund their participation in IGF meetings, has good people skills and consensus seeking skills, lots of energy, and a small amount of time to devote to this each week. Please feel free to contact me if you need further information. I welcome all nominations and look forward to receiving them. Ian Peter ( ongoing Co-coordinator) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Tue Nov 11 00:59:12 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 14:59:12 +0900 Subject: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] In-Reply-To: <49172624.9050905@wzb.eu> References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <49172624.9050905@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <771263C4-2BFA-40BA-97FD-7F2BC998DDE5@graduateinstitute.ch> Hi Jeanette, Yes, it is unusual. Imagine the SG of the WTO or WIPO standing up at an international meeting and saying that another international organization or UN SG-approved activity is just "a waste of time." It's also not an off the cuff comment, nor a new view. And two sentences later, the uber-inclusive ITU's WTPF is held up as a place where, in contrast, things do get addressed and done. So I agree, it has to be read in the context of the IGF's upcoming evaluation, and the CS approach to the evaluation has to be considered in relation to this and other positions being staked out by governments etc. Cheer Bill On Nov 10, 2008, at 3:04 AM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > > > Ian Peter wrote: >> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the >> opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and >> avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > > This is a surprisingly rude remark for a diplomat. As if not all UN > organizations shared (and suffered from) the problem of "going > round in circles" and wasting time. Probably this has to be read in > the context of the IGF's upcoming evaluation? > jeanette >> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues >> (lest anyone take offence?) >> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in >> addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does >> succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick…. >> Ian Peter >> PO Box 429 >> Bangalow NSW 2479 >> Australia >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> www.ianpeter.com >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang >> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance >> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: >> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >> Dear Wolfgang >> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most >> notably about the IGF. >> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. >> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate >> actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was >> established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at >> the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around >> and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of >> time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And >> that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that >> we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize >> the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet- >> related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data >> protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of >> Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about >> Internet." It's an issue for everyone./ >> Best Francis >> --------------------------------- >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 >> 7 November 2008, 12:30 >> *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* >> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better >> collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1] >> * (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and >> Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and >> criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," >> said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. >> According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each >> other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications >> and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". >> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not >> spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. >> Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his >> organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage >> and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively >> describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely >> cosmetic. >> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, >> which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi- >> internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further >> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. >> Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. >> According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win >> a war, is to prevent it." >> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively >> to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he >> noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with >> which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, >> standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), >> cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child >> protection online. >> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as >> global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has >> clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." >> However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its >> *Cybersecurity Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global >> framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. >> He also defended the controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard >> proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's >> just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. >> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed >> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector >> members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs >> as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the >> *World Summit on the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, >> organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN >> summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the >> table, rather than demonstrating outside. >> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the >> *Internet Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being >> by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is >> continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is >> becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is >> planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival >> event. >> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work >> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory >> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was >> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory >> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. >> "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." >> The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted >> Touré forthrightly. >> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian >> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his >> and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". >> Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by >> contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very >> different political models, "From the viewpoint of an >> international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, >> because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an >> international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he >> opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between >> interested parties. He noted that both models have their >> advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn >> to operate within both models. >> (//Monika Ermert//) >> (*lghp[9]*) >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> size=2 width="100%" align=center> >> **URL of this Article:** >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 >> **Links in this Article:** >> [1] http://www.itu.int/ >> [2] http://www.icann.org >> [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw- >> their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 >> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking >> [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ >> [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html >> [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS >> [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ >> [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk >> Dear friends >> find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent >> ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very >> interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the >> principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very >> clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion >> and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual >> debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of >> cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of >> an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a >> network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and >> coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> -- >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeanette at wzb.eu Tue Nov 11 04:04:23 2008 From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:04:23 +0000 Subject: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] In-Reply-To: <771263C4-2BFA-40BA-97FD-7F2BC998DDE5@graduateinstitute.ch> References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> <49172624.9050905@wzb.eu> <771263C4-2BFA-40BA-97FD-7F2BC998DDE5@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: <49194A97.6090803@wzb.eu> William Drake wrote: > Hi Jeanette, > > Yes, it is unusual. Imagine the SG of the WTO or WIPO standing up at an > international meeting and saying that another international organization > or UN SG-approved activity is just "a waste of time." It's also not an > off the cuff comment, nor a new view. And two sentences later, the > uber-inclusive ITU's WTPF is held up as a place where, in contrast, > things do get addressed and done. So I agree, it has to be read in the > context of the IGF's upcoming evaluation, and the CS approach to the > evaluation has to be considered in relation to this and other positions > being staked out by governments etc. Thanks Bill, this is what I meant. We need to take into consideration how the IGF is regarded in the context of the UN institutional structure. I wouldn't suggest that we should defend the IGF because of criticisms from other UN organizations but that it would be appropriate for us to go for a comparative approach: How effective, inclusive and accountable are international organizations and how does the IGF within the confines of its its mission figure in this? We need to be realistic about our benchmarks when we assess the IGF. (And so should the ITU...) jeanette > > Cheer > > Bill > > On Nov 10, 2008, at 3:04 AM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > >> >> >> Ian Peter wrote: >>> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion >>> that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding >>> issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." >> >> This is a surprisingly rude remark for a diplomat. As if not all UN >> organizations shared (and suffered from) the problem of "going round >> in circles" and wasting time. Probably this has to be read in the >> context of the IGF's upcoming evaluation? >> jeanette >>> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some >>> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we >>> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues >>> (lest anyone take offence?) >>> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in >>> addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does succeed. >>> Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick…. >>> Ian Peter >>> PO Box 429 >>> Bangalow NSW 2479 >>> Australia >>> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >>> www.ianpeter.com >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] >>> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 >>> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang >>> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance >>> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: >>> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo >>> Dear Wolfgang >>> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most >>> notably about the IGF. >>> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. >>> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate actively >>> in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was established as >>> the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at the WSIS. I >>> personally believe that the IGF is just going around and around, >>> avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of time. We need >>> to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And that's why I >>> thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that we learn to >>> know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize the World Policy >>> Forum, which addresses a number of Internet-related public-policy >>> issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data protection to >>> multilingualism and the ongoing development of Internet. I hope you >>> will not tell me here, "Don't talk about Internet." It's an issue for >>> everyone./ >>> Best Francis >>> --------------------------------- >>> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 >>> 7 November 2008, 12:30 >>> *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* >>> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better >>> collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1]* >>> (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and >>> Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and >>> criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," said >>> Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. According to >>> Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each other better >>> and learn to love each other, as telecommunications and the internet >>> are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". >>> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not >>> spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. >>> Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his >>> organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage and >>> made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively describing >>> ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely cosmetic. >>> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, which >>> has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the >>> quasi-internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further >>> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. Touré >>> repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. >>> According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win a >>> war, is to prevent it." >>> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively to >>> the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he >>> noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with >>> which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, >>> standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), >>> cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child >>> protection online. >>> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as global >>> regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has clear >>> boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." However, he >>> underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its *Cybersecurity >>> Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global framework in the fight >>> against online terrorism and criminality. He also defended the >>> controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard proposal. "There is not one >>> country which isn't doing it, it's just that each country is doing it >>> differently," said Touré. >>> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed >>> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector members >>> from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs as members. >>> Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the *World Summit on >>> the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, organised under ITU >>> auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN summit at which civil >>> society has also been invited to sit at the table, rather than >>> demonstrating outside. >>> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the *Internet >>> Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being by the WSIS, >>> "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is continuously going >>> round in circles and avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a >>> waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is planning a global forum for >>> internet policy next year as a rival event. >>> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work >>> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory >>> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was >>> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory >>> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. "If >>> someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." The >>> ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted Touré >>> forthrightly. >>> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian >>> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his and >>> the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". Latvian >>> diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by contrast >>> noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very different >>> political models, "From the viewpoint of an international >>> organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, because governments >>> are merely advisory, whilst in an international organisation they run >>> the show." ICANN is, he opined, based on the novel idea of >>> collaboration between interested parties. He noted that both models >>> have their advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to >>> learn to operate within both models. >>> (//Monika Ermert//) >>> (*lghp[9]*) >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> size=2 width="100%" align=center> >>> **URL of this Article:** >>> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 >>> **Links in this Article:** >>> [1] http://www.itu.int/ >>> [2] http://www.icann.org >>> [3] >>> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw-their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 >>> >>> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking >>> [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ >>> [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html >>> [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS >>> [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ >>> [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk >>> Dear friends >>> find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent ICANN >>> meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very interesting >>> dialogue on the concept and understanding of the principle of >>> "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very clear and frank >>> language which will certainly provoke discussion and could be an >>> interesting starting point for a new conceptual debate on what >>> "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of cultures in >>> Internet policy development and how the old model of an hierachical >>> top down IG organisation and the new model of a network bottom up MS >>> organisation can or can not collaborate and coexist in the global >>> diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >>> >>> For all list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >>> -- >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: >>> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Tue Nov 11 10:26:44 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 20:56:44 +0530 Subject: [governance] The Internet Governance Project on Toure's Speech Message-ID: Hello All, The IGP says that "Toure and ITU are still pushing for an Internet Counter-revolution" http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog/_archives/2008/11/11/3972346.html -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy India. http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 10 20:08:11 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:08:11 -0800 Subject: [governance] Re: [A2k] EU Council refuses to release secret ACTA documents References: <200811111312.02628.ante@ffii.org> Message-ID: <4918DAFA.9F28AE34@ix.netcom.com> Ante and all, This is indeed unfortunate and not seeminly in keeping with the EU's position of openess and transparency. Very undiplomatic of them to act is suh a errant and inconsistant manner. Perhaps the EC will rethink this action are return to their stated principals soon. Ante wrote: > Our yesterday's PR. > > We believe that, to stop ACTA in Europe, parliaments (both national and > European Parliament) have to make Parliamentary scrutiny reservations. > > Without such reservations, ministers can just vote yes in the European > Council. With such reservations, they can not just do that. That may block a > Council qualified majority. > > >From there on parliaments can ask for transparency, study the vetoes on > aspects of ACTA they have, and proportionality. > > The EP reservation is needed to study the text and decide whether the EP > vetoes apply and should be used. > > http://action.ffii.org/acta/Analysis > > kind regards, > > Ante > > ======================================================================= > EU Council refuses to release secret ACTA documents > ======================================================================= > > Brussels, 10th November 2008 - The EU Council of Ministers refuses to release > secret Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) documents. The Foundation > for a Free Information Infrastructure (FFII) had requested these documents to > make public and parliamentary scrutiny possible. After the Council's refusal, > the FFII sent in a confirmatory application, for the EU Council to review its > position, as allowed by Article 7(2) of the regulation dealing with public > access to such documents. > > ACTA's secrecy fuels concerns that the treaty may give patent trolls > the means to extort companies, undermine access to low-cost generic > medicines, lead to monitoring all citizens' Internet communications > and criminalize peer-to-peer electronic file sharing. > > The EU Council refuses to release the secret documents stating that > disclosure of this information could impede the proper conduct of the > negotiations, would weaken the position of the European Union in these > negotiations and might affect relations with the third parties > concerned. > > The FFII reaffirms its application stating that the legislative > process in the EU has to be open. If the agreement will only be made > public once all parties have already agreed to it, none of the EU's > national parliaments nor the European Parliament will have been able > to scrutinise its contents in any meaningful way. To prevent this from > happening, it may be necessary to renegotiate ACTA's transparency. > > The FFII's confirmatory application letter questions ACTA's secrecy in > no uncertain terms: "The argument that public transparency regarding > 'trade negotiations' can be ignored if it would weaken the EU's > negotiation position is particularly painful. At which point exactly > do negotiations over trade issues become more important than > democratic law making? At 200 million euro? At 500 million euro? At 1 > billion euro? What is the price of our democracy?" > > The Canadian government released documents under the Access to > Information Act that provide additional insights into the secretive > nature of the negotiations. > > If the EU Council again refuses to release the secret documents, the FFII can > take the case to the European Court of Justice. An earlier case on > transparency of EU legislation took 6 years. By that time ACTA may long have > entered into force. > > Ante Wessels, FFII analyst, says: "We do not have so much time. The > only solution we see is that the parliaments of Europe force the > Council to publish the texts by making Parliamentary scrutiny > reservations." > > ======================================================================= > Links > ======================================================================= > > Note FFII's confirmatory application letter is attached below. > > * FFII opposes stealth legislation, demands ACTA documents: > http://press.ffii.org/Press_releases/FFII_opposes_stealth_legislation%2C_demands_ACTA_documents > > * Council letter refusing to release ACTA documents: > http://action.ffii.org/acta/Analysis?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=08-1835en.wes.ws-jj.doc > http://action.ffii.org/acta/Analysis?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=08-1835en.wes.ws-jj.pdf > > * FFII ACTA analysis: > http://action.ffii.org/acta/Analysis > > * Documents released by Canadian government: > http://www.michaelgeist.ca/component/option,com_docman/task,doc_download/gid,21/ > > * Open letter by more than 100 public interest organizations: > http://www.essentialaction.org/access/index.php?/archives/173-Secret-Counterfeiting-Treaty-Public-Must-be-Made-Public,-Global-Organizations-Say.html > (You will find more information here on concerns that ACTA may undermine > access to low-cost generic medicines.) > > * ACTA documents on the Council website: > http://register.consilium.europa.eu/servlet/driver?page=Result&lang=EN&typ=Advanced&cmsid=639&ff_COTE_DOCUMENT=&ff_COTE_DOSSIER_INST=&ff_TITRE=anti-counterfeiting+trade+agreement&ff_FT_TEXT=&ff_SOUS_COTE_MATIERE=&dd_DATE_DOCUMENT=&d > * Electronic form on the Council website to request documents: > http://register.consilium.europa.eu/servlet/jsp/MailAccessPrivacy.jsp?&lang=EN&cmsid=928 > > * Permanent link to this press release: > http://press.ffii.org/Press_releases/EU_Council_refuses_to_release_secret_ACTA_documents > > ======================================================================= > Contact > ======================================================================= > > Benjamin Henrion > FFII Brussels > +32-2-414 84 03 > +32-484-566109 > bhenrion at ffii.org > (French/English) > > Ante Wessels > + 31 6 100 99 063 > ante at ffii.org > (Dutch/English) > > ======================================================================= > FFII confirmatory application letter > ======================================================================= > > Thank you for your reply informing us of the inability of the General > Secretariat to grant access to the following documents: > > * Documents 12875/08, 13448/08 and 13750/08: working documents from > the Commission Services concerning the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade > Agreement. > * Documents 13382/08 and 13949/08: notes from the Presidency to > Delegations concerning the Plurilateral Anti-Counterfeiting Trade > Agreement. > * Document 13637/08 (RESTREINT UE): an outcome of the consultation of > the Justice and Home Affairs Counsellors on 26 September 2008 > concerning the Plurilateral Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement - 3rd > negotiating session 8-10 October 2008, Tokyo, Japan. > > The given reason is that "Release of these documents would weaken the > position of the European Union in these negotiations and might affect > relations with the third parties concerned." > > Please find our confirmatory application herewith. We would appreciate > if it could be made fully public in the Council's Register of documents. > > The European Union and its member states are built on the concept of a > representative democracy. As the European Court of Justice ruled in > the recent Turco case (joined cases C-39/05 P and C-52/05 P) on public > access to legislative proposals and preparatory texts: > > "Openness in that respect contributes to strengthening democracy by > allowing citizens to scrutinise all the information which has formed > the basis of a legislative act. The possibility for citizens to find > out the considerations underpinning legislative action is a > precondition for the effective exercise of their democratic rights." > > The ACTA is a so-called "trade agreement". While technically it is > therefore not a legislative proposal, its acceptance will nonetheless > lead to legislative and executive obligations for the undersigning > parties. Hence, indirectly it will have the same effect as a > legislative proposal. Simply calling it differently and using > different negotiation procedures cannot be used as an excuse in a > democratic society to get around all transparency principles and > requirements of said society. > > If, as currently planned, the agreement will only be made public once > all parties have already agreed to it, none of the EU's national > parliaments nor the European Parliament will have been able to > scrutinise its contents in any meaningful way. We believe this to be a > gross violation of the basic democratic principles the EU is supposed > to stand for. The argument that public transparency regarding "trade > negotiations" can be ignored if it would weaken the EU's negotiation > position is particularly painful. At which point exactly do > negotiations over trade issues become more important than democratic > law making? At 200 million euro? At 500 million euro? At 1 billion > euro? What is the price of our democracy? > > And when exactly do relations with third parties become more important > than the relations with the EU's own citizens? Only when there is no > upcoming referendum on a Constitutional Treaty? Are we only useful as > a large consumer base that can be used as trading goods during trade > negotiations in other times? > > Heaven forbid that these consumers turn out to be also citizens that > want to have a say in what their buying power is being exchanged for. > After all, they might think that criminalising themselves in case they > put a home movie of their children dancing to Britney Spears' latest > song on Youtube might not be such a good idea. Paying higher > subscription fees for Internet access so that Internet Service > Providers can install filtering devices resulting in lower speeds and > censored web access may not sound very attractive either. And neither > does giving patent trolls free reign, with compliments of the various > governments. > > In short: which overriding trade interests justify the complete and > utter disdain for direct public and parliamentary scrutiny over the > negotiations at hand? And at which point exactly do trade interests > start taking precedence over democratic and transparent law making? > > There is no such point. The Institutions know that the legislative > process in the EU has to be open. Our negotiation partners know this > too, or should have been informed. If our negotiation partners are > uninformed about it, if openness could impede the proper conduct of > the negotiations, the negotiation mandate is fundamentally wrong. > However painful, the secrecy has to be renegotiated first. It has to > go out. > > That should not be a problem. The Commission asserted that it would > not go beyond the status quo, the content should be uncontroversial. > And international intellectual property agreements have traditionally > been conducted in a more open and transparent manner. A rollback of > democracy is not needed nor acceptable. > > Sincerely yours, > Ante Wessels > FFII IPRED2 / ACTA workgroup > > ======================================================================= > About the FFII > ======================================================================= > > The FFII is a not-for-profit association active in over fifty > countries, dedicated to the development of information goods for the > public benefit, based on copyright, free competition, and open > standards. More than 850 members, 3,500 companies and 100,000 > supporters have entrusted the FFII to act as their voice in public > policy questions concerning exclusion rights (intellectual property) > in data processing. > > _______________________________________________ > A2k mailing list > A2k at lists.essential.org > http://lists.essential.org/mailman/listinfo/a2k Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 11 02:47:34 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 23:47:34 -0800 Subject: [governance] More on EU Council Refuses To Release ACTA Documents Message-ID: <49193896.3AD60957@ix.netcom.com> All, More on this very questionable position by the EU EC. Seems that the EU's brand of democracy is perhaps an "odd duck". See: "The EU Council http://press.ffii.org/Press_releases/EU_Council_refuses_to_release_secret_ACTA_documents refuses to release secret Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement documents, stating that disclosure of this information could impede the proper conduct of the negotiations, would weaken the position of the EU in these negotiations, and might affect relations with the third parties concerned. The Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure http://press.ffii.org/Press_releases/FFII_opposes_stealth_legislation,_demands_ACTA_documents requested these documents last week. FFII's response questions ACTA's secrecy saying: 'The argument that public transparency regarding 'trade negotiations' can be ignored if it would weaken the EU's negotiation position is particularly painful. At which point exactly do negotiations over trade issues become more important than democratic law making? At 200 million euro? At 500 million euro? At 1 billion euro? What is the price of our democracy?'" Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From b.schombe at gmail.com Wed Nov 12 12:43:07 2008 From: b.schombe at gmail.com (BAUDOUIN SCHOMBE) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 19:43:07 +0200 Subject: [governance] Reminder - GigaNet Symposium Registration In-Reply-To: <5F7EA81A-DE8A-4543-81CE-EE340C4B269A@ras.eu.org> References: <5F7EA81A-DE8A-4543-81CE-EE340C4B269A@ras.eu.org> Message-ID: Hi Meryem, here sis my registration form filled Baudouin 2008/11/10 Meryem Marzouki > Dear all, > > To those of us who plan to attend the 3rd GigaNet Academic Symposium on > Internet Governance : please don't forget to register ASAP (registration > form attached, attendance is free and open to all interested parties). > A participant list will be printed with name, institution, country (subject > to agreement provided in registration form). This is also needed for > logistics issues. The Symposium will be held on Tuesday 2 December, > 08:30-18:30. > The Symposium agenda is available at: http://tinyurl.com/ynsuuf > > Best regards, > Meryem Marzouki, Chair of program committee > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > -- > Meryem Marzouki > LIP6/PolyTIC - CNRS > 104 avenue du Président Kennedy - 75016 Paris > http://www-polytic.lip6.fr > Tel. +33(0)144278881 - Fax. +33(0)144277495 > > > > > -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN COORDONNATEUR NATIONAL REPRONTIC COORDONNATEUR SOUS REGIONAL ACSIS/AFRIQUE CENTRALE MEMBRE FACILITATEUR GAID AFRIQUE téléphone fixe: +243 1510 34 91 Téléphone mobile:+243998983491 email:b.schombe at gmail.com http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3rdGigaNetRegistrationForm Baudouin.rtf Type: application/rtf Size: 42992 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Thu Nov 13 03:14:52 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 08:14:52 +0000 Subject: [governance] visas for india? In-Reply-To: References: <4905D8AE.40007@gmail.com> Message-ID: In message , at 20:27:04 on Mon, 27 Oct 2008, Konstantinos Komaitis writes >I am also located in the UK and they do not accept the email confirming >registration at the IGF. They say that they want a letter of >invitation, my passport has been held by the Indian authorities for the >past 2 weeks. They say that we need a letter of invitation even if we >are to apply for business visa. I went to the outsourced visa agency in Birmingham, UK, yesterday. They knew nothing about the scheme, even though I showed them the fax, but suggested I went direct to the Consulate (which is just a couple of blocks away). At the consulate they still deal with a number of passport/visa issues, mainly for Indian citizens and those travelling at short notice because of a family emergency. After looking at the webpage mentioned on the FAX http://info.intgovforum.org/PLP_3IGF.php ... they were kind enough to issue me with a gratis visa while I waited. At both places they were patiently dealing with large numbers of people travelling not as an emergency, but who had left it "too late" (3 working days, and today the 13th is a public holiday in India) to apply for a tourist visa. I think it would be polite to apply as soon as possible (with a copy of the fax and your email confirming registration, I also had a printout of the generic 'Invitation' from the UN-IGF website), and not leave it to the last minute. http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/index.php/invite08 -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Thu Nov 13 04:18:47 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:18:47 +0100 Subject: [governance] 1.5 Billion References: <188A1944-9FC1-4560-BF75-0473A8A3C1CB@datos-personales.org> <646E3816B98F1144812F31E1BDA0229739E7D6AC47@DC-V115.consumerfocus.local> <7C36FCE3-CC3D-4E08-96CC-F2FC19FD1E92@eff.org> <1226063972.25368.26.camel@anriette-laptop> <006601c940e4$8ee7b200$ce777a89@crllt.ad.uottawa.ca> <491453EC.5040604@wzb.eu> <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9F4F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842647F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426489@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A84264CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Dear friends last week the cyberworld crossed another historical line: Since November 5, 2008 we have now more than 1.5 billilon Internet users in the world (http://www.50x15.com/en%2Dus/) . When WSIS ended in December 2005 we had just crossed the one billion line. With other words: half a billion new users in the last three years. Probably we will reach to two billion line in 2010 which makes it rather realistic to reach the WSIS goal of "half of mankind until 2015". BTW, we have nearly 4 billion mobile phones in the world. If all these phone will be connected to the Internet the digital opportunities will look rather different. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 12 06:25:10 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 03:25:10 -0800 Subject: [governance] 1.5 Billion References: <188A1944-9FC1-4560-BF75-0473A8A3C1CB@datos-personales.org> <646E3816B98F1144812F31E1BDA0229739E7D6AC47@DC-V115.consumerfocus.local> <7C36FCE3-CC3D-4E08-96CC-F2FC19FD1E92@eff.org> <1226063972.25368.26.camel@anriette-laptop> <006601c940e4$8ee7b200$ce777a89@crllt.ad.uottawa.ca> <491453EC.5040604@wzb.eu> <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9F4F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842647F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426489@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A84264CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <491ABD16.A8767135@ix.netcom.com> Wolfgang and all, Your a bit behind the curve. Currently there are about 2000 ISP's in the US alone that are wireless ISP's exclusively, and more on the way. Ergo, as the US leads in this segment of Internet growth we hope that the EU and Asia, which is also growing rapidly in wireless exclusive Internet connectivity, will reduce the broadband especially restrictions in the EU so that a more global realization in this segment can be more homogeneous. But alas the EC council just this week has taken a much more restrictive approach instead. How sad, and uncooperative... Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > Dear friends > > last week the cyberworld crossed another historical line: Since November 5, 2008 we have now more than 1.5 billilon Internet users in the world (http://www.50x15.com/en%2Dus/) . > > When WSIS ended in December 2005 we had just crossed the one billion line. With other words: half a billion new users in the last three years. Probably we will reach to two billion line in 2010 which makes it rather realistic to reach the WSIS goal of "half of mankind until 2015". > > BTW, we have nearly 4 billion mobile phones in the world. If all these phone will be connected to the Internet the digital opportunities will look rather different. > > Wolfgang > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From roland at internetpolicyagency.com Thu Nov 13 04:46:27 2008 From: roland at internetpolicyagency.com (Roland Perry) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:46:27 +0000 Subject: [governance] 1.5 Billion In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A84264CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <188A1944-9FC1-4560-BF75-0473A8A3C1CB@datos-personales.org> <646E3816B98F1144812F31E1BDA0229739E7D6AC47@DC-V115.consumerfocus.local> <7C36FCE3-CC3D-4E08-96CC-F2FC19FD1E92@eff.org> <1226063972.25368.26.camel@anriette-laptop> <006601c940e4$8ee7b200$ce777a89@crllt.ad.uottawa.ca> <491453EC.5040604@wzb.eu> <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023C9F4F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842647F@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426489@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A84264CE@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: In message <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A84264CE at server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de>, at 10:18:47 on Thu, 13 Nov 2008, "Kleinwächter, Wolfgang" writes >BTW, we have nearly 4 billion mobile phones in the world. A serious question: is that counting all phones, just the active phones, or all phone users? At my desk I can see four mobile phones (just for me) plus a 3G "dongle" (does that count as a phone as well?) -- Roland Perry ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at acm.org Thu Nov 13 13:42:39 2008 From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:42:39 -0500 Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator In-Reply-To: <8CF427AC339E491F8A3A2527A13C8AE3@IAN> References: <8CF427AC339E491F8A3A2527A13C8AE3@IAN> Message-ID: On 10 Nov 2008, at 19:16, Ian Peter wrote: > This is a call for nominations for a Co-coordinator of the Internet > Governance Caucus to replace Parminder, whose term expires at the > end of the Hyderabadmeeting. An election will be held as soon as is > practical after the end of this years IGF meeting. hi, while finding myself reading every single word sent out on this list as a part of what i considered to be my job as a member of the appeals team, i was wondering, how are we doing at finding the next appeals team? seems we should finish that before starting the next coordinator election process. who knows someone on the current/ very-old appeals team may want to run for the coordinator gig, and at the moment, they can't. not me, been there - done that, but there are a few good people on that team you all might want to consider. cheers, a. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Fri Nov 14 01:42:50 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:42:50 +1100 Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <488FF7A32ECF44718E8196CBCF303713@IAN> Avri, the Appeals Team replacement process is currently ruinning well behind schedule, but I'll ask David Goldstein (the independent Chair) if he could give some sort of update to the list on how this is progressing. David?? I've got a couple of thoughts on how we might proceed, but I'll await David's update before responding. Ian Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at acm.org] > Sent: 14 November 2008 05:43 > To: Ian Peter > Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator > > > On 10 Nov 2008, at 19:16, Ian Peter wrote: > > > This is a call for nominations for a Co-coordinator of the Internet > > Governance Caucus to replace Parminder, whose term expires at the > > end of the Hyderabadmeeting. An election will be held as soon as is > > practical after the end of this years IGF meeting. > > > hi, > > while finding myself reading every single word sent out on this list > as a part of what i considered to be my job as a member of the appeals > team, i was wondering, how are we doing at finding the next appeals > team? > > seems we should finish that before starting the next coordinator > election process. who knows someone on the current/ very-old appeals > team may want to run for the coordinator gig, and at the moment, they > can't. not me, been there - done that, but there are a few good > people on that team you all might want to consider. > > cheers, > > a. > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 > 2:18 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Fri Nov 14 02:01:17 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 12:31:17 +0530 Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator In-Reply-To: <8CF427AC339E491F8A3A2527A13C8AE3@IAN> Message-ID: <20081114070130.47E6EA6C58@smtp2.electricembers.net> >This is an election, therefore anyone IGC member who feels able to do this should feel free to nominate, and each of us will have our own criteria for the ideal >candidate. I should say that in my mind an ideal candidate will be someone who is already involved with IGC, IGF and its processes, is able to fund their >participation in IGF meetings, has good people skills and consensus seeking skills, lots of energy, and a small amount of time to devote to this each week. My personal thoughts on the criterion of "> is able to fund their >participation in IGF meetings" are as follows. I think we should try to find a way around this, because such a consideration especially dissuades possible candidates from developing countries, while having an impact on effective functioning of a co-coordinator from any part of the world. We know that even some MAG members from developing countries have not been able to participate in MAG meetings in the past (which is such a mockery of a public institution) though the situation seems to be improving now. First of all, I think there seem to be some funds for facilitating participants from developing countries in MAG meetings and the IGF, and especially if we make an appeal form the IGC it should be possible that the IGF co-coordinator's participation can be funded. I also mooted a funding proposal for the IGC a few times earlier here, and will want to bring the issue up again. If it is fine with the group I will like to put together a quick two pager of a proposal that highlights the very significant role played by the IGC in global public interest advocacy in the IG arena and seeks a basic funding for a part time intern, and about 4 international trips for its co-coordinators. Shouldn't be more that 25 - 30,000 USD. And prima facie to me at least it looks like a good case for any progressive funder to support. Comments, suggestions and further ideas are welcome. If we agree on something before the IGF, the proposal can be discussed at the IGC meeting at the IGF and taken up post IGF. We may though make exploratory efforts with some funders even before that. Parminder _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:46 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator This is a call for nominations for a Co-coordinator of the Internet Governance Caucus to replace Parminder, whose term expires at the end of the Hyderabad meeting. An election will be held as soon as is practical after the end of this years IGF meeting. Either self nominations or third party nominations are perfectly acceptable and should be sent to me by private email (ian.peter at ianpeter.com). If nominating another person, however, I would ask that you check with them as to their willingness to take this on. I will acknowledge nominations received by return email. I will periodically announce nominations that have been received. Nominations will close December 7 when I will release a final list of nominations with short biographical details. An election will then be held. Please give serious thought to this. The Co-cordinator position is for a two year term. This will be an important period for us as it will lead us to the end of the fifth (and perhaps final) IGF meeting. The first and most important duty of the coordinator(s) is to facilitate the discussions and enable the members of the caucus to reach consensus whenever possible. This is an election, therefore anyone IGC member who feels able to do this should feel free to nominate, and each of us will have our own criteria for the ideal candidate. I should say that in my mind an ideal candidate will be someone who is already involved with IGC, IGF and its processes, is able to fund their participation in IGF meetings, has good people skills and consensus seeking skills, lots of energy, and a small amount of time to devote to this each week. Please feel free to contact me if you need further information. I welcome all nominations and look forward to receiving them. Ian Peter ( ongoing Co-coordinator) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Fri Nov 14 02:12:41 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:12:41 +1100 Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator In-Reply-To: <20081114070130.47E6EA6C58@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <078C9655E64E423584C5160BE4525BF7@IAN> Parminder, I fully support what you propose and would be keen to help. I had intended to take up the funding issue post Hyderabad, but if we can do so beforehand all the better. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > Sent: 14 November 2008 18:01 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Ian Peter' > Subject: RE: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator > > >This is an election, therefore anyone IGC member who feels able to do > this should feel free to nominate, and each of us will have our own > criteria for the ideal >candidate. I should say that in my mind an ideal > candidate will be someone who is already involved with IGC, IGF and its > processes, is able to fund their >participation in IGF meetings, has > good people skills and consensus seeking skills, lots of energy, and a > small amount of time to devote to this each week. > > > > My personal thoughts on the criterion of "> is able to fund their > >participation in IGF meetings" are as follows. > > > > I think we should try to find a way around this, because such a > consideration especially dissuades possible candidates from developing > countries, while having an impact on effective functioning of a > co-coordinator from any part of the world. We know that even some MAG > members from developing countries have not been able to participate in > MAG meetings in the past (which is such a mockery of a public > institution) though the situation seems to be improving now. > > > > First of all, I think there seem to be some funds for facilitating > participants from developing countries in MAG meetings and the IGF, and > especially if we make an appeal form the IGC it should be possible that > the IGF co-coordinator's participation can be funded. > > > > I also mooted a funding proposal for the IGC a few times earlier here, > and will want to bring the issue up again. If it is fine with the group > I will like to put together a quick two pager of a proposal that > highlights the very significant role played by the IGC in global public > interest advocacy in the IG arena and seeks a basic funding for a part > time intern, and about 4 international trips for its co-coordinators. > Shouldn't be more that 25 - 30,000 USD. And prima facie to me at least > it looks like a good case for any progressive funder to support. > Comments, suggestions and further ideas are welcome. > > > > If we agree on something before the IGF, the proposal can be discussed > at the IGC meeting at the IGF and taken up post IGF. We may though make > exploratory efforts with some funders even before that. > > > > Parminder > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 5:46 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator > > > > This is a call for nominations for a Co-coordinator of the Internet > Governance Caucus to replace Parminder, whose term expires at the end of > the Hyderabad meeting. An election will be held as soon as is practical > after the end of this years IGF meeting. > > > > Either self nominations or third party nominations are perfectly > acceptable and should be sent to me by private email > (ian.peter at ianpeter.com). If nominating another person, however, I would > ask that you check with them as to their willingness to take this on. I > will acknowledge nominations received by return email. > > > > I will periodically announce nominations that have been received. > Nominations will close December 7 when I will release a final list of > nominations with short biographical details. An election will then be > held. > > > > Please give serious thought to this. The Co-cordinator position is for a > two year term. This will be an important period for us as it will lead > us to the end of the fifth (and perhaps final) IGF meeting. The first > and most important duty of the coordinator(s) is to facilitate the > discussions and enable the members of the caucus to reach consensus > whenever possible. > > > > This is an election, therefore anyone IGC member who feels able to do > this should feel free to nominate, and each of us will have our own > criteria for the ideal candidate. I should say that in my mind an ideal > candidate will be someone who is already involved with IGC, IGF and its > processes, is able to fund their participation in IGF meetings, has good > people skills and consensus seeking skills, lots of energy, and a small > amount of time to devote to this each week. > > > > Please feel free to contact me if you need further information. I > welcome all nominations and look forward to receiving them. > > > > > > Ian Peter ( ongoing Co-coordinator) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 > 2:18 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 13 05:57:39 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 02:57:39 -0800 Subject: [governance] Good news, but why did it take so long: ITU launches Child Online Protection initiative Message-ID: <491C0823.65CA5F5D@ix.netcom.com> All, See: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/111308-itu-launches-child-online-protection.html?hpg1=bn This is for me and our members some of the best and only good news regarding the ITU's activities we have seen in years if ever. Why did it take so long for the ITU to act, and why hasn't ICANN followed up? Perhaps in ICANN's case it was the potential loss in DN registration fees had they done so when many of us than 5 years ago that were enguaged and calling for such. Seems to me that ICANN should have been out front on this instead of recomending .XXX, which rightly so, DOC/NTIA resoundly rejected and stepped in and stopped. Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 14:14:17 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2008 11:14:17 -0800 Subject: [Gov 589] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: <20081110014428.0386FB00B5@smtp7-g19.free.fr> Message-ID: <60FB4FC98848478AAAFFF55EF7C53D61@userPC> I think the real reason that the IGF is still vulnerable to attacks such as those from the ITU rests with civil society and the overall way in which civil society has consented and collaborated wiith the IGF in the current framing and presenting of the issues. Rather than attempt to engage the larger universe of the grassroots with a stake in the opportunities that ICTs present (as well as the risks), the IGF following WSIS has overall failed to either define the issues with which it is concerned in terms amenable to grassroots involvement or otherwise has effectively ignored the issues which would engage grassroots users and particularly organizations working with and for the grassroot ICTs. The absence of a linkage between WSIS and now the IGF and a grassroots "movement" for effective ICT use and self-empowerment is the direct cause of the absence of dynamism which we now observe in the post-WSIS initiatives and which many are seeing as now befalling the IGF. MG -----Original Message----- From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of JFC Morfin Sent: November-09-08 5:36 PM To: 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' Subject: [Gov 589] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo At 19:01 09/11/2008, JFC Morfin wrote: It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. I agree with this. The reason why is that the secretariat did not understand the role of the IGF in two key areas : 1. IGF _is_ a decision making meeting. But in the new fashion. Not for a single document to be voted by Govs. But for attendees to concert and make their own minds, as the owners of their own part of the Internet and of their own global connections and usage. 2. Secretariat has not attempted to catalyse the necessary work concerning enhanced cooperations. I do not know if we still have some hope for Hyderabad, but we can start working for Cairo and establish our own enhanced cooperations, and make them effective. One framework for such an effort is simple enough to start with: to practically concert about actions for a People Internet by the people for the people, in order to support a people centered information society. The basic idea is that dynamic coalitions are to influence the Internet governance and enhanced cooperations are to enact it through cooperations among interested parties. A typical enhanced cooperation could be geo-cultural TLDs, to help protect and revive languages in the Internet age. Open cooperations at the CS initiative could include concerned political authorities, cultural entiies, businesses, and registrants. An "enhanced cooperation" of such "enhanced cooperations" could play an equivalent role to ICANN, GSMA, China, TLDA, etc. in running a part of the Internet virtual root and keep such TLD out of the ICANN greed. jfc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 14:44:23 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 01:14:23 +0530 Subject: [Gov 589] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo In-Reply-To: <60FB4FC98848478AAAFFF55EF7C53D61@userPC> References: <20081110014428.0386FB00B5@smtp7-g19.free.fr> <60FB4FC98848478AAAFFF55EF7C53D61@userPC> Message-ID: Hello Michael Gurstein, On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Michael Gurstein wrote: > I think the real reason that the IGF is still vulnerable to attacks such > as those from the ITU rests with civil society and the overall way in which > civil society has consented and collaborated wiith the IGF in the current > framing and presenting of the issues. > >From my observation of the process of preparing workshop proposals and the process of arriving at a final version of the proposal, I notice that the Civil Society at the IGF follows a sort of quasi-diplomatic style. Diplomatic process on a global level in the modern context is an art of compromise. The IGF process has so far followed this style of conducting its business and frankly, we as participants haven't been as good as the traditional players of this game. > > Rather than attempt to engage the larger universe of the grassroots with a > stake in the opportunities that ICTs present (as well as the risks), the IGF > following WSIS has overall failed to either define the issues with which it > is concerned in terms amenable to grassroots involvement or otherwise has > effectively ignored the issues which would engage grassroots users and > particularly organizations working with and for the grassroot ICTs. > Rather than feel hurt, I would rather look at this as "self-criticism" from within. We need to take a serious look at how the users are to be involved. Even on the business quadrant, business seems to be more represented by the Service Providers rather than the "business-user" groups - for example we don't see large BPOs or Airlines who are Business Corporations as consumers of bandwidth. They ought to be part of the business stakeholder groups ? Sivasubramanian Muthusamy The absence of a linkage between WSIS and now the IGF and a > grassroots "movement" for effective ICT use and self-empowerment is the > direct cause of the absence of dynamism which we now observe in the > post-WSIS initiatives and which many are seeing as now befalling the IGF. > > MG > -----Original Message----- > *From:* gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] *On > Behalf Of *JFC Morfin > *Sent:* November-09-08 5:36 PM > *To:* 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; > governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > *Subject:* [Gov 589] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage Re: > [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > At 19:01 09/11/2008, JFC Morfin wrote: > > It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the danger of > being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of any real importance > takes any note of. We must review what would it mean in terms of civil > society and progressive interests. In light of such a review we may need to > have clearer common positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how > we want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative in > view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start in earnest > immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at > Hyderabad may have some important implications for this review. > > > I agree with this. The reason why is that the secretariat did not > understand the role of the IGF in two key areas : > > 1. IGF _is_ a decision making meeting. But in the new fashion. Not for a > single document to be voted by Govs. But for attendees to concert and make > their own minds, as the owners of their own part of the Internet and of > their own global connections and usage. > > 2. Secretariat has not attempted to catalyse the necessary work concerning > enhanced cooperations. I do not know if we still have some hope for > Hyderabad, but we can start working for Cairo and establish our own enhanced > cooperations, and make them effective. One framework for such an effort is > simple enough to start with: to practically concert about actions for a > People Internet by the people for the people, in order to support a people > centered information society. > > The basic idea is that dynamic coalitions are to influence the Internet > governance and enhanced cooperations are to enact it through cooperations > among interested parties. A typical enhanced cooperation could be > geo-cultural TLDs, to help protect and revive languages in the Internet age. > Open cooperations at the CS initiative could include concerned political > authorities, cultural entiies, businesses, and registrants. An "enhanced > cooperation" of such "enhanced cooperations" could play an equivalent role > to ICANN, GSMA, China, TLDA, etc. in running a part of the Internet virtual > root and keep such TLD out of the ICANN greed. > > jfc > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Sat Nov 15 14:53:03 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 01:23:03 +0530 Subject: [governance] Overture to take over Internet Governance: ITU at the ICANN Cairo Message-ID: Hello All, I earlier posted my comments on ITU Secretary General Hammadoun Toure's Cairo speech, but later wrote some more and posted it at Circle ID. With a bit of a narrative write up and some additions, it looks like an article and I have titled it "Overture to take over Internet Governance: ITU at the ICANN Cairo" and is on the front page along with more deserving articles posted by more qualified writers ! http://www.circleid.com May I request your comments, please? -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy. http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 14 19:39:23 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 16:39:23 -0800 Subject: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo References: <20081110014428.0386FB00B5@smtp7-g19.free.fr> <60FB4FC98848478AAAFFF55EF7C53D61@userPC> Message-ID: <491E1A3A.3641115E@ix.netcom.com> Siva and all, Users, which we all are BTW, shall involve themselves in an open and transparent manner or not be associated with an effort that is not such, and rightly so. I don't believe that Users need to be directed as to how or where, or even what to get involved with or in. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello Michael Gurstein, > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Michael > Gurstein wrote: > > I think the real reason that the IGF is still vulnerable to > attacks such as those from the ITU rests with civil society > and the overall way in which civil society has consented and > collaborated wiith the IGF in the current framing and > presenting of the issues. > > > From my observation of the process of preparing workshop proposals and > the process of arriving at a final version of the proposal, I notice > that the Civil Society at the IGF follows a sort of quasi-diplomatic > style. Diplomatic process on a global level in the modern context is > an art of compromise. The IGF process has so far followed this style > of conducting its business and frankly, we as participants haven't > been as good as the traditional players of this game. > > Rather than attempt to engage the larger universe of the > grassroots with a stake in the opportunities that ICTs > present (as well as the risks), the IGF following WSIS has > overall failed to either define the issues with which it is > concerned in terms amenable to grassroots involvement or > otherwise has effectively ignored the issues which would > engage grassroots users and particularly organizations > working with and for the grassroot ICTs. > > > Rather than feel hurt, I would rather look at this as "self-criticism" > from within. We need to take a serious look at how the users are to be > involved. Even on the business quadrant, business seems to be more > represented by the Service Providers rather than the "business-user" > groups - for example we don't see large BPOs or Airlines who are > Business Corporations as consumers of bandwidth. They ought to be part > of the business stakeholder groups ? > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > The absence of a linkage between WSIS and now the > IGF and a grassroots "movement" for effective ICT > use and self-empowerment is the direct cause of > the absence of dynamism which we now observe > in the post-WSIS initiatives and which many are > seeing as now befalling the IGF. > > MG-----Original Message----- > From: gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org > [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] On Behalf Of JFC > Morfin > Sent: November-09-08 5:36 PM > To: 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks > Governance'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. > Francis MUGUET' > Subject: [Gov 589] Re: ITU and ICANN - a loveless > forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in > Cairo > > At 19:01 09/11/2008, JFC Morfin wrote: > > > It is a fact that the IGF may be in real > > trouble, and in the danger of being sidelined as > > an annual conference that no one of any real > > importance takes any note of. We must review > > what would it mean in terms of civil society and > > progressive interests. In light of such a review > > we may need to have clearer common positions of > > how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we > > want to see it evolve. Such a review is an even > > more urgent imperative in view of the > > forthcoming process of IGF review which will > > start in earnest immediately after the IGF, > > Hyderabad. What gets said and discussed at > > Hyderabad may have some important implications > > for this review. > > I agree with this. The reason why is that the > secretariat did not understand the role of the IGF > in two key areas : > > 1. IGF _is_ a decision making meeting. But in the > new fashion. Not for a single document to be voted > by Govs. But for attendees to concert and make > their own minds, as the owners of their own part > of the Internet and of their own global > connections and usage. > > 2. Secretariat has not attempted to catalyse the > necessary work concerning enhanced cooperations. I > do not know if we still have some hope for > Hyderabad, but we can start working for Cairo and > establish our own enhanced cooperations, and make > them effective. One framework for such an effort > is simple enough to start with: to practically > concert about actions for a People Internet by the > people for the people, in order to support a > people centered information society. > > The basic idea is that dynamic coalitions are to > influence the Internet governance and enhanced > cooperations are to enact it through cooperations > among interested parties. A typical enhanced > cooperation could be geo-cultural TLDs, to help > protect and revive languages in the Internet age. > Open cooperations at the CS initiative could > include concerned political authorities, cultural > entiies, businesses, and registrants. An "enhanced > cooperation" of such "enhanced cooperations" could > play an equivalent role to ICANN, GSMA, China, > TLDA, etc. in running a part of the Internet > virtual root and keep such TLD out of the ICANN > greed. > > jfc > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sun Nov 16 02:35:08 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 13:05:08 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGC workshops at the IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <20081108152905.6A984A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <20081116073518.12BEFE0FFB@smtp3.electricembers.net> There are some some additional speakers now for our workshops listed in the email below. For the workshop "Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach" There is an additional speaker now - Ms Katerina BATZELI, Member of European Parliament, bio at http://www.europarl.europa.eu/members/expert/groupAndCountry/view.do?partNum ber=1 &group=1534&country=GR&language=EN&id=28579 And for the workshop on ""The Transboundary Internet: Jurisdiction, Control and Sovereignty" Rishi Jaitly, Google's 'South Asia Government Affairs Manager' will be an additional speaker. Thanks. Parminder _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:59 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] IGC workshops at the IGF, Hyderabad Hi All The final program of the three workshops sponsored by the IGC for IGF, Hyderabad, is now ready. The three workshops are 1) The role and mandate of the IGF, December 6th 9 to 1030, ( http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=71 ) 2) The Transboundary Internet: Jurisdiction, Control and Sovereignty, December 4th, 16 to 1730 (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=63 ) 3) Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach, on December 6th, 11:30 - 13:00, See details of the workshop at (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=66 ) Apart for these, IGC is also co-sponsoring the workshop on The Future of ICANN: After the JPA, What? December 4th, 11- 1230 (http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=9 ) Thanks to the IGC working groups who worked hard to organize these workshops. IGC members who wish to give comments on the subjects of the above workshops may do so, and it is expected that the IGC participants in these workshops will take note of them. Parminder PS : The full IGF program can be seen at http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/hyderabad_prog/Workshop_Schedule.htm . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From anriette at apc.org Fri Nov 14 08:00:42 2008 From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 15:00:42 +0200 Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator In-Reply-To: <20081114070130.47E6EA6C58@smtp2.electricembers.net> References: <20081114070130.47E6EA6C58@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <1226667642.6134.4.camel@anriette-laptop> I would like to respond to Parminder's point that we should reconsider the criterion on coordinators being to facilitate their own funding in IGF meetings. While it is important for coordinators, or at least one of them, to be at the meetings, I agree strongly with Parminder that we should not include ability to fund one's participation in the criteria. It is bound to limit the pool of people we can draw on and would therefore limit diversity. And, we can find ways around it as Parminder points out. Anriette > > My personal thoughts on the criterion of “> is able to fund their > >participation in IGF meetings” are as follows. > > > > I think we should try to find a way around this, because such a > consideration especially dissuades possible candidates from developing > countries, while having an impact on effective functioning of a > co-coordinator from any part of the world. We know that even some MAG > members from developing countries have not been able to participate in > MAG meetings in the past (which is such a mockery of a public > institution) though the situation seems to be improving now. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From avri at acm.org Sun Nov 16 09:41:51 2008 From: avri at acm.org (Avri Doria) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:41:51 -0600 Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator In-Reply-To: <1226667642.6134.4.camel@anriette-laptop> References: <20081114070130.47E6EA6C58@smtp2.electricembers.net> <1226667642.6134.4.camel@anriette-laptop> Message-ID: <3510F591-8BA8-43F0-A0E6-DA5DA5AE9B6C@acm.org> Hi, I agree with Parminder's point as well. I would add that in this age when we are trying to find ways to enhance remote participation it seems iike physical presence at all meetings should be less of a requirement. Not that I am suggesting that a coordinator should participate remotely or that one has to participate remotely to really care about remote participation, but a coordinator who could not travel to each and every meeting might be well placed to help champion the cause of remote participation and really test it by using it. BTW: I also not arguing that we can forgo the attempt to find adequate funding for physical presence at meetings. We all know remote participation isn't there yet. But lots of people keep valiantly trying. a. . On 14 Nov 2008, at 07:00, Anriette Esterhuysen wrote: > I would like to respond to Parminder's point that we should reconsider > the criterion on coordinators being to facilitate their own funding in > IGF meetings. > > While it is important for coordinators, or at least one of them, to be > at the meetings, I agree strongly with Parminder that we should not > include ability to fund one's participation in the criteria. > > It is bound to limit the pool of people we can draw on and would > therefore limit diversity. And, we can find ways around it as > Parminder > points out. > > Anriette > >> >> My personal thoughts on the criterion of “> is able to fund their >>> participation in IGF meetings” are as follows. >> >> >> >> I think we should try to find a way around this, because such a >> consideration especially dissuades possible candidates from >> developing >> countries, while having an impact on effective functioning of a >> co-coordinator from any part of the world. We know that even some MAG >> members from developing countries have not been able to participate >> in >> MAG meetings in the past (which is such a mockery of a public >> institution) though the situation seems to be improving now. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Sun Nov 16 13:18:27 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 05:18:27 +1100 Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator In-Reply-To: <3510F591-8BA8-43F0-A0E6-DA5DA5AE9B6C@acm.org> Message-ID: <320534A555BF4A0D8AACEC6D05F96F5C@IAN> Point taken. In any case I am pleased to announce that we have two candidates to date Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Asif Kabani The call for candidates remains open until the end of the Hyderabad meeting. Self nominations are fine. As regards the point made earlier about Appeals Team - I would suggest that if a current Appeals Team wishes to stand as Co-coordinator they simply resign that position and we leave it vacant until the current process of replacement is complete. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at acm.org] > Sent: 17 November 2008 01:42 > To: Governance List > Subject: Re: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator > > Hi, > > I agree with Parminder's point as well. > > I would add that in this age when we are trying to find ways to > enhance remote participation it seems iike physical presence at all > meetings should be less of a requirement. Not that I am suggesting > that a coordinator should participate remotely or that one has to > participate remotely to really care about remote participation, but a > coordinator who could not travel to each and every meeting might be > well placed to help champion the cause of remote participation and > really test it by using it. > > BTW: I also not arguing that we can forgo the attempt to find adequate > funding for physical presence at meetings. We all know remote > participation isn't there yet. But lots of people keep valiantly > trying. > > a. > . > > > On 14 Nov 2008, at 07:00, Anriette Esterhuysen wrote: > > > I would like to respond to Parminder's point that we should reconsider > > the criterion on coordinators being to facilitate their own funding in > > IGF meetings. > > > > While it is important for coordinators, or at least one of them, to be > > at the meetings, I agree strongly with Parminder that we should not > > include ability to fund one's participation in the criteria. > > > > It is bound to limit the pool of people we can draw on and would > > therefore limit diversity. And, we can find ways around it as > > Parminder > > points out. > > > > Anriette > > > >> > >> My personal thoughts on the criterion of "> is able to fund their > >>> participation in IGF meetings" are as follows. > >> > >> > >> > >> I think we should try to find a way around this, because such a > >> consideration especially dissuades possible candidates from > >> developing > >> countries, while having an impact on effective functioning of a > >> co-coordinator from any part of the world. We know that even some MAG > >> members from developing countries have not been able to participate > >> in > >> MAG meetings in the past (which is such a mockery of a public > >> institution) though the situation seems to be improving now. > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 11/15/2008 9:32 AM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Mon Nov 17 00:21:58 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:21:58 +1100 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad IGC meeeting In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <8ECD4E1646BF49AB93A1A6DCB7E2006E@IAN> Can people give an idea of their preference for a meeting? The choices seem to be 2nd (day before IGF) at 1830 (after Giganet business meeting) 3rd (after 1st day of IGF) probably about 1745 after sessions finish I'm tending towards the 2nd - if so, we should try to keep the meeting to no more than one hour as it will have been a long day for some. But please give an idea of which you prefer. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] > Sent: 11 November 2008 06:04 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Hi Anja and all > > You're right, the IGF starts on the 3rd (Wednesday), and GigaNet > symposium is held on the 2nd, until 18:30. > Having an IGC meeting right after GigaNet business meeting (i.e. > 18:30-20:30) could be an option, especially since, most probably, we > could keep the same room (Parminder, I can ask if you want me to do > so, since I'm anyhow in contact with the IGF secretariat and with > HICC event manager re: logistics issues). > > Best, > Meryem > > -- > Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org > IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire > 40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris > > > Le 10 nov. 08 à 08:32, Anja a écrit : > > > Param, doesn't the IGF start on the 3rd? > > > > Anja > > > > Parminder wrote: > >> > >> Ian > >> > >> After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC > >> meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does > >> the evening of 1^st (eve of IGF) or 2^nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound > >> to all those who will be attending. > >> > >> I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF > >> should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting > >> to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the > >> IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, > >> onwards. > >> > >> I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. > >> > >> Parminder > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM > >> *To:* 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder' > >> *Subject:* RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless > >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before > >> pressing send. That was meant to be offlist . > >> > >> Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to > >> discuss in any case. > >> > >> Ian Peter > >> > >> PO Box 429 > >> > >> Bangalow NSW 2479 > >> > >> Australia > >> > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > >> > >> www.ianpeter.com > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 17:14 > >> *To:* 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder' > >> *Subject:* OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless > >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> Hi Parminder, > >> > >> Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before > >> Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night > >> before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in > >> early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something > >> like that seems important). I’ll respond but will be interested to > >> see what others say first. > >> > >> On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for > >> your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release > >> names periodically as they are received and certainly before > >> Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post > >> Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add > >> names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I > >> think that might be the way to get the best field. > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Ian Peter > >> > >> PO Box 429 > >> > >> Bangalow NSW 2479 > >> > >> Australia > >> > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > >> > >> www.ianpeter.com > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 16:51 > >> *To:* 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > >> *Subject:* RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced > >> marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we > >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues > >> (lest anyone take offence?) > >> > >> Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. > >> > >> Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil > >> society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that > >> is relatively representative of people and groups across the > >> world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from > >> strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on > >> the other. > >> > >> However, many others in the civil society, including within the > >> IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind > >> strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue > >> has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity > >> of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive > >> inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, > >> outputs on key IG issues. > >> > >> I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on > >> this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need > >> to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. > >> > >> It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the > >> danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of > >> any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would > >> it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In > >> light of such a review we may need to have clearer common > >> positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want > >> to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative > >> in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start > >> in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said > >> and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications > >> for this review. > >> > >> Parminder > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] > >> *On Behalf Of *Ian Peter > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM > >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > >> *Cc:* 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' > >> *Subject:* [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage > >> Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the > >> opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and > >> avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > >> > >> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we > >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues > >> (lest anyone take offence?) > >> > >> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in > >> addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does > >> succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . > >> > >> Ian Peter > >> > >> PO Box 429 > >> > >> Bangalow NSW 2479 > >> > >> Australia > >> > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > >> > >> www.ianpeter.com > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 > >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > >> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > >> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: > >> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> Dear Wolfgang > >> > >> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most > >> notably about the IGF. > >> > >> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > >> > >> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate > >> actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was > >> established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at > >> the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around > >> and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of > >> time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And > >> that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that > >> we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize > >> the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet- > >> related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data > >> protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of > >> Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about > >> Internet." It's an issue for everyone./ > >> > >> > >> > >> Best Francis > >> > >> --------------------------------- > >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 > >> > >> 7 November 2008, 12:30 > >> > >> > >> *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* > >> > >> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better > >> collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1] > >> * (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and > >> Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and > >> criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," > >> said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. > >> According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each > >> other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications > >> and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". > >> > >> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not > >> spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. > >> Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his > >> organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage > >> and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively > >> describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely > >> cosmetic. > >> > >> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, > >> which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi- > >> internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further > >> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. > >> Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. > >> According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win > >> a war, is to prevent it." > >> > >> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively > >> to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he > >> noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with > >> which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, > >> standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), > >> cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child > >> protection online. > >> > >> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as > >> global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has > >> clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." > >> However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its > >> *Cybersecurity Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global > >> framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. > >> He also defended the controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard > >> proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's > >> just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. > >> > >> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed > >> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector > >> members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs > >> as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the > >> *World Summit on the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, > >> organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN > >> summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the > >> table, rather than demonstrating outside. > >> > >> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the > >> *Internet Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being > >> by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is > >> continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is > >> becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is > >> planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival > >> event. > >> > >> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work > >> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory > >> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was > >> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory > >> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. > >> "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." > >> The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted > >> Touré forthrightly. > >> > >> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian > >> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his > >> and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". > >> Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by > >> contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very > >> different political models, "From the viewpoint of an > >> international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, > >> because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an > >> international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he > >> opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between > >> interested parties. He noted that both models have their > >> advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn > >> to operate within both models. > >> > >> (//Monika Ermert//) > >> > >> (*lghp[9]*) > >> > >>
> >> > >> **URL of this Article:** > >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > >> > >> **Links in this Article:** > >> [1] http://www.itu.int/ > >> [2] http://www.icann.org > >> [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw- > >> their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > >> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > >> [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > >> [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > >> [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > >> [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > >> [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > >> > >> Dear friends > >> find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent > >> ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very > >> interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the > >> principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very > >> clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion > >> and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual > >> debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of > >> cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of > >> an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a > >> network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and > >> coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org> > >> For all list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > >> > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > >> > > > > -- > > Dr. Anja Kovacs > > Senior Research Associate > > > > IT for Change > > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities > > Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890 > > > > www.ITforChange.net > > www.IS-Watch.net > > http://India.IS-Watch.net > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 > 2:18 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From maxsenges at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 03:01:02 2008 From: maxsenges at gmail.com (Max Senges) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:01:02 -0800 Subject: [governance] IBR workshops at the IGF, Hyderabad Message-ID: <4d976d8e0811170001of2bc531s62527b84d580556@mail.gmail.com> Dear colleagues I would like to take the opportunity to invite you to the two workshops the Internet Bill of Rights Coalition is organizing. Please note that both workshops are planned as interactive discussions rather than panel presentations. 1) Internet Bill of Rights IGF workshop will be held from 14.30 to 16.00 on Day 3 of the IGF (5th December) in room 7. Themes are: - IGF and the IBR as umbrella coalition for the promotion of Rights in policy and practice - What is the best way to form a wider coalition for Rights and the internet and a Rights based approach in Internet Governance? Discussants are: - Markus Kummer (IGF Secretariate - might have to send substitute) - Thomas Schneider (Swiss Government) - Marco Pancini -- Google's European Policy Counsel - Prof. Wolfgang Kleinwaechter (Civil Society) - Prof. Wolfgang Benedek (Civil Society) 2) Mainstreaming human rights in the work of the IGF (organized by Global Partners and the IBR coaltion) will be held at 11.30 am on Day 3 of the IGF (5th December) in room 5. Representatives from the dynamic coalitions - Accessibility and Disability (name tbc) - Access to Knowledge (Lea Shaver Bishop) - Framework of Principles for the Internet (Parminder Jeet Singh) - Internet Bill of Rights (Shaila Misty) - Linguistic Diversity (Viola Krebs) - Privacy (Ralf Bendrath) Other stakeholders: - Peter Hellmonds (Nokia-Siemens Group) - Miriam Sapiro (Summit Strategies International) - Council of Europe (name tbc) - Shahzad Ahmad (Bytes For All) The discussion will be moderated by Andrew Puddephatt, Director of Global Partners Please also notice that the discussants are posting their positions and ideas on the IBR list before the workshop. You are invited to join and shape the discussion. Looking forward to a productive time in India Max On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Parminder wrote: > Hi All > > > > The final program of the three workshops sponsored by the IGC for IGF, > Hyderabad, is now ready. > > > > The three workshops are > > > > 1) The role and mandate of the IGF, December 6th 9 to 1030, ( > http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=71 ) > > > > 2) The Transboundary Internet: Jurisdiction, Control and > Sovereignty, December 4th, 16 to 1730 ( > http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=63 ) > > > > 3) Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach, > on December 6th, 11:30 - 13:00, See details of the workshop at ( > http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=66 ) > > > > > > Apart for these, IGC is also co-sponsoring the workshop on The Future of > ICANN: After the JPA, What? December 4th, 11- 1230 ( > http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=9 ) > > > > Thanks to the IGC working groups who worked hard to organize these > workshops. > > > > IGC members who wish to give comments on the subjects of the above > workshops may do so, and it is expected that the IGC participants in these > workshops will take note of them. > > > > Parminder > > > > PS : The full IGF program can be seen at > http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/hyderabad_prog/Workshop_Schedule.htm . > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- ------------------------------------------------- "I am, You are, We are information" Camille de Toledo - Coming of Age at the End of History ------------------------------------------------- Dr. Max Senges www.maxsenges.com www.knowledgeentrepreneur.com ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From b.schombe at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 10:28:06 2008 From: b.schombe at gmail.com (BAUDOUIN SCHOMBE) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 07:28:06 -0800 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad IGC meeeting In-Reply-To: <8ECD4E1646BF49AB93A1A6DCB7E2006E@IAN> References: <8ECD4E1646BF49AB93A1A6DCB7E2006E@IAN> Message-ID: the first option will be ok. Baudouin 2008/11/16 Ian Peter > Can people give an idea of their preference for a meeting? The choices seem > to be > > 2nd (day before IGF) at 1830 (after Giganet business meeting) > 3rd (after 1st day of IGF) probably about 1745 after sessions finish > > I'm tending towards the 2nd - if so, we should try to keep the meeting to > no > more than one hour as it will have been a long day for some. But please > give > an idea of which you prefer. > > > > > > Ian Peter > PO Box 429 > Bangalow NSW 2479 > Australia > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] > > Sent: 11 November 2008 06:04 > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > > > Hi Anja and all > > > > You're right, the IGF starts on the 3rd (Wednesday), and GigaNet > > symposium is held on the 2nd, until 18:30. > > Having an IGC meeting right after GigaNet business meeting (i.e. > > 18:30-20:30) could be an option, especially since, most probably, we > > could keep the same room (Parminder, I can ask if you want me to do > > so, since I'm anyhow in contact with the IGF secretariat and with > > HICC event manager re: logistics issues). > > > > Best, > > Meryem > > > > -- > > Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org > > IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire > > 40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris > > > > > > Le 10 nov. 08 à 08:32, Anja a écrit : > > > > > Param, doesn't the IGF start on the 3rd? > > > > > > Anja > > > > > > Parminder wrote: > > >> > > >> Ian > > >> > > >> After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC > > >> meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does > > >> the evening of 1^st (eve of IGF) or 2^nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound > > >> to all those who will be attending. > > >> > > >> I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF > > >> should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting > > >> to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the > > >> IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, > > >> onwards. > > >> > > >> I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. > > >> > > >> Parminder > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> --- > > >> > > >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM > > >> *To:* 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder' > > >> *Subject:* RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless > > >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > >> > > >> Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before > > >> pressing send. That was meant to be offlist…. > > >> > > >> Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to > > >> discuss in any case. > > >> > > >> Ian Peter > > >> > > >> PO Box 429 > > >> > > >> Bangalow NSW 2479 > > >> > > >> Australia > > >> > > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > >> > > >> www.ianpeter.com > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> --- > > >> > > >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 17:14 > > >> *To:* 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder' > > >> *Subject:* OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless > > >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > >> > > >> Hi Parminder, > > >> > > >> Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before > > >> Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night > > >> before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in > > >> early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something > > >> like that seems important). I'll respond but will be interested to > > >> see what others say first. > > >> > > >> On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for > > >> your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release > > >> names periodically as they are received and certainly before > > >> Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post > > >> Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add > > >> names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I > > >> think that might be the way to get the best field. > > >> > > >> All the best, > > >> > > >> Ian Peter > > >> > > >> PO Box 429 > > >> > > >> Bangalow NSW 2479 > > >> > > >> Australia > > >> > > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > >> > > >> www.ianpeter.com > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> --- > > >> > > >> *From:* Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 16:51 > > >> *To:* 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; > > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > > >> *Subject:* RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced > > >> marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > >> > > >> >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > > >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we > > >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues > > >> (lest anyone take offence?) > > >> > > >> Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. > > >> > > >> Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil > > >> society's best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that > > >> is relatively representative of people and groups across the > > >> world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from > > >> strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on > > >> the other. > > >> > > >> However, many others in the civil society, including within the > > >> IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind > > >> strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue > > >> has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity > > >> of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive > > >> inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, > > >> outputs on key IG issues. > > >> > > >> I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on > > >> this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need > > >> to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. > > >> > > >> It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the > > >> danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of > > >> any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would > > >> it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In > > >> light of such a review we may need to have clearer common > > >> positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want > > >> to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative > > >> in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start > > >> in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said > > >> and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications > > >> for this review. > > >> > > >> Parminder > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> --- > > >> > > >> *From:* gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] > > >> *On Behalf Of *Ian Peter > > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM > > >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > > >> *Cc:* 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' > > >> *Subject:* [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage > > >> Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > >> > > >> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the > > >> opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and > > >> avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > > >> > > >> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > > >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we > > >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues > > >> (lest anyone take offence?) > > >> > > >> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn't succeed in > > >> addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does > > >> succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick…. > > >> > > >> Ian Peter > > >> > > >> PO Box 429 > > >> > > >> Bangalow NSW 2479 > > >> > > >> Australia > > >> > > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > >> > > >> www.ianpeter.com > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> --- > > >> > > >> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 > > >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > > >> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > > >> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: > > >> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > > >> > > >> Dear Wolfgang > > >> > > >> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most > > >> notably about the IGF. > > >> > > >> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > > >> > > >> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate > > >> actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was > > >> established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at > > >> the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around > > >> and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of > > >> time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And > > >> that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that > > >> we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize > > >> the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet- > > >> related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data > > >> protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of > > >> Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about > > >> Internet." It's an issue for everyone./ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Best Francis > > >> > > >> --------------------------------- > > >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 > > >> > > >> 7 November 2008, 12:30 > > >> > > >> > > >> *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* > > >> > > >> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better > > >> collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1] > > >> * (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and > > >> Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and > > >> criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," > > >> said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. > > >> According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each > > >> other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications > > >> and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". > > >> > > >> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not > > >> spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. > > >> Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his > > >> organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage > > >> and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively > > >> describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely > > >> cosmetic. > > >> > > >> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, > > >> which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi- > > >> internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further > > >> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. > > >> Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. > > >> According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win > > >> a war, is to prevent it." > > >> > > >> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively > > >> to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he > > >> noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with > > >> which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, > > >> standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), > > >> cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child > > >> protection online. > > >> > > >> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as > > >> global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has > > >> clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." > > >> However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its > > >> *Cybersecurity Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global > > >> framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. > > >> He also defended the controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard > > >> proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's > > >> just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. > > >> > > >> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed > > >> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector > > >> members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs > > >> as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the > > >> *World Summit on the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, > > >> organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN > > >> summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the > > >> table, rather than demonstrating outside. > > >> > > >> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the > > >> *Internet Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being > > >> by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is > > >> continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is > > >> becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is > > >> planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival > > >> event. > > >> > > >> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work > > >> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory > > >> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was > > >> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory > > >> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. > > >> "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." > > >> The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted > > >> Touré forthrightly. > > >> > > >> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian > > >> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his > > >> and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". > > >> Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by > > >> contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very > > >> different political models, "From the viewpoint of an > > >> international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, > > >> because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an > > >> international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he > > >> opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between > > >> interested parties. He noted that both models have their > > >> advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn > > >> to operate within both models. > > >> > > >> (//Monika Ermert//) > > >> > > >> (*lghp[9]*) > > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> **URL of this Article:** > > >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > > >> > > >> **Links in this Article:** > > >> [1] http://www.itu.int/ > > >> [2] http://www.icann.org > > >> [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw- > > >> their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > > >> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > > >> [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > > >> [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > > >> [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > > >> [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > > >> [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > > >> > > >> Dear friends > > >> find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent > > >> ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very > > >> interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the > > >> principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very > > >> clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion > > >> and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual > > >> debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of > > >> cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of > > >> an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a > > >> network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and > > >> coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang > > >> ____________________________________________________________ > > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >> unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org> > > >> For all list information and functions, see: > > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > > >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > >> > > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > > >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > > >> > > > > > > -- > > > Dr. Anja Kovacs > > > Senior Research Associate > > > > > > IT for Change > > > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities > > > Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890 > > > > > > www.ITforChange.net > > > www.IS-Watch.net > > > http://India.IS-Watch.net > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 9/12/2008 > > 2:18 PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- SCHOMBE BAUDOUIN COORDONNATEUR NATIONAL REPRONTIC COORDONNATEUR SOUS REGIONAL ACSIS/AFRIQUE CENTRALE MEMBRE FACILITATEUR GAID AFRIQUE téléphone fixe: +243 1510 34 91 Téléphone mobile:+243998983491 email:b.schombe at gmail.com http://akimambo.unblog.fr -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From renate.bloem at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 14:06:33 2008 From: renate.bloem at gmail.com (Renate Bloem (Gmail)) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:06:33 +0100 Subject: [governance] some more on EC 'enhanced cooperation' Message-ID: <4921c0c0.01b7660a.1ad1.ffffe583@mx.google.com> FYI, Best regards Renate ------------------------- Renate Bloem Past President of CONGO Civicus UN Geneva Tel:/Fax +33450 850815/16 Mobile : +41763462310 renate.bloem at civicus.org renate.bloem at gmail.com CIVICUS: World Alliance for Citizen Participation PO BOX 933, 2135, Johannesburg, South Africa www.civicus.org P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Note verbale-Int cooperation-e-.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 60878 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeremy.shtern at umontreal.ca Mon Nov 17 14:36:54 2008 From: jeremy.shtern at umontreal.ca (Jeremy Shtern) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 14:36:54 -0500 Subject: [governance] some more on EC 'enhanced cooperation' In-Reply-To: <4921c0c0.01b7660a.1ad1.ffffe583@mx.google.com> References: <4921c0c0.01b7660a.1ad1.ffffe583@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <4921C7D6.7000606@umontreal.ca> Thanks Renate, Can you or anyone else expand on whether this should be read between the lines as relating directly to do something about enhanced cooperation on human rights as they relate to IG? Or is this simply the term enhanced cooperation reappearing elsewhere? Thanks, Jeremy Renate Bloem (Gmail) wrote: > > FYI, > > > > Best regards > > Renate > > ------------------------- > > > > Renate Bloem > > Past President of CONGO > > * Civicus UN Geneva * > > Tel:/Fax +33450 850815/16 > > Mobile : +41763462310 > > renate.bloem at civicus.org > > renate.bloem at gmail.com > > > * CIVICUS: World Alliance for Citizen Participation * > > PO BOX 933 , 2135, Johannesburg , South Africa > www.civicus.org > > > > * * > > * P ** ** Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. > Thank you. * > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From renate.bloem at gmail.com Mon Nov 17 19:05:16 2008 From: renate.bloem at gmail.com (Renate Bloem (Gmail)) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 01:05:16 +0100 Subject: [governance] some more on EC 'enhanced cooperation' In-Reply-To: <4921C7D6.7000606@umontreal.ca> Message-ID: <492206c3.01b7660a.1ad1.2443@mx.google.com> Jeremy, At this time for more understanding of the context, just see the appended resolution itself. You can deduct your own conclusions. Best Renate _____ From: Jeremy Shtern [mailto:jeremy.shtern at umontreal.ca] Sent: lundi, 17. novembre 2008 20:37 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] some more on EC 'enhanced cooperation' Thanks Renate, Can you or anyone else expand on whether this should be read between the lines as relating directly to do something about enhanced cooperation on human rights as they relate to IG? Or is this simply the term enhanced cooperation reappearing elsewhere? Thanks, Jeremy Renate Bloem (Gmail) wrote: FYI, Best regards Renate ------------------------- Renate Bloem Past President of CONGO Civicus UN Geneva Tel:/Fax +33450 850815/16 Mobile : +41763462310 renate.bloem at civicus.org renate.bloem at gmail.com CIVICUS: World Alliance for Citizen Participation PO BOX 933 , 2135, Johannesburg , South Africa www.civicus.org P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: A-HRC-RES-7-3-e.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 27720 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Mon Nov 17 20:28:18 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 10:28:18 +0900 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <20081109070901.12C69A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> References: <20081109070901.12C69A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <1CF7BB93-4735-4A6D-A4DC-76EDA81D2294@graduateinstitute.ch> Hi, The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. Best, BD On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: > There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. > > > > Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit > late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other > than at IGFs. > > > > From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > > > Either date works for me – early evening to allow those who want to > take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. > > > > > > > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 > To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > > > Ian > > > > After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting > at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the > evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all > those who will be attending. > > > > I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF > should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to > engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the > IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, > onwards. > > > > I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. > > > > Parminder > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 17 00:14:06 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 21:14:06 -0800 Subject: [governance] Obama applicants face Web checks of Facebook, blog posts Message-ID: <4920FD9D.26ECD6D0@ix.netcom.com> All, This may cause a problem for the IG in promoting a Internet Bill of Rights in the near term after President Elect Obama takes office. But IMO, I can certainly understand his concern towards actually getting his Cyber agenda off to a good and productive start. Lets all be sure that trashing anyone personally as has been evident on this forum, is not continued and goes unnoticed by the future Obama administration. See: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/111408-obama-applicants-face-web-checks.html?netht=rn_111708&nladname=111708dailynewsamal Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeanette at wzb.eu Tue Nov 18 03:39:47 2008 From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 08:39:47 +0000 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions Message-ID: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> Hello, the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. The bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the secretariat. The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have some flexibility for regional balancing. Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in civil society. Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are particularly welcome! I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and Latin America may be more successful. Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and other groups. The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? Jeanette ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Tue Nov 18 04:54:38 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:24:38 +0530 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions In-Reply-To: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> Message-ID: Hello Jenette Hoffman and IGC, I wish to be one of the Speakers at either the opening or closing sessions of IGF balancing my roles primarily as a citizen of the host country individually concerned about the Internet Governance issues, as a member of the Internet Governance Caucus and as a responsible volunteer of the ISOC Chapter from the host country. In this message addressed to the IGC, I am requesting the IGC Coordinators and the Caucus to consider including my name as a Speaker eager to share some comprehensive thoughts on the theme as well as on the significance of Civil Society's participation in the Growth, Evolution and Governance of the Internet, if appropriate, or, in a topic suggested by the IGC as a topic in line with the theme of the session. Thank you Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > Hello, > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for > Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. The bad > news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the > secretariat. > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have > some flexibility for regional balancing. > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in > civil society. > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > particularly welcome! > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both > from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in terms > of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and Latin America > may be more successful. > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the secretariat > directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest that the IGC > mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put together a list of > names that enjoys support from its members and other groups. > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? > > Jeanette > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 17 07:08:34 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:08:34 -0800 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <49215EC2.1ACB3D65@ix.netcom.com> Jeanette and all, Why are female speakers "particularly welcome"? Is there a gender bias that is preferred? Wouldn't such a preference go against balance? Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > Hello, > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for > Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. The > bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the > secretariat. > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have > some flexibility for regional balancing. > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in > civil society. > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > particularly welcome! > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both > from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in > terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and > Latin America may be more successful. > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest > that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put > together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and other > groups. > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? > > Jeanette > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 17 07:10:34 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 04:10:34 -0800 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <49215F3A.52AA3CA7@ix.netcom.com> Siva and all, I am sure you would make a very fine speaker! >:) Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello Jenette Hoffman and IGC, > > I wish to be one of the Speakers at either the opening or closing > sessions of IGF balancing my roles primarily as a citizen of the host > country individually concerned about the Internet Governance issues, > as a member of the Internet Governance Caucus and as a responsible > volunteer of the ISOC Chapter from the host country. > > In this message addressed to the IGC, I am requesting the IGC > Coordinators and the Caucus to consider including my name as a Speaker > eager to share some comprehensive thoughts on the theme as well as on > the significance of Civil Society's participation in the Growth, > Evolution and Governance of the Internet, if appropriate, or, in a > topic suggested by the IGC as a topic in line with the theme of the > session. > > Thank you > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeanette Hofmann > wrote: > > Hello, > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions > to fill for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for > the closing session. The bad news is that we have only one > week to send a list of names to the secretariat. > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three > names to have some flexibility for regional balancing. > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with > standing in civil society. > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers > are particularly welcome! > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private > sector are both from India. So, we may propose additional > speakers from India but in terms of regional balance, > suggestions for speakers from Africa and Latin America may > be more successful. > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. > And, of course, everyone is free to send suggestions for > speakers to the secretariat directly. However, for practical > reasons I would suggest that the IGC mailing list assumes a > coordinating role and aims to put together a list of names > that enjoys support from its members and other groups. > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we > manage this? > > Jeanette > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Tue Nov 18 05:18:33 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 21:18:33 +1100 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions In-Reply-To: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <0A52272BA60647A2BED21369FC535D40@IAN> I think its important we respond to this as a group, and I also think its important that the names we put forward are people we know will do a good job. Jeanette, would you be willing to join the co-ordinators in a small committee to vet names put forward on this list? And if anyone else would like to join this small group to co-ordinate a list of names to go forward could you drop me or Parminder a line? If that's acceptable, we can ask people to nominate names for consideration here. I would like to begin that process by putting forward for consideration Anriette Esterhuysen. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] > Sent: 18 November 2008 19:40 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > > Hello, > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for > Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. The > bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the > secretariat. > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have > some flexibility for regional balancing. > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in > civil society. > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > particularly welcome! > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both > from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in > terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and > Latin America may be more successful. > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest > that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put > together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and other > groups. > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? > > Jeanette > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 11/15/2008 9:32 AM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Tue Nov 18 06:34:51 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 12:34:51 +0100 Subject: SV: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> <49215F3A.52AA3CA7@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842650A@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Jeff what about you as a speaker? wolfgang ________________________________ Fra: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com] Sendt: ma 17-11-2008 13:10 Til: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Cc: Jeanette Hofmann Emne: Re: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions Siva and all, I am sure you would make a very fine speaker! >:) Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello Jenette Hoffman and IGC, > > I wish to be one of the Speakers at either the opening or closing > sessions of IGF balancing my roles primarily as a citizen of the host > country individually concerned about the Internet Governance issues, > as a member of the Internet Governance Caucus and as a responsible > volunteer of the ISOC Chapter from the host country. > > In this message addressed to the IGC, I am requesting the IGC > Coordinators and the Caucus to consider including my name as a Speaker > eager to share some comprehensive thoughts on the theme as well as on > the significance of Civil Society's participation in the Growth, > Evolution and Governance of the Internet, if appropriate, or, in a > topic suggested by the IGC as a topic in line with the theme of the > session. > > Thank you > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeanette Hofmann > wrote: > > Hello, > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions > to fill for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for > the closing session. The bad news is that we have only one > week to send a list of names to the secretariat. > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three > names to have some flexibility for regional balancing. > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with > standing in civil society. > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers > are particularly welcome! > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private > sector are both from India. So, we may propose additional > speakers from India but in terms of regional balance, > suggestions for speakers from Africa and Latin America may > be more successful. > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. > And, of course, everyone is free to send suggestions for > speakers to the secretariat directly. However, for practical > reasons I would suggest that the IGC mailing list assumes a > coordinating role and aims to put together a list of names > that enjoys support from its members and other groups. > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we > manage this? > > Jeanette > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > -- > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Tue Nov 18 07:32:25 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:02:25 +0530 Subject: [governance] online submissions for open dialogue sessions In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842650A@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <20081118123235.2E664E0494@smtp3.electricembers.net> Hi All One main format innovation for the IGF, Hyderabad, is 3 hours open dialogue session in the afternoon for each day's key theme. Questions can be submitted online before hand for these sessions to igf[at]unog.ch This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it . See http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ for the announcement which read "Please submit any questions you would like to be addressed in Hyderabad to igf[at]unog.ch This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it . They should relate to the broad themes listed on the programme of the main sessions." Parminder -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ginger at paque.net Tue Nov 18 07:54:03 2008 From: ginger at paque.net (Ginger Paque) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 08:24:03 -0430 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions In-Reply-To: <0A52272BA60647A2BED21369FC535D40@IAN> References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> <0A52272BA60647A2BED21369FC535D40@IAN> Message-ID: <005801c9497c$bd4e2fc0$6401a8c0@GINGERLAPTOP> I think that it is just as reasonable to look for gender balance, as it is to look for regional (geographic) balance among our many qualified speaker candidates. I suggest that Graciela Saleman and Valeria Betancourt be considered for speaking slots. Thanks, Ginger -----Mensaje original----- De: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2008 05:49 a.m. Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Jeanette Hofmann' Asunto: RE: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions I think its important we respond to this as a group, and I also think its important that the names we put forward are people we know will do a good job. Jeanette, would you be willing to join the co-ordinators in a small committee to vet names put forward on this list? And if anyone else would like to join this small group to co-ordinate a list of names to go forward could you drop me or Parminder a line? If that's acceptable, we can ask people to nominate names for consideration here. I would like to begin that process by putting forward for consideration Anriette Esterhuysen. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] > Sent: 18 November 2008 19:40 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > > Hello, > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for > Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. The > bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the > secretariat. > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have > some flexibility for regional balancing. > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in > civil society. > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > particularly welcome! > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both > from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in > terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and > Latin America may be more successful. > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest > that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put > together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and other > groups. > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? > > Jeanette > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 11/15/2008 9:32 AM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr Tue Nov 18 08:12:03 2008 From: jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr (jlfullsack) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 14:12:03 +0100 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad References: <20081109070901.12C69A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> <1CF7BB93-4735-4A6D-A4DC-76EDA81D2294@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: <0309602A4DC44FD1AA232522F0FDEA12@PCbureau> Hi Bill I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. All the best Jean-Louis Fullsack Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des télécommunications' which best reflects my own experience with, and opinion about, the ITU ----- Original Message ----- From: William Drake To: Governance Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi, The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. Best, BD On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other than at IGFs. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Either date works for me – early evening to allow those who want to take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Ian After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be attending. I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. Parminder ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de Tue Nov 18 09:27:12 2008 From: bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Ralf Bendrath) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 15:27:12 +0100 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad IGC meeeting In-Reply-To: <8ECD4E1646BF49AB93A1A6DCB7E2006E@IAN> References: <8ECD4E1646BF49AB93A1A6DCB7E2006E@IAN> Message-ID: <4922D0C0.9020109@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Ian Peter schrieb: > Can people give an idea of their preference for a meeting? The choices seem > to be > > 2nd (day before IGF) at 1830 (after Giganet business meeting) > 3rd (after 1st day of IGF) probably about 1745 after sessions finish > > I'm tending towards the 2nd Me too. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From llynch at civil-tongue.net Tue Nov 18 09:47:13 2008 From: llynch at civil-tongue.net (Lucy Lynch) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:47:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: SV: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842650A@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> <49215F3A.52AA3CA7@ix.netcom.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842650A@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 Nov 2008, Kleinw?chter, Wolfgang wrote: > Jeff > > what about you as a speaker? LOL! If you can get "him" to come - please take pictures! - Lucy > wolfgang > > > > ________________________________ > > Fra: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com] > Sendt: ma 17-11-2008 13:10 > Til: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > Cc: Jeanette Hofmann > Emne: Re: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > > > > Siva and all, > > I am sure you would make a very fine speaker! >:) > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > >> Hello Jenette Hoffman and IGC, >> >> I wish to be one of the Speakers at either the opening or closing >> sessions of IGF balancing my roles primarily as a citizen of the host >> country individually concerned about the Internet Governance issues, >> as a member of the Internet Governance Caucus and as a responsible >> volunteer of the ISOC Chapter from the host country. >> >> In this message addressed to the IGC, I am requesting the IGC >> Coordinators and the Caucus to consider including my name as a Speaker >> eager to share some comprehensive thoughts on the theme as well as on >> the significance of Civil Society's participation in the Growth, >> Evolution and Governance of the Internet, if appropriate, or, in a >> topic suggested by the IGC as a topic in line with the theme of the >> session. >> >> Thank you >> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeanette Hofmann >> wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions >> to fill for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for >> the closing session. The bad news is that we have only one >> week to send a list of names to the secretariat. >> >> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three >> names to have some flexibility for regional balancing. >> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with >> standing in civil society. >> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers >> are particularly welcome! >> >> I have been told that the two speakers from the private >> sector are both from India. So, we may propose additional >> speakers from India but in terms of regional balance, >> suggestions for speakers from Africa and Latin America may >> be more successful. >> >> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. >> And, of course, everyone is free to send suggestions for >> speakers to the secretariat directly. However, for practical >> reasons I would suggest that the IGC mailing list assumes a >> coordinating role and aims to put together a list of names >> that enjoys support from its members and other groups. >> >> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we >> manage this? >> >> Jeanette >> ____________________________________________________________ >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > =============================================================== > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeanette at wzb.eu Tue Nov 18 13:55:01 2008 From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 18:55:01 +0000 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions In-Reply-To: <0A52272BA60647A2BED21369FC535D40@IAN> References: <0A52272BA60647A2BED21369FC535D40@IAN> Message-ID: <49230F85.1000904@wzb.eu> Ian Peter wrote: > I think its important we respond to this as a group, and I also think its > important that the names we put forward are people we know will do a good > job. Jeanette, would you be willing to join the co-ordinators in a small > committee to vet names put forward on this list? Yes, no problem. And hopefully we see more names coming up in the next days. jeanette And if anyone else would > like to join this small group to co-ordinate a list of names to go forward > could you drop me or Parminder a line? > > If that's acceptable, we can ask people to nominate names for consideration > here. I would like to begin that process by putting forward for > consideration Anriette Esterhuysen. > > > > Ian Peter > PO Box 429 > Bangalow NSW 2479 > Australia > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > www.ianpeter.com > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] >> Sent: 18 November 2008 19:40 >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >> Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions >> >> Hello, >> >> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for >> Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. The >> bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the >> secretariat. >> >> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have >> some flexibility for regional balancing. >> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in >> civil society. >> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are >> particularly welcome! >> >> I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both >> from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in >> terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and >> Latin America may be more successful. >> >> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of >> course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the >> secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest >> that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put >> together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and other >> groups. >> >> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? >> >> Jeanette >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: >> 11/15/2008 9:32 AM > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Tue Nov 18 15:16:53 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 07:16:53 +1100 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions In-Reply-To: <49230F85.1000904@wzb.eu> Message-ID: Thanks Jeanette! I suggest we have until midnight Saturday (23rd) to nominate names. That will give the committee a little time to finalise the list and inform the Secretariat before the deadline. So please give thought to suggested speakers and place them on the list before then. Thanks for all the suggestions to date - if your name has been suggested and you are either unwilling or not attending, can you let us know? More suggestions for speakers who can represent civil society please! Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] > Sent: 19 November 2008 05:55 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter > Subject: Re: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > > > > Ian Peter wrote: > > I think its important we respond to this as a group, and I also think > its > > important that the names we put forward are people we know will do a > good > > job. Jeanette, would you be willing to join the co-ordinators in a small > > committee to vet names put forward on this list? > > Yes, no problem. And hopefully we see more names coming up in the next > days. > jeanette > And if anyone else would > > like to join this small group to co-ordinate a list of names to go > forward > > could you drop me or Parminder a line? > > > > If that's acceptable, we can ask people to nominate names for > consideration > > here. I would like to begin that process by putting forward for > > consideration Anriette Esterhuysen. > > > > > > > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] > >> Sent: 18 November 2008 19:40 > >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for > >> Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. > The > >> bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the > >> secretariat. > >> > >> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have > >> some flexibility for regional balancing. > >> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in > >> civil society. > >> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > >> particularly welcome! > >> > >> I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both > >> from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in > >> terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and > >> Latin America may be more successful. > >> > >> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > >> course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > >> secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest > >> that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put > >> together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and other > >> groups. > >> > >> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage > this? > >> > >> Jeanette > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >> > >> For all list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > >> 11/15/2008 9:32 AM > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 11/15/2008 9:32 AM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 17 19:10:04 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:10:04 -0800 Subject: SV: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> <49215F3A.52AA3CA7@ix.netcom.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842650A@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <492207DC.32AD8801@ix.netcom.com> Wolfgang and all, Thank you for considering me. I wish I could say definitely that I could do so, but alas I am not even yet sure I will be able to attend, but I am prepared to do so if I am able to. However I am willing to submit a written presentation if I am unable to attend, and if that is expectable to all. I also believe from what I have read of your remarks of late, and in total, that you also Wolfgang would be an excellent speaker. I hope you will do so if your are attending. I would also like to introduce Prof. Paul Ohm a expert IMO and others, on Internet privacy. I have suggested to him to join the IGC and consider attending and ask to be able to give a speech on his latest paper on same, see: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1261344 I read this paper now twice, and found it excellent and very much to the issue in an Internet Bill of Rights of privacy and security. In that Privacy and Security are irrevocably linked, ergo not separable reasonably, and a of my own, as well as now the future Obama administration, extreme interest, I believe that the timing is good to get the difficult, and often ideologically charged sides of this issue to be dealt with and hopefully solved in a global consensus manner. Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > Jeff > > what about you as a speaker? > > wolfgang > > > > ________________________________ > > Fra: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com] > Sendt: ma 17-11-2008 13:10 > Til: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > Cc: Jeanette Hofmann > Emne: Re: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > > Siva and all, > > I am sure you would make a very fine speaker! >:) > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > > > Hello Jenette Hoffman and IGC, > > > > I wish to be one of the Speakers at either the opening or closing > > sessions of IGF balancing my roles primarily as a citizen of the host > > country individually concerned about the Internet Governance issues, > > as a member of the Internet Governance Caucus and as a responsible > > volunteer of the ISOC Chapter from the host country. > > > > In this message addressed to the IGC, I am requesting the IGC > > Coordinators and the Caucus to consider including my name as a Speaker > > eager to share some comprehensive thoughts on the theme as well as on > > the significance of Civil Society's participation in the Growth, > > Evolution and Governance of the Internet, if appropriate, or, in a > > topic suggested by the IGC as a topic in line with the theme of the > > session. > > > > Thank you > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeanette Hofmann > > wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions > > to fill for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for > > the closing session. The bad news is that we have only one > > week to send a list of names to the secretariat. > > > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three > > names to have some flexibility for regional balancing. > > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with > > standing in civil society. > > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers > > are particularly welcome! > > > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private > > sector are both from India. So, we may propose additional > > speakers from India but in terms of regional balance, > > suggestions for speakers from Africa and Latin America may > > be more successful. > > > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. > > And, of course, everyone is free to send suggestions for > > speakers to the secretariat directly. However, for practical > > reasons I would suggest that the IGC mailing list assumes a > > coordinating role and aims to put together a list of names > > that enjoys support from its members and other groups. > > > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we > > manage this? > > > > Jeanette > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > > -- > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > =============================================================== > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ca at rits.org.br Tue Nov 18 17:23:26 2008 From: ca at rits.org.br (Carlos Afonso) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:23:26 -0200 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions In-Reply-To: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <4923405E.6010005@rits.org.br> >From Latin America I suggest the names of Valeria Betancourt and Graciela Selaimen. --c.a. Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > Hello, > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for > Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. The > bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the > secretariat. > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have > some flexibility for regional balancing. > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in > civil society. > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > particularly welcome! > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both > from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in > terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and > Latin America may be more successful. > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest > that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put > together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and other > groups. > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? > > Jeanette > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 17 19:40:33 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 16:40:33 -0800 Subject: SV: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> <49215F3A.52AA3CA7@ix.netcom.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842650A@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <49220F00.B0738F8D@ix.netcom.com> Lucy and all, Your response was shall I say, "Palenesque". >:) Yet... If you want pictures, you should have ask. I will be glad to provide some. >:) But your point is still well taken. My working obligations along with my care obligations of my elderly mother whom I am legal guardian for, make it difficult for me to travel allot or even very often. Sorry if that distresses you or anyone... Perhaps in the future when indirectly address me or in regards to me you can fulfil your Domain Names obligation? Or is that too great of a challange fo you? >:) You might also give some serious consideration in cleaning up your Domain Names DNS configuration as well, see: http://member.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnslite.php?r=homepage&domain=civil-tongue.net and http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=civil-tongue.net&token=263046ee73cc0b930c8066882f32a019 Lucy Lynch wrote: > On Tue, 18 Nov 2008, Kleinw?chter, Wolfgang wrote: > > > Jeff > > > > what about you as a speaker? > > LOL! If you can get "him" to come - please take pictures! > > - Lucy > > > wolfgang > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > Fra: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com] > > Sendt: ma 17-11-2008 13:10 > > Til: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > Cc: Jeanette Hofmann > > Emne: Re: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > > > > > > > > Siva and all, > > > > I am sure you would make a very fine speaker! >:) > > > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > > > >> Hello Jenette Hoffman and IGC, > >> > >> I wish to be one of the Speakers at either the opening or closing > >> sessions of IGF balancing my roles primarily as a citizen of the host > >> country individually concerned about the Internet Governance issues, > >> as a member of the Internet Governance Caucus and as a responsible > >> volunteer of the ISOC Chapter from the host country. > >> > >> In this message addressed to the IGC, I am requesting the IGC > >> Coordinators and the Caucus to consider including my name as a Speaker > >> eager to share some comprehensive thoughts on the theme as well as on > >> the significance of Civil Society's participation in the Growth, > >> Evolution and Governance of the Internet, if appropriate, or, in a > >> topic suggested by the IGC as a topic in line with the theme of the > >> session. > >> > >> Thank you > >> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeanette Hofmann > >> wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions > >> to fill for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for > >> the closing session. The bad news is that we have only one > >> week to send a list of names to the secretariat. > >> > >> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three > >> names to have some flexibility for regional balancing. > >> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with > >> standing in civil society. > >> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers > >> are particularly welcome! > >> > >> I have been told that the two speakers from the private > >> sector are both from India. So, we may propose additional > >> speakers from India but in terms of regional balance, > >> suggestions for speakers from Africa and Latin America may > >> be more successful. > >> > >> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. > >> And, of course, everyone is free to send suggestions for > >> speakers to the secretariat directly. However, for practical > >> reasons I would suggest that the IGC mailing list assumes a > >> coordinating role and aims to put together a list of names > >> that enjoys support from its members and other groups. > >> > >> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we > >> manage this? > >> > >> Jeanette > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >> > >> For all list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >> > >> For all list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >> > > > > Regards, > > > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > > Abraham Lincoln > > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > > =============================================================== > > Updated 1/26/04 > > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ginger at paque.net Tue Nov 18 18:32:56 2008 From: ginger at paque.net (Ginger Paque) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 19:02:56 -0430 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions In-Reply-To: <4923405E.6010005@rits.org.br> References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> <4923405E.6010005@rits.org.br> Message-ID: <017001c949d5$fd1e1a80$6401a8c0@GINGERLAPTOP> I strongly support the suggestion of Valeria Betancourt and Graciela Saleman as excellent possibilities for speakers. -----Mensaje original----- De: Carlos Afonso [mailto:ca at rits.org.br] Enviado el: Martes, 18 de Noviembre de 2008 05:53 p.m. Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org Asunto: Re: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions >From Latin America I suggest the names of Valeria Betancourt and Graciela Selaimen. --c.a. Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > Hello, > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for > Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. The > bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the > secretariat. > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have > some flexibility for regional balancing. > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in > civil society. > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > particularly welcome! > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both > from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in > terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and > Latin America may be more successful. > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest > that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put > together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and other > groups. > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? > > Jeanette > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Tue Nov 18 20:10:23 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:10:23 +0900 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <0309602A4DC44FD1AA232522F0FDEA12@PCbureau> References: <20081109070901.12C69A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> <1CF7BB93-4735-4A6D-A4DC-76EDA81D2294@graduateinstitute.ch> <0309602A4DC44FD1AA232522F0FDEA12@PCbureau> Message-ID: <0009D035-E0D4-4A7B-98AC-4E54DEF96579@graduateinstitute.ch> Hi Jean-Louis, Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was emailing or something at the time. But I agree with you that the ITU/CS interface, or rather the lack thereof, urgently needs attention, especially since there is at least nominally a review underway in ITU and it'd be good to be useful to the friendly governments that asked for it. I've raised the matter a number of times on gov list over the years, suggested interested people collaborate, but never managed to stir much interest in this or the ITU more generally. If Toure's rather provocative speech in Cairo has changed the landscape and people are now concerned about what governments, telcos et al are up to in ITU, great. I'd of course be happy to talk to you about this stuff, but I don't think the two of us alone can do anything that would matter to ITU, the only thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. Best, Bill On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: > Hi Bill > > I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : > During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some > concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness > or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my > readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues > regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues > concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for > the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general > international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for > answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for > me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. > > All the best > Jean-Louis Fullsack > Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an > article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des > télécommunications' which best reflects my own experience with, and > opinion about, the ITU > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Drake > To: Governance > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM > Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Hi, > > The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the > week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. > > Best, > > BD > > > On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: > >> There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. >> >> >> Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit >> late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other >> than at IGFs. >> >> >> From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] >> Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >> Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad >> >> >> Either date works for me – early evening to allow those who want >> to take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. >> >> >> >> >> Ian Peter >> >> PO Box 429 >> >> Bangalow NSW 2479 >> >> Australia >> >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> >> www.ianpeter.com >> >> >> >> From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] >> Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 >> To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org >> Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad >> >> >> Ian >> >> >> After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC >> meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does >> the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to >> all those who will be attending. >> >> >> I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF >> should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting >> to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the >> IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, >> onwards. >> >> >> I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. >> >> >> Parminder >> >> > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch *********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 17 23:12:16 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 20:12:16 -0800 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad References: <20081109070901.12C69A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> <1CF7BB93-4735-4A6D-A4DC-76EDA81D2294@graduateinstitute.ch> <0309602A4DC44FD1AA232522F0FDEA12@PCbureau> <0009D035-E0D4-4A7B-98AC-4E54DEF96579@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: <492240A0.49EF4862@ix.netcom.com> Bill and all, I certainly believe that the ITU is a viable and established stakeholder, but alas I and our members have had and continue to have a rather bad taste in our mouths for the ITU's policies and practices or proposed policy strategy for the Internet especially in terms of access to knowledge. As such unless or until the ITU significantly modifies this strategy and practice, so that any an all stakeholders have free and unfettered access to ITU documents in respect to Internet related policies or proposed policies, we will continue to be unable as a matter of principal to be very supportive of the ITU. Ergo, it is my and nearly all of our members opinion that the ITU in terms of openness and transparency, isn't willing enough to work in a cooperative manner with all members of the Internet community. Yet as an eternal optimist, I remain hopeful that sometime in the unknown future the ITU's behavior in this and other policy areas and practices will discontinue its lack of helpful and inclusive cooperation with all Internet stakeholders, and that change, as the new US administration is also looking forward to will occur in my lifetime, but I am of course not holding my breath... William Drake wrote: > Hi Jean-Louis, > Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was emailing > or something at the time. But I agree with you that the ITU/CS > interface, or rather the lack thereof, urgently needs attention, > especially since there is at least nominally a review underway in ITU > and it'd be good to be useful to the friendly governments that asked > for it. I've raised the matter a number of times on gov list over the > years, suggested interested people collaborate, but never managed to > stir much interest in this or the ITU more generally. If Toure's > rather provocative speech in Cairo has changed the landscape and > people are now concerned about what governments, telcos et al are up > to in ITU, great. I'd of course be happy to talk to you about this > stuff, but I don't think the two of us alone can do anything that > would matter to ITU, the only thing that might resonate is a > collective engagement. > Best, > Bill > On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: > >> Hi Bill I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding >> :During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some >> concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness >> or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my >> readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues >> regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues >> concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for >> the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general >> international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for >> answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for >> me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. All the >> bestJean-Louis FullsackHave a look to our website www.csdptt.org >> where you'll find an article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la >> vieille dame des télécommunications' which best reflects my own >> experience with, and opinion about, the ITU >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: William Drake >> To: Governance >> Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM >> Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad >> Hi, The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as >> possible in the week, but after GigaNet would be >> problematic. Best, BD On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, >> Parminder wrote: >> >> > There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to >> > 1830 hours. >> > >> > Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it >> > is a bit late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC >> > gets to meet, other than at IGFs. >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------- >> > From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] >> > >> > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM >> > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >> > Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad >> > >> > Either date works for me – early evening to allow those >> > who want to take a meal together afterwards would >> > probably suit best. >> > >> > Ian Peter >> > >> > PO Box 429 >> > >> > Bangalow NSW 2479 >> > >> > Australia >> > >> > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> > >> > www.ianpeter.com >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------- >> > From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] >> > >> > Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 >> > To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org >> > Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad >> > >> > Ian >> > >> > After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary >> > IGC meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to >> > suggest. How does the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd >> > (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be >> > attending. >> > >> > I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the >> > way IGF should evolve, only seeking to orient the group >> > towards starting to engage with this issue. We have a >> > workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review process >> > kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. >> > >> > I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election >> > process. >> > >> > Parminder >> > >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ___________________________________________________________ >> >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> > *********************************************************** > William J. Drake > Senior Associate > Centre for International Governance > Graduate Institute of International and > Development Studies > Geneva, Switzerland > william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch > *********************************************************** > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Tue Nov 18 22:39:22 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 09:09:22 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <0009D035-E0D4-4A7B-98AC-4E54DEF96579@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: <20081119033942.DA93FA6C1E@smtp2.electricembers.net> Bill and Jean-Louis, We have been seeing some degree of concern over the lack of CS engagement with the increasing role that ITU plays in IG and in shaping the future of the Internet. Of course some of us have been expressing this concern for much longer. I remember that when I heard a passionate intervention of Bill’s during a CS meeting convened by APC in September on the sidelines of the MAG consultations, it set me thinking even more about how to get IGC to engage with the ITU. Later there were some more emails on the issue of IP trace-backs work being done by the ITU – and I remember one by Fouad – seeking a IGC/ CS stand on the issue. I propose that we shape for more active engagement with ITU, and for this we set up an IGF standing working group on ITU engagement, or whatever. This group can feed into IGC issues of greatest current importance, and those which are soon forthcoming, apart from suggesting a longer horizon engagement, and also perhaps their views on it, and such. Giving some clear shape to our possible engagements with the ITU is also important in view of the forthcoming ITU’s “World Telecommunications Policy Forum” early next year, which seems to be poised to get into some very significant issues. The same group could look into issue of structuring CS engagement with the ITU. Wont be bad if we try to propose some such structure on behalf of IGC as an entity, and see their response. I propose that Bill, Jean-Louis and Fouad be the initial members of this group, and whoever else wants to can opt-in. Since among these three, Bill has had the longest engagement with this group, I suggest he convenes the group on IGC’s behalf. Others may give their comments. Thanks. Parminder _____ From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:40 AM To: jlfullsack Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi Jean-Louis, Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was emailing or something at the time. But I agree with you that the ITU/CS interface, or rather the lack thereof, urgently needs attention, especially since there is at least nominally a review underway in ITU and it'd be good to be useful to the friendly governments that asked for it. I've raised the matter a number of times on gov list over the years, suggested interested people collaborate, but never managed to stir much interest in this or the ITU more generally. If Toure's rather provocative speech in Cairo has changed the landscape and people are now concerned about what governments, telcos et al are up to in ITU, great. I'd of course be happy to talk to you about this stuff, but I don't think the two of us alone can do anything that would matter to ITU, the only thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. Best, Bill On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: Hi Bill I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. All the best Jean-Louis Fullsack Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des télécommunications' which best reflects my own experience with, and opinion about, the ITU ----- Original Message ----- From: William Drake To: Governance Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi, The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. Best, BD On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other than at IGFs. _____ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Either date works for me – early evening to allow those who want to take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Ian After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be attending. I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. Parminder _____ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch *********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 18 01:59:45 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2008 22:59:45 -0800 Subject: SV: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions References: <49227F53.3000500@wzb.eu> <49215F3A.52AA3CA7@ix.netcom.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842650A@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <492207DC.32AD8801@ix.netcom.com> <49238EF5.5040508@colorado.edu> Message-ID: <492267E0.4122E7AB@ix.netcom.com> Prof. Ohm and all, Your welcome Prof. Your paper was interesting reading and very much to a significant issue now and long into the future. I am as part of this response, forwarding your remarks in response. It's unfortunate that you are not able to present your paper or some more important parts of it in Hyperabad. Paul K Ohm wrote: > Jeffrey, > > Thank you for the kind words (in this message and the earlier message). > My paper is so long, I'm surprised anybody has read it twice! Not even > my mother can make that claim! > > Thank you as well for recommending me as a speaker at the Hyperabad > meeting. I have followed the IGC and IGF from afar for a little while, > and although I am open to presenting my work to you all at some future > opportunity, it simply won't work in the near term. > > Please feel free to send any comments you have about the article. I'm > furiously working to get edits to the publishing journal. > > Professor Paul Ohm > University of Colorado > USA > > Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: > > Wolfgang and all, > > > > Thank you for considering me. I wish I could say definitely that > > I could do so, but alas I am not even yet sure I will be able to > > attend, but I am prepared to do so if I am able to. However I > > am willing to submit a written presentation if I am unable to attend, > > and if that is expectable to all. > > > > I also believe from what I have read of your remarks of late, > > and in total, that you also Wolfgang would be an excellent > > speaker. I hope you will do so if your are attending. > > > > I would also like to introduce Prof. Paul Ohm a expert IMO > > and others, on Internet privacy. I have suggested to him to join > > the IGC and consider attending and ask to be able to give a > > speech on his latest paper on same, see: > > http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1261344 > > I read this paper now twice, and found it excellent and very much > > to the issue in an Internet Bill of Rights of privacy and security. > > > > In that Privacy and Security are irrevocably linked, ergo not > > separable reasonably, and a of my own, as well as now the > > future Obama administration, extreme interest, I believe that > > the timing is good to get the difficult, and often ideologically charged > > sides of this issue to be dealt with and hopefully solved in a global > > consensus manner. > > > > Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > > > > > >> Jeff > >> > >> what about you as a speaker? > >> > >> wolfgang > >> > >> > >> > >> ________________________________ > >> > >> Fra: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com] > >> Sendt: ma 17-11-2008 13:10 > >> Til: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > >> Cc: Jeanette Hofmann > >> Emne: Re: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > >> > >> Siva and all, > >> > >> I am sure you would make a very fine speaker! >:) > >> > >> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > >> > >> > >>> Hello Jenette Hoffman and IGC, > >>> > >>> I wish to be one of the Speakers at either the opening or closing > >>> sessions of IGF balancing my roles primarily as a citizen of the host > >>> country individually concerned about the Internet Governance issues, > >>> as a member of the Internet Governance Caucus and as a responsible > >>> volunteer of the ISOC Chapter from the host country. > >>> > >>> In this message addressed to the IGC, I am requesting the IGC > >>> Coordinators and the Caucus to consider including my name as a Speaker > >>> eager to share some comprehensive thoughts on the theme as well as on > >>> the significance of Civil Society's participation in the Growth, > >>> Evolution and Governance of the Internet, if appropriate, or, in a > >>> topic suggested by the IGC as a topic in line with the theme of the > >>> session. > >>> > >>> Thank you > >>> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Jeanette Hofmann > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>> > >>> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions > >>> to fill for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for > >>> the closing session. The bad news is that we have only one > >>> week to send a list of names to the secretariat. > >>> > >>> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three > >>> names to have some flexibility for regional balancing. > >>> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with > >>> standing in civil society. > >>> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers > >>> are particularly welcome! > >>> > >>> I have been told that the two speakers from the private > >>> sector are both from India. So, we may propose additional > >>> speakers from India but in terms of regional balance, > >>> suggestions for speakers from Africa and Latin America may > >>> be more successful. > >>> > >>> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. > >>> And, of course, everyone is free to send suggestions for > >>> speakers to the secretariat directly. However, for practical > >>> reasons I would suggest that the IGC mailing list assumes a > >>> coordinating role and aims to put together a list of names > >>> that enjoys support from its members and other groups. > >>> > >>> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we > >>> manage this? > >>> > >>> Jeanette > >>> ____________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >>> > >>> For all list information and functions, see: > >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> ____________________________________________________________ > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >>> > >>> For all list information and functions, see: > >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >>> > >>> > >> Regards, > >> > >> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > >> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > >> Abraham Lincoln > >> "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > >> > >> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > >> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > >> > >> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > >> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > >> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > >> United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > >> =============================================================== > >> Updated 1/26/04 > >> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > >> div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > >> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > >> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > >> My Phone: 214-244-4827 > >> > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >> > >> For all list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >> > > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 00:55:25 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 11:25:25 +0530 Subject: [governance] Turkey tabled a resolution to strengthen the role of ITU in the IGF? Message-ID: Hello All, A circle ID report says that ITU had (earlier) tabled a resolution to strengthen the role of the ITU at the IGF. This report outlines the most recent developments. http://www.circleid.com/posts/itu_controversy_internet_governance/ -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy ( Link to my article in Circle ID on ITU : Overture to take over Internet Governance: ITU at the ICANN, Cairo http://www.circleid.com/posts/20081115_take_over_internet_governace_itu_icann/) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Wed Nov 19 04:27:21 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 10:27:21 +0100 Subject: SV: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad References: <20081119033942.DA93FA6C1E@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Parminder this is a good step which we have to take and I can aonly support your proposal. Bill who has raised this issue again and again is the right man at the right place to get a mandate from ther IGC and I will be ready to join the small "Drake Committee". Toure said in Cairo that the door is open for CS. Lets try to get it. During WSIS (before Antalya) I had various disucssions with Richard Hill and Robert Shaw who already at this time tried to help to open the door for CS to ITU. Their proposal was to have a broad interpretation of "sector members" but one big barrier was the high fee which sector members have to pay. Antalya was one step in the right direction. The weakness of the process so far is, that the ITU Working Group which was established to explore the possibilities of CS involvement in ITU is open only for member states. CS has no voice (and certainly no vote) in this process. There are some reports of this WG to the ITU Council but a new decision can be made only by the next ITU Plenipotentiary Conference scheduled for Mexico in 2010. So far the only way CS can become engaged is via sector membership. Toure said in Cairo that they now have abolished the fee for CS organizations which can proof that they are really non-commercial. But he said also that a CS application needs the surpport of the the relevant government of the member state where the CS is at home. Certainly this "governmental screening" does not work. Imagine if a CS organisation critizising its govenrment at home for stupid telecom policy has to go to the minister and ask for a signed letter of support for ITU sector membership? This is nonsense. Even more, what about international / global CS units which operate as networks? Like the IGC? Which is the relevant administration? Is it the Indian govenrment because Parminder as the chair has Indian citizenship? I am following the debate since 1994 when the ITU Plenipotentiary Conference in Kyodo opened as first intergovernmental UN organisation its door to non-govenrmental units by establishing - into the constitution - a new membership category (with limited rights) which was called "sector membership". This was really an innovation in international law. Other organisations working closely with NGOs - like UNESCO - do not have such a constitutional paragraph for "membership". NGOs in UNESCO are assoicated but are not members. The reason for the ITU to be "innovative" at this time was the privatization of telecommunication in many countries which lead to the disapperance of a lot of PTT ministries. ITU needed (just for survival) the new players (and their money). The aim should be that the ITU in Mexico extend this non-governmental membership status in the ITU to enable WSIS accredited CS entities to participate as non-commercial units without a fee. Why not to test it out and to ask for fee-free sector membership for the IGC under the present regime? Probably the "IGC Drake Committee" (IGC D.C.) could work on a proposal? Wolfgang ________________________________ Fra: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sendt: on 19-11-2008 04:39 Til: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'William Drake'; 'jlfullsack' Cc: 'Fouad Bajwa' Emne: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Bill and Jean-Louis, We have been seeing some degree of concern over the lack of CS engagement with the increasing role that ITU plays in IG and in shaping the future of the Internet. Of course some of us have been expressing this concern for much longer. I remember that when I heard a passionate intervention of Bill's during a CS meeting convened by APC in September on the sidelines of the MAG consultations, it set me thinking even more about how to get IGC to engage with the ITU. Later there were some more emails on the issue of IP trace-backs work being done by the ITU - and I remember one by Fouad - seeking a IGC/ CS stand on the issue. I propose that we shape for more active engagement with ITU, and for this we set up an IGF standing working group on ITU engagement, or whatever. This group can feed into IGC issues of greatest current importance, and those which are soon forthcoming, apart from suggesting a longer horizon engagement, and also perhaps their views on it, and such. Giving some clear shape to our possible engagements with the ITU is also important in view of the forthcoming ITU's "World Telecommunications Policy Forum" early next year, which seems to be poised to get into some very significant issues. The same group could look into issue of structuring CS engagement with the ITU. Wont be bad if we try to propose some such structure on behalf of IGC as an entity, and see their response. I propose that Bill, Jean-Louis and Fouad be the initial members of this group, and whoever else wants to can opt-in. Since among these three, Bill has had the longest engagement with this group, I suggest he convenes the group on IGC's behalf. Others may give their comments. Thanks. Parminder ________________________________ From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:40 AM To: jlfullsack Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi Jean-Louis, Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was emailing or something at the time. But I agree with you that the ITU/CS interface, or rather the lack thereof, urgently needs attention, especially since there is at least nominally a review underway in ITU and it'd be good to be useful to the friendly governments that asked for it. I've raised the matter a number of times on gov list over the years, suggested interested people collaborate, but never managed to stir much interest in this or the ITU more generally. If Toure's rather provocative speech in Cairo has changed the landscape and people are now concerned about what governments, telcos et al are up to in ITU, great. I'd of course be happy to talk to you about this stuff, but I don't think the two of us alone can do anything that would matter to ITU, the only thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. Best, Bill On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: Hi Bill I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. All the best Jean-Louis Fullsack Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des télécommunications' which best reflects my own experience with, and opinion about, the ITU ----- Original Message ----- From: William Drake To: Governance Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi, The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. Best, BD On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. Can we then agree to meet on 2nd - 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit late but there isn't any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other than at IGFs. ________________________________ From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Either date works for me - early evening to allow those who want to take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com ________________________________ From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Ian After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be attending. I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. Parminder ________________________________ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch *********************************************************** ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 08:40:37 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:10:37 +0530 Subject: [governance] Re: Turkey tabled a resolution to strengthen the role of ITU in the IGF? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello, Following a communication from William New, Editor in Chief, Intellectual Property Watch, Geneva, Switzerland, I wish to correct that the report concerning Turkey's resolution at "Circle ID" is a Circle ID summary of an external report, quite in line with Online News Journalism practices. The news "summary" at Circle ID at link http://www.circleid.com/posts/itu_controversy_internet_governance/automatically brings up the original report from ipwatch at page http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/index.php?p=1317 , which is the original article, linked at Circle ID without any reference or claim to the contrary. This is a finer IP issue, I ought to have said that it is a "CircleID summary of an IP watch report" instead of referring to it as a "Circle ID" report, so I have come back to the list to correct the error. I have also written to ipwatch and CircleID to say so. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 11:25 AM, Sivasubramanian Muthusamy < isolatedn at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello All, > > A circle ID report says that ITU had (earlier) tabled a resolution to > strengthen the role of the ITU at the IGF. This report outlines the most > recent developments. > > http://www.circleid.com/posts/itu_controversy_internet_governance/ > > -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ( Link to my article in Circle ID on ITU : Overture to take over Internet > Governance: ITU at the ICANN, Cairo > http://www.circleid.com/posts/20081115_take_over_internet_governace_itu_icann/) > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Wed Nov 19 08:47:55 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:17:55 +0530 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <20081119033942.DA93FA6C1E@smtp2.electricembers.net> References: <0009D035-E0D4-4A7B-98AC-4E54DEF96579@graduateinstitute.ch> <20081119033942.DA93FA6C1E@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: Hello Parminder, On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Parminder wrote: > Bill and Jean-Louis, > > I propose that we shape for more active engagement with ITU, and for this > we set up an IGF standing working group on ITU engagement, or whatever. > > I propose that Bill, Jean-Louis and Fouad be the initial members of this > group, and whoever else wants to can opt-in. Since among these three, Bill > has had the longest engagement with this group, I suggest he convenes the > group on IGC's behalf. Others may give their comments. Thanks. > > Parminder > Hello Parminder, Please include me in this IGF standing working group on ITU to enable me to bring in some 'balancing' view points. Thank you Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch] > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:40 AM > *To:* jlfullsack > *Cc:* governance at lists.cpsr.org > > *Subject:* Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > > > Hi Jean-Louis, > > > > Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was emailing or > something at the time. But I agree with you that the ITU/CS interface, or > rather the lack thereof, urgently needs attention, especially since there is > at least nominally a review underway in ITU and it'd be good to be useful to > the friendly governments that asked for it. I've raised the matter a number > of times on gov list over the years, suggested interested people > collaborate, but never managed to stir much interest in this or the ITU more > generally. If Toure's rather provocative speech in Cairo has changed the > landscape and people are now concerned about what governments, telcos et al > are up to in ITU, great. I'd of course be happy to talk to you about this > stuff, but I don't think the two of us alone can do anything that would > matter to ITU, the only thing that might resonate is a collective > engagement. > > > > Best, > > > > Bill > > > > On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: > > > > Hi Bill > > > > I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : > > During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some concerns > about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness or inclusion. > During the following discussion I expressed my readiness to join you for > looking more closely on different issues regarding CS participation in its > working and other hot issues concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some > recommendations for the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or > general international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for > answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for me to > stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. > > > > All the best > > Jean-Louis Fullsack > > Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an article (in > french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des télécommunications' which best > reflects my own experience with, and opinion about, the ITU > > ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* William Drake > > *To:* Governance > > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM > > *Subject:* Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > > > Hi, > > > > The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the week, but > after GigaNet would be problematic. > > > > Best, > > > > BD > > > > > > On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: > > > > There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. > > Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit late > but there isn't any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other than at IGFs. > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com ] > > *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org > *Subject:* RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Either date works for me – early evening to allow those who want to take a > meal together afterwards would probably suit best. > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > > *Sent:* 09 November 2008 17:26 > *To:* 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org > *Subject:* [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Ian > > After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at IGF > was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of 1st(eve of IGF) or 2 > nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be attending. > > I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should > evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage with > this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review > process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. > > I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. > > Parminder > > > ------------------------------ > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > *********************************************************** > > William J. Drake > > Senior Associate > > Centre for International Governance > > Graduate Institute of International and > > Development Studies > > Geneva, Switzerland > > william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch > > *********************************************************** > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jefsey at jefsey.com Wed Nov 19 08:37:43 2008 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 14:37:43 +0100 Subject: [governance] online submissions for open dialogue sessions In-Reply-To: <20081118123235.2E664E0494@smtp3.electricembers.net> References: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A842650A@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <20081118123235.2E664E0494@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <20081119144605.BD9ABE0786@smtp3.electricembers.net> At 13:32 18/11/2008, Parminder wrote: >Hi All >One main format innovation for the IGF, Hyderabad, is 3 hours open >dialogue session in the afternoon for each day's key theme. > >Questions can be submitted online before hand for these sessions to >igf[at]unog.chThis e-mail address is being >protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it . >See http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/ >for the announcement which read > >"Please submit any questions you would like to be addressed in >Hyderabad to igf[at]unog.chThis e-mail address >is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to >view it . They should relate to the broad themes listed on the >programme >of the main sessions." Warning. This format was experimented during EuroDIG in Strasbourg. I carried a analysis in French of the way the format works (speakers stay at their place and are given the floor by the Chair. They can be from the list or reacting from the audience). The experience shown that more than two minutes speach sounds long (the TV camera tries to spot you in the audience, but you do not really control the room, your time, and people do not hesitate to talk together while you speak). If there are two many people listed their management takes a very long time, so do interuptors. So, you are better to agree with your moderator to speak among the first ones. This is possible because the best way to organise the "show" is to gather the speakers by thematic groups prepared in advance. Also, Strasbourg seems to have shown that once people have understood they are to be short, they really become short and the meeting turns like being a class room. With the moderator trying to find people interested in speaking up. Then anyone can rise an hand and be long as no one has prepared anything else. This is certainly a very interesting format. But I think people should be prepared to it. Other Strasbourg attendants could may be comment this? jfc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From anriette at apc.org Wed Nov 19 10:53:32 2008 From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:53:32 +0200 Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions In-Reply-To: <0A52272BA60647A2BED21369FC535D40@IAN> References: <0A52272BA60647A2BED21369FC535D40@IAN> Message-ID: <1227110012.6199.17.camel@anriette-laptop> Thanks for the suggestion, Ian. But having spoken at the opening in Rio I think it would not be appropriate for for me to do so again this year. Besides.. as some of you know, I really hate public speaking. Would much rather have an argument over dinner. APC will submit suggestions to Jeanette by Sunday. Anriette On Tue, 2008-11-18 at 21:18 +1100, Ian Peter wrote: > I think its important we respond to this as a group, and I also think its > important that the names we put forward are people we know will do a good > job. Jeanette, would you be willing to join the co-ordinators in a small > committee to vet names put forward on this list? And if anyone else would > like to join this small group to co-ordinate a list of names to go forward > could you drop me or Parminder a line? > > If that's acceptable, we can ask people to nominate names for consideration > here. I would like to begin that process by putting forward for > consideration Anriette Esterhuysen. > > > > Ian Peter > PO Box 429 > Bangalow NSW 2479 > Australia > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jeanette Hofmann [mailto:jeanette at wzb.eu] > > Sent: 18 November 2008 19:40 > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > > > > Hello, > > > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for > > Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. The > > bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to the > > secretariat. > > > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to have > > some flexibility for regional balancing. > > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing in > > civil society. > > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > > particularly welcome! > > > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are both > > from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but in > > terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and > > Latin America may be more successful. > > > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > > course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > > secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest > > that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put > > together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and other > > groups. > > > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? > > > > Jeanette > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > > 11/15/2008 9:32 AM > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ anriette esterhuysen - executive director association for progressive communications p o box 29755 melville - south africa 2109 anriette at apc.org - tel/fax + 27 11 726 1692 http://www.apc.org ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 18 19:46:06 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 16:46:06 -0800 Subject: [governance] Turkey tabled a resolution to strengthen the role ofITU References: Message-ID: <492361CD.EF0A33FE@ix.netcom.com> Siva and all, I was not aware that there was a official request for the ITU to have a stronger role within the IGF. However even though I would disagree with such, I don't believe that as a nation, Turkey would or should have the ability or right to table such a limiting without some sort of confirmable means that can be documented, that the majority of Turkish citizens were in agreement of same. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy wrote: > Hello All, > > A circle ID report says that ITU had (earlier) tabled a resolution to > strengthen the role of the ITU at the IGF. This report outlines the > most recent developments. > > http://www.circleid.com/posts/itu_controversy_internet_governance/ > > -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > ( Link to my article in Circle ID on ITU : Overture to take over > Internet Governance: ITU at the ICANN, Cairo > http://www.circleid.com/posts/20081115_take_over_internet_governace_itu_icann/ > ) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Wed Nov 19 21:05:09 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:05:09 +0900 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <49238a7f.02578c0a.49f6.6126SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> References: <49238a7f.02578c0a.49f6.6126SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <00B128FA-0FF1-4813-9BD0-0F397D158623@graduateinstitute.ch> Hi, Thanks Parminder for the suggestion. It's not obvious to me whether it would be better to start with a small wg (which might be efficient but also could continue the local ghettoization of the issues) or try booting up some caucus-wide engagement (which would rapidly become needed anyway---the WTPF is in the Spring, will have strong governmental engagement, and hence ought to be of at least as much of a priority as an IGF conference). It would also be good to check in with friendly staff and Members to get a clearer sense of where the ITU's review process is and how best to interface with it. My suggestion would be that we put this high on the agenda of the caucus meeting in Hyderabad and think through our approach there. In the meanwhile I'll be back in Geneva next week and will see if I can fill in the background a bit more. Best, Bill On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Parminder wrote: > Bill and Jean-Louis, > > We have been seeing some degree of concern over the lack of CS > engagement with the increasing role that ITU plays in IG and in > shaping the future of the Internet. Of course some of us have been > expressing this concern for much longer. > > I remember that when I heard a passionate intervention of Bill’s > during a CS meeting convened by APC in September on the sidelines > of the MAG consultations, it set me thinking even more about how to > get IGC to engage with the ITU. > > Later there were some more emails on the issue of IP trace-backs > work being done by the ITU – and I remember one by Fouad – seeking > a IGC/ CS stand on the issue. > > I propose that we shape for more active engagement with ITU, and > for this we set up an IGF standing working group on ITU engagement, > or whatever. This group can feed into IGC issues of greatest > current importance, and those which are soon forthcoming, apart > from suggesting a longer horizon engagement, and also perhaps their > views on it, and such. Giving some clear shape to our possible > engagements with the ITU is also important in view of the > forthcoming ITU’s “World Telecommunications Policy Forum” early > next year, which seems to be poised to get into some very > significant issues. The same group could look into issue of > structuring CS engagement with the ITU. Wont be bad if we try to > propose some such structure on behalf of IGC as an entity, and see > their response. > > I propose that Bill, Jean-Louis and Fouad be the initial members of > this group, and whoever else wants to can opt-in. Since among these > three, Bill has had the longest engagement with this group, I > suggest he convenes the group on IGC’s behalf. Others may give > their comments. Thanks. > > Parminder > > > > From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch] > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:40 AM > To: jlfullsack > Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Hi Jean-Louis, > > Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was > emailing or something at the time. But I agree with you that the > ITU/CS interface, or rather the lack thereof, urgently needs > attention, especially since there is at least nominally a review > underway in ITU and it'd be good to be useful to the friendly > governments that asked for it. I've raised the matter a number of > times on gov list over the years, suggested interested people > collaborate, but never managed to stir much interest in this or the > ITU more generally. If Toure's rather provocative speech in Cairo > has changed the landscape and people are now concerned about what > governments, telcos et al are up to in ITU, great. I'd of course > be happy to talk to you about this stuff, but I don't think the two > of us alone can do anything that would matter to ITU, the only > thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. > > Best, > > Bill > > On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: > > > Hi Bill > > I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : > During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some > concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness > or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my > readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues > regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues > concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for > the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general > international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for > answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for > me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. > > All the best > Jean-Louis Fullsack > Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an > article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des > télécommunications' which best reflects my own experience with, and > opinion about, the ITU > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Drake > To: Governance > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM > Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Hi, > > The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the > week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. > > Best, > > BD > > > On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: > > > There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. > Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit > late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other > than at IGFs. > From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > Either date works for me – early evening to allow those who want to > take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 > To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > Ian > After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting > at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the > evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all > those who will be attending. > I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF > should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to > engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the > IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, > onwards. > I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. > Parminder > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > *********************************************************** > William J. Drake > Senior Associate > Centre for International Governance > Graduate Institute of International and > Development Studies > Geneva, Switzerland > william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch > *********************************************************** > *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch *********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 18 23:45:25 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:45:25 -0800 Subject: SV: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad References: <20081119033942.DA93FA6C1E@smtp2.electricembers.net> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426514@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <492399E5.8745B76D@ix.netcom.com> Wolfgang, Bill, other IGC participants, and Transition team (auto-fwd'ed), I have to wonder why the ITU doesn't have a completely open membership, especially in the light of the new attitude that president Elect Obama has called for, for a much more open and transparent international relationship with all entities, individuals, and stakeholders? Is there something that the ITU is concerned about in that direction? Those of us with good and noble intentions, of good shared interests and conscience hopefully will be calling for such. Can we do this? YES WE CAN! >:) So Wolfgang, Bill, Ian, Janaette and Parminder will you take the pledge? Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > Parminder > > this is a good step which we have to take and I can aonly support your proposal. Bill who has raised this issue again and again is the right man at the right place to get a mandate from ther IGC and I will be ready to join the small "Drake Committee". Toure said in Cairo that the door is open for CS. Lets try to get it. > > During WSIS (before Antalya) I had various disucssions with Richard Hill and Robert Shaw who already at this time tried to help to open the door for CS to ITU. Their proposal was to have a broad interpretation of "sector members" but one big barrier was the high fee which sector members have to pay. Antalya was one step in the right direction. The weakness of the process so far is, that the ITU Working Group which was established to explore the possibilities of CS involvement in ITU is open only for member states. CS has no voice (and certainly no vote) in this process. There are some reports of this WG to the ITU Council but a new decision can be made only by the next ITU Plenipotentiary Conference scheduled for Mexico in 2010. So far the only way CS can become engaged is via sector membership. > > Toure said in Cairo that they now have abolished the fee for CS organizations which can proof that they are really non-commercial. But he said also that a CS application needs the surpport of the the relevant government of the member state where the CS is at home. Certainly this "governmental screening" does not work. Imagine if a CS organisation critizising its govenrment at home for stupid telecom policy has to go to the minister and ask for a signed letter of support for ITU sector membership? This is nonsense. Even more, what about international / global CS units which operate as networks? Like the IGC? Which is the relevant administration? Is it the Indian govenrment because Parminder as the chair has Indian citizenship? > > I am following the debate since 1994 when the ITU Plenipotentiary Conference in Kyodo opened as first intergovernmental UN organisation its door to non-govenrmental units by establishing - into the constitution - a new membership category (with limited rights) which was called "sector membership". This was really an innovation in international law. Other organisations working closely with NGOs - like UNESCO - do not have such a constitutional paragraph for "membership". NGOs in UNESCO are assoicated but are not members. The reason for the ITU to be "innovative" at this time was the privatization of telecommunication in many countries which lead to the disapperance of a lot of PTT ministries. ITU needed (just for survival) the new players (and their money). > > The aim should be that the ITU in Mexico extend this non-governmental membership status in the ITU to enable WSIS accredited CS entities to participate as non-commercial units without a fee. > > Why not to test it out and to ask for fee-free sector membership for the IGC under the present regime? Probably the "IGC Drake Committee" (IGC D.C.) could work on a proposal? > > Wolfgang > > ________________________________ > > Fra: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > Sendt: on 19-11-2008 04:39 > Til: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'William Drake'; 'jlfullsack' > Cc: 'Fouad Bajwa' > Emne: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Bill and Jean-Louis, > > > > We have been seeing some degree of concern over the lack of CS engagement with the increasing role that ITU plays in IG and in shaping the future of the Internet. Of course some of us have been expressing this concern for much longer. > > > > I remember that when I heard a passionate intervention of Bill's during a CS meeting convened by APC in September on the sidelines of the MAG consultations, it set me thinking even more about how to get IGC to engage with the ITU. > > > > Later there were some more emails on the issue of IP trace-backs work being done by the ITU - and I remember one by Fouad - seeking a IGC/ CS stand on the issue. > > > > I propose that we shape for more active engagement with ITU, and for this we set up an IGF standing working group on ITU engagement, or whatever. This group can feed into IGC issues of greatest current importance, and those which are soon forthcoming, apart from suggesting a longer horizon engagement, and also perhaps their views on it, and such. Giving some clear shape to our possible engagements with the ITU is also important in view of the forthcoming ITU's "World Telecommunications Policy Forum" early next year, which seems to be poised to get into some very significant issues. The same group could look into issue of structuring CS engagement with the ITU. Wont be bad if we try to propose some such structure on behalf of IGC as an entity, and see their response. > > > > I propose that Bill, Jean-Louis and Fouad be the initial members of this group, and whoever else wants to can opt-in. Since among these three, Bill has had the longest engagement with this group, I suggest he convenes the group on IGC's behalf. Others may give their comments. Thanks. > > > > Parminder > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch] > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:40 AM > To: jlfullsack > Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > > > Hi Jean-Louis, > > > > Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was emailing or something at the time. But I agree with you that the ITU/CS interface, or rather the lack thereof, urgently needs attention, especially since there is at least nominally a review underway in ITU and it'd be good to be useful to the friendly governments that asked for it. I've raised the matter a number of times on gov list over the years, suggested interested people collaborate, but never managed to stir much interest in this or the ITU more generally. If Toure's rather provocative speech in Cairo has changed the landscape and people are now concerned about what governments, telcos et al are up to in ITU, great. I'd of course be happy to talk to you about this stuff, but I don't think the two of us alone can do anything that would matter to ITU, the only thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. > > > > Best, > > > > Bill > > > > On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: > > Hi Bill > > > > I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : > > During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. > > > > All the best > > Jean-Louis Fullsack > > Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des télécommunications' which best reflects my own experience with, and opinion about, the ITU > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: William Drake > > To: Governance > > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM > > Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > > > Hi, > > > > The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. > > > > Best, > > > > BD > > > > > > On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: > > > > > > There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. > > Can we then agree to meet on 2nd - 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit late but there isn't any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other than at IGFs. > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Either date works for me - early evening to allow those who want to take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 > To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Ian > > After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be attending. > > I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. > > I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. > > Parminder > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > *********************************************************** > > William J. Drake > > Senior Associate > > Centre for International Governance > > Graduate Institute of International and > > Development Studies > > Geneva, Switzerland > > william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch > > *********************************************************** > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 18 23:52:40 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:52:40 -0800 Subject: [governance] [Fwd: Re: [At-Large] Fwd: [ga] Reminder: Submit comments to "The Role ofIndividual Internet Usersin the GNSO"] Message-ID: <49239B98.407F8003@ix.netcom.com> All, Thanks to Adam, I am forwarding this to you. See especially attached document. And well done Adam. I will have further comments for the NCUC regarding some parts of this proposal from our members as I receive them. But from my reading it's a very good start. Lets hope that the ITU will take note consider this proposal and a model for revamping of the ITU as well. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [At-Large] Fwd: [ga] Reminder: Submit comments to "The Role of Individual Internet Usersin the GNSO" Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:26:01 +0900 From: Adam Peake Reply-To: At-Large Worldwide To: At-Large Worldwide References: <93146ac1939a4fc811f3df1b9fe29ec1 at localhost><492190AB.8020102 at telly.org> NCUC is discussing a new draft of the Noncommercial Stakeholders Group petition, please see attached. Draft has been well received. One amendment will be to the citizen requirement, people will likely be asked to choose either by national citizenship or residence when identification by geographic region is necessary. Adam >On Nov 17, 2008, at 10:41 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > >>The IPC (for which I have no great fondness) concentrates >>on trademark and naming issues which are directly relevant. > >Yes - as a individual content producer, I have similar interest in >these issues. The fact that my content has little commercial value >(blogs and photos, etc.) shouldn't disqualify my participation. > >I agree that issues related to the content itself (i.e. blogs, >photos and movies) usually don't fall within ICANN's mandate, nor am >I arguing that it should. I'm simply asking that all content (i.e. >blogs, photos and movies) producers should have a seat at the table, >not just providers of commercially oriented content. > >Sorry for being less than clear in my earlier note. > >/ross > > >_______________________________________________ >At-Large mailing list >At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org >http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann.org > >At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: DRAFT-NCSG-Petition-v3.doc Type: application/msword Size: 109568 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ At-Large mailing list At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann.org At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org From jeanette at wzb.eu Thu Nov 20 06:23:47 2008 From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:23:47 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing Message-ID: <492548C3.4030506@wzb.eu> Hi Ian, hi all, here are two further candidates from Africa. jeanette -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:38:43 +0300 From: alice Organization: Association for Progressive Communications (APC) To: jeanette at wzb.eu CC: eve kictanet , Brian Longwe , brian at kictanet.or.ke Dear Jeanette, Greetings from Nairobi and hope this message finds you well. I am writing in response to your message below. We have just completed the East African Internet Governance Forum (www.eaigf.or.ke), which took place in Nairobi Kenya and prior to that we had national IGFs in Kenya Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda that feed to the regional IGF, and we are hoping will feed to the global process next month in India. This process was being coordinated by the Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) a multi stakeholder Network based in Nairobi. I would therefore like to propose, the chair of the network, Brian Longwe and/or myself. Let me know if you need additional information and looking forward to hearing from you warm regards Alice Munyua > From: Jeanette Hofmann > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > > Hello, > > the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill for > Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing session. > The bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of names to > the secretariat. > > The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to > have some flexibility for regional balancing. > Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing > in civil society. > Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > particularly welcome! > > I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are > both from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India but > in terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from Africa and > Latin America may be more successful. > > Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest > that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put > together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and > other groups. > > The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage this? > > Jeanette > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jefsey at jefsey.com Thu Nov 20 08:02:54 2008 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:02:54 +0100 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad In-Reply-To: <0009D035-E0D4-4A7B-98AC-4E54DEF96579@graduateinstitute.ch> References: <20081109070901.12C69A6C1F@smtp2.electricembers.net> <1CF7BB93-4735-4A6D-A4DC-76EDA81D2294@graduateinstitute.ch> <0309602A4DC44FD1AA232522F0FDEA12@PCbureau> <0009D035-E0D4-4A7B-98AC-4E54DEF96579@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: <20081120130257.22BEBA6C14@smtp2.electricembers.net> At 02:10 19/11/2008, William Drake wrote: >the only thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. The only real thing would be a better network architecture supported by the CS which represents a substantal market share. jfc -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From yehudakatz at mailinator.com Thu Nov 20 13:36:40 2008 From: yehudakatz at mailinator.com (Yehuda Katz) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:36:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [governance] Better network architecture supported by the CS Message-ID: Jefsey, Through the years you have suggested the: Semantic Web, Linguistic Web, Semantic Processing, ... etc., What is your current opinion in regards to a "Semantic Web" with "a better network architecture" as the Internet/Icann/Iana... moves closer toward IDN top-level domain names ? Ref: http://idn.icann.org/#The_example.test_names Could you explain, How a "better network architecture supported by the CS" would be? (What would that be ?) -- From: JFC Morfin To: Cc: Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:02:54 +0100 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At 02:10 19/11/2008, William Drake wrote: the only thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. The only real thing would be a better network architecture supported by the CS which represents a substantal market share. jfc --- End ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr Thu Nov 20 17:45:47 2008 From: jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr (jlfullsack) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:45:47 +0100 Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad References: <49238a7f.02578c0a.49f6.6126SMTPIN_ADDED@mx.google.com> <00B128FA-0FF1-4813-9BD0-0F397D158623@graduateinstitute.ch> Message-ID: Dear all Let me express my divine surprise after having read all these messages on the ITU and its long overdue reform. Moreover, I hear from these messages that for some of the mailers this interest goes back to the WSIS. And what’s more some of our prominent fellows even were in discussion with some ITU high ranking staff upon the matter ! So, why am I not that enthusiastic about this new approach of CS on this old issue ? Simply because when I expressed my concerns about ITU, both on its neoliberal drifts and on its CS exclusion policy, in our plenaries at the very beginning of WSIS, either I was told that this is’nt on the agenda, or my opinion and concerns were simply ignored. So I presented all the statements on the ITU urgent need of reform (note : reform and not a cosmetic revamping!) during the different meetings –including intergouvernemental ones and plenaries- on behalf of my organisation and with the support of some working groups (financing, African diaspora, etc…). You can still read all these statements on our website www.csdptt.org, in French of course, but a few are also in English. This being said, I try to believe in this new interest on the ITU by the CS community and, first of all, I’d thank Parminder for having included me in the “initial group”: at least it will respect a minimum of “cultural/language diversity” (one of our hypes at WSIS and still very topical). However, for me the question isn’t only to be “inside” but “for what to say/to do”? As I mentioned above, there are –besides CS inclusion- a lot of issues at the ITU, and some are very serious. They encompass policy, finance, strategy, but also new matters to be dealt with such as ICT/Tlc equipment design taking in account power consumption, renewable energy sources for feeding equipment, network nodes and terminals or premises, a holistic approach in network architecture design, cross-sectoral synergy and fertilisation, etc ... It also should be mentioned here that Europe (both the Council of Europe and the European Union) intend to set up a “European FGI” and are willing to address issues such as ITU governance and the achievements obtained (if there are …) and to be obtained in the different Action lines. This was discussed during the EuroDig meeting at Strasbourg a month ago, and both Bill and myself agreed to push in this direction. Needless to say that my priorities are here. Nevertheless, this doesn’t exclude my participation to the WG Parminder suggested.. Finally I’d (perhaps) surprise all of you if I tell you that I found Toure’s speech not bad at all ! Perhaps should it be completed by some additional remarks on the responsibilities of the ITU, i.a. in the so-called telecom development, and recall the ITU top officials that the Maitland Report was published in1984. Twenty four years later we are still waiting on the “missing link” for bridging the “digital divide” … And not to be forgotten : ten years after an aggressive neoliberal policy, mostly driven by the ITU, well seconded by the WB! Sorry for my long message and thanks for your interest for having a better and more open ITU, for the sake of DCs particularly. Best regards Jean-Louis Fullsack ----- Original Message ----- From: William Drake To: Parminder Cc: Governance ; jlfullsack ; Fouad Bajwa Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:05 AM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi, Thanks Parminder for the suggestion. It's not obvious to me whether it would be better to start with a small wg (which might be efficient but also could continue the local ghettoization of the issues) or try booting up some caucus-wide engagement (which would rapidly become needed anyway---the WTPF is in the Spring, will have strong governmental engagement, and hence ought to be of at least as much of a priority as an IGF conference). It would also be good to check in with friendly staff and Members to get a clearer sense of where the ITU's review process is and how best to interface with it. My suggestion would be that we put this high on the agenda of the caucus meeting in Hyderabad and think through our approach there. In the meanwhile I'll be back in Geneva next week and will see if I can fill in the background a bit more. Best, Bill On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Parminder wrote: Bill and Jean-Louis, We have been seeing some degree of concern over the lack of CS engagement with the increasing role that ITU plays in IG and in shaping the future of the Internet. Of course some of us have been expressing this concern for much longer. I remember that when I heard a passionate intervention of Bill’s during a CS meeting convened by APC in September on the sidelines of the MAG consultations, it set me thinking even more about how to get IGC to engage with the ITU. Later there were some more emails on the issue of IP trace-backs work being done by the ITU – and I remember one by Fouad – seeking a IGC/ CS stand on the issue. I propose that we shape for more active engagement with ITU, and for this we set up an IGF standing working group on ITU engagement, or whatever. This group can feed into IGC issues of greatest current importance, and those which are soon forthcoming, apart from suggesting a longer horizon engagement, and also perhaps their views on it, and such. Giving some clear shape to our possible engagements with the ITU is also important in view of the forthcoming ITU’s “World Telecommunications Policy Forum” early next year, which seems to be poised to get into some very significant issues. The same group could look into issue of structuring CS engagement with the ITU. Wont be bad if we try to propose some such structure on behalf of IGC as an entity, and see their response. I propose that Bill, Jean-Louis and Fouad be the initial members of this group, and whoever else wants to can opt-in. Since among these three, Bill has had the longest engagement with this group, I suggest he convenes the group on IGC’s behalf. Others may give their comments. Thanks. Parminder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:40 AM To: jlfullsack Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi Jean-Louis, Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was emailing or something at the time. But I agree with you that the ITU/CS interface, or rather the lack thereof, urgently needs attention, especially since there is at least nominally a review underway in ITU and it'd be good to be useful to the friendly governments that asked for it. I've raised the matter a number of times on gov list over the years, suggested interested people collaborate, but never managed to stir much interest in this or the ITU more generally. If Toure's rather provocative speech in Cairo has changed the landscape and people are now concerned about what governments, telcos et al are up to in ITU, great. I'd of course be happy to talk to you about this stuff, but I don't think the two of us alone can do anything that would matter to ITU, the only thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. Best, Bill On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: Hi Bill I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. All the best Jean-Louis Fullsack Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des télécommunications' which best reflects my own experience with, and opinion about, the ITU ----- Original Message ----- From: William Drake To: Governance Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi, The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. Best, BD On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other than at IGFs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 12:03 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: RE: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Either date works for me – early evening to allow those who want to take a meal together afterwards would probably suit best. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: 09 November 2008 17:26 To: 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Ian After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does the evening of 1st (eve of IGF) or 2nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound to all those who will be attending. I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, onwards. I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. Parminder -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch *********************************************************** *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch *********************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jefsey at jefsey.com Thu Nov 20 17:51:21 2008 From: jefsey at jefsey.com (JFC Morfin) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:51:21 +0100 Subject: [governance] Better network architecture supported by the CS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081120225646.0810AA6C23@smtp2.electricembers.net> At 19:36 20/11/2008, Yehuda Katz wrote: >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Jefsey, >Through the years you have suggested the: Semantic Web, Linguistic >Web, Semantic Processing, ... etc., I do not think I ever advocated anything about the Web application per se. W3C is not my territory. I am interested in the Multilingual and Semantic Internet, the Intersem. (the internet of thoughts). Also in what to add to the Legacy architecture to support the Semantic stratta. i.e. the metacoms over the Internet datacoms over the ITU telecoms. This is what I name the "Internet Plus", from the architecture possibilities I observe as today possible. If everyting we try to do (IPv6, IDNS, routing, security, spam, etc.) does not really makes it, it is probaby because we do not have much to change in the technology itself (at least for now), but probably a lot to change in the way we think (of) it. >What is your current opinion in regards to a "Semantic Web" with "a better >network architecture" as the Internet/Icann/Iana... moves closer toward IDN >top-level domain names ? The current work by Google (Unicode, IETF, ICANN) concerns "internationalization", i.e. the support of languages through ASCII International English and Google OS. This has quite nothing to do with "multilingualization", i.e. the support of each language/script as English/ASCII is today supported plus multilinguistic support of the diversity by itself. This is where we agreed with Vint to split/coopete between their IDNA and an @large ML-DNS (Multi-many lateralities - DNS). >Ref: >http://idn.icann.org/#The_example.test_names Crap. It cannot work. This has been documented by IAB, IETF/WG-IDNABIS tries to correct some of the flaws. The architectural approach is not end to end, so this necessarily conflicts in some places. >Could you explain, How a "better network architecture supported by the CS" >would be? (What would that be ?) I am overloaded at the time being with setting up how to work on this. Please give me another week. I try to have something in place before the load of the IGF period. The target is that all this can be listed, explored, discussed, documented, tested asap. For example, how do you want to support the Virtual Root we have today and deploy IPv6 without IDv6. We falled in a misgovernance trap making us believe that "Civil Society" was about "Civil Rights" only and not before about Civil Defense and mutual care. jfc ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 19 22:32:38 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:32:38 -0800 Subject: [governance] Better network architecture supported by the CS References: <20081120225646.0810AA6C23@smtp2.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <4924DA56.29A92D42@ix.netcom.com> JFC and all, I think you fail to recognize that "Civil Rights" is inclusive of Civil defense and especially mutual care. You can't have the former without the latter two inclusive. Perhaps your education in this area is lacking... JFC Morfin wrote: > At 19:36 20/11/2008, Yehuda Katz wrote: > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Jefsey, > >Through the years you have suggested the: Semantic Web, Linguistic > >Web, Semantic Processing, ... etc., > > I do not think I ever advocated anything about the Web application > per se. W3C is not my territory. > > I am interested in the Multilingual and Semantic Internet, the > Intersem. (the internet of thoughts). Also in what to add to the > Legacy architecture to support the Semantic stratta. i.e. the > metacoms over the Internet datacoms over the ITU telecoms. This is > what I name the "Internet Plus", from the architecture possibilities > I observe as today possible. > > If everyting we try to do (IPv6, IDNS, routing, security, spam, etc.) > does not really makes it, it is probaby because we do not have much > to change in the technology itself (at least for now), but probably a > lot to change in the way we think (of) it. > > >What is your current opinion in regards to a "Semantic Web" with "a better > >network architecture" as the Internet/Icann/Iana... moves closer toward IDN > >top-level domain names ? > > The current work by Google (Unicode, IETF, ICANN) concerns > "internationalization", i.e. the support of languages through ASCII > International English and Google OS. This has quite nothing to do > with "multilingualization", i.e. the support of each language/script > as English/ASCII is today supported plus multilinguistic support of > the diversity by itself. > > This is where we agreed with Vint to split/coopete between their IDNA > and an @large ML-DNS (Multi-many lateralities - DNS). > > >Ref: > >http://idn.icann.org/#The_example.test_names > > Crap. It cannot work. This has been documented by IAB, > IETF/WG-IDNABIS tries to correct some of the flaws. The architectural > approach is not end to end, so this necessarily conflicts in some places. > > >Could you explain, How a "better network architecture supported by the CS" > >would be? (What would that be ?) > > I am overloaded at the time being with setting up how to work on > this. Please give me another week. I try to have something in place > before the load of the IGF period. The target is that all this can be > listed, explored, discussed, documented, tested asap. For example, > how do you want to support the Virtual Root we have today and deploy > IPv6 without IDv6. > > We falled in a misgovernance trap making us believe that "Civil > Society" was about "Civil Rights" only and not before about Civil > Defense and mutual care. > > jfc > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 19 22:35:10 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:35:10 -0800 Subject: [governance] New TN Law Forces Universities To Patrol For Copyright Violations Message-ID: <4924DAEE.98AEDACE@ix.netcom.com> All, It seems that in Tennesee the state officials have decided to mount up their black copywright motorcycles and helecopters. It seems that there will need to be yet another legal challange in federal court regarding this law, and likely several challanges to get this error in state officials judgment. Seems to me that such a law may run up against the Cyberbulling statutes? Fully a Civil Rights issue. See: CSMatt points with this excerpt from the EFF's page: "Last week, the RIAA celebrated the signing of a ridiculous new law in Tennessee that says: 'Each public and private institution of higher education in the state that has student residential computer networks shall: [...] [R]easonably attempt to prevent the infringement of copyrighted works over the institution's computer and network resources, if such institution receives fifty (50) or more legally valid notices of infringement as prescribed by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 within the preceding year.' While the entertainment industry failed to get 'hard' requirements for universities in the Higher Education Act passed by Congress earlier this year, http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/11/riaa-wins-campuses-lose-tennessee-governor-signs-c the RIAA succeeded in Tennessee (and is pushing in other states) with this provision that gives Big Content the ability to hold universities hostage through the use of infringement notices. Moreover, the new rules will cost Tennessee a pretty penny in the cost review attached to the Tennessee bill, the state's Fiscal Review Committee estimates that the new obligations will initially cost the state a whopping $9.5 million for software, hardware, and personnel, with recurring annual costs of more than $1.5 million for personnel and maintenance." Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From klohento at panos-ao.org Fri Nov 21 05:38:23 2008 From: klohento at panos-ao.org (Ken Lohento) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 10:38:23 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing In-Reply-To: <492548C3.4030506@wzb.eu> References: <492548C3.4030506@wzb.eu> Message-ID: <49268F9F.2050008@panos-ao.org> Dear Ian, Jeanette, all I support Brian and/or Alice. KL Jeanette Hofmann a écrit : > Hi Ian, hi all, > here are two further candidates from Africa. > jeanette > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing > sessions > Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:38:43 +0300 > From: alice > Organization: Association for Progressive Communications (APC) > To: jeanette at wzb.eu > CC: eve kictanet , Brian Longwe > , brian at kictanet.or.ke > > Dear Jeanette, > > Greetings from Nairobi and hope this message finds you well. > > I am writing in response to your message below. > > We have just completed the East African Internet Governance Forum > (www.eaigf.or.ke), which took place in Nairobi Kenya and prior to that > we had national IGFs in Kenya Uganda, Tanzania, Rwanda that feed to the > regional IGF, and we are hoping will feed to the global process next > month in India. This process was being coordinated by the Kenya ICT > Action Network (KICTANet) a multi stakeholder Network based in Nairobi. > > I would therefore like to propose, the chair of the network, Brian > Longwe and/or myself. > > > Let me know if you need additional information and looking forward to > hearing from you > > warm regards > > Alice Munyua > > >> From: Jeanette Hofmann >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >> Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions >> >> Hello, >> >> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill >> for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing >> session. The bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of >> names to the secretariat. >> >> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to >> have some flexibility for regional balancing. >> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing >> in civil society. >> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are >> particularly welcome! >> >> I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are >> both from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India >> but in terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from >> Africa and Latin America may be more successful. >> >> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of >> course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the >> secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest >> that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put >> together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and >> other groups. >> >> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage >> this? >> >> Jeanette >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1789 - Release Date: 14/11/2008 19:32 > > -- Ken Lohento Uses and Policies of Digital Technology (ICT) Programme Panos Institute West Africa 6 rue Calmette Dakar Sénégal +221 33 849 16 66 www.panos-ao.org www.cipaco.org www.euroafrica-ict.org http://www.haayo.org ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Fri Nov 21 13:36:38 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:36:38 +1100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing In-Reply-To: <49268F9F.2050008@panos-ao.org> Message-ID: We have to close this off midnight Saturday, so please make sure any additional names are put forward as soon as possible for speakers for opening and closing ceremony. Including names nominated off list, my understanding of the complete list of names put forward for consideration by the sub-committee to date(please correct me if I have left anyone out) is Alice Munyua Brian Longwe Sean Siochru Al Alegre Ken Lohento Michael Gurstein Bill Drake Ian Peter Carlos Afonso Wolfgang Kleinwachter Meryem Marzouki Valeria Betancourt Graciela Selaimen Anita Gurumurthy Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > > > >> From: Jeanette Hofmann > >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing sessions > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill > >> for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing > >> session. The bad news is that we have only one week to send a list of > >> names to the secretariat. > >> > >> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to > >> have some flexibility for regional balancing. > >> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing > >> in civil society. > >> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > >> particularly welcome! > >> > >> I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are > >> both from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India > >> but in terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from > >> Africa and Latin America may be more successful. > >> > >> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. And, of > >> course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > >> secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would suggest > >> that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims to put > >> together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and > >> other groups. > >> > >> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage > >> this? > >> > >> Jeanette > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >> > >> For all list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1789 - Release Date: > 14/11/2008 19:32 > > > > > > > -- > Ken Lohento > Uses and Policies of Digital Technology (ICT) Programme > Panos Institute West Africa > 6 rue Calmette Dakar Sénégal > +221 33 849 16 66 > www.panos-ao.org > www.cipaco.org > www.euroafrica-ict.org > http://www.haayo.org > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 11/15/2008 9:32 AM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From marzouki at ras.eu.org Fri Nov 21 15:13:58 2008 From: marzouki at ras.eu.org (Meryem Marzouki) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:13:58 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, I don't know who nominated me (thanks anyway), but, if I had been asked first, I would have declined. Sorry for increasing gender unbalance, but please don't consider my name:) Since I'm writing on this topic, let me add that I (and certainly many others) wouldn't understand if selected CS speakers don't include at least one Indian speaker. Moreover, I strongly support Anita Gurumurthy be selected, not simply because she is Indian or because she is a 'she', but because of IT for Change (her organization) constant commitment to and advancing of CS (or what should always be affirmed as CS) values. For the same reason, I would also like to add to the list of nominated persons two other ITfC representatives active in this caucus: Parminder Jeet Singh and Guru (Gurumurthy Kasinathan). Best, Meryem Le 21 nov. 08 à 19:36, Ian Peter a écrit : > We have to close this off midnight Saturday, so please make sure any > additional names are put forward as soon as possible for speakers for > opening and closing ceremony. > > Including names nominated off list, my understanding of the > complete list of > names put forward for consideration by the sub-committee to date > (please > correct me if I have left anyone out) is > > > Alice Munyua > Brian Longwe > Sean Siochru > Al Alegre > Ken Lohento > Michael Gurstein > Bill Drake > Ian Peter > Carlos Afonso > Wolfgang Kleinwachter > Meryem Marzouki > Valeria Betancourt > Graciela Selaimen > Anita Gurumurthy > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > Ian Peter > PO Box 429 > Bangalow NSW 2479 > Australia > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > www.ianpeter.com > > >>> >>>> From: Jeanette Hofmann >>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org >>>> Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing >>>> sessions >>>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill >>>> for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing >>>> session. The bad news is that we have only one week to send a >>>> list of >>>> names to the secretariat. >>>> >>>> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to >>>> have some flexibility for regional balancing. >>>> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with >>>> standing >>>> in civil society. >>>> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are >>>> particularly welcome! >>>> >>>> I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are >>>> both from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India >>>> but in terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from >>>> Africa and Latin America may be more successful. >>>> >>>> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. >>>> And, of >>>> course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the >>>> secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would >>>> suggest >>>> that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims >>>> to put >>>> together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and >>>> other groups. >>>> >>>> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage >>>> this? >>>> >>>> Jeanette >>>> ____________________________________________________________ >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>>> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >>>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >>>> >>>> For all list information and functions, see: >>>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >>> >>> For all list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> >>> >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1789 - Release Date: >> 14/11/2008 19:32 >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Ken Lohento >> Uses and Policies of Digital Technology (ICT) Programme >> Panos Institute West Africa >> 6 rue Calmette Dakar Sénégal >> +221 33 849 16 66 >> www.panos-ao.org >> www.cipaco.org >> www.euroafrica-ict.org >> http://www.haayo.org >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: >> 11/15/2008 9:32 AM > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 21 03:01:18 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:01:18 -0800 Subject: [governance] US Officials Flunk Test On Civic Knowledge Message-ID: <49266ACE.E453BEDB@ix.netcom.com> All, In respect to the pursuit of an Internet Bill of Rights, the following should be kept in mind: A test on civic knowledge given to elected officials proved that http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20081120/tod-us-officials-flunk-test-of-amerian-h-f62056d.html they are slightly less knowledgeable than the uninformed people who voted them into office. Elected officials scored a 44 percent while ordinary citizens managed an amazing 49 percent on the 33 questions compiled by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute. "It is disturbing enough that the general public failed ISI's civic literacy test, but when you consider the even more dismal scores of elected officials, you have to be concerned," said Josiah Bunting, chairman of the National Civic Literacy Board at ISI. The three branches of government aren't the Nina, the Pinta, and the Santa Maria? My note: I wonder how well members of the IGC/IGF would score? Perhaps this should be a test given and required to have passed with at least a 82% correct before speakers at the upcoming Hyderabad meeting? BTW, I also too this test, and got a perfict score. >:) Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 21 03:33:10 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 00:33:10 -0800 Subject: [governance] After Columbine, Eric Holder Advocated Internet "Restrictions" Message-ID: <49267246.CCC48820@ix.netcom.com> All, Reported choice of the new Obama Administration for US AG, Eric Holden favors some government regulation and censorship of the Internet. Does he still, and if so how far will this go? See: In an http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?v=e4qGQukUVr audio clip http://newsbusters.org/blogs/kerry-picket/2008/11/21/new-ag-appointee-advocated-stifle-speech-web discovered by NewsBusters, then-Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder advocated federal censorship of the Internet. This was in the aftermath of the Columbine High School shootings. From the clip: 'The court has really struck down every government effort to try to regulate it. We tried with regard to pornography. It is gonna be a difficult thing, but it seems to me that if we can come up with reasonable restrictions, reasonable regulations in how people interact on the Internet, that is something that the Supreme Court and the courts ought to favorably look at.'" Holder is reported to be Barack Obama's http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/11/19/holder-obama%E2%80%99s-seasoned-pick-for-attorney-general/ choice for Attorney General of the United States. Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From mueller at syr.edu Sat Nov 22 21:01:42 2008 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 21:01:42 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023CA28B@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> I think ideological diversity is as important as gender or regional balance, which can easily turn into a form of tokenism. What matters, after all, is what the CS people actually SAY, isn't it? So for that reason, I would support some combination of Sivasubramanian Muthusamy, a non-IT for Change person, and Anita Gurumurthy or some other IT for Change person. I think Parminder has certainly earned a right to speak as CS rep in this context, but I also know that he will be prominent in some other main sessions. My two cents > -----Original Message----- > From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:14 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and > closing > > Hi all, > > I don't know who nominated me (thanks anyway), but, if I had been > asked first, I would have declined. Sorry for increasing gender > unbalance, but please don't consider my name:) > Since I'm writing on this topic, let me add that I (and certainly > many others) wouldn't understand if selected CS speakers don't > include at least one Indian speaker. Moreover, I strongly support > Anita Gurumurthy be selected, not simply because she is Indian or > because she is a 'she', but because of IT for Change (her > organization) constant commitment to and advancing of CS (or what > should always be affirmed as CS) values. For the same reason, I would > also like to add to the list of nominated persons two other ITfC > representatives active in this caucus: Parminder Jeet Singh and Guru > (Gurumurthy Kasinathan). > > Best, > Meryem > > Le 21 nov. 08 à 19:36, Ian Peter a écrit : > > > We have to close this off midnight Saturday, so please make sure any > > additional names are put forward as soon as possible for speakers for > > opening and closing ceremony. > > > > Including names nominated off list, my understanding of the > > complete list of > > names put forward for consideration by the sub-committee to date > > (please > > correct me if I have left anyone out) is > > > > > > Alice Munyua > > Brian Longwe > > Sean Siochru > > Al Alegre > > Ken Lohento > > Michael Gurstein > > Bill Drake > > Ian Peter > > Carlos Afonso > > Wolfgang Kleinwachter > > Meryem Marzouki > > Valeria Betancourt > > Graciela Selaimen > > Anita Gurumurthy > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > > > > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > >>> > >>>> From: Jeanette Hofmann > >>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > >>>> Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing > >>>> sessions > >>>> > >>>> Hello, > >>>> > >>>> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill > >>>> for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing > >>>> session. The bad news is that we have only one week to send a > >>>> list of > >>>> names to the secretariat. > >>>> > >>>> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to > >>>> have some flexibility for regional balancing. > >>>> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with > >>>> standing > >>>> in civil society. > >>>> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > >>>> particularly welcome! > >>>> > >>>> I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are > >>>> both from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India > >>>> but in terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from > >>>> Africa and Latin America may be more successful. > >>>> > >>>> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. > >>>> And, of > >>>> course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > >>>> secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would > >>>> suggest > >>>> that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims > >>>> to put > >>>> together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and > >>>> other groups. > >>>> > >>>> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage > >>>> this? > >>>> > >>>> Jeanette > >>>> ____________________________________________________________ > >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >>>> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >>>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >>>> > >>>> For all list information and functions, see: > >>>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >>> > >>> ____________________________________________________________ > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >>> > >>> For all list information and functions, see: > >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> ---- > >>> > >>> > >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1789 - Release Date: > >> 14/11/2008 19:32 > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Ken Lohento > >> Uses and Policies of Digital Technology (ICT) Programme > >> Panos Institute West Africa > >> 6 rue Calmette Dakar Sénégal > >> +221 33 849 16 66 > >> www.panos-ao.org > >> www.cipaco.org > >> www.euroafrica-ict.org > >> http://www.haayo.org > >> > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >> > >> For all list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > >> 11/15/2008 9:32 AM > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeremy at ciroap.org Sat Nov 22 22:07:26 2008 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:07:26 +0800 Subject: [governance] A scheduling tip for those attending the IGF Message-ID: <6E394F33-6A6A-4907-9396-7E6DA032654A@ciroap.org> The schedule for the Hyderabad IGF meeting has been online for some time. However you may find it more useful to use a calendar in a format based around Internet standards, that you can import into your favourite calendar software such as iCal or Google Calendar. If so, click here (or here, if that didn't work) to subscribe to the calendar in your own calendar software, or here to visit the Web-based version of the calendar which doesn't need any software. When you open an event in this calendar, it will open up a smaller window which contains a link to a (probably empty) blog post about it. You can comment on this blog post either to record your impressions of the event, or to add more information about it. This is all part of the facilities offered at igf-online.net, which is a community-maintained portal to all of the online resources for the IGF. Because it's not very well known it has been underutilised so far (though a couple of dynamic coalitions are hosted on its wiki), so you are encouraged to check it out, spread the word, and make more use of it in Hyderabad. -- JEREMY MALCOLM Project Coordinator CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE for Asia Pacific and the Middle East Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeremy at ciroap.org Sat Nov 22 22:06:06 2008 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:06:06 +0800 Subject: [governance] Consumers International meeting on A2K at the Internet Governance Forum Message-ID: <554A34E7-7DAD-4831-A636-42843A648B53@ciroap.org> In 2008 Consumers International has launched two related projects to improve Access to Knowledge for consumers. The broader project, funded by Ford Foundation, aims to bolster consumer organizations’ voices worldwide in trade negotiations and other forums where consumer interests are being marginalized through one-sided intellectual property (IP) regimes. The main outcome will be the development of a global consumer dialog on A2K and could lead to future CI campaigns on communications rights. The second project, funded by the Open Society Institute (OSI), aims to produce an Access to Knowledge Watch List, which will identify countries whose IP policies and practices are harmful to consumers. This Watch List will be used as a counterbalance to the United States' Special 301 Report, which is an annual report highlighting those countries that supposedly do not provide strong enough protection for the interests of US intellectual property owners. Consumers International invites all its members and friends to attend an information and networking meeting at which these important new projects will be introduced, and the draft criteria for the Access to Knowledge Watch List will be released, ahead of their finalisation later this month. Date: Friday 5 December 2008 Time: 1:00pm Venue: Room 7, Hyderabad International Convention Centre This meeting is not listed on the official agenda for the IGF, so to make sure that you do not forget, please mark your diary now! -- JEREMY MALCOLM Project Coordinator CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE for Asia Pacific and the Middle East Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeremy at ciroap.org Sat Nov 22 22:22:40 2008 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 11:22:40 +0800 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction Message-ID: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> I have become quiet on this list lately until today, so I thought it was time for a brief re-introduction. My quietness was because where I obtained employment would determine how closely I could continue to be involved in the IGF. Well, as you'll have guessed from one of my last messages, that turned out to be Consumers International - which fits in very well with my continued involvement. :-) So you'll be able to find me at the Consumers International event during Friday lunchtime, as well as on the panels of the IGC seminar on the Role and Mandate of the IGF on Saturday morning, and the OECD seminar on Digital Content Strategies and Policies on Friday afternoon, and doing a poster presentation at GigaNet. Also the Internet Governance Project has just kindly distributed a paper of mine called "Appraising the Success of the IGF" which you can find at http://www.internetgovernance.org/pdf/MalcolmIGFReview.pdf. Comments are welcome as always (but flames to me, not the IGP). -- JEREMY MALCOLM Project Coordinator CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE for Asia Pacific and the Middle East Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From parminder at itforchange.net Sat Nov 22 22:41:34 2008 From: parminder at itforchange.net (Parminder) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 09:11:34 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing In-Reply-To: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023CA28B@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <20081123034146.23CD4E0431@smtp3.electricembers.net> I think Parminder has certainly earned a right to > speak as CS rep in this context, but I also know that he will be prominent > in some other main sessions. Milton While I greatly thank Meryem for nominating me, and you too for your kind words, I myself am going by the criterion that those of us who are already on other plenary panels should not be speaking at opening/ closing ceremonies. So, you are right I must not be considered. In fact, Milton, your name is not in the list put out by Ian only because we know that youd be on the IPv6 panel. I say this just to reiterate that this criterion is already being applied. Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu] > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 7:32 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and > closing > > I think ideological diversity is as important as gender or regional > balance, which can easily turn into a form of tokenism. What matters, > after all, is what the CS people actually SAY, isn't it? > > So for that reason, I would support some combination of Sivasubramanian > Muthusamy, a non-IT for Change person, and Anita Gurumurthy or some other > IT for Change person. I think Parminder has certainly earned a right to > speak as CS rep in this context, but I also know that he will be prominent > in some other main sessions. > > My two cents > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:14 PM > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and > > closing > > > > Hi all, > > > > I don't know who nominated me (thanks anyway), but, if I had been > > asked first, I would have declined. Sorry for increasing gender > > unbalance, but please don't consider my name:) > > Since I'm writing on this topic, let me add that I (and certainly > > many others) wouldn't understand if selected CS speakers don't > > include at least one Indian speaker. Moreover, I strongly support > > Anita Gurumurthy be selected, not simply because she is Indian or > > because she is a 'she', but because of IT for Change (her > > organization) constant commitment to and advancing of CS (or what > > should always be affirmed as CS) values. For the same reason, I would > > also like to add to the list of nominated persons two other ITfC > > representatives active in this caucus: Parminder Jeet Singh and Guru > > (Gurumurthy Kasinathan). > > > > Best, > > Meryem > > > > Le 21 nov. 08 à 19:36, Ian Peter a écrit : > > > > > We have to close this off midnight Saturday, so please make sure any > > > additional names are put forward as soon as possible for speakers for > > > opening and closing ceremony. > > > > > > Including names nominated off list, my understanding of the > > > complete list of > > > names put forward for consideration by the sub-committee to date > > > (please > > > correct me if I have left anyone out) is > > > > > > > > > Alice Munyua > > > Brian Longwe > > > Sean Siochru > > > Al Alegre > > > Ken Lohento > > > Michael Gurstein > > > Bill Drake > > > Ian Peter > > > Carlos Afonso > > > Wolfgang Kleinwachter > > > Meryem Marzouki > > > Valeria Betancourt > > > Graciela Selaimen > > > Anita Gurumurthy > > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > > > > > > > > > Ian Peter > > > PO Box 429 > > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > > Australia > > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > > > >>> > > >>>> From: Jeanette Hofmann > > >>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > >>>> Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing > > >>>> sessions > > >>>> > > >>>> Hello, > > >>>> > > >>>> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to fill > > >>>> for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the closing > > >>>> session. The bad news is that we have only one week to send a > > >>>> list of > > >>>> names to the secretariat. > > >>>> > > >>>> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names to > > >>>> have some flexibility for regional balancing. > > >>>> Considering the context, we need accomplished speakers with > > >>>> standing > > >>>> in civil society. > > >>>> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > > >>>> particularly welcome! > > >>>> > > >>>> I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector are > > >>>> both from India. So, we may propose additional speakers from India > > >>>> but in terms of regional balance, suggestions for speakers from > > >>>> Africa and Latin America may be more successful. > > >>>> > > >>>> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. > > >>>> And, of > > >>>> course, everyone is free to send suggestions for speakers to the > > >>>> secretariat directly. However, for practical reasons I would > > >>>> suggest > > >>>> that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims > > >>>> to put > > >>>> together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and > > >>>> other groups. > > >>>> > > >>>> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we manage > > >>>> this? > > >>>> > > >>>> Jeanette > > >>>> ____________________________________________________________ > > >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > >>>> governance at lists.cpsr.org > > >>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > >>>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > >>>> > > >>>> For all list information and functions, see: > > >>>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > >>> > > >>> ____________________________________________________________ > > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org > > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > >>> > > >>> For all list information and functions, see: > > >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> ---- > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1789 - Release Date: > > >> 14/11/2008 19:32 > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Ken Lohento > > >> Uses and Policies of Digital Technology (ICT) Programme > > >> Panos Institute West Africa > > >> 6 rue Calmette Dakar Sénégal > > >> +221 33 849 16 66 > > >> www.panos-ao.org > > >> www.cipaco.org > > >> www.euroafrica-ict.org > > >> http://www.haayo.org > > >> > > >> ____________________________________________________________ > > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > >> > > >> For all list information and functions, see: > > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > > >> 11/15/2008 9:32 AM > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 22 02:56:11 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:56:11 -0800 Subject: [governance] Consumers International meeting on A2K at theInternet References: <554A34E7-7DAD-4831-A636-42843A648B53@ciroap.org> Message-ID: <4927BB1B.89DD52FC@ix.netcom.com> Jeremy and all, Thank you very much for the announcment/information. I wasn't aware that the Ford foundation had the funding avaliable for such a project given the recent downturn in the US auto industry and the CEO's of the "Big 3" seeking taxpayer funds to keep them afloat. Perhaps their request for same was not well founded? Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > In 2008 Consumers International has launched two related projects to > improve Access to Knowledge for consumers. The broader project, funded > by Ford Foundation, aims to bolster consumer organizations’ voices > worldwide in trade negotiations and other forums where consumer > interests are being marginalized through one-sided intellectual > property (IP) regimes. The main outcome will be the development of a > global consumer dialog on A2K and could lead to future CI campaigns on > communications rights. > > The second project, funded by the Open Society Institute (OSI), aims > to produce an Access to Knowledge Watch List, which will identify > countries whose IP policies and practices are harmful to consumers. > This Watch List will be used as a counterbalance to the United States' > Special 301 Report, which is an annual report highlighting those > countries that supposedly do not provide strong enough protection for > the interests of US intellectual property owners. > > Consumers International invites all its members and friends to attend > an information and networking meeting at which these important new > projects will be introduced, and the draft criteria for the Access to > Knowledge Watch List will be released, ahead of their finalisation > later this month. > > Date: Friday 5 December 2008 > Time: 1:00pm > Venue: Room 7, > Hyderabad International Convention Centre > > This meeting is not listed on the official agenda for the IGF, so to > make sure that you do not forget, please mark your diary now! > > -- > JEREMY MALCOLM > Project Coordinator > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global > campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in > 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer > movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more > information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From alalegre at fma.ph Sun Nov 23 01:53:41 2008 From: alalegre at fma.ph (Al Alegre) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 14:53:41 +0800 (PHT) Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and In-Reply-To: <20081122045652.7757991FF9@npogroups.org> References: <20081122045652.7757991FF9@npogroups.org> Message-ID: <52391.121.1.18.242.1227423221.squirrel@rizal.ph.net> Hello to all IGC listmembers As with Meryem below, the inclusion of my name in the nominees list, was a surprise. Though thankful for the nominator's trust (whoever s/he is), I would have declined if formally asked. There are many more more qualified people, more active on IGC matters (and on this list), and whose participation in the closing/opening ceremonies would better serve the objectives of CS for this event. Please remove my name from consideration. I would support someone from LAC, AFrica or Asia--so one would not go wrong in my mind with people like Valeria, Graciela, Alice or Anita... If that someone would be more open to solicit ideas from this CS group (and others) as to what would be the important messages to deliver, and somehow incorporating the most strategic ones in her/his intervention, that would be great too. in solidarity Al Alegre > - 3: -------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:13:58 +0100 > From: Meryem Marzouki > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and > closing > > Hi all, > > I don't know who nominated me (thanks anyway), but, if I had been > asked first, I would have declined. Sorry for increasing gender > unbalance, but please don't consider my name:) > Since I'm writing on this topic, let me add that I (and certainly > many others) wouldn't understand if selected CS speakers don't > include at least one Indian speaker. Moreover, I strongly support > Anita Gurumurthy be selected, not simply because she is Indian or > because she is a 'she', but because of IT for Change (her > organization) constant commitment to and advancing of CS (or what > should always be affirmed as CS) values. For the same reason, I would > also like to add to the list of nominated persons two other ITfC > representatives active in this caucus: Parminder Jeet Singh and Guru > (Gurumurthy Kasinathan). > > Best, > Meryem > > Le 21 nov. 08 à 19:36, Ian Peter a écrit : > >> We have to close this off midnight Saturday, so please make sure any >> additional names are put forward as soon as possible for speakers for >> opening and closing ceremony. >> >> Including names nominated off list, my understanding of the >> complete list of >> names put forward for consideration by the sub-committee to date >> (please >> correct me if I have left anyone out) is >> >> >> Alice Munyua >> Brian Longwe >> Sean Siochru >> Al Alegre >> Ken Lohento >> Michael Gurstein >> Bill Drake >> Ian Peter >> Carlos Afonso >> Wolfgang Kleinwachter >> Meryem Marzouki >> Valeria Betancourt >> Graciela Selaimen >> Anita Gurumurthy >> Sivasubramanian Muthusamy >> >> >> >> Ian Peter >> PO Box 429 >> Bangalow NSW 2479 >> Australia >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> www.ianpeter.com >> ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 04:19:01 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:19:01 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing In-Reply-To: <20081123034146.23CD4E0431@smtp3.electricembers.net> Message-ID: <922C44F813174AF8B92B41D6269A4235@userPC> Maybe I've got the nomenclature wrong but I'm on a panel for a Workshop as well so that probably eliminates me. MG -----Original Message----- From: Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] Sent: November-23-08 4:42 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Milton L Mueller' Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing I think Parminder has certainly earned a right to > speak as CS rep in this context, but I also know that he will be > prominent in some other main sessions. Milton While I greatly thank Meryem for nominating me, and you too for your kind words, I myself am going by the criterion that those of us who are already on other plenary panels should not be speaking at opening/ closing ceremonies. So, you are right I must not be considered. In fact, Milton, your name is not in the list put out by Ian only because we know that youd be on the IPv6 panel. I say this just to reiterate that this criterion is already being applied. Parminder > -----Original Message----- > From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu] > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 7:32 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: RE: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening > and closing > > I think ideological diversity is as important as gender or regional > balance, which can easily turn into a form of tokenism. What matters, > after all, is what the CS people actually SAY, isn't it? > > So for that reason, I would support some combination of > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy, a non-IT for Change person, and Anita > Gurumurthy or some other IT for Change person. I think Parminder has > certainly earned a right to speak as CS rep in this context, but I > also know that he will be prominent in some other main sessions. > > My two cents > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] > > Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:14 PM > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fwd: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening > > and closing > > > > Hi all, > > > > I don't know who nominated me (thanks anyway), but, if I had been > > asked first, I would have declined. Sorry for increasing gender > > unbalance, but please don't consider my name:) Since I'm writing on > > this topic, let me add that I (and certainly many others) wouldn't > > understand if selected CS speakers don't include at least one Indian > > speaker. Moreover, I strongly support Anita Gurumurthy be selected, > > not simply because she is Indian or because she is a 'she', but > > because of IT for Change (her > > organization) constant commitment to and advancing of CS (or what > > should always be affirmed as CS) values. For the same reason, I > > would also like to add to the list of nominated persons two other > > ITfC representatives active in this caucus: Parminder Jeet Singh and > > Guru (Gurumurthy Kasinathan). > > > > Best, > > Meryem > > > > Le 21 nov. 08 à 19:36, Ian Peter a écrit : > > > > > We have to close this off midnight Saturday, so please make sure > > > any additional names are put forward as soon as possible for > > > speakers for opening and closing ceremony. > > > > > > Including names nominated off list, my understanding of the > > > complete list of names put forward for consideration by the > > > sub-committee to date (please > > > correct me if I have left anyone out) is > > > > > > > > > Alice Munyua > > > Brian Longwe > > > Sean Siochru > > > Al Alegre > > > Ken Lohento > > > Michael Gurstein > > > Bill Drake > > > Ian Peter > > > Carlos Afonso > > > Wolfgang Kleinwachter > > > Meryem Marzouki > > > Valeria Betancourt > > > Graciela Selaimen > > > Anita Gurumurthy > > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > > > > > > > > > > Ian Peter > > > PO Box 429 > > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > > Australia > > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > > > >>> > > >>>> From: Jeanette Hofmann > > >>>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > >>>> Subject: [governance] CS speakers for IGF opening and closing > > >>>> sessions > > >>>> > > >>>> Hello, > > >>>> > > >>>> the good news is that civil society has speaking positions to > > >>>> fill for Hyderabad, two for the opening session, one for the > > >>>> closing session. The bad news is that we have only one week to > > >>>> send a list of names to the secretariat. > > >>>> > > >>>> The secretariat would welcome a list with more than three names > > >>>> to have some flexibility for regional balancing. Considering > > >>>> the context, we need accomplished speakers with standing > > >>>> in civil society. > > >>>> Gender balance is taken seriously, names of female speakers are > > >>>> particularly welcome! > > >>>> > > >>>> I have been told that the two speakers from the private sector > > >>>> are both from India. So, we may propose additional speakers > > >>>> from India but in terms of regional balance, suggestions for > > >>>> speakers from Africa and Latin America may be more successful. > > >>>> > > >>>> Everyone is encouraged to distribute this call for speakers. > > >>>> And, of course, everyone is free to send suggestions for > > >>>> speakers to the secretariat directly. However, for practical > > >>>> reasons I would suggest > > >>>> that the IGC mailing list assumes a coordinating role and aims > > >>>> to put > > >>>> together a list of names that enjoys support from its members and > > >>>> other groups. > > >>>> > > >>>> The secretariat wishes to hear from us until Nov. 26. Can we > > >>>> manage this? > > >>>> > > >>>> Jeanette > > >>>> ____________________________________________________________ > > >>>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > >>>> governance at lists.cpsr.org > > >>>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > >>>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > >>>> > > >>>> For all list information and functions, see: > > >>>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > >>> > > >>> ____________________________________________________________ > > >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org > > >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > >>> > > >>> For all list information and functions, see: > > >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> ---- > > >>> ---- > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > >>> Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1789 - Release Date: > > >> 14/11/2008 19:32 > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Ken Lohento > > >> Uses and Policies of Digital Technology (ICT) Programme Panos > > >> Institute West Africa 6 rue Calmette Dakar Sénégal > > >> +221 33 849 16 66 > > >> www.panos-ao.org > > >> www.cipaco.org > > >> www.euroafrica-ict.org > > >> http://www.haayo.org > > >> > > >> ____________________________________________________________ > > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > >> > > >> For all list information and functions, see: > > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > > >> 11/15/2008 9:32 AM > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sat Nov 22 06:28:05 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 03:28:05 -0800 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> Message-ID: <4927ECC5.9CE8F3F@ix.netcom.com> Jeremy and all, I have a few questions regarding your organization that as an exercise off the cuff as it were, might serve as good background and input to the IGF restructuring so that a better and more direct serving IGF can emerge that can than have a real impact of Internet governance. As we have some very important decisions in the US coming up in the new administration it seemed to me to be a good time for these sorts of reviews with resulting questions to be brought forward so that openness and transparency can be recognized and a good start forward can be quickly but deliberately recognized and effected. I noticed at http://www.consumersinternational.org/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=96883&int1stParentNodeID=89655&int2ndParentNodeID=96868 that there was no category for individual members. As such, how does consumersinternational purport to fully be able to represent consumers or stakeholders unless they each have a voice and a vote? I also noticed at: http://www.consumersinternational.org/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=96887&int1stParentNodeID=89655&int2ndParentNodeID=96868 that essentially your organization requires what amounts to Tithing. To my knowledge under US law this seem to be financially discriminatory as such. So how does your organization square that with consumer protection advocacy? I also took particular notice at: http://www.consumersinternational.org/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=96883&int1stParentNodeID=89655&int2ndParentNodeID=96868 Given the nature of you membership, if one actually calls it that, categories, that some categories of "Organization members", however that translates into consumers or stakeholders advocacy, that several types of memberships do not have a vote at all. How can those organization than be actually represented in terms of consumer protection? I also took particular note of your organizations domain name configuration: http://member.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnslite.php?r=homepage&domain=consumersinternational.org and http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=consumersinternational.org&token=1140487061c0016606a0758720779019 This does not boad well for advocacy of consumer protection... Would you be so kind as to direct Afilias whom seems to be handeling your DNS to get this cleaned up as soon as possible? It just looks really bad, sorry to say... Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > I have become quiet on this list lately until today, so I thought it > was time for a brief re-introduction. > > My quietness was because where I obtained employment would determine > how closely I could continue to be involved in the IGF. Well, as > you'll have guessed from one of my last messages, that turned out to > be Consumers International - which fits in very well with my continued > involvement. :-) > > So you'll be able to find me at the Consumers International event > during Friday lunchtime, as well as on the panels of the IGC seminar > on the Role and Mandate of the IGF on Saturday morning, and the OECD > seminar on Digital Content Strategies and Policies on Friday > afternoon, and doing a poster presentation at GigaNet. > > Also the Internet Governance Project has just kindly distributed a > paper of mine called "Appraising the Success of the IGF" which you can > find at http://www.internetgovernance.org/pdf/MalcolmIGFReview.pdf. > Comments are welcome as always (but flames to me, not the IGP). > > -- > JEREMY MALCOLM > Project Coordinator > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global > campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in > 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer > movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more > information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From pbateman.igov at gmail.com Sun Nov 23 04:57:38 2008 From: pbateman.igov at gmail.com (Paddy bateman) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:57:38 +0100 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction In-Reply-To: <4927ECC5.9CE8F3F@ix.netcom.com> References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <4927ECC5.9CE8F3F@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <745321aa0811230157g1e570c6dse01cf4b3345b3ef9@mail.gmail.com> And where is some open information about your organization? On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 12:28 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams < jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote: > Jeremy and all, > > I have a few questions regarding your organization that as an exercise > off the cuff as it were, might serve as good background and input > to the IGF restructuring so that a better and more direct serving > IGF can emerge that can than have a real impact of Internet governance. > As we have some very important decisions in the US coming up in the > new administration it seemed to me to be a good time for these sorts > of reviews with resulting questions to be brought forward so that > openness and transparency can be recognized and a good start forward > can be quickly but deliberately recognized and effected. > > I noticed at > > http://www.consumersinternational.org/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=96883&int1stParentNodeID=89655&int2ndParentNodeID=96868 > that there was no category for individual members. As such, how does > consumersinternational purport to fully be able to represent consumers > or stakeholders unless they each have a voice and a vote? > > I also noticed at: > > http://www.consumersinternational.org/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=96887&int1stParentNodeID=89655&int2ndParentNodeID=96868 > that essentially your organization requires what amounts to Tithing. To > my knowledge under US law this seem to be financially discriminatory as > such. So how does your organization square that with consumer > protection advocacy? > > I also took particular notice at: > > http://www.consumersinternational.org/Templates/Internal.asp?NodeID=96883&int1stParentNodeID=89655&int2ndParentNodeID=96868 > Given the nature of you membership, if one actually calls it that, > categories, that some categories of "Organization members", however > that translates into consumers or stakeholders advocacy, that several > types of memberships do not have a vote at all. How can those > organization than be actually represented in terms of consumer > protection? > > I also took particular note of your organizations domain name > configuration: > > http://member.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnslite.php?r=homepage&domain=consumersinternational.org > and > > http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=consumersinternational.org&token=1140487061c0016606a0758720779019 > This does not boad well for advocacy of consumer protection... > Would you be so kind as to direct Afilias whom seems to be handeling > your DNS to get this cleaned up as soon as possible? It just looks > really bad, sorry to say... > > Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > > > I have become quiet on this list lately until today, so I thought it > > was time for a brief re-introduction. > > > > My quietness was because where I obtained employment would determine > > how closely I could continue to be involved in the IGF. Well, as > > you'll have guessed from one of my last messages, that turned out to > > be Consumers International - which fits in very well with my continued > > involvement. :-) > > > > So you'll be able to find me at the Consumers International event > > during Friday lunchtime, as well as on the panels of the IGC seminar > > on the Role and Mandate of the IGF on Saturday morning, and the OECD > > seminar on Digital Content Strategies and Policies on Friday > > afternoon, and doing a poster presentation at GigaNet. > > > > Also the Internet Governance Project has just kindly distributed a > > paper of mine called "Appraising the Success of the IGF" which you can > > find at http://www.internetgovernance.org/pdf/MalcolmIGFReview.pdf. > > Comments are welcome as always (but flames to me, not the IGP). > > > > -- > > JEREMY MALCOLM > > Project Coordinator > > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global > > campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in > > 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer > > movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more > > information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > =============================================================== > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeremy at ciroap.org Sun Nov 23 09:08:58 2008 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:08:58 +0800 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction In-Reply-To: <4927ECC5.9CE8F3F@ix.netcom.com> References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <4927ECC5.9CE8F3F@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On 22/11/2008, at 7:28 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: > Jeremy and all, I'm going to reply to this off-list, on the assumption that nobody else is sufficiently concerned about Jeffrey's questions to justify the list traffic. Reply to me personally if the assumption is misplaced. -- JEREMY MALCOLM Project Coordinator CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE for Asia Pacific and the Middle East Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From mueller at syr.edu Sun Nov 23 09:48:54 2008 From: mueller at syr.edu (Milton L Mueller) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 09:48:54 -0500 Subject: [governance] New "user voice" website for IGF feedback Message-ID: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023CA28F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> As we head to Hyderabad, IGP is launching an online IGF feedback forum website at http://igf.uservoice.com. The site allows anyone to easily submit and vote on ideas for improving the IGF. It is bottom-up, multistakeholder-driven, collaborative effort - so have at it! Whether ideas are reflect positively or negatively on the IGF, let the Secretariat hear your voice. We are also distributing a paper by Jeremy Malcolm on "Appraising the Success of the IGF" http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog --MM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Sun Nov 23 18:32:12 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:32:12 +1100 Subject: [governance] IGC Meeting , Hyderabad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <373B102427404591B343CD74C34B5EDF@IAN> Given all the feedback - plus now we know the hosts are preparing a cultural event and dinner on the first night of IGF (Dec 3) The IGF meeting should be as proposed before and agreed to by most people DECEMBER 2, 6.30PM. Right after Giganet Business Meeting. Hopefully we can keep this fairly concise. Meryem, can you confirm extension of meeting room as venue as suggested below? Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] > Sent: 11 November 2008 06:04 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad > > Hi Anja and all > > You're right, the IGF starts on the 3rd (Wednesday), and GigaNet > symposium is held on the 2nd, until 18:30. > Having an IGC meeting right after GigaNet business meeting (i.e. > 18:30-20:30) could be an option, especially since, most probably, we > could keep the same room (Parminder, I can ask if you want me to do > so, since I'm anyhow in contact with the IGF secretariat and with > HICC event manager re: logistics issues). > > Best, > Meryem > > -- > Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org > IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire > 40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris > > > Le 10 nov. 08 à 08:32, Anja a écrit : > > > Param, doesn't the IGF start on the 3rd? > > > > Anja > > > > Parminder wrote: > >> > >> Ian > >> > >> After posting a report on IGC at the IGF, the customary IGC > >> meeting at IGF was the next thing I was going to suggest. How does > >> the evening of 1^st (eve of IGF) or 2^nd (day 1 of the IGF) sound > >> to all those who will be attending. > >> > >> I also was not seeking a statement from the IGC on the way IGF > >> should evolve, only seeking to orient the group towards starting > >> to engage with this issue. We have a workshop on this issue at the > >> IGF, and IGF review process kind of starts from IGF, Hyderabad, > >> onwards. > >> > >> I agree with what you say, Ian, on starting the election process. > >> > >> Parminder > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:47 AM > >> *To:* 'Ian Peter'; governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Parminder' > >> *Subject:* RE: OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless > >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> Oh ***.#### - will I ever learn to check address lines before > >> pressing send. That was meant to be offlist . > >> > >> Anyway I guess that pre-empts a couple of things we need to > >> discuss in any case. > >> > >> Ian Peter > >> > >> PO Box 429 > >> > >> Bangalow NSW 2479 > >> > >> Australia > >> > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > >> > >> www.ianpeter.com > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* Ian Peter [mailto:ian.peter at ianpeter.com] > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 17:14 > >> *To:* 'governance at lists.cpsr.org'; 'Parminder' > >> *Subject:* OFFLIST RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless > >> forced marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> Hi Parminder, > >> > >> Not sure we will get much of a statement on this together before > >> Hyderabad, but should we organize a meeting of IGC say night > >> before IGF starts to discuss some issues (we may have to get in > >> early and be sure to avoid GigaNet and other events but something > >> like that seems important). I’ll respond but will be interested to > >> see what others say first. > >> > >> On another note I am going to begin to call for nominations for > >> your co-ordinator position mid next week. I am going to release > >> names periodically as they are received and certainly before > >> Hyderabad. I am going to leave nominations open until post > >> Hyderabad so that members can review nominees, talk to them, add > >> names if no-one good is forthcoming etc before vote starts. I > >> think that might be the way to get the best field. > >> > >> All the best, > >> > >> Ian Peter > >> > >> PO Box 429 > >> > >> Bangalow NSW 2479 > >> > >> Australia > >> > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > >> > >> www.ianpeter.com > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* Parminder [mailto:parminder at itforchange.net] > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 16:51 > >> *To:* 'WSIS CS WG on Information Networks Governance'; > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > >> *Subject:* RE: [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced > >> marriage Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we > >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet >all the important issues > >> (lest anyone take offence?) > >> > >> Ian, you point to an important issue, and danger. > >> > >> Some of us have been arguing for long that the IGF is civil > >> society’s best bet in many ways. It is a new-age organization that > >> is relatively representative of people and groups across the > >> world, and still has been able to maintain some distance from > >> strong statist control on the one side and corporate control on > >> the other. > >> > >> However, many others in the civil society, including within the > >> IGC, have been over-cautious in putting our weight behind > >> strengthening the IGF in all ways that we can – whether the issue > >> has been of some substantive (and not merely advisorial) capacity > >> of the core IGF group (currently named MAG) or doing substantive > >> inter-sessional work and giving some kind of real, if non-binding, > >> outputs on key IG issues. > >> > >> I think that we as a group may need to revisit our positions on > >> this issue, or al least discuss them to see if new directions need > >> to be taken in view of current and emergent realities. > >> > >> It is a fact that the IGF may be in real trouble, and in the > >> danger of being sidelined as an annual conference that no one of > >> any real importance takes any note of. We must review what would > >> it mean in terms of civil society and progressive interests. In > >> light of such a review we may need to have clearer common > >> positions of how we want to engage with the IGF, and how we want > >> to see it evolve. Such a review is an even more urgent imperative > >> in view of the forthcoming process of IGF review which will start > >> in earnest immediately after the IGF, Hyderabad. What gets said > >> and discussed at Hyderabad may have some important implications > >> for this review. > >> > >> Parminder > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org [mailto:gov-bounces at wsis-gov.org] > >> *On Behalf Of *Ian Peter > >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:02 AM > >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; 'Dr. Francis MUGUET' > >> *Cc:* 'WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance' > >> *Subject:* [Gov 586] Re:ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage > >> Re: [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the > >> opinion that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and > >> avoiding issues – it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > >> > >> Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. Certainly some > >> parties wish to avoid meaningful discussion, and are we > >> diplomatically sweeping under the carpet all the important issues > >> (lest anyone take offence?) > >> > >> My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn’t succeed in > >> addressing the real issues are worse than those if it does > >> succeed. Balkanisation or globalisation? Take your pick . > >> > >> Ian Peter > >> > >> PO Box 429 > >> > >> Bangalow NSW 2479 > >> > >> Australia > >> > >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > >> > >> www.ianpeter.com > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> --- > >> > >> *From:* Dr. Francis MUGUET [mailto:muguet at mdpi.net] > >> *Sent:* 09 November 2008 15:44 > >> *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Wolfgang > >> *Cc:* WSIS Civil Soc. WG on Information Networks Governance > >> *Subject:* ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage Re: > >> [governance] ITU & ICANN in Cairo > >> > >> Dear Wolfgang > >> > >> Interesting to notice a press analysis of Touré's speech, most > >> notably about the IGF. > >> > >> The statement from Touré has not been unnoticed. > >> > >> /Coming back to what we do with ICANN, we also participate > >> actively in the work of Internet Governance Forum, which was > >> established as the result of the multistakeholder deliberations at > >> the WSIS. I personally believe that the IGF is just going around > >> and around, avoiding the topics, and becomes sometimes a waste of > >> time. We need to address issues frankly and try to solve them. And > >> that's why I thought I should be here to talk to you here, so that > >> we learn to know each other better. Next year, ITU will organize > >> the World Policy Forum, which addresses a number of Internet- > >> related public-policy issues, ranging from cybersecurity and data > >> protection to multilingualism and the ongoing development of > >> Internet. I hope you will not tell me here, "Don't talk about > >> Internet." It's an issue for everyone./ > >> > >> > >> > >> Best Francis > >> > >> --------------------------------- > >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/print/111914 > >> > >> 7 November 2008, 12:30 > >> > >> > >> *ITU and ICANN – a loveless forced marriage* > >> > >> ITU Secretary General Hamadoun Touré has called for better > >> collaboration between the *International Telecommunication Union[1] > >> * (ITU) and the *Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and > >> Numbers[2]* (ICANN). "Our members have unnecessarily attacked and > >> criticised each other and I think we should put an end to that," > >> said Touré on Thursday at the 33rd ICANN meeting in Cairo. > >> According to Touré, the two organisations need to get to know each > >> other better and learn to love each other, as telecommunications > >> and the internet are ultimately condemned to a "forced marriage". > >> > >> Despite the outstretched hand, the ITU Secretary General did not > >> spare the criticism in his first appearance at an ICANN meeting. > >> Touré made it clear to the assembled experts that he saw his > >> organisation as playing the dominant role in the forced marriage > >> and made his opinion of the other party clear – provocatively > >> describing ICANN's Governmental Advisory Committee as purely > >> cosmetic. > >> > >> The depth of the chasm between the two – the UN organisation, > >> which has its roots in the telecommunications world, and the quasi- > >> internet-regulator ICANN – was stressed by a series of further > >> statements in the half-hour talk given by the head of the ITU. > >> Touré repeatedly spoke of the "war" between the two organisations. > >> According to Touré, who was elected in 2006, "The best way to win > >> a war, is to prevent it." > >> > >> In the course of his 'marriage proposal', he referred extensively > >> to the ITU's outstanding role. Key topics for his organisation, he > >> noted, include the internationalisation of domains, something with > >> which ICANN is currently engaged, the *transition to IPv6[3]*, > >> standardisation for the all-IP *Next Generation Network[4]* (NGN), > >> cyber-security, the fight against online terrorism and child > >> protection online. > >> > >> Touré rejected concerns that the ITU was appointing itself as > >> global regulator of internet resources and processes, "The ITU has > >> clear boundaries. We do not perform the operative business." > >> However, he underlined the organisation's demand, set out in its > >> *Cybersecurity Agenda[5]*, to be responsible for a global > >> framework in the fight against online terrorism and criminality. > >> He also defended the controversial *IP traceback[6]* standard > >> proposal. "There is not one country which isn't doing it, it's > >> just that each country is doing it differently," said Touré. > >> > >> Touré also rejected criticism that the ITU operates behind closed > >> doors. He stated that the organisation has around 700 sector > >> members from the telecommunications industry and also admits NGOs > >> as members. Touré also praised the ITU's openness – a nod to the > >> *World Summit on the Information Society[7]* (WSIS). The summit, > >> organised under ITU auspices, is, according to Touré, the first UN > >> summit at which civil society has also been invited to sit at the > >> table, rather than demonstrating outside. > >> > >> In the same breath, Touré expressed strong criticism of the > >> *Internet Governance Forum[8]* (IGF), which was called into being > >> by the WSIS, "I am personally of the opinion that the IGF is > >> continuously going round in circles and avoiding issues – it is > >> becoming more and more a waste of time." Therefore, the ITU is > >> planning a global forum for internet policy next year as a rival > >> event. > >> > >> Touré also fired a further undiplomatic broadside at the work > >> performed by governments within ICANN. "The Governmental Advisory > >> Committee is ICANN's weak point," said Touré. His criticism was > >> directed at the advisory function of the Governmental Advisory > >> Committee (GAC) in developing rules for the domain name system. > >> "If someone gives me advice, I am free to take it or leave it." > >> The ICANN's GAC is therefore nothing more than "cosmetic", noted > >> Touré forthrightly. > >> > >> In a short statement following Touré's speech, the Brazilian > >> government representative on the GAC demanded, in the name of his > >> and the Argentinian government, the "strengthening of the GAC". > >> Latvian diplomat Janis Karklins, re-elected as GAC chairman, by > >> contrast noted that the ITU and ICANN operated according to very > >> different political models, "From the viewpoint of an > >> international organisation, the ICANN model may appear weak, > >> because governments are merely advisory, whilst in an > >> international organisation they run the show." ICANN is, he > >> opined, based on the novel idea of collaboration between > >> interested parties. He noted that both models have their > >> advantages and disadvantages, and that governments need to learn > >> to operate within both models. > >> > >> (//Monika Ermert//) > >> > >> (*lghp[9]*) > >> > >>
> >> > >> **URL of this Article:** > >> http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/111914 > >> > >> **Links in this Article:** > >> [1] http://www.itu.int/ > >> [2] http://www.icann.org > >> [3] http://www.heise-online.co.uk/news/OECD-member-states-throw- > >> their-weight-behind-IPv6--/110960 > >> [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Generation_Networking > >> [5] http://www.itu.int/osg/csd/cybersecurity/gca/ > >> [6] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10040152-38.html > >> [7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WSIS > >> [8] http://www.intgovforum.org/ > >> [9] mailto:lghp at heise-online.co.uk > >> > >> Dear friends > >> find attached the statement of ITU DG Toure during the recent > >> ICANN meeting in Cairo and the discussion. This was a very > >> interesting dialogue on the concept and understanding of the > >> principle of "multistakeholderism". A very good piece whith very > >> clear and frank language which will certainly provoke discussion > >> and could be an interesting starting point for a new conceptual > >> debate on what "multistakholderism" is, why we witness a clash of > >> cultures in Internet policy development and how the old model of > >> an hierachical top down IG organisation and the new model of a > >> network bottom up MS organisation can or can not collaborate and > >> coexist in the global diplomacy of the 21st century. Wolfgang > >> ____________________________________________________________ > >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > >> governance at lists.cpsr.org > >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: > >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org> > >> For all list information and functions, see: > >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > >> > >> -- > >> > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > >> > >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. > >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > >> 9/12/2008 2:18 PM > >> > > > > -- > > Dr. Anja Kovacs > > Senior Research Associate > > > > IT for Change > > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities > > Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890 > > > > www.ITforChange.net > > www.IS-Watch.net > > http://India.IS-Watch.net > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: 9/12/2008 > 2:18 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 23 04:05:04 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:05:04 -0800 Subject: [governance] Re: story to post Laws bolster penalties for privacy breaches inCalifornia References: <014101c94df9$2dca06e0$895e14a0$@org> Message-ID: <49291CC0.CB4B7E56@ix.netcom.com> Debbie and all, This is IMO a good law, but not good enough, sorry to say. Many patients may not even have access or good access to lawyers whom are willing and able to take on these cases to a successful end, and when they do, the max fine is rarely levied, which at $250k is hardly steep enough to even in many cases, cover the legal fees for the wronged. And in Texas, as you know, punitive damages are almost never levied. So stronger revision of these statutes and a federally mandated statute is sorely needed here. As a security and privacy issue, this sort of thing also needs IMO an international legal framework that is readily enforceable. With the International house of Justice now prosecuting civil cases, which such a framework may be built, but I would prefer a criminal framework to emphasize the importance and serve better as a deterrent. We can only hope that companies like Google, will disengage from the sorts of activities it has significantly engaged in in respect to privacy related data, but has thus far decided for whatever reason not to do so sufficiently to date. As a result, many consumers are thus greatly exposed and have little or no control to prevent such. That's not expectable. But there are things consumers can do, one in respect to Google is to discontinue using any Google products, which is draconian indeed and unfortunate, but effective to a significant degree in as much as limiting the damage. The other, which is related, is to have a watch list of websites/domain names that have demonstrated such lax security practices that may impact or expose private data to the public. A recent one I mentioned recently is consumersinternational.org. See: http://member.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnslite.php?r=homepage&domain=consumersinternational.org and http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=consumersinternational.org&token=1140487061c0016606a0758720779019 and http://member.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnslite.php?r=homepage&domain=ciroap.org and http://private.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnsreport.ch?domain=ciroap.org&token=07b040c1680509b00230148903d99019 Although these warnings and errors are not of a overly serious sort, they demonstrate a lack of concern and consideration for consumers that demonstrates sloppiness and disrespect for the consumers they purport to advocate for on in behalf of. Yet niether of these two suggestions will be enough either as awarness will take a long time to be widely diciminated. Ergo, individuals when they run across such web sites should be encouraged to report same to relevant and appropriate authorities and than follow up with them to emphisize that real action needs and indeed must be taken to greater good of us all. Deborah Peel wrote: > http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2008/12/01/bisa1201.htm > > [amednews.com] > > BUSINESS > > Laws bolster penalties for privacy breaches in California > > In the wake of multiple high-profile cases of snooping, the state > cracks down on unauthorized looks at medical files. > > By Pamela Lewis Dolan, AMNews staff. Dec. 1, 2008. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Eyes will be on California starting next year, but they won't be > peeking into medical records. > > At least that's Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's hope; in September he > signed into law two bills that put some teeth into patient privacy > rules and give doctors good reason to comply. > > Under the new laws taking effect Jan. 1, 2009, the state has > significantly increased fines not only for the illegal use of medical > records but also for unauthorized access of records. The laws also > open the door for patients to sue doctors when their records are > accessed, even if there is no damage. > > Other states have privacy laws that require notification of a breach, > but the California bills are thought by experts to be the first to > place a strong focus on enforcement. > > Experts predict California's actions will lead to more states > following suit, as well as tougher enforcement of HIPAA privacy and > security rules, which have gone largely unenforced since they took > effect in 2003 and 2005, respectively. > > California law requires hospitals to notify patients within 5 days if > their medical records are inappropriately accessed. > > For physicians, "the idea behind all this is don't wait until the > 500-pound gorilla is pounding on your door," said attorney Peter > MacKoul, president of Sugar Land, Texas-based HIPAA Solution, a > consultancy that helps practices become HIPAA-compliant. "It's called > preventative action." > > About the same time the California governor signed the two patient > privacy bills into law, a report published by the California Health > Dept. found snooping incidents at the UCLA Medical Center were much > worse than initially thought. The study found that since 2003, > hospital workers inappropriately accessed the electronic medical > records of 1,041 patients, including those of California first lady > Maria Shriver. Some of those employees were feeding celebrity > information to the media, the report said. > > Both of the new state laws require that medical facilities safeguard > patient records and implement controls that would prevent not only > malicious theft of patient information but also unauthorized access. > > Under SB 541, if a snooping incident like those at UCLA occurs, the > hospital must notify the patient within five days and if it fails to > do so, fines of $100 per patient per day can be imposed, up to a total > of $250,000. > > Under AB 211, which deals with individual physicians and other health > care professionals, patients can collect damages up to $1,000. And > licensed health care workers who violate the law could receive a civil > penalty of up to $25,000 per violation; any person or entity that uses > records for financial gain could received a penalty up to $250,000. SB > 541 also created the Office of Health Information Integrity, which > will be responsible for the enforcement of the laws. > > The California Medical Assn. initially rejected AB 211 for being too > vague. Amendments were made to allow enforcement officials to consider > the size and complexity of the physician practice when deciding on > remediation for violations. The bill then gained CMA's support. > > Patients in California can collect damages up to $1,000 if their > medical records are inappropriately accessed. > > "It allows some customization to make sure the goal is to educate and > train and make sure the physician can meet the requirement of the > law," said Teresa Kline, associate director for CMA Government > Relations. The CMA issued no opinion on the Senate bill. > > The American Medical Association has not analyzed the California > bills. It has policy supporting patient privacy that instructs > physicians to obtain patient permission before releasing information > to the media or any other unauthorized person not involved with the > care of that patient. > > Privacy experts say many physicians haven't done much beyond drafting > a policy, and enforcement of HIPAA's privacy and security rules has > been virtually nonexistent. Enforcement is the responsibility of the > Office of Civil Rights, which receives no budget for enforcement > activities. > > In an October report to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, > Inspector General Daniel R. Levinson wrote that "CMS had no effective > mechanism to ensure that covered entities were complying with the > HIPAA Security Rule or that [electronic personal health information] > was being adequately protected." > > Richard Cauchi, health program director for the National Conference of > State Legislatures, expects to see federal legislation introduced that > will address these issues, but expects more states to take matters > into their own hands first. The NCSL is a bipartisan research group > that does not take positions on legislative matters. > > "I think there is a possibility for federal laws to change. But there > is a different pace of action for federal laws. Whereas states can > look at something and if there is desire for change .... states can > act quickly and achieve bipartisan consensus in a short period of > time," he said. > > Back to top. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: > > Eye on snooping > > Six reports by the California Dept. of Public Health found snooping at > the University of California, Los Angeles, Medical Center was worse > than first thought. The incidents involve more than 100 employees and > more than 1,000 patients. Summaries are paraphrased from the reports: > > April 4 report stemming from March 17 investigation: An audit found > six employees inappropriately accessed a celebrity's records in > September 2005. The same celebrity was admitted on Jan. 31, and a > total of 55 employees, including eight physicians, inappropriately > accessed the patient's old file from September 2005. Hospital admits > on March 17 that the incidents were not reported to Dept. of Public > Health, as required by state law. > > April 4 report stemming from March 18 investigation: Nineteen hospital > personnel and five medical staff inappropriately accessed a celebrity > record and that of her child between Sept. 14, 2005, and Sept. 15, > 2005. One employee attempted to access inappropriately the files of > the same celebrity on Jan. 1 but instead found the celebrity's > September 2005 file. > > April 28 report stemming from April 3 investigation: An investigation > found one employee accessed the records of 61 patients from July 1, > 2006, to May 21, 2007. Some were celebrities, others were hospital > employees. The offender was authorized to access the files but had no > reason to do so. A co-worker's ID and password were used in more than > half the incidents. The same investigation found 13 other employees > (including three physicians) accessed one celebrity's records between > July 1, 2006, and May 21, 2007. At least one employee accessed records > from home after the patient was released. > > July 3 report stemming from May 16 investigation: Two employees > accessed a celebrity's record in May 2005 and again in November 2005. > Another employee accessed the same celebrity's file 21 times between > Oct. 28, 2004, and Nov. 9, 2004. It was later found the same employee > accessed the files of 939 patients between April 13, 2003, and May 21, > 2007. Three employees looked at the record of a celebrity who was in > the hospital's emergency department on April 18. > > Source: California Dept. of Public Health; (www.cdph.ca.gov) > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 3633 (20081124) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From maxsenges at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 03:54:31 2008 From: maxsenges at gmail.com (Max Senges) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 14:24:31 +0530 Subject: [governance] Re: coordination thread for IBRlers @ IGF In-Reply-To: <4d976d8e0811221931ub4bf7b6k95df05859abc7441@mail.gmail.com> References: <4d976d8e0811141547n1e424dcel98d695b35c802b49@mail.gmail.com> <4d976d8e0811221931ub4bf7b6k95df05859abc7441@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4d976d8e0811240054g17ac1a9co40665faec1360041@mail.gmail.com> Hi Everybody I just arrived in Hyderabad - the airport is really new and nice - and everybody has been super friendly (there is free wifi for 45min when you have a local mobile number so some airport workers allowed me to register with their numbers several times :-) Some info that might be useful: - the Rupee exchange rate was better in dehli than in hyderabad airport (booths are right after the baggage claim) - there are tata indicom booths with one free internet computer in the airport - the conference center is about 1 hour 20 from the aiport and they told me there is a shuttle every 30 min (about 1 hour into the city) - when connecting to the domestic flight at Dehli airport there is a shuttle bus that takes about 45 min to bring you to the domestic terminals ok i am continuing to chennai and delve into an 'instant expert' in indian culture experience for the next couple of days i arrive back in hyderabad on the 1st -- looking forward to a prodcutive IGF I'll be liveblogging @ http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/IGF_2008_India namaste max On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Max Senges wrote: > Hi everybody > > I am boarding to india in 5 min - super excited - these are going to be > some very interesting days leading up to the IGF -- http://auroville.org/-- > http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/bodhidharma/ashram.html > > We are making good progress with the website - I will setup a life blogging > service on the new page so we can share our impressions with the remote > participants - started an event at > http://www.scribblelive.com/Event/IGF_2008_India > > I will integrate the liveblog on our site - it would be great if you would > be motivated to live blog to (for those who want to see what the heck a > livenblog is take a look at > http://www.thewavingcat.com/2008/11/22/barcamp-hamburg-creative-commons-101/where a good friend of mine was liveblogging sessions of a barcamp in > hamburg) > > greetings > max > > > On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Max Senges wrote: > >> Hi - this is a thread to connect IBRlers before and during the IGF >> >> Here is the ning group ginger created >> http://diploig.ning.com/group/internetbillofrights >> >> please feel free to invite other IGF participants who'd like to coordinate >> with us to join the group and/or this thread >> >> for me email is easier, but i agree that it is nice to have public / >> transparent conversation also >> >> I will be in Hyderabad a week before the meeting, so i will check out some >> info on local places, where we can have dinner, meet in the morning etc. >> >> 1) ok so for everybody who is in hyderabad on the 1st of december already >> - let's have dinner >> >> 2) let's meet on the first IGF day in the morning at 8.15am to coordinate >> (some of us have never met in person) >> >> Needless to say that we should all invite people to participate in >> our workshop >> >> 3) let's meet in the afternoon of the second day to coordinate last things >> before the workshops (first Mainstreaming & then IBR) on day three >> >> 4) let's meet on the last day to wrap up and draft a "report" >> >> below is a list of events i select as really interesting: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> day 1 >> >> *09:00 - 10:30 >> * >> 74.Open Forum Council of Europe:"The human rights dimension of Internet >> ... >> >> * >> 16:30 - 18:00* >> Dynamic Coalition: Framework of Principles for the Internet >> >> day 3 >> *11:30 - 13:00 >> *Workshop >> 65: Mainstreaming human rights in the work of the IGF >> *14:30 - 16:00* >> Dynamic Coalition: Internet Bill of Rights >> >> day 4 >> *11:30 - 13:00 >> * >> Workshop 77. Internet for All - Exploring a Rights-based Approach >> >> >> >> >> from my perspective these sound pretty interesting too: >> >> day 1 >> *09:30 - 11:00 >> * >> Workshop 22. Lessons Learned from the Engagement and Facilitation of >> Internet Users into Policy … >> >> day 2 >> >> *11:30 - 13:00* >> Dynamic Coalition: Open Standards >> >> *14:30 - 16:00 >> * >> Workshop 26. Towards a code of good practice on public participation in >> Internet governance - … >> *14:30 - 16:00 >> * >> Workshop 58. Network Neutrality- Examining the Issues and Implications for >> Development >> *16:00 - 17:30 >> * >> Workshop 85. The Transboundary Internet: Jurisdiction, Control and >> Sovereignty >> >> day 3 >> *09:00 - 10:30 >> * >> Workshop 88 The protection of personal data and privacy in the information >> society: towards an … >> *16:00 - 17:30* >> Dynamic Coalition: Access to Knowledge (A2K) >> >> >> day 4 >> *11:30 - 13:00* >> Dynamic Coalition:Privacy >> >> *14:00 - 15:30* >> Dynamic Coalition: Freedom of Expression and the Media >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------- >> >> "I am, You are, We are information" >> Camille de Toledo - Coming of Age at the End >> of History >> >> ------------------------------------------------- >> Dr. Max Senges >> >> www.maxsenges.com >> www.knowledgeentrepreneur.com >> ------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------- > > "I am, You are, We are information" > Camille de Toledo - Coming of Age at the End of > History > > ------------------------------------------------- > Dr. Max Senges > > www.maxsenges.com > www.knowledgeentrepreneur.com > ------------------------------------------------------------ > -- ------------------------------------------------- "I am, You are, We are information" Camille de Toledo - Coming of Age at the End of History ------------------------------------------------- Dr. Max Senges www.maxsenges.com www.knowledgeentrepreneur.com ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 23 05:54:14 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 02:54:14 -0800 Subject: [governance] New "user voice" website for IGF feedback References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023CA28F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> Message-ID: <49293656.4540C079@ix.netcom.com> Milton and all, Problem is that right now the signup and login for http://igf.uservoice.com doesn't work. Milton L Mueller wrote: > As we head to Hyderabad, IGP is launching an online IGF feedback forum > website at http://igf.uservoice.com. The site allows anyone to easily > submit and vote on ideas for improving the IGF. It is bottom-up, > multistakeholder-driven, collaborative effort - so have at it! > Whether ideas are reflect positively or negatively on the IGF, let the > Secretariat hear your voice. > > We are also distributing a paper by Jeremy Malcolm on “Appraising > the Success of the IGF” http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog > > --MM > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Mon Nov 24 04:13:54 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:13:54 +1100 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction In-Reply-To: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> Message-ID: <967A34D39F2742D7BD8A622021EF7DB0@IAN> Dr Jeremy Malcolm, I presume? Congratulations Jeremy on the job, but also on your PhD awarded today. Great stuff! Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeremy Malcolm [mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org] > Sent: 23 November 2008 14:23 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Subject: [governance] Re-introduction > > I have become quiet on this list lately until today, so I thought it > was time for a brief re-introduction. > > My quietness was because where I obtained employment would determine > how closely I could continue to be involved in the IGF. Well, as > you'll have guessed from one of my last messages, that turned out to > be Consumers International - which fits in very well with my continued > involvement. :-) > > So you'll be able to find me at the Consumers International event > during Friday lunchtime, as well as on the panels of the IGC seminar > on the Role and Mandate of the IGF on Saturday morning, and the OECD > seminar on Digital Content Strategies and Policies on Friday > afternoon, and doing a poster presentation at GigaNet. > > Also the Internet Governance Project has just kindly distributed a > paper of mine called "Appraising the Success of the IGF" which you can > find at http://www.internetgovernance.org/pdf/MalcolmIGFReview.pdf. > Comments are welcome as always (but flames to me, not the IGP). > > -- > JEREMY MALCOLM > Project Coordinator > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global > campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in > 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer > movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more > information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.21/1669 - Release Date: > 11/21/2008 9:37 AM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From pbateman.igov at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 04:19:21 2008 From: pbateman.igov at gmail.com (Paddy bateman) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:19:21 +0100 Subject: [governance] New "user voice" website for IGF feedback In-Reply-To: <49293656.4540C079@ix.netcom.com> References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023CA28F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <49293656.4540C079@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <745321aa0811240119m6cf21962td06d7dc5ae412979@mail.gmail.com> signup and login work perfectly On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Jeffrey A. Williams < jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote: > Milton and all, > > Problem is that right now the signup and login for > http://igf.uservoice.com > doesn't work. > > Milton L Mueller wrote: > > > As we head to Hyderabad, IGP is launching an online IGF feedback forum > > website at http://igf.uservoice.com. The site allows anyone to easily > > submit and vote on ideas for improving the IGF. It is bottom-up, > > multistakeholder-driven, collaborative effort - so have at it! > > Whether ideas are reflect positively or negatively on the IGF, let the > > Secretariat hear your voice. > > > > We are also distributing a paper by Jeremy Malcolm on "Appraising > > the Success of the IGF" http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog > > > > --MM > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > =============================================================== > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dogwallah at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 04:31:14 2008 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:31:14 +0300 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction In-Reply-To: <967A34D39F2742D7BD8A622021EF7DB0@IAN> References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <967A34D39F2742D7BD8A622021EF7DB0@IAN> Message-ID: On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Ian Peter wrote: > Dr Jeremy Malcolm, I presume? > > Congratulations Jeremy on the job, but also on your PhD awarded today. Great > stuff! w00t!! Are you the first ever to get a PhD in IG?? -- Cheers, McTim http://stateoftheinternetin.ug ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 05:06:59 2008 From: ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.com (linda misek-falkoff) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 05:06:59 -0500 Subject: [governance] New "user voice" website for IGF feedback In-Reply-To: <745321aa0811240119m6cf21962td06d7dc5ae412979@mail.gmail.com> References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023CA28F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <49293656.4540C079@ix.netcom.com> <745321aa0811240119m6cf21962td06d7dc5ae412979@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45ed74050811240206v31cc052cs7341292b6c4b1056@mail.gmail.com> Same from here ... login worked; plus posted a comment (LindaMF) but did not see it come up, maybe moderated... thanks and best wishes. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Paddy bateman wrote: > signup and login work perfectly > > > > On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Jeffrey A. Williams < > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote: > > > Milton and all, > > > > Problem is that right now the signup and login for > > http://igf.uservoice.com > > doesn't work. > > > > Milton L Mueller wrote: > > > > > As we head to Hyderabad, IGP is launching an online IGF feedback forum > > > website at http://igf.uservoice.com. The site allows anyone to easily > > > submit and vote on ideas for improving the IGF. It is bottom-up, > > > multistakeholder-driven, collaborative effort - so have at it! > > > Whether ideas are reflect positively or negatively on the IGF, let the > > > Secretariat hear your voice. > > > > > > We are also distributing a paper by Jeremy Malcolm on "Appraising > > > the Success of the IGF" http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog > > > > > > --MM > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > > Abraham Lincoln > > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > > =============================================================== > > Updated 1/26/04 > > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeremy at ciroap.org Mon Nov 24 05:47:46 2008 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:47:46 +0800 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction In-Reply-To: References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <967A34D39F2742D7BD8A622021EF7DB0@IAN> Message-ID: On 24/11/2008, at 5:31 PM, McTim wrote: > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Ian Peter > wrote: >> Dr Jeremy Malcolm, I presume? >> >> Congratulations Jeremy on the job, but also on your PhD awarded >> today. Great >> stuff! > > w00t!! > > Are you the first ever to get a PhD in IG?? Many thanks Ian and McTim! I'd be surprised if I was the first - but I'm sure some of the GIGANet people could tell us the answer. -- JEREMY MALCOLM Project Coordinator CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE for Asia Pacific and the Middle East Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From siranush_vardanyan at hotmail.com Mon Nov 24 05:56:59 2008 From: siranush_vardanyan at hotmail.com (Siranush Vardanyan) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:56:59 +0000 Subject: [governance] New "user voice" website for IGF feedback In-Reply-To: <45ed74050811240206v31cc052cs7341292b6c4b1056@mail.gmail.com> References: <7663C7E01D8E094989CA62F0B0D21CD9023CA28F@SUEXCL-02.ad.syr.edu> <49293656.4540C079@ix.netcom.com> <745321aa0811240119m6cf21962td06d7dc5ae412979@mail.gmail.com> <45ed74050811240206v31cc052cs7341292b6c4b1056@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Signup and login space worked well and very quickly, thanks for sharing the link Best Siranush Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 05:06:59 -0500From: ldmisekfalkoff at gmail.comTo: governance at lists.cpsr.org; pbateman.igov at gmail.comCC: linda.falkoff at gmail.comSubject: Re: [governance] New "user voice" website for IGF feedback Same from here ... login worked; plus posted a comment (LindaMF) but did not see it come up, maybe moderated... thanks and best wishes. On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 4:19 AM, Paddy bateman wrote: signup and login work perfectly On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 11:54 AM, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote:> Milton and all,>> Problem is that right now the signup and login for> http://igf.uservoice.com> doesn't work.>> Milton L Mueller wrote:>> > As we head to Hyderabad, IGP is launching an online IGF feedback forum> > website at http://igf.uservoice.com. The site allows anyone to easily> > submit and vote on ideas for improving the IGF. It is bottom-up,> > multistakeholder-driven, collaborative effort - so have at it!> > Whether ideas are reflect positively or negatively on the IGF, let the> > Secretariat hear your voice.> >> > We are also distributing a paper by Jeremy Malcolm on "Appraising> > the Success of the IGF" http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog> >> > --MM> >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------> > ____________________________________________________________> > You received this message as a subscriber on the list:> > governance at lists.cpsr.org> > To be removed from the list, send any message to:> > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org> >> > For all list information and functions, see:> > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance> >>> Regards,>> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!)> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" -> Abraham Lincoln> "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama>> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt>> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B;> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL."> United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947]> ===============================================================> Updated 1/26/04> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS.> div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC.> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> My Phone: 214-244-4827> _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeanette at wzb.eu Mon Nov 24 06:36:15 2008 From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:36:15 +0000 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction In-Reply-To: References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <967A34D39F2742D7BD8A622021EF7DB0@IAN> Message-ID: <492A91AF.60103@wzb.eu> Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > On 24/11/2008, at 5:31 PM, McTim wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Ian Peter >> wrote: >>> Dr Jeremy Malcolm, I presume? >>> >>> Congratulations Jeremy on the job, but also on your PhD awarded >>> today. Great >>> stuff! >> >> w00t!! >> >> Are you the first ever to get a PhD in IG?? No, he is not the first. For example, there is German PhD from 2003 (Volker Leib) and a Swiss from 2004 (Marc Holitscher). jeanette > > > Many thanks Ian and McTim! I'd be surprised if I was the first - but > I'm sure some of the GIGANet people could tell us the answer. > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From anja at itforchange.net Mon Nov 24 06:56:55 2008 From: anja at itforchange.net (Anja) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:26:55 +0530 Subject: [governance] Gender and IG Message-ID: <492A9687.3050205@itforchange.net> Dear all, In the run-up to the IGF, I wanted to share with you a document that was circulated widely in a recent meeting of the Feminist Network on Gender, Development and Information Society Policies (the GDISP Network), of which IT for Change is a member. The meeting took place a the 11^th AWID (Association for Women's Rights in Development) Forum, on of the biggest feminist gatherings in the world. The aim of the meeting was to broadbase the discussions and debates around Internet Governance among varied feminist civil society constituencies, including social movements, in order to stimulate greater feminist engagements with IG fora. Comments on the document are most welcome. Best wishes, Anja -- Dr. Anja Kovacs Senior Research Associate IT for Change Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890 www.ITforChange.net www.IS-Watch.net http://India.IS-Watch.net ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ITfC, Gender and IG, for AWID2008.doc Type: application/msword Size: 122368 bytes Desc: not available URL: From isolatedn at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 10:01:05 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 20:31:05 +0530 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction In-Reply-To: <492A91AF.60103@wzb.eu> References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <967A34D39F2742D7BD8A622021EF7DB0@IAN> <492A91AF.60103@wzb.eu> Message-ID: Hello Dr Jeremy Malcolm, Your Doctoral Thesis at http://www.malcolm.id.au/thesis/ is bound to be a valuable input for us all participating in the Internet Governance process. Congratulations on being awarded a Ph D in Internet Governance for this work. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Jeanette Hofmann wrote: > > > Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > >> On 24/11/2008, at 5:31 PM, McTim wrote: >> >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Ian Peter >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dr Jeremy Malcolm, I presume? >>>> >>>> Congratulations Jeremy on the job, but also on your PhD awarded today. >>>> Great >>>> stuff! >>>> >>> >>> w00t!! >>> >>> Are you the first ever to get a PhD in IG?? >>> >> > No, he is not the first. For example, there is German PhD from 2003 (Volker > Leib) and a Swiss from 2004 (Marc Holitscher). > jeanette > >> >> >> Many thanks Ian and McTim! I'd be surprised if I was the first - but I'm >> sure some of the GIGANet people could tell us the answer. >> >> ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr Mon Nov 24 10:12:44 2008 From: jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr (jlfullsack) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:12:44 +0100 Subject: [governance] ITU and CS : moving forward Message-ID: <8B4761F0381A47CCA6E4B9731932A7B0@PCbureau> Bonjour Parminder, Bill and all I'd just complete my earlier message (see below) on a future ITU reform and CS inclusion. One of the main themes to be addressed among those mentioned in my previous message, is how far Internet issues can be discussed in the specialized ITU bodies such as ITU-T, ITU-R and even ITU-D. When questioning that, we should keep in mind the broad spectrum of IC technology, architecture and network issues that are sussessfully dealt with in the standardisation area. Therefore debating/evaluating about the Internet stuff that could be valuably integrated in the ITU WGs and standardization process could proove adequate. In effect, a part of these issues is aleady dealt with by the ITU (e.g. VoIP, NGN, e-apllications, ...). Of course adding such a work into the ITU activities needs additive resources, especially in financing. This is another issue that governments should tackle with more consistency than up to now at the Administrative Council, and especially during its next Plenipotenntiary conference (2010). I know that a lot of our people are rather reluctant on such a move -a leap for some- from current bodies (mainly IETF, but also other ones such as ICANN) to a multilateral UN agency. But Internet has grown to a broad, global "net of nets", and become for most of CS organizations a "global public good". This deserves that at least its "essential/critical resources" should/could be transferred to the ITU. How and at which extend this could take place is still open for discussion. Especially under the IGF auspices. But, for the sake of this to be discussed objectively, I'd quote the IGC Statement II of its February Meeting in Geneva : " In any case, the variety sought should be more in terms of different points of views, rather than just different stakeholders, because it is possible to gather a panel of different stakeholders with a narrow range of views on a particular subject". And my proposal above is actually a very "particular subject" ! Jean-Louis Fullsack ----- Original Message ----- From: jlfullsack To: governance at lists.cpsr.org ; William Drake Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Dear all Let me express my divine surprise after having read all these messages on the ITU and its long overdue reform. Moreover, I hear from these messages that for some of the mailers this interest goes back to the WSIS. And what’s more some of our prominent fellows even were in discussion with some ITU high ranking staff upon the matter ! Thus, why am I not that enthusiastic about this new approach of CS on this old issue ? Simply because when I expressed my concerns about ITU, both on its neoliberal drifts and on its CS exclusion policy, in our plenaries at the very beginning of WSIS, either I was told that this is’nt on the agenda, or my opinion and concerns were simply ignored. That's why I presented all the statements on the ITU urgent need of reform (note : reform and not a cosmetic revamping!) during the different meetings –including intergouvernemental ones and plenaries- on behalf of my organisation and with the support of some working groups (financing, African diaspora, etc…). You can still read all these statements on our website www.csdptt.org, in French of course, but a few are also in English. This being said, I try to believe in this new interest on the ITU by the CS community and, first of all, I’d thank Parminder for having included me in the “initial group”: at least it will respect a minimum of “cultural/language diversity” (one of our hypes at WSIS and still very topical). However, for me the question isn’t only to be “inside” but “for what to say/to do”? As I mentioned above, there are –besides CS inclusion- a lot of issues at the ITU, and some are very serious. They encompass policy, finance, strategy, but also new matters to be dealt with such as ICT/Tlc equipment design taking in account power consumption, renewable energy sources for feeding equipment, network nodes and terminals or premises, a holistic approach in network architecture design, cross-sectoral synergy and fertilisation, etc ... It also should be mentioned here that Europe (both the Council of Europe and the European Union) intend to set up a “European FGI” and are willing to address issues such as ITU governance and the achievements obtained (if there are …) and to be obtained in the different Action lines. This was discussed during the EuroDig meeting at Strasbourg a month ago, and both Bill and myself agreed to push in this direction. Needless to say that my priorities are here. Nevertheless, this doesn’t exclude my participation to the WG Parminder suggested.. Finally I’d (perhaps) surprise all of you if I tell you that I found Toure’s speech not bad at all ! Perhaps should it be completed by some additional remarks on the responsibilities of the ITU, i.a. in the so-called telecom development, and recall the ITU top officials that the Maitland Report was published in1984. Twenty four years later we are still waiting on the “missing link” for bridging the “digital divide” … And not to be forgotten : ten years after an aggressive neoliberal policy, mostly driven by the ITU, well seconded by the WB! Sorry for my long message and thanks for your interest for having a better and more open ITU, for the sake of DCs particularly. Best regards Jean-Louis Fullsack ----- Original Message ----- From: William Drake To: Parminder Cc: Governance ; jlfullsack ; Fouad Bajwa Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:05 AM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi, Thanks Parminder for the suggestion. It's not obvious to me whether it would be better to start with a small wg (which might be efficient but also could continue the local ghettoization of the issues) or try booting up some caucus-wide engagement (which would rapidly become needed anyway---the WTPF is in the Spring, will have strong governmental engagement, and hence ought to be of at least as much of a priority as an IGF conference). It would also be good to check in with friendly staff and Members to get a clearer sense of where the ITU's review process is and how best to interface with it. My suggestion would be that we put this high on the agenda of the caucus meeting in Hyderabad and think through our approach there. In the meanwhile I'll be back in Geneva next week and will see if I can fill in the background a bit more. Best, Bill On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Parminder wrote: Bill and Jean-Louis, We have been seeing some degree of concern over the lack of CS engagement with the increasing role that ITU plays in IG and in shaping the future of the Internet. Of course some of us have been expressing this concern for much longer. I remember that when I heard a passionate intervention of Bill’s during a CS meeting convened by APC in September on the sidelines of the MAG consultations, it set me thinking even more about how to get IGC to engage with the ITU. Later there were some more emails on the issue of IP trace-backs work being done by the ITU – and I remember one by Fouad – seeking a IGC/ CS stand on the issue. I propose that we shape for more active engagement with ITU, and for this we set up an IGF standing working group on ITU engagement, or whatever. This group can feed into IGC issues of greatest current importance, and those which are soon forthcoming, apart from suggesting a longer horizon engagement, and also perhaps their views on it, and such. Giving some clear shape to our possible engagements with the ITU is also important in view of the forthcoming ITU’s “World Telecommunications Policy Forum” early next year, which seems to be poised to get into some very significant issues. The same group could look into issue of structuring CS engagement with the ITU. Wont be bad if we try to propose some such structure on behalf of IGC as an entity, and see their response. I propose that Bill, Jean-Louis and Fouad be the initial members of this group, and whoever else wants to can opt-in. Since among these three, Bill has had the longest engagement with this group, I suggest he convenes the group on IGC’s behalf. Others may give their comments. Thanks. Parminder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:40 AM To: jlfullsack Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi Jean-Louis, Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was emailing or something at the time. But I agree with you that the ITU/CS interface, or rather the lack thereof, urgently needs attention, especially since there is at least nominally a review underway in ITU and it'd be good to be useful to the friendly governments that asked for it. I've raised the matter a number of times on gov list over the years, suggested interested people collaborate, but never managed to stir much interest in this or the ITU more generally. If Toure's rather provocative speech in Cairo has changed the landscape and people are now concerned about what governments, telcos et al are up to in ITU, great. I'd of course be happy to talk to you about this stuff, but I don't think the two of us alone can do anything that would matter to ITU, the only thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. Best, Bill On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: Hi Bill I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. All the best Jean-Louis Fullsack Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des télécommunications' which best reflects my own experience with, and opinion about, the ITU ----- Original Message ----- From: William Drake To: Governance Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi, The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. Best, BD On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other than at IGFs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr Mon Nov 24 10:16:05 2008 From: jlfullsack at wanadoo.fr (jlfullsack) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:16:05 +0100 Subject: [governance] Fw: ITU and CS : moving forward Message-ID: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> sorry for reposting; Bill's address was errored ----- Original Message ----- From: jlfullsack To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Cc: parminder:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 4:12 PM Subject: ITU and CS : moving forward Bonjour Parminder, Bill and all I'd just complete my earlier message (see below) on a future ITU reform and CS inclusion. One of the main themes to be addressed among those mentioned in my previous message, is how far Internet issues can be discussed in the specialized ITU bodies such as ITU-T, ITU-R and even ITU-D. When questioning that, we should keep in mind the broad spectrum of IC technology, architecture and network issues that are sussessfully dealt with in the standardisation area. Therefore debating/evaluating about the Internet stuff that could be valuably integrated in the ITU WGs and standardization process could proove adequate. In effect, a part of these issues is aleady dealt with by the ITU (e.g. VoIP, NGN, e-apllications, ...). Of course adding such a work into the ITU activities needs additive resources, especially in financing. This is another issue that governments should tackle with more consistency than up to now at the Administrative Council, and especially during its next Plenipotenntiary conference (2010). I know that a lot of our people are rather reluctant on such a move -a leap for some- from current bodies (mainly IETF, but also other ones such as ICANN) to a multilateral UN agency. But Internet has grown to a broad, global "net of nets", and become for most of CS organizations a "global public good". This deserves that at least its "essential/critical resources" should/could be transferred to the ITU. How and at which extend this could take place is still open for discussion. Especially under the IGF auspices. But, for the sake of this to be discussed objectively, I'd quote the IGC Statement II of its February Meeting in Geneva : " In any case, the variety sought should be more in terms of different points of views, rather than just different stakeholders, because it is possible to gather a panel of different stakeholders with a narrow range of views on a particular subject". And my proposal above is actually a very "particular subject" ! Jean-Louis Fullsack ----- Original Message ----- From: jlfullsack To: governance at lists.cpsr.org ; William Drake Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Dear all Let me express my divine surprise after having read all these messages on the ITU and its long overdue reform. Moreover, I hear from these messages that for some of the mailers this interest goes back to the WSIS. And what’s more some of our prominent fellows even were in discussion with some ITU high ranking staff upon the matter ! Thus, why am I not that enthusiastic about this new approach of CS on this old issue ? Simply because when I expressed my concerns about ITU, both on its neoliberal drifts and on its CS exclusion policy, in our plenaries at the very beginning of WSIS, either I was told that this is’nt on the agenda, or my opinion and concerns were simply ignored. That's why I presented all the statements on the ITU urgent need of reform (note : reform and not a cosmetic revamping!) during the different meetings –including intergouvernemental ones and plenaries- on behalf of my organisation and with the support of some working groups (financing, African diaspora, etc…). You can still read all these statements on our website www.csdptt.org, in French of course, but a few are also in English. This being said, I try to believe in this new interest on the ITU by the CS community and, first of all, I’d thank Parminder for having included me in the “initial group”: at least it will respect a minimum of “cultural/language diversity” (one of our hypes at WSIS and still very topical). However, for me the question isn’t only to be “inside” but “for what to say/to do”? As I mentioned above, there are –besides CS inclusion- a lot of issues at the ITU, and some are very serious. They encompass policy, finance, strategy, but also new matters to be dealt with such as ICT/Tlc equipment design taking in account power consumption, renewable energy sources for feeding equipment, network nodes and terminals or premises, a holistic approach in network architecture design, cross-sectoral synergy and fertilisation, etc ... It also should be mentioned here that Europe (both the Council of Europe and the European Union) intend to set up a “European FGI” and are willing to address issues such as ITU governance and the achievements obtained (if there are …) and to be obtained in the different Action lines. This was discussed during the EuroDig meeting at Strasbourg a month ago, and both Bill and myself agreed to push in this direction. Needless to say that my priorities are here. Nevertheless, this doesn’t exclude my participation to the WG Parminder suggested.. Finally I’d (perhaps) surprise all of you if I tell you that I found Toure’s speech not bad at all ! Perhaps should it be completed by some additional remarks on the responsibilities of the ITU, i.a. in the so-called telecom development, and recall the ITU top officials that the Maitland Report was published in1984. Twenty four years later we are still waiting on the “missing link” for bridging the “digital divide” … And not to be forgotten : ten years after an aggressive neoliberal policy, mostly driven by the ITU, well seconded by the WB! Sorry for my long message and thanks for your interest for having a better and more open ITU, for the sake of DCs particularly. Best regards Jean-Louis Fullsack ----- Original Message ----- From: William Drake To: Parminder Cc: Governance ; jlfullsack ; Fouad Bajwa Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 3:05 AM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi, Thanks Parminder for the suggestion. It's not obvious to me whether it would be better to start with a small wg (which might be efficient but also could continue the local ghettoization of the issues) or try booting up some caucus-wide engagement (which would rapidly become needed anyway---the WTPF is in the Spring, will have strong governmental engagement, and hence ought to be of at least as much of a priority as an IGF conference). It would also be good to check in with friendly staff and Members to get a clearer sense of where the ITU's review process is and how best to interface with it. My suggestion would be that we put this high on the agenda of the caucus meeting in Hyderabad and think through our approach there. In the meanwhile I'll be back in Geneva next week and will see if I can fill in the background a bit more. Best, Bill On Nov 19, 2008, at 12:39 PM, Parminder wrote: Bill and Jean-Louis, We have been seeing some degree of concern over the lack of CS engagement with the increasing role that ITU plays in IG and in shaping the future of the Internet. Of course some of us have been expressing this concern for much longer. I remember that when I heard a passionate intervention of Bill’s during a CS meeting convened by APC in September on the sidelines of the MAG consultations, it set me thinking even more about how to get IGC to engage with the ITU. Later there were some more emails on the issue of IP trace-backs work being done by the ITU – and I remember one by Fouad – seeking a IGC/ CS stand on the issue. I propose that we shape for more active engagement with ITU, and for this we set up an IGF standing working group on ITU engagement, or whatever. This group can feed into IGC issues of greatest current importance, and those which are soon forthcoming, apart from suggesting a longer horizon engagement, and also perhaps their views on it, and such. Giving some clear shape to our possible engagements with the ITU is also important in view of the forthcoming ITU’s “World Telecommunications Policy Forum” early next year, which seems to be poised to get into some very significant issues. The same group could look into issue of structuring CS engagement with the ITU. Wont be bad if we try to propose some such structure on behalf of IGC as an entity, and see their response. I propose that Bill, Jean-Louis and Fouad be the initial members of this group, and whoever else wants to can opt-in. Since among these three, Bill has had the longest engagement with this group, I suggest he convenes the group on IGC’s behalf. Others may give their comments. Thanks. Parminder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William Drake [mailto:william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch] Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 6:40 AM To: jlfullsack Cc: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi Jean-Louis, Sorry, I don't recall your comments at Eurodig, maybe I was emailing or something at the time. But I agree with you that the ITU/CS interface, or rather the lack thereof, urgently needs attention, especially since there is at least nominally a review underway in ITU and it'd be good to be useful to the friendly governments that asked for it. I've raised the matter a number of times on gov list over the years, suggested interested people collaborate, but never managed to stir much interest in this or the ITU more generally. If Toure's rather provocative speech in Cairo has changed the landscape and people are now concerned about what governments, telcos et al are up to in ITU, great. I'd of course be happy to talk to you about this stuff, but I don't think the two of us alone can do anything that would matter to ITU, the only thing that might resonate is a collective engagement. Best, Bill On Nov 18, 2008, at 10:12 PM, jlfullsack wrote: Hi Bill I beg your pardon for butting in with a personel reminding : During the the Eurodig session at Strasbourg you mentioned some concerns about the ITU, especially in the field of CS friendliness or inclusion. During the following discussion I expressed my readiness to join you for looking more closely on different issues regarding CS participation in its working and other hot issues concerning this UN agency, as to draw up some recommendations for the future EURDIC ou whichever MS discussion on IG or general international institutions' governance. Would you be so kind for answering if you agree on this personal proposal. It's possible for me to stay a couple of days in the Geneva area. All the best Jean-Louis Fullsack Have a look to our website www.csdptt.org where you'll find an article (in french) entitled 'L'UIT : la vieille dame des télécommunications' which best reflects my own experience with, and opinion about, the ITU ----- Original Message ----- From: William Drake To: Governance Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi, The 2nd sounds right, we should meet as early as possible in the week, but after GigaNet would be problematic. Best, BD On Nov 9, 2008, at 4:08 PM, Parminder wrote: There is a giganet business meeting on 1st evening 17 to 1830 hours. Can we then agree to meet on 2nd – 1730 to 1930. Know it is a bit late but there isn’t any other opportunity IGC gets to meet, other than at IGFs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Mon Nov 24 11:25:32 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:25:32 +0100 Subject: [governance] GNI References: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Does somebody know this project called "Global Network Initiative"? What is behind this? Is it linked to IGF/ICANN issues? http://www.globalnetworkinitiative.org/index.php Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Mon Nov 24 11:29:44 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 17:29:44 +0100 Subject: [governance] European Parliament References: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426536@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Dear list Elisabeth Markort from the European Commission forwarded me the invitation of the European delegation which includes also a number of members of the European Parliament, for a meeting with civil society in Hyderabad at 4. Dezember, 13:00. Room will be announced. We had such meetings in Athens and Rio and it was very useful. Please reserve the date in your calendar. Wolfgang ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From correia.rui at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 11:35:33 2008 From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:35:33 +0200 Subject: [governance] GNI In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: Hi Wolfgang As the CPJ correspondent for Southern Africa + Lusophone Africa, herewith the official CPJ text on the GNI: " Protecting journalists in cyberspace When Chinese journalist Shi Tao was sentenced in 2004 to 10 years in prison for sending pro-democracy information using his personal Yahoo! e-mail account, CPJ became concerned, along with other human rights organizations, about the responsibilities of communications and information companies. Shi's case became the catalyst for human rights groups, academics, socially responsible investors, and the communications and information industries to work together to establish a set of guidelines to protect and advance the rights of freedom of expression and privacy worldwide. To that end, CPJ was proud to be a part of the Global Network Initiativelaunched last month. CPJ joined a coalition of Internet companies, including Yahoo!, Microsoft, and Google, as well as academics, investors, and other human rights groups, to draw up a set of principles, or guidelines to protect privacy and free expression. Companies in the communication and information industries that sign on commit to following these guidelines when doing business in countries that monitor or censor the press. Robert Mahoney discusses CPJ's participation in the Global Network Initiative on the CPJ Blog ." Regards, Rui On 24/11/2008, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang < wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de> wrote: > > Does somebody know this project called "Global Network Initiative"? What is > behind this? Is it linked to IGF/ICANN issues? > > http://www.globalnetworkinitiative.org/index.php > > Wolfgang > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- ________________________________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant 2 Cutten St Horison Roodepoort-Johannesburg, South Africa Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336 Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838 _______________ áâãçéêíóôõúç -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From correia.rui at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 11:49:18 2008 From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:49:18 +0200 Subject: [governance] Obama and the undoing of the Bush invasions of privacy et alia Message-ID: "Americans have watched in horror as President Bush has trampled on the Bill of Rights and the balance of power. The list of abuses that President-elect Barack Obama must address is long: once again require the government to get warrants to eavesdrop on Americans; undo scores of executive orders and bill-signing statements that have undermined the powers of Congress; strip out the unnecessary invasions of privacy embedded in the Patriot Act; block new F.B.I. investigative guidelines straight out of J. Edgar Hoover's playbook". http://www.truthout.org/112308D --------------------- I could be wrong, but I have the distinct recollection of reading widespread complaints about the American mainstream news media doing nothing while Bush rode roughshod over the world. Now the New York Times comes up with this piece? Did I miss something? Or is it the famous editorial flexibility, convenience, adjustability and expediency line? Hope I remember wrong! Regards, Rui -- ________________________________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant 2 Cutten St Horison Roodepoort-Johannesburg, South Africa Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336 Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838 _______________ áâãçéêíóôõúç -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From correia.rui at gmail.com Mon Nov 24 12:02:33 2008 From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:02:33 +0200 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction In-Reply-To: References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <4927ECC5.9CE8F3F@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: Dear Jeremy You can reply to the whole list if Jeffrey undertakes to do the same with some information about the organisation that he has dreamt up in his head. Welcome back, Regards, Rui On 23/11/2008, Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > > On 22/11/2008, at 7:28 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: > > Jeremy and all, >> > > > I'm going to reply to this off-list, on the assumption that nobody else is > sufficiently concerned about Jeffrey's questions to justify the list > traffic. Reply to me personally if the assumption is misplaced. > > -- > JEREMY MALCOLM > Project Coordinator > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global campaigning > voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in 115 countries, we > are building a powerful international consumer movement to help protect and > empower consumers everywhere. For more information, visit > www.consumersinternational.org. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- ________________________________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant 2 Cutten St Horison Roodepoort-Johannesburg, South Africa Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336 Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838 _______________ áâãçéêíóôõúç -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de Mon Nov 24 12:44:50 2008 From: bendrath at zedat.fu-berlin.de (Ralf Bendrath) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:44:50 +0100 Subject: [governance] GNI In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <492AE812.4070409@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Kleinwächter schrieb: > Does somebody know this project called "Global Network Initiative"? > What is behind this? Is it linked to IGF/ICANN issues? > > http://www.globalnetworkinitiative.org/index.php This is a "classical" voluntary CSR mechanism and also seems to be (viewed as) a self-regulatory alternative to the more law-based approach of having a Global Online Freedom Act (GOFA) or something similar. EDRi decided not to become involved in GNI, for similar reasons as Reporters without borders had to not endorse it, see below. As far as I've heard, even some of the GNI members like EFF still have reservations. Officially, this is not linked to IGF/ICANN. But a number of the people who were involved in this will be in Hyderabad, I guess. Best, Ralf Why Reporters Without Borders is not endorsing the Global Principles on Freedom of Expression and Privacy for ICT companies operating in Internet-restricting countries Reporters Without Borders welcomes the adoption of the Global Principles on Freedom of Expression and Privacy as a first step towards ICT companies’ recognition of the importance of free expression while operating in Internet-restricting countries. The international press freedom organization recognizes the important work done by the participants of this multi-stakeholder initiative that gathers companies, academics, investors and NGOs. Nevertheless, after participating in the discussions for almost two years, Reporters Without Borders decided last September to withdraw from the discussions and to not endorse those principles. The organization believes these principles are one step in the right direction, but they do not go far enough to provide a sufficient protection to freedom of expression on the Internet. "Under these principles, another Shi Tao case is still possible" stated Reporters Without Borders referring to the jailed Chinese reporter whose verdict revealed that Yahoo ! gave some personal identifying information to the Chinese authorities. "We believe that, as of today, the best option to prevent IT companies from being forced to collaborate with the Web-censors in repressive countries remains to provide a legal framework for companies willing to resist governments’ requests that violate the international free speech standards, as the Global Online Freedom Act, introduced by Representative Chris Smith does for American IT firms", commented the press freedom organization. "We will follow the implementation of the principles and are willing to continue to take part in this interesting collaboration and exchange of ideas, but in a different capacity. We stand ready to be, as a third party, of any assistance to the Initiative should our expertise or input be needed. We have been monitoring the free flow of online information for years and we will continue to denounce the obstacle to online free speech", added Reporters Without Borders. Reporters Without Borders is concerned by several loopholes and weak language on the central points that may threaten the very implementation of these principles and justify the status quo. It also regrets the fact that some sensitive issues related to the monitoring process remain yet to be addressed. Here is an overview of the organization’s main concerns: - 1 - Local law remains the reference even if it violates international human rights standards. Thus, participating companies will comply with repressive regimes who have at their disposal an arsenal of legal provisions aimed at silencing dissidents. - 2 - The extent to which companies are expected to challenge governments’ requests remains unclear. Requests in writing are sought but not mandatory. - 3 - Companies could still enter into business relationships (joint ventures, mergers) with local partners that do not follow the principles, then bypass the restrictions imposed by the principles and blame the local entity (such as Alibaba for Yahoo!) in case of violations of freedom of expression or collaboration for the arrest of dissidents. - 4 - Disclosure to users and transparency regarding the type of personal information retained by ITC companies’ remains unsatisfactory.. Users have no assurances that companies will try to minimize data collection, nor do they know how long this data will be saved. - 5 - The assessors’ independence and impartiality as well as the extent to which companies’ will provide them with the necessary information to monitor developments remains uncertain. Reporters Without Borders has supported the Global Online Freedom Act (GOFA) since its birth. Introduced by Representative Chris Smith (R-NJ) in February 2006, it would protect American IT companies from being forced to collaborate with repressive regimes. The Act would prevent repressive governments - those that punish dissidents and human rights activists who exercise their right to online free expression - from accessing personal data through US companies. The bill would ban companies from locating the servers containing this data and from providing information that identifies users, except in cases in which the law is being legitimately applied, to be decided by the US justice department. The US companies would also have to act transparently and transmit information about the type of censorship they apply to an interagency-staffed Office of Global Internet Freedom, which would have the job of defining US government policy for the promotion of the free flow of online information and monitoring violations. A feasibility study of technologies and equipment’s export control would also be made. The bill also promotes the idea of a voluntary code of conduct to be established for companies working in countries with repressive regimes. GOFA was approved by the House’s Foreign Affairs Committee in October 2007 and is now awaiting a floor vote. In July 2008, MEP Jules Maaten, initiated the European Global Online Freedom Act (EU GOFA), which was drafted out of the American GOFA, and whose goal is to protect European ICT firms doing business with répressive regimes. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Mon Nov 24 13:07:27 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:07:27 +0100 Subject: [governance] Re: GNI In-Reply-To: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> References: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <87B5A897-DA25-4FAA-979F-1C2F92F29BAA@graduateinstitute.ch> It's a CDT-led thing, heavily US-oriented, so no I wouldn't expect that a formal link to IGF or ICANN is a priority. Probably more focused on individual countries than collective global governance frameworks. BD On Nov 24, 2008, at 5:25 PM, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > Does somebody know this project called "Global Network Initiative"? > What is behind this? Is it linked to IGF/ICANN issues? > > http://www.globalnetworkinitiative.org/index.php > > Wolfgang *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch *********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Mon Nov 24 15:26:28 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 07:26:28 +1100 Subject: [governance] Call for Nominations for IGC Co-coordinator In-Reply-To: <320534A555BF4A0D8AACEC6D05F96F5C@IAN> Message-ID: Folks, Nominations are still open for the role of IGC Co-coordinator to replace Parminder, whose extended term expires at the end of IGF Hyderabad. Please give this serious thought so we have the best field possible for the election which will be held as soon as is practicable after December 8 when nominations close. This will be a particularly important couple of years for us, as the new co-oordinator will see us through till the end of the IGF mandate. Candidates to date are Sivasubramanian Muthusamy Asif Kabani I will announce further candidates as they become available. Please nominate by email reply to me personally - self nominations or third party nominations are fine. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 23 22:58:54 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 19:58:54 -0800 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <967A34D39F2742D7BD8A622021EF7DB0@IAN> Message-ID: <492A267E.48EE2944@ix.netcom.com> Jeremy and all, Unfortunately consumersinternational.org doesn't represent users or user-stakeholders but rather represents organizations. Perhaps some day that paradign will change, and in an Obama administration I am sure of it. At that point, than consumers/users.user-stakeholders will be able to actually be much more fully and accurately recognized and far more positive progress will be realized accordingly. Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > On 24/11/2008, at 5:31 PM, McTim wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Ian Peter > > wrote: > >> Dr Jeremy Malcolm, I presume? > >> > >> Congratulations Jeremy on the job, but also on your PhD awarded > >> today. Great > >> stuff! > > > > w00t!! > > > > Are you the first ever to get a PhD in IG?? > > Many thanks Ian and McTim! I'd be surprised if I was the first - but > I'm sure some of the GIGANet people could tell us the answer. > > -- > JEREMY MALCOLM > Project Coordinator > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global > campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in > 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer > movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more > information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 23 23:01:26 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:01:26 -0800 Subject: [governance] Gender and IG References: <492A9687.3050205@itforchange.net> Message-ID: <492A2715.50BB8345@ix.netcom.com> Anja and all, Thank you Anja. Debbie, maybe you could provide some input here? Anja wrote: > Dear all, > > In the run-up to the IGF, I wanted to share with you a document that was > circulated widely in a recent meeting of the Feminist Network on Gender, > Development and Information Society Policies (the GDISP Network), of > which IT for Change is a member. The meeting took place a the 11^th AWID > (Association for Women's Rights in Development) Forum, on of the biggest > feminist gatherings in the world. The aim of the meeting was to > broadbase the discussions and debates around Internet Governance among > varied feminist civil society constituencies, including social > movements, in order to stimulate greater feminist engagements with IG fora. > > Comments on the document are most welcome. > > Best wishes, > > Anja > > -- > Dr. Anja Kovacs > Senior Research Associate > > IT for Change > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities > Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890 > > www.ITforChange.net > www.IS-Watch.net > http://India.IS-Watch.net > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: ITfC, Gender and IG, for AWID2008.doc > ITfC, Gender and IG, for AWID2008.doc Type: WINWORD File (application/msword) > Encoding: base64 Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 23 23:29:33 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:29:33 -0800 Subject: [governance] GNI References: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <492A2DAD.5AE9549E@ix.netcom.com> Wolfgang and all, First I've heard of them. One thing for sure, much like many other social Eng. groups with long domain names, their DNS is grossly mis configured, and as such demonstrate their lack of respect for whom they purport to represent. Further in this case, they are also a blacklisted spammer as well, see: http://member.dnsstuff.com/tools/dnslite.php?r=homepage&domain=globalnetworkinitiative.org I refer to these orgs as wana-be, international social groups looking for whatever funding they can scavenge for dubious purposes. Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > Does somebody know this project called "Global Network Initiative"? What is behind this? Is it linked to IGF/ICANN issues? > > http://www.globalnetworkinitiative.org/index.php > > Wolfgang > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 23 23:34:09 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:34:09 -0800 Subject: [governance] Re-introduction References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <4927ECC5.9CE8F3F@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <492A2EC0.49A994BC@ix.netcom.com> Rui and all, LOL! Dremt up? That's a laugh! We've been around sense 1998. Where have you or Jeremy been. In purgatory? Rui Correia wrote: > Dear Jeremy > > You can reply to the whole list if Jeffrey undertakes to do the same > with some information about the organisation that he has dreamt up in > his head. > > Welcome back, > > Regards, > > Rui > On 23/11/2008, Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > > On 22/11/2008, at 7:28 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: > > > Jeremy and all, > > I'm going to reply to this off-list, on the assumption that > nobody else is sufficiently concerned about Jeffrey's > questions to justify the list traffic. Reply to me > personally if the assumption is misplaced. > > -- > JEREMY MALCOLM > Project Coordinator > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global > campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member > organisations in 115 countries, we are building a powerful > international consumer movement to help protect and empower > consumers everywhere. For more information, visit > www.consumersinternational.org. > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists..cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > -- > ________________________________________________ > > > Rui Correia > Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant > 2 Cutten St > Horison > Roodepoort-Johannesburg, > South Africa > Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336 > Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838 > _______________ > áâãçéêíóôõúç > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Sun Nov 23 23:49:37 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:49:37 -0800 Subject: [governance] Gender and IG References: <492A9687.3050205@itforchange.net> <492A2715.50BB8345@ix.netcom.com> <019d01c94ea4$91b5bea0$b5213be0$@org> Message-ID: <492A3261.A90608D9@ix.netcom.com> Debbie, Anja and all, It's Anja's attachment, so she will need to re-send it as an attachment. Sorry my response including you Debbie, didn't keep the attachment. If Anja is unable or unwilling to re-send, let me know I will recapture it and send it off list for your review. As this document which you didn't get Debbie is largely impacting on womens issues and with health implications, I think your input would as a highly respected individual and professional in that area, would be VERY helpful. Of course my opinion in that I am male, regarding women's input is essential in the IG and any internet governance issues and we as men, wheather we admit it or not, NEED that input! But as many women know, or at least suspect, their input may be sought, but often times only as token input. For me, that attitude is not realistic and particularly short sighted at a minimum. Deborah Peel wrote: > Jeff, Anja, and all: > > I'd love to read it, but I don't think I got it as an attachment. > > Jeff or Anja, could you send it as an attachment? > > Thx > deb > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 10:01 PM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Deborah Peel, MD > Cc: Anja > Subject: Re: [governance] Gender and IG > > Anja and all, > > Thank you Anja. > > Debbie, maybe you could provide some input here? > > Anja wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > In the run-up to the IGF, I wanted to share with you a document that was > > circulated widely in a recent meeting of the Feminist Network on Gender, > > Development and Information Society Policies (the GDISP Network), of > > which IT for Change is a member. The meeting took place a the 11^th AWID > > (Association for Women's Rights in Development) Forum, on of the biggest > > feminist gatherings in the world. The aim of the meeting was to > > broadbase the discussions and debates around Internet Governance among > > varied feminist civil society constituencies, including social > > movements, in order to stimulate greater feminist engagements with IG > fora. > > > > Comments on the document are most welcome. > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Anja > > > > -- > > Dr. Anja Kovacs > > Senior Research Associate > > > > IT for Change > > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities > > Tel: (00-91-80) 2665 4134, 2653 6890 > > > > www.ITforChange.net > > www.IS-Watch.net > > http://India.IS-Watch.net > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Name: ITfC, Gender and IG, for > AWID2008.doc > > ITfC, Gender and IG, for AWID2008.doc Type: WINWORD File > (application/msword) > > Encoding: base64 > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > =============================================================== > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature > database 3637 (20081124) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeremy at ciroap.org Tue Nov 25 00:33:01 2008 From: jeremy at ciroap.org (Jeremy Malcolm) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 13:33:01 +0800 Subject: [governance] GNI In-Reply-To: <492AE812.4070409@zedat.fu-berlin.de> References: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <492AE812.4070409@zedat.fu-berlin.de> Message-ID: <4789AC7F-435B-4832-ADF8-78C4C634CB87@ciroap.org> On 25/11/2008, at 1:44 AM, Ralf Bendrath wrote: > This is a "classical" voluntary CSR mechanism and also seems to be > (viewed > as) a self-regulatory alternative to the more law-based approach of > having > a Global Online Freedom Act (GOFA) or something similar. > > EDRi decided not to become involved in GNI, for similar reasons as > Reporters without borders had to not endorse it, see below. As far > as I've > heard, even some of the GNI members like EFF still have reservations. The other problem that I have with GNI is that because it (quite deliberately) excludes governments (save for a UN observer), it limits its potential to become widely authoritative, at least in the short term. Much the same problem beset every previous effort at a non- governmental Internet policy forum (such as ISOC's Internet Societal Task Force). God knows, if we didn't have to suffer the presence of governments in the IGF, why would we? ;-) In principle a better approach for GNI would have been to work within the framework of the IGF - though the quite obvious reason why they didn't is that the IGF is in no manner ready to host this kind of initiative, because of its phobia of making recommendations. -- JEREMY MALCOLM Project Coordinator CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE for Asia Pacific and the Middle East Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 24 04:51:05 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 01:51:05 -0800 Subject: [governance] GNI References: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <492AE812.4070409@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4789AC7F-435B-4832-ADF8-78C4C634CB87@ciroap.org> Message-ID: <492A7909.A533CC47@ix.netcom.com> Jeremy and all, Whether we like it or not, governments are involved in Internet Governance, and shall be for the foreseeable future. Sure many if not most governments are far behind the technology curve, especially where security and privacy issues are concerned. None the less to deny them a seat at the table is never going to work on a global basis, and voluntary non-government policies have not to date worked or even been a tiny bit effective. So get over it as far a governments are concerned. They are a significant part of the solution as well as part of the problem. Ergo working in a positive direction in an inclusive way with governments in IT governance is to everyone's advantage. Just say and think, YES WE CAN! >:) Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > On 25/11/2008, at 1:44 AM, Ralf Bendrath wrote: > > > This is a "classical" voluntary CSR mechanism and also seems to be > > (viewed > > as) a self-regulatory alternative to the more law-based approach of > > having > > a Global Online Freedom Act (GOFA) or something similar. > > > > EDRi decided not to become involved in GNI, for similar reasons as > > Reporters without borders had to not endorse it, see below. As far > > as I've > > heard, even some of the GNI members like EFF still have reservations. > > The other problem that I have with GNI is that because it (quite > deliberately) excludes governments (save for a UN observer), it limits > its potential to become widely authoritative, at least in the short > term. > > Much the same problem beset every previous effort at a non- > governmental Internet policy forum (such as ISOC's Internet Societal > Task Force). God knows, if we didn't have to suffer the presence of > governments in the IGF, why would we? ;-) > > In principle a better approach for GNI would have been to work within > the framework of the IGF - though the quite obvious reason why they > didn't is that the IGF is in no manner ready to host this kind of > initiative, because of its phobia of making recommendations. > > -- > JEREMY MALCOLM > Project Coordinator > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global > campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in > 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer > movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more > information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de Tue Nov 25 03:10:48 2008 From: wolfgang.kleinwaechter at medienkomm.uni-halle.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Kleinw=E4chter=2C_Wolfgang?=) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:10:48 +0100 Subject: SV: [governance] Re-introduction References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <967A34D39F2742D7BD8A622021EF7DB0@IAN> <492A267E.48EE2944@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426540@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Jeff could yopu go back to nore more than 5 postings per day? w ________________________________ Fra: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com] Sendt: ma 24-11-2008 04:58 Til: governance at lists.cpsr.org Emne: Re: [governance] Re-introduction Jeremy and all, Unfortunately consumersinternational.org doesn't represent users or user-stakeholders but rather represents organizations. Perhaps some day that paradign will change, and in an Obama administration I am sure of it. At that point, than consumers/users.user-stakeholders will be able to actually be much more fully and accurately recognized and far more positive progress will be realized accordingly. Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > On 24/11/2008, at 5:31 PM, McTim wrote: > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Ian Peter > > wrote: > >> Dr Jeremy Malcolm, I presume? > >> > >> Congratulations Jeremy on the job, but also on your PhD awarded > >> today. Great > >> stuff! > > > > w00t!! > > > > Are you the first ever to get a PhD in IG?? > > Many thanks Ian and McTim! I'd be surprised if I was the first - but > I'm sure some of the GIGANet people could tell us the answer. > > -- > JEREMY MALCOLM > Project Coordinator > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global > campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in > 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer > movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more > information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Mon Nov 24 08:00:18 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 05:00:18 -0800 Subject: SV: [governance] Re-introduction References: <02A2C8B0-4369-46DA-8C75-70D12B2CB2B1@ciroap.org> <967A34D39F2742D7BD8A622021EF7DB0@IAN> <492A267E.48EE2944@ix.netcom.com> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426540@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> Message-ID: <492AA562.8B1D5BB4@ix.netcom.com> Wolfgang and all, I only posted one today, this will be my second. Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote: > Jeff could yopu go back to nore more than 5 postings per day? > > w > > > ________________________________ > > Fra: Jeffrey A. Williams [mailto:jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com] > Sendt: ma 24-11-2008 04:58 > Til: governance at lists.cpsr.org > Emne: Re: [governance] Re-introduction > > Jeremy and all, > > Unfortunately consumersinternational.org doesn't represent users > or user-stakeholders but rather represents organizations. Perhaps > some day that paradign will change, and in an Obama administration > I am sure of it. At that point, than consumers/users.user-stakeholders > will be able to actually be much more fully and accurately recognized > and far more positive progress will be realized accordingly. > > Jeremy Malcolm wrote: > > > On 24/11/2008, at 5:31 PM, McTim wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Ian Peter > > > wrote: > > >> Dr Jeremy Malcolm, I presume? > > >> > > >> Congratulations Jeremy on the job, but also on your PhD awarded > > >> today. Great > > >> stuff! > > > > > > w00t!! > > > > > > Are you the first ever to get a PhD in IG?? > > > > Many thanks Ian and McTim! I'd be surprised if I was the first - but > > I'm sure some of the GIGANet people could tell us the answer. > > > > -- > > JEREMY MALCOLM > > Project Coordinator > > CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE > > for Asia Pacific and the Middle East > > > > Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global > > campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in > > 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer > > movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more > > information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > =============================================================== > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From lmcknigh at syr.edu Tue Nov 25 09:02:17 2008 From: lmcknigh at syr.edu (Lee W McKnight) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:02:17 -0500 Subject: [governance] GNI References: <8189490D0BD34EA0B03FB379FC71AF84@PCbureau> <2DA93620FC07494C926D60C8E3C2F1A8426534@server1.medienkomm.uni-halle.de> <492AE812.4070409@zedat.fu-berlin.de> <4789AC7F-435B-4832-ADF8-78C4C634CB87@ciroap.org> Message-ID: <63EEA1034C8EF14ABF56503CDC9A646E740CA3@SUEXCL-03.ad.syr.edu> Jeremy, Permit me to follow on from your message with a note on the workshop you are helping organize. We will be addressing the IGF recommendation issue and others in the 'Role and Mandate of IGF' workshop Dec. 6th, 9am. A time to address our phobias, and perhaps move beyond them. Lee -----Original Message----- From: Jeremy Malcolm [mailto:jeremy at ciroap.org] Sent: Tue 11/25/2008 12:33 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ralf Bendrath Subject: Re: [governance] GNI On 25/11/2008, at 1:44 AM, Ralf Bendrath wrote: > This is a "classical" voluntary CSR mechanism and also seems to be > (viewed > as) a self-regulatory alternative to the more law-based approach of > having > a Global Online Freedom Act (GOFA) or something similar. > > EDRi decided not to become involved in GNI, for similar reasons as > Reporters without borders had to not endorse it, see below. As far > as I've > heard, even some of the GNI members like EFF still have reservations. The other problem that I have with GNI is that because it (quite deliberately) excludes governments (save for a UN observer), it limits its potential to become widely authoritative, at least in the short term. Much the same problem beset every previous effort at a non- governmental Internet policy forum (such as ISOC's Internet Societal Task Force). God knows, if we didn't have to suffer the presence of governments in the IGF, why would we? ;-) In principle a better approach for GNI would have been to work within the framework of the IGF - though the quite obvious reason why they didn't is that the IGF is in no manner ready to host this kind of initiative, because of its phobia of making recommendations. -- JEREMY MALCOLM Project Coordinator CONSUMERS INTERNATIONAL-KL OFFICE for Asia Pacific and the Middle East Consumers International (CI) is the only independent global campaigning voice for consumers. With over 220 member organisations in 115 countries, we are building a powerful international consumer movement to help protect and empower consumers everywhere. For more information, visit www.consumersinternational.org. ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 10:33:51 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 21:03:51 +0530 Subject: [governance] Audio Visual Documentation of IGF Hyderabad proceedings. Message-ID: Hello All, I am not sure if ALL the sessions at Rio and Athens were visually recorded - I do not find links to the speeches and presentations at the previous IGFs in the IGF website. Is is possible to propose to the host and to the IGF Secretariat that all IGF sessions - ALL sessions are video recorded and archived for the benefit of all for future reference ? It is more feasible at this IGF as there are bound to be video arrangement to record most of the sessions to feed the remote hubs. All that is required is to ensure that even those sessions that are not fed into the remote hub are recorded, the Q&A are recorded, the speech transcripts and the digital presentations are collated and stored. There may be a total of about 10 rooms, each room requiring two videographers, and the host is bound to have made arrangements for ten or twelve cameras already. If some attention could be paid to stretch this a little further to assign two video cameras positioned for the duration of the IGF, then we will have all of IGF on store for us to access any time. ( Even the participants would have difficulty attending all the sessions of their interest and are sometimes lost in the process of making a choice over what session to attend ) The panelists's Talks and his Q&As could be AV recorded and collated with full slide presentation, workshop-wise, and sent to the workshop organizer to verify the accuracy of transcripts before uploading it on the Web. If not all the panelists, there are bound to be several panel presentations that would be of value. Is it possible for the IGC to send a quick note to the host / IGF Secretariat ? If professional expertise is needed, India's BPOs should be able to offer plenty of help... -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From andersj at elon.edu Tue Nov 25 11:01:11 2008 From: andersj at elon.edu (Janna Anderson) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 11:01:11 -0500 Subject: [governance] Audio Visual Documentation of IGF Hyderabad In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello All, Imagining the Internet will have a small crew at IGF-Hyderabad to record main sessions and the Dec. 6 workshop on the role and mandate of IGF. We will not be able to post these immediately, but they will be documented and made available. The Imagining the Internet team is from Elon University in North Carolina, US. It consists of Professor Colin Donohue and four Elon students. If you will be in Hyderabad, they may seek you out for an interview; they will also be recording individual interviews to document people¹s views, asking the following questions: Who are you? Why are you at IGF? Is IGF important to the future of the Internet ­ why or why not? Should IGF continue beyond 2010? What is your greatest hope for the future of the Internet? What is your greatest fear? What can we do to assure the best future for the Internet and the world? Describe the future of the Internet in one word. Footage from previous IGFs is available: http://www.elon.edu/e-web/predictions/internet_governance_forum_2007.xhtml http://www.elon.edu/e-web/predictions/igf_interviews_2007.xhtml http://www.elon.edu/e-web/predictions/internet_governance_forum_2006.xhtml Some of the video is posted in a smaller file size on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ImaginingtheInternet Our goal is to document IGF as well as we can, to provide a historic record and to help inform future policy. We will also have a booth in the IGF Village, and we will have some T-shirts to give away to IGF delegates. Thank you to all who have participated in past interviews, and we look forward to seeing you at IGF. Janna Anderson On 11/25/08 10:33 AM, "Sivasubramanian Muthusamy" wrote: > Hello All, > > I am not sure if ALL the sessions at Rio and Athens were visually recorded - I > do not find links to the speeches and presentations at the previous IGFs in > the IGF website. > > Is is possible to propose to the host and to the IGF Secretariat that all IGF > sessions - ALL sessions are video recorded and archived for the benefit of all > for future reference ? It is more feasible at this IGF as there are bound to > be video arrangement to record most of the sessions to feed the remote hubs. > All that is required is to ensure that even those sessions that are not fed > into the remote hub are recorded, the Q&A are recorded, the speech transcripts > and the digital presentations are collated and stored. > > There may be a total of about 10 rooms, each room requiring two videographers, > and the host is bound to have made arrangements for ten or twelve cameras > already. If some attention could be paid to stretch this a little further to > assign two video cameras positioned for the duration of the IGF, then we will > have all of IGF on store for us to access any time. ( Even the participants > would have difficulty attending all the sessions of their interest and are > sometimes lost in the process of making a choice over what session to attend ) > > The panelists's Talks and his Q&As could be AV recorded and collated with full > slide presentation, workshop-wise, and sent to the workshop organizer to > verify the accuracy of transcripts before uploading it on the Web. > > If not all the panelists, there are bound to be several panel presentations > that would be of value. Is it possible for the IGC to send a quick note to the > host / IGF Secretariat ? > > If professional expertise is needed, India's BPOs should be able to offer > plenty of help... > > -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- > Janna Quitney Anderson > Director of Imagining the Internet > www.imaginingtheinternet.org > Associate Professor of Communications > School of Communications > Elon University > andersj at elon.edu > (336) 278-5733 (o) > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Tue Nov 25 14:51:15 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 06:51:15 +1100 Subject: [governance] CS Nominees for Opening and Closing Ceremonies Speakers Message-ID: <6209081A5CA94C74A76CE50D66CCC555@IAN> Many thanks to everyone who nominated or put forward names of others. The ad hoc committee (Jeanette, Parminder, myself, with the option for others to join) has now completed its work here and the following names will be sent to the Secretariat. Please note the names are those from whom Secretariat will make final choice according to their criteria (gender, regional balance etc) There will be two speakers for opening ceremony and one for closing chosen from the names submitted Another thing to note is that Parminder withdrew from consideration of Anita Gurumurthy's name as they work for the same organisation. Anita was supported unanimously by the other members, and was nominated for both sessions (one or the other) because we heard indications there were a lot of nominated Indian speakers for opening ceremony, as might be expected. If that leads to her not being considered there we would like her considered for closing ceremony. The names which will be forwarded are: OPENING Graciela Selaimen Anita Gurumurthy Alice Munyua Sean Siochru CLOSING Bill Drake Anita Gurumurthy (*** unless chosen for opening ceremony****) Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From karenb at gn.apc.org Tue Nov 25 14:57:34 2008 From: karenb at gn.apc.org (karen banks) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:57:34 +0000 Subject: [governance] CS Nominees for Opening and Closing In-Reply-To: <6209081A5CA94C74A76CE50D66CCC555@IAN> References: <6209081A5CA94C74A76CE50D66CCC555@IAN> Message-ID: <20081125195912.C66B0208233@mail.gn.apc.org> hi ian, thanks for your work, and jeanette and parminders, on this please note - sean's name is incorrect - it's Seán Ó Siochrú (yes, you'll have to cut and paste that one!) karen At 19:51 25/11/2008, Ian Peter wrote: >Many thanks to everyone who nominated or put >forward names of others. The ad hoc committee >(Jeanette, Parminder, myself, with the option >for others to join) has now completed its work >here and the following names will be sent to the >Secretariat. Please note the names are those >from whom Secretariat will make final choice >according to their criteria (gender, regional >balance etc) There will be two speakers for >opening ceremony and one for closing chosen from the names submitted > >Another thing to note is that Parminder withdrew >from consideration of Anita Gurumurthy’s name as >they work for the same organisation. Anita was >supported unanimously by the other members, and >was nominated for both sessions (one or the >other) because we heard indications there were a >lot of nominated Indian speakers for opening >ceremony, as might be expected. If that leads to >her not being considered there we would like her >considered for closing ceremony. > > >The names which will be forwarded are: > > >OPENING >Graciela Selaimen >Anita Gurumurthy >Alice Munyua >Sean Siochru > > >CLOSING >Bill Drake >Anita Gurumurthy (*** unless chosen for opening ceremony****) > > > > >Ian Peter >PO Box 429 >Bangalow NSW 2479 >Australia >Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >www.ianpeter.com > > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >Content-Disposition: inline; filename="message-footer.txt" > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Tue Nov 25 15:02:37 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 07:02:37 +1100 Subject: [governance] CS Nominees for Opening and Closing In-Reply-To: <20081125195912.C66B0208233@mail.gn.apc.org> Message-ID: Thanks Karen - let me repost then for accuracy – OPENING Graciela Selaimen Anita Gurumurthy Alice Munyua Seán Ó Siochrú CLOSING Bill Drake Anita Gurumurthy (*** unless chosen for opening ceremony****) Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com _____ From: karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] Sent: 26 November 2008 06:58 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter; governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] CS Nominees for Opening and Closing hi ian, thanks for your work, and jeanette and parminders, on this please note - sean's name is incorrect - it's Seán Ó Siochrú (yes, you'll have to cut and paste that one!) karen At 19:51 25/11/2008, Ian Peter wrote: Many thanks to everyone who nominated or put forward names of others. The ad hoc committee (Jeanette, Parminder, myself, with the option for others to join) has now completed its work here and the following names will be sent to the Secretariat. Please note the names are those from whom Secretariat will make final choice according to their criteria (gender, regional balance etc) There will be two speakers for opening ceremony and one for closing chosen from the names submitted Another thing to note is that Parminder withdrew from consideration of Anita Gurumurthy’s name as they work for the same organisation. Anita was supported unanimously by the other members, and was nominated for both sessions (one or the other) because we heard indications there were a lot of nominated Indian speakers for opening ceremony, as might be expected. If that leads to her not being considered there we would like her considered for closing ceremony. The names which will be forwarded are: OPENING Graciela Selaimen Anita Gurumurthy Alice Munyua Sean Siochru CLOSING Bill Drake Anita Gurumurthy (*** unless chosen for opening ceremony****) Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="message-footer.txt" ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1803 - Release Date: 11/23/2008 6:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 25 07:49:03 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 04:49:03 -0800 Subject: [governance] [Fwd: Re: [At-Large] ICANN Regional Gathering in Rome] Message-ID: <492BF43F.C20BB0A6@ix.netcom.com> All, Forwarded for your review... -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [At-Large] ICANN Regional Gathering in Rome Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:32:19 -0800 From: "Jeffrey A. Williams" Organization: IDNS and Spokesman for INEGroup To: At-Large Worldwide ,Danny Younger ,GAC Rep ,ICANN Policy staff CC: Ga ,DOC/NTIA ICANN Rep ,At-Large Staff ,"ICANN Admin supp. Manager Karen Lettner" ,icann board ,ICANN Dan Halloran ,ICANN Kim Davies ,icann legal ,ICANN Marc Salvatierra ,ICANN Marilyn Vernon ,Kieren McCarthy BCC: Alan Greenberg References: <596998.96589.qm at web52201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Danny and all, Is anyone that has any long standing history knowledge of ICANN surprised at this behavior? I would say not. But of course those stakeholders, users and Domain name holders, that are "Newbies" will of course likely have mixed feelings. Many of these folks now populate the ALAC and other "Social Engineering" groups, and can therefore be hoodwinked easily enough. That said, it is of course to be expected given the recent months of exchanges between ICANN Bod and Staff members and DOC/NTIA that any way that ICANN principals can side step their responsibilities to the MOU, they will do so. This is only one of many examples we have seen over the years with I am sure more to come. Danny Younger wrote: > Each year ICANN hosts regional outreach gatherings for ICANN accredited registrars and gTLD registries in the Europe, Asia/Pacific, and North America regions. These meetings are not open to the non-supplier community and no such regional gatherings are put together for any other combination of ICANN constituencies (as ICANN remains committed to its continued status as a registry/registrar cartel). > > ICANN's next regional gathering is the Europe Registry/Registrar Regional Gathering scheduled for January in Rome. ICANN recently sent "Save the Date" notices to those eligible to attend, but hasn't posted anything on the ICANN website itself, and of course the at-large community has not been invited to attend. > > These gatherings are deemed to be relatively small information-sharing events intended to educate and inform registrars from the region and their registry partners. ICANN sees no need to periodically educate and inform the non-contracted parties in a similar fashion. Earlier this year ICANN held an Asia/Pacific gathering in Seoul and a North America gathering in New Orleans. As the population of registrars expands in other parts of the world, ICANN expects to offer similar events in other regions and to continue to deny such outreach services to the remainder of the ICANN community. > > As was the case for the Seoul gathering and the New Orleans gathering, the Rome event will also be as non-transparent as possible with no remote participation opportunities provided, no session transcripts made available and no meeting recordings. > > > > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann.org > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 25 08:29:56 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 05:29:56 -0800 Subject: [governance] DNS positive development: Experts Tell Feds To Sign the DNS Root ASAP Message-ID: <492BFDD4.5469AA@ix.netcom.com> All, Well finnaly it seems that a positive development that our members have been pushing for to aid in the security and protection off all users is being touted and being considered as being needed ASAP. See: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/DNS/DNSSEC.html http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/119336 Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jeanette at wzb.eu Wed Nov 26 09:28:39 2008 From: jeanette at wzb.eu (Jeanette Hofmann) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 14:28:39 +0000 Subject: [governance] CS Nominees for Opening and Closing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <492D5D17.7050609@wzb.eu> Hi, after this overwhelming feedback I will now forward the list of nominees to the IGF secretariat. Jeanette Ian Peter wrote: > Thanks Karen - let me repost then for accuracy – > > > > OPENING > > Graciela Selaimen > > Anita Gurumurthy > > Alice Munyua > > Seán Ó Siochrú > > > > CLOSING > > Bill Drake > > Anita Gurumurthy (*** unless chosen for opening ceremony****) > > > > > > > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* karen banks [mailto:karenb at gn.apc.org] > *Sent:* 26 November 2008 06:58 > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org; Ian Peter; governance at lists.cpsr.org > *Subject:* Re: [governance] CS Nominees for Opening and Closing > > > > hi ian, > > thanks for your work, and jeanette and parminders, on this > > please note - sean's name is incorrect - it's Seán Ó Siochrú > > (yes, you'll have to cut and paste that one!) > > karen > > At 19:51 25/11/2008, Ian Peter wrote: > > Many thanks to everyone who nominated or put forward names of others. > The ad hoc committee (Jeanette, Parminder, myself, with the option for > others to join) has now completed its work here and the following names > will be sent to the Secretariat. Please note the names are those from > whom Secretariat will make final choice according to their criteria > (gender, regional balance etc) There will be two speakers for opening > ceremony and one for closing chosen from the names submitted > > Another thing to note is that Parminder withdrew from consideration of > Anita Gurumurthy’s name as they work for the same organisation. Anita > was supported unanimously by the other members, and was nominated for > both sessions (one or the other) because we heard indications there were > a lot of nominated Indian speakers for opening ceremony, as might be > expected. If that leads to her not being considered there we would like > her considered for closing ceremony. > > > The names which will be forwarded are: > > > OPENING > Graciela Selaimen > Anita Gurumurthy > Alice Munyua > Sean Siochru > > > CLOSING > Bill Drake > Anita Gurumurthy (*** unless chosen for opening ceremony****) > > > > > Ian Peter > PO Box 429 > Bangalow NSW 2479 > Australia > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > www.ianpeter.com > > > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Content-Disposition: inline; filename="message-footer.txt" > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1803 - Release Date: > 11/23/2008 6:59 PM > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch Wed Nov 26 12:02:46 2008 From: william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch (William Drake) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:02:46 +0100 Subject: [governance] Book on Governing Global Electronic Networks Message-ID: <1CAAD1C6-1EEC-4E0C-89BE-D64B03C04917@graduateinstitute.ch> Hello, Apologies for cross-posting, but the book release announcement below may be of interest to some on this list. At the Internet Governance Forum in Hyderabad Dec. 3-6 I can provide a coupon offering a 30% conference price reduction. Best, Bill ----------------- The MIT Press Governing Global Electronic Networks: International Perspectives on Policy and Power Edited by William J. Drake and Ernest J. Wilson III The burgeoning use and transformative impact of global electronic networks are widely recognized to be defining features of contemporary world affairs. Less often noted has been the increasing importance of global governance arrangements in managing the many issues raised in such networks. This volume helps fill the gap by assessing some of the key international institutions pertaining to global telecommunications regulation and standardization, radio frequency spectrum, satellite systems, trade in services, electronic commerce, intellectual property, traditional mass media and Internet content, Internet names and numbers, cybercrime, privacy protection, and development. Eschewing technocratic approaches, the contributors offer empirically rich studies of the international power dynamics shaping these institutions. They devote particular attention to the roles and concerns of nondominant stakeholders, such as developing countries and civil society, and find that global governance often reinforces wider power disparities between and within nation-states. But at the same time, the contributors note, governance arrangements often provide nondominant stakeholders with the policy space needed to advance their interests more effectively. Each chapter concludes with a set of policy recommendations for the promotion of an open, dynamic, and more equitable networld order. William J. Drake is a senior associate with the Centre for International Governance at the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva, Switzerland. Ernest J. Wilson III is Dean of the Annenberg School for Communication at the University of Southern California. He is the author of The Information Revolution and Developing Countries (MIT Press, 2004). Contributors: Peng Hwa Ang, Jonathan D. Aronson, Byung-il Choi, Tracy Cohen, Peter F. Cowhey, William J. Drake, Henry Farrell, Rob Frieden, Alison Gillwald, Boutheina Guermazi, Cees J. Hamelink, Ian Hosein, Wolfgang Kleinwaechter, Don MacLean, Christopher May, Milton Mueller, John Richards, David Souter, Ernest Wilson III, Jisuk Woo. “Global electronic networks are now absolutely central to economic, social and political processes the world over. They are the connective tissue that binds together the world community. This volume provides provocative and insightful assessments of key issues and institutions involved in their governance at the global level. I recommend it highly.” — Nitin Desai, Special Adviser to the Secretary-General for Internet Governance and former Under-Secretary-General for Economic and Social Affairs, the United Nations “This valuable compendium provides real insight into the array of debates and issues that the communications revolution creates for global politics. For some readers, this will be a useful entry point to the discussions; for others, it will add sophistication to the debates.” — John Zysman, professor of Political Science and co-director of the Berkeley Roundtable on the International Economy, the University of California at Berkeley “The global governance of electronic networks typically reflects the priorities of governments and corporations from the industrialized countries much more than those of developing countries and civil society. What’s more, much of the scholarly and policy literature on governance processes mirrors this top-down orientation. This volume takes a more balanced approach by giving due consideration to the roles and interests of nondominant actors and offering a series of progressive policy recommendations. The essays blend technical expertise and critical perspectives in a manner that will be very valuable to civil society activists and others working for an inclusive and just global information society.” — Anriette Esterhuysen, Executive Director, the Association for Progressive Communications December 2008 • 6 x 9 • 720 pages • 10 illustrations • $50/£32.95 cloth • 978-0-262-04251-2 Sample chapters and purchasing at http://tinyurl.com/5mh9jj TABLE OF CONTENTS PREFACE vii Ernest J. Wilson III ACKNOWLEDGMENTS xv 1. Introduction: The Distributed Architecture of Network Global Governance William J. Drake p. 1 I. THE GLOBAL GOVERNANCE OF INFRASTRUCTURE 2. Sovereign Right and the Dynamics of Power in the ITU: Lessons in the Quest for Inclusive Global Governance Don MacLean p. 83 3. Balancing Equity and Efficiency Issues in Global Spectrum Management Rob Frieden p. 127 4. The Peculiar Evolution of 3G Wireless Networks: Institutional Logic, Politics, and Property Rights Peter F. Cowhey, Jonathan D. Aronson, and John E. Richards p. 149 5. The GATS Agreement on Basic Telecommunications: A Developing Country Perspective Boutheina Guermazi p. 187 II. THE GLOBAL GOVERNANCE OF NETWORKED INFORMATION, COMMUNICATION, AND COMMERCE 6. Trade Barriers or Cultural Diversity? The Audiovisual Sector on Fire Byung-il Choi p. 233 7. The Global Governance of Mass Media Content Cees J. Hamelink p. 275 8. International Regulation of Internet Content: Possibilities and Limits Peng Hwa Ang p. 305 9. Creating Conventions: Technology Policy and International Cooperation in Criminal Matters Ian Hosein p. 331 10. Privacy in the Digital Age: State, Private Actors, and Hybrid Arrangements Henry Farrell p. 375 11. Intellectual Property Rights, Capacity Building, and ‘‘Informational Development’’ in Developing Countries Christopher May p. 401 III. THE PARTICIPATION OF NONDOMINANT STAKEHOLDERS IN NETWORK GLOBAL GOVERNANCE 12. Louder Voices and the International Debate on Developing Country Participation in ICT Decision Making David Souter p. 429 13. The Ambiguities of Participation in the Global Governance of Electronic Networks: Implications for South Africa and Lessons for Developing Countries Tracy Cohen and Alison Gillwald p. 463 14. Spectators or Players? Participation in ICANN by the ‘‘Rest of the World’’ Milton Mueller and Jisuk Woo p. 507 15. Multistakeholderism, Civil Society, and Global Diplomacy: The Case of the World Summit on the Information Society Wolfgang Kleinwachter p. 535 16. Conclusion: Governance of Global Electronic Networks: The Contrasting Views of Dominant and Nondominant Actors Ernest J. Wilson III p. 583 CONTRIBUTORS p. 617 INDEX p. 623 INFORMATION REVOLUTION AND GLOBAL POLITICS William J. Drake and Ernest J. Wilson III, editors The Information Revolution and Developing Countries Ernest J. Wilson III Human Rights in the Global Information Society Rikke Frank Jørgensen, editor Mobile Communication and Society: A Global Perspective Manuel Castells, Mireia Fernández-Ardèvol, Jack Linchuan Qiu, and Araba Sey Access Denied: The Practice and Policy of Global Internet Filtering Ronald Deibert, John Palfrey, Rafal Rohozinski, and Jonathan Zittrain, editors Governing Global Electronic Networks: International Perspectives on Policy and Power William J. Drake and Ernest J. Wilson III, editors Working-Class Network Society: Communication Technology and the Information Have-Less in Urban China Jack Linchuan Qiu (Forthcoming Spring 2009) Transforming Global Information and Communication Markets: The Political Economy of Innovation Peter F. Cowhey, Jonathan D. Aronson, and John E. Richards, with Donald Abelson (Forthcoming Spring 2009) Protocol Politics: The Globalization of Internet Governance Laura DeNardis (Forthcoming) *********************************************************** William J. Drake Senior Associate Centre for International Governance Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies Geneva, Switzerland william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch *********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Wed Nov 26 15:02:28 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 07:02:28 +1100 Subject: [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai Message-ID: For anyone glued to their email and missing other news - There have been substantial co-ordinated attacks in last few hours targeting westerners in Mumbai. Early reports suggest at least 55 dead plus hostages taken. Don't know what that means for us or even maybe for the conference, but as I was booked into Colaba district where these attacks occurred from tomorrow night, I will be rearranging my travel! Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From lists at privaterra.info Wed Nov 26 16:07:39 2008 From: lists at privaterra.info (Robert Guerra) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:07:39 +0100 Subject: [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: BBC, CNN and international press are reporting a series of coordinated terrorist attacks in India's Financial Capitol - Mombay. US and British Citizens have been targeted. Further information @ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7751160.stm Hope all those already in India are safe . People arriving in the next few days should stay updated on news and developments. Look forward to further details from the secretariat and IGF organizers. My prayers to people in India and those harmed in these attacks. robert -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From shailam at yahoo.com Wed Nov 26 16:16:20 2008 From: shailam at yahoo.com (shaila mistry) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:16:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai References: Message-ID: <708837.34821.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Friends I am watching as well. I will update as I receive information  in California. I don't leave for a couple of days as yet ! I know we are all feeling a little apprehensive. But we can pool information and wait and see . My prayers for all the folks in India. I am from India and have family in Mumbai. Shaila Rao Mistry California   be as a well......sure and limitless.... but as time befits.....assume other forms ....     ________________________________ From: Ian Peter To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:02:28 PM Subject: [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai For anyone glued to their email and missing other news –   There have been substantial co-ordinated attacks in last few hours targeting westerners in Mumbai. Early reports suggest at least 55 dead plus hostages taken.   Don’t know what that means for us or even maybe for the conference, but as I was booked into Colaba district where these attacks occurred from tomorrow night, I will be rearranging my travel!       Ian Peter PO Box  429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From lists at privaterra.info Wed Nov 26 16:19:10 2008 From: lists at privaterra.info (Robert Guerra) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:19:10 +0100 Subject: [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai In-Reply-To: <708837.34821.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <708837.34821.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Let me suggest those interested in following developments on the attacks to follow the posts @ http://search.twitter.com/search?q=mumbai On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:16 PM, shaila mistry wrote: > Dear Friends > I am watching as well. I will update as I receive information in > California. I don't leave for a couple of days as yet ! > I know we are all feeling a little apprehensive. But we can pool > information and wait and see . > My prayers for all the folks in India. I am from India and have family in > Mumbai. > > Shaila Rao Mistry > California > > *be as a well......sure and limitless.... > but as time befits.....assume other forms .... ** > > * > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Ian Peter > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org > *Sent:* Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:02:28 PM > *Subject:* [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai > > For anyone glued to their email and missing other news – > > > > There have been substantial co-ordinated attacks in last few hours > targeting westerners in Mumbai. Early reports suggest at least 55 dead plus > hostages taken. > > > > Don't know what that means for us or even maybe for the conference, but as > I was booked into Colaba district where these attacks occurred from tomorrow > night, I will be rearranging my travel! > > > > > > > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ginger at paque.net Wed Nov 26 18:28:22 2008 From: ginger at paque.net (Ginger Paque) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:58:22 -0430 Subject: [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai : ICANN NOTE In-Reply-To: References: <708837.34821.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <008401c9501e$b02ed530$6401a8c0@GINGERLAPTOP> ICANN Security staff are monitoring the recent attacks in Mumbai and have the following immediate advice for staff and other travelers to the upcoming IGF Meeting in Hyderabad. 1) If possible – transit through Mumbai Airport to Hyderabad should be avoided. Police activity and increased security in Mumbai is already causing significantly increased delays in transit. Increased security nationwide will likely affect other cities in India over the next several days but will cause the greatest delays in Mumbai for the short term. 2) Novatel Hyderabad and Hyderabad International Convention Centre staff have advised that additional security and police coverage will be in place for the IGF meeting. Attendees should be prepared to furnish additional identification to authorities in transit and at the hotel/conference venues. 3) No specific information has been developed to indicate that there are increased threats to the meeting venue but attendees should continue to monitor the situation and maintain contact with meeting organizers. The well coordinated attacks in Mumbai appear to target western visitors and ICANN board and staff should take appropriate precautions to avoid high profile while in country. Links to media coverage of the attacks include: http://news.bbc.co.uk/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7751160.stm http://www.cnn.com http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream2 Geoff Bickers Director of Security Operations ICANN 4676 Admiralty Way | Ste 330 Marina del Rey, CA 90292 USA tel +1 310 823 9358 | fax +1 310 823 8649 _____ De: Robert Guerra [mailto:lists at privaterra.info] Enviado el: Miércoles, 26 de Noviembre de 2008 04:49 p.m. Para: governance at lists.cpsr.org Asunto: Re: [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai Let me suggest those interested in following developments on the attacks to follow the posts @ http://search.twitter.com/search?q=mumbai On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 10:16 PM, shaila mistry wrote: Dear Friends I am watching as well. I will update as I receive information in California. I don't leave for a couple of days as yet ! I know we are all feeling a little apprehensive. But we can pool information and wait and see . My prayers for all the folks in India. I am from India and have family in Mumbai. Shaila Rao Mistry California be as a well......sure and limitless.... but as time befits.....assume other forms .... _____ From: Ian Peter To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 12:02:28 PM Subject: [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai For anyone glued to their email and missing other news – There have been substantial co-ordinated attacks in last few hours targeting westerners in Mumbai. Early reports suggest at least 55 dead plus hostages taken. Don't know what that means for us or even maybe for the conference, but as I was booked into Colaba district where these attacks occurred from tomorrow night, I will be rearranging my travel! Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 25 22:08:43 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:08:43 -0800 Subject: [governance] [Fwd: Re: [At-Large] Serious Allegations] Message-ID: <492CBDBB.47288664@ix.netcom.com> All, FYI -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [At-Large] Serious Allegations Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:07:57 -0800 From: "Jeffrey A. Williams" Organization: IDNS and Spokesman for INEGroup To: At-Large Worldwide ,Danny Younger ,ICANN Policy staff ,GAC Rep ,"twomey at icann.org" ,Peter Dengate Thrush CC: NA Discuss ,"ICANN Admin supp. Manager Karen Lettner" ,icann board ,ICANN Dan Halloran ,ICANN Kim Davies ,icann legal ,ICANN Marc Salvatierra ,ICANN Marilyn Vernon ,"'John L. Crain'" , Ga ,Kieren McCarthy , cmarsan at nww.com BCC: Izumi AIZU , Jaap Akkerhuis ,"Jacqueline A. Morris" ,James Seng , Jeanette Hofmann ,Jeff Neuman ,Jeremy Malcolm ,JFC Morfin ,2nd addr for Robert Guerra ,Hong Xue , Hovav Shacham References: <276750.3575.qm at web52211.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Danny and all, Yes Danny, these are very telling and serious allegations, and point to what has been sense the inception of ICANN at the center of it's controversy which remains today, and growing stronger nearly daily. DNSSEC not implemented properly as I and a very few others have all along contended can be more of a hindrance than an advantage. As such given ICANN lack of technical expertise that has all too often been evident and recognized, ceding the Legacy Roots to ICANN alone without government oversight, is unfortunately a risk that at this time should not be considered. Yet I still myself remain optimistic that some day ICANN once it has significantly reformed, can and will be ready for such a lofty responsibility. Without a secure and safe DNS, all else that occurs in the use of the Internet is circumspect at a minimum, and coincidence in the ecommerce global marketplace remains far, and increasingly more dangerous than can lone be realistically endured or afforded. Danny Younger wrote: > interesting read... > > http://www.ntia.doc.gov/DNS/comments/comment027.pdf > > > > _______________________________________________ > At-Large mailing list > At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org > http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large_atlarge-lists.icann.org > > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Tue Nov 25 22:41:16 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:41:16 -0800 Subject: [governance] Attacks on Westerners in Mumbai References: Message-ID: <492CC55C.D13131A7@ix.netcom.com> Ian and all, Good idea to rearrange your travel arrangements! As every one should know, India has a significant element of extremists of various sorts. So be smart and be safe! Ian Peter wrote: > For anyone glued to their email and missing other news – > > There have been substantial co-ordinated attacks in last few hours > targeting westerners in Mumbai. Early reports suggest at least 55 dead > plus hostages taken. > > Don’t know what that means for us or even maybe for the conference, > but as I was booked into Colaba district where these attacks occurred > from tomorrow night, I will be rearranging my travel! > > Ian Peter > > PO Box 429 > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > Australia > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > www.ianpeter.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From nhklein at gmx.net Wed Nov 26 22:58:05 2008 From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:58:05 +0700 Subject: [governance] Travel through Bangkok... In-Reply-To: <492CBDBB.47288664@ix.netcom.com> References: <492CBDBB.47288664@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <200811271058.06003.nhklein@gmx.net> Info for people planning to travel through Bangkok: http://www.bangkokpost.com/pad_mass_protest/pad_mass_protest.php Norbert -- Norbert KLEIN Phnom Penh/Cambodia PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us regularly - you can find something new every day: http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Wed Nov 26 04:50:34 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:50:34 -0800 Subject: [governance] 101 killed as gunmen rampage in India city Message-ID: <492D1BE9.BF19F1D1@ix.netcom.com> All, Well it seems it has gotten worse in India. See: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_INDIA_SHOOTING?SITE=ININS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT Seems to be an effort that was well coordinated and well planed as the Indian police were caught unawares. Also it seems that UK, and US citizens along with Jewish travelers and visitors were targeted specifically. As someone that is jewish, I find this to be particularly galling. Perhaps the Israeli special forces organizations should be called in here? So any of you whom are UK, US citizens or jewish, might want to rethink your traveling plans to India for the forseeable future... Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From vb at bertola.eu Thu Nov 27 04:35:00 2008 From: vb at bertola.eu (Vittorio Bertola) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 10:35:00 +0100 Subject: [governance] Civil society / Europarliament meeting Message-ID: <492E69C4.2040006@bertola.eu> For any of you who will be in Hyderabad and may be interested: ==== The European Parliament meets the Civil Society On the 4th of December at 13:00 in room 2.3, the delegation of the European Parliament to the IGF organises a meeting with the representatives of the civil society. The meeting provides a forum to exchange views on the role of the civil society in shaping Internet governance related issues. If you are interested to attend and for further information please contact: Claudia.Selli at ec.europa.eu Regards, -- vb. Vittorio Bertola - vb [a] bertola.eu <-------- --------> finally with a new website at http://bertola.eu/ <-------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From qshatti at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 06:08:14 2008 From: qshatti at gmail.com (Qusai AlShatti) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 14:08:14 +0300 Subject: [governance] 101 killed as gunmen rampage in India city In-Reply-To: <492D1BE9.BF19F1D1@ix.netcom.com> References: <492D1BE9.BF19F1D1@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <609019df0811270308v4a9cb89i28a1d29b984ce2b3@mail.gmail.com> Dear All: Moments ago we heard that the situation in Mumbai has been resolved and all hostages were freed (Among the hostages were Kuwaiti Nationals). This reflects the competency of the Indain authorities which we are sure that they will take every possible measure to secure the IGF meeting. I hope that this incident will not stop us from being in Hyderabad which will refelct support and appreciation to India and the Indian people. Regards, Qusai Al-Shatti On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams < jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote: > All, > > Well it seems it has gotten worse in India. > See: > > http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_INDIA_SHOOTING?SITE=ININS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT > > Seems to be an effort that was well coordinated and well planed > as the Indian police were caught unawares. Also it seems that > UK, and US citizens along with Jewish travelers and visitors were > targeted specifically. As someone that is jewish, I find this to be > particularly galling. Perhaps the Israeli special forces organizations > should be called in here? > > So any of you whom are UK, US citizens or jewish, might want > to rethink your traveling plans to India for the forseeable future... > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > =============================================================== > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au Thu Nov 27 06:56:54 2008 From: goldstein_david at yahoo.com.au (David Goldstein) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 03:56:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [governance] 101 killed as gunmen rampage in India city References: <492D1BE9.BF19F1D1@ix.netcom.com> <609019df0811270308v4a9cb89i28a1d29b984ce2b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <610863.2475.qm@web54112.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Let's not get too carried away with the competence of the Indian authorities. The Times reported: "Last year, out of 22,000 people killed in terrorist attacks worldwide, 2,300 people, or 10.5 per cent, were in India, according to the US State Department’s latest report on global terrorism. "Yet India rarely arrests, let alone convicts, the culprits, because of its poorly-trained and under-staffed law enforcement agencies and its chronically overloaded judicial system, experts say." http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24714288-2703,00.html ________________________________ From: Qusai AlShatti To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Sent: Thursday, 27 November, 2008 10:08:14 PM Subject: Re: [governance] 101 killed as gunmen rampage in India city Dear All: Moments ago we heard that the situation in Mumbai has been resolved and all hostages were freed (Among the hostages were Kuwaiti Nationals). This reflects the competency of the Indain authorities which we are sure that they will take every possible measure to secure the IGF meeting. I hope that this incident will not stop us from being in Hyderabad which will refelct support and appreciation to India and the Indian people. Regards, Qusai Al-Shatti On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: All, Well it seems it has gotten worse in India. See: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_INDIA_SHOOTING?SITE=ININS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT Seems to be an effort that was well coordinated and well planed as the Indian police were caught unawares. Also it seems that UK, and US citizens along with Jewish travelers and visitors were targeted specifically. As someone that is jewish, I find this to be particularly galling. Perhaps the Israeli special forces organizations should be called in here? So any of you whom are UK, US citizens or jewish, might want to rethink your traveling plans to India for the forseeable future... Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Start your day with Yahoo!7 and win a Sony Bravia TV. Enter now http://au.docs.yahoo.com/homepageset/?p1=other&p2=au&p3=tagline -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ca at rits.org.br Thu Nov 27 08:02:52 2008 From: ca at rits.org.br (Carlos Afonso) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:02:52 -0200 Subject: [governance] 101 killed as gunmen rampage in India city In-Reply-To: <609019df0811270308v4a9cb89i28a1d29b984ce2b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <492D1BE9.BF19F1D1@ix.netcom.com> <609019df0811270308v4a9cb89i28a1d29b984ce2b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <492E9A7C.2070903@rits.org.br> Good and encouraging message, compa Qusai! We will be there, for sure. fraternal regards --c.a. Qusai AlShatti wrote: > Dear All: > Moments ago we heard that the situation in Mumbai has been resolved and all > hostages were freed (Among the hostages were Kuwaiti Nationals). This > reflects the competency of the Indain authorities which we are sure that > they will take every possible measure to secure the IGF meeting. I hope that > this incident will not stop us from being in Hyderabad which will refelct > support and appreciation to India and the Indian people. > > Regards, > > Qusai Al-Shatti > > > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 12:50 PM, Jeffrey A. Williams < > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com> wrote: > >> All, >> >> Well it seems it has gotten worse in India. >> See: >> >> http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_INDIA_SHOOTING?SITE=ININS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT >> >> Seems to be an effort that was well coordinated and well planed >> as the Indian police were caught unawares. Also it seems that >> UK, and US citizens along with Jewish travelers and visitors were >> targeted specifically. As someone that is jewish, I find this to be >> particularly galling. Perhaps the Israeli special forces organizations >> should be called in here? >> >> So any of you whom are UK, US citizens or jewish, might want >> to rethink your traveling plans to India for the forseeable future... >> >> Regards, >> >> Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) >> "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - >> Abraham Lincoln >> "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama >> >> "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is >> very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt >> >> "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; >> liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by >> P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." >> United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] >> =============================================================== >> Updated 1/26/04 >> CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. >> div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. >> ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail >> jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com >> My Phone: 214-244-4827 >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm Thu Nov 27 11:37:32 2008 From: carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm (Carlton Samuels) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:37:32 -0500 Subject: [governance] 101 killed as gunmen rampage in India city In-Reply-To: <492D1BE9.BF19F1D1@ix.netcom.com> References: <492D1BE9.BF19F1D1@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: <61a136f40811270837i54c37c90g8d7c78bd8cc692d0@mail.gmail.com> ..."*Israeli special forces organizations should be called in*".... To do what, Jeffrey? Kill Indians? The casual dismissal of Indian security service capabilities is what is galling!!! Carlton Samuels On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:50 AM, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: > All, > > Well it seems it has gotten worse in India. > See: > > http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_INDIA_SHOOTING?SITE=ININS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT > > Seems to be an effort that was well coordinated and well planed > as the Indian police were caught unawares. Also it seems that > UK, and US citizens along with Jewish travelers and visitors were > targeted specifically. As someone that is jewish, I find this to be > particularly galling. Perhaps the Israeli special forces organizations > should be called in here? > > So any of you whom are UK, US citizens or jewish, might want > to rethink your traveling plans to India for the forseeable future... > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] > =============================================================== > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From lisa at global-partners.co.uk Thu Nov 27 13:05:31 2008 From: lisa at global-partners.co.uk (Lisa Horner) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:05:31 -0000 Subject: [governance] IGF Workshop Invitation: Mainstreaming human rights in the work of the IGF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43E4CB4D84F7434DB4539B0744B009A0139397@DATASRV.GLOBAL.local> Dear all Please find attached an invitation flyer, agenda and background notes for the IGF workshop "Mainstreaming Human Rights in the work of the IGF", scheduled for Friday 5th December (Day 3) at 11.30 in Room 5. The workshop is being organized by Global Partners and Associates and the Dynamic Coalition on an Internet Bill of Rights. Invitation also pasted below. I hope to see you there, and please do spread the word. Best wishes, Lisa ___________________________________________________________ Lisa Horner Head of Research & Policy Global Partners and Associates 338 City Road, London, EC1V 2PY, UK Office: + 44 207 239 8251 Mobile: +44 7867 795859 lisa at global-partners.co.uk www.global-partners.co.uk INVITATION Mainstreaming Human Rights in the Work of the IGF IGF Workshop - 11.30 am, 5th December (Day 3), Room 5. The aim of this workshop is to explore challenges and opportunities for embedding international human rights standards in the underlying norms and shared principles of internet governance. The focus will be on strategies for mainstreaming rights standards in all internet governance policies, processes and activities. According to this approach, rights should not be seen as a stand-alone issue within internet governance, but rather as integral to all discussions and policy processes. The workshop will take the form of an inclusive discussion amongst all participants. Rather than having formal panellists in the traditional format, we are inviting a number of stakeholders to make short, concise contributions and comments as part of an interactive debate. Discussants include representatives from the dynamic coalitions, including the coalitions on: • Accessibility and Disability (Gabriela Barrios) • Access to Knowledge (Lea Shaver) • Framework of Principles for the Internet (Gurumurthy Kasinathan) • Internet Bill of Rights (Shaila Mistry) • Linguistic Diversity (Viola Krebs) • Privacy (Ralf Bendrath) The discussion will also include contributions from a range of other experts in the wider internet governance community including Peter Hellmonds (Head of Corporate Social Responsibility, Nokia Siemens Networks), Miriam Sapiro (President, Summit Strategies International), Shahzad Ahmad (Bytes For All), Jan Malinowski (Head of Media and Information Society Division, Council of Europe) and Chat Garcia Ramilo (Coordinator, APC Women’s Programme). The workshop will be moderated by Andrew Puddephatt, Director of Global Partners and Associates. This workshop is being organised by Global Partners and Associates, in coordination with the Dynamic Coalition on an Internet Bill of Rights. We would like to invite representatives from all stakeholder groups to contribute to the discussion, helping to identify the main challenges and opportunities for incorporating human rights standards into internet governance and to formulate practical strategies for moving forward. This workshop will be captioned using Communication Access Realtime Translation services provided by Caption First. For more information, please contact lisa at global-partners.co.uk http://internet-bill-of-rights.org http://www.global-partners.co.uk http://www.freedomofexpression.org.uk __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3646 (20081127) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Mainstreaming_rights_workshop_flyer¬es.pdf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 489607 bytes Desc: Mainstreaming_rights_workshop_flyer¬es.pdf URL: From marzouki at ras.eu.org Thu Nov 27 13:57:35 2008 From: marzouki at ras.eu.org (Meryem Marzouki) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 19:57:35 +0100 Subject: [governance] IGC Meeting , Hyderabad Message-ID: Dear all, As announced by Ian, IGC meeting will be held in Hyderabad on Tuesday 2 December, right after GigaNet Symposium, i.e. at 18:30. I can now confirm that IGC meeting will be held in the same room as GigaNet Symposium, i.e. Meeting Rooms 1.03 and 1.04 combined (HICC 1st floor). The IGF secretariat agreed that we keep this room for the IGC meeting until 20:30. This room seats 150 persons. As chair of this Symposium program Committee, I'm also pleased to invite you to attend the Third GigaNet Annual Symposium, which will start the same day at 9:00, and will last the whole day. Detailed information on the Symposium is at: http://giganet.igloogroups.org/annualsymp NB. Pre-registration is now closed. Onsite registration will start at 8:30. Best regards, Meryem -- Meryem Marzouki LIP6/PolyTIC - CNRS 104 avenue du Président Kennedy - 75016 Paris http://www-polytic.lip6.fr ===== Le 24 nov. 08 à 00:32, Ian Peter a écrit : Given all the feedback - plus now we know the hosts are preparing a cultural event and dinner on the first night of IGF (Dec 3) The IGF meeting should be as proposed before and agreed to by most people DECEMBER 2, 6.30PM. Right after Giganet Business Meeting. Hopefully we can keep this fairly concise. Meryem, can you confirm extension of meeting room as venue as suggested below? Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com -----Original Message----- From: Meryem Marzouki [mailto:marzouki at ras.eu.org] Sent: 11 November 2008 06:04 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Subject: Re: [governance] IGF, Hyderabad Hi Anja and all You're right, the IGF starts on the 3rd (Wednesday), and GigaNet symposium is held on the 2nd, until 18:30. Having an IGC meeting right after GigaNet business meeting (i.e. 18:30-20:30) could be an option, especially since, most probably, we could keep the same room (Parminder, I can ask if you want me to do so, since I'm anyhow in contact with the IGF secretariat and with HICC event manager re: logistics issues). Best, Meryem -- Meryem Marzouki - http://www.iris.sgdg.org IRIS - Imaginons un réseau Internet solidaire 40 rue de la Justice - 75020 Paris ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Fri Nov 28 01:10:04 2008 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 06:10:04 +0000 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience Message-ID: Hi, I think everyone must be wondering about security in India. I am not a security expert, just a traveller, but thought I'd let you know what I've just experienced... I flew in to Hyderabad via Delhi a few hours ago. Delhi airport seemed busy, but operating very normally. Immigration, baggage collection, customs, transfer between international and domestic airports (in Delhi that means a 20-30 minute drive in city traffic) seemed perfectly normal. I guess things may be different in at Mubai for anyone transiting there, and events in the city are terrible, but all has been fine for me. Never know what might happen, crossing the road might be a challenge! But right now all seems, well, normal. Note Markus Kummer sent to the MAG list below. Looking forward to seeing many of you in a few days. One tip: if you are changing planes from international to domestic at an airport in India, call your airline before and see if they have a bus for transfers between terminals, or of one's needed. I cannot make any recommendation about travel, that's for you and your country's travel advisories to decide. But hope it helps to know that from my experience today things seems fine. Good luck with upgrades :-) Adam At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: > >Dear colleagues, > >We have received many queries in the aftermath >of the Mumbai terrorist attacks. Wile our >thoughts are with the victims, I am impressed >with the resolve of the Indian people not to let >terrorism get in the way of their daily lives. > >Our hosts have every intention to go ahead with >the Hyderabad meeting as planned and will update >the Host Country Web site accordingly. The Chief >of the UN Security team in charge of the >Hyderabad meeting is already on site and >coordinating with his Indian counterparts on how >best to secure the meeting. They are currently >assessing the security situation and we will >keep you posted should there be any change of >the situation. > >Many Foreign Ministries/Embassies post their own >travel advisories ­ you may wish to consult the >one of your own country in order to make up your >mind whether or not to travel to Hyderabad. >Ultimately, each participant will have to decide >by himself or herself. > >While I am not authorized to give any security >assessment, I can write about my own impressions >and observations. Life here goes on in an >orderly and disciplined manner and as a visitor >I feel in no way threatened or insecure. It is >not up to me to make any recommendation in this >matter. However, in my view, the Indian >Government and people deserve our solidarity. >Wat better way to show solidarity than by >attending the Hyderabad meeting? > >Best regards > >Markus > > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From nhklein at gmx.net Thu Nov 27 20:49:45 2008 From: nhklein at gmx.net (Norbert Klein) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:49:45 +0700 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200811280849.45974.nhklein@gmx.net> Thanks, Adam, for your personal observations, and for sharing Markus's note. I want to comment only on one point below. On Friday, 28 November 2008 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: > At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: > >Dear colleagues, > > each participant will have to decide > > by himself or herself. Not only - both airports in Bangkok are still under siege and closed, and it is not sure if they will be open by Monday morning. Via Bangkok is the only route I could take... So if I don't show up, that is the reason, Norbert -- Norbert Klein Phnom Penh/Cambodia PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us regularly - you can find something new every day: http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ian.peter at ianpeter.com Thu Nov 27 20:58:27 2008 From: ian.peter at ianpeter.com (Ian Peter) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 12:58:27 +1100 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: <200811280849.45974.nhklein@gmx.net> Message-ID: <99F2CD31741C41999620977674D87A37@IAN> I do hope most of us can make it and there aren't too many cancellations. Just this morning I was able to secure an alternative route via Singapore to avoid Mumbai. I did have some trouble finding available Hyderabad tickets that didn't fly via Mumbai that were suitable - but an alternative seems to be to fly in via Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg (I understand at Bangalore domestic and international terminal are in one building) Our Indian colleagues might have some comments on that and whether it raises any particular problems. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Norbert Klein [mailto:nhklein at gmx.net] > Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Adam Peake > Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience > > Thanks, Adam, for your personal observations, and for sharing Markus's > note. I > want to comment only on one point below. > > On Friday, 28 November 2008 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: > > > At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: > > >Dear colleagues, > > > > each participant will have to decide > > > by himself or herself. > > > Not only - both airports in Bangkok are still under siege and closed, and > it > is not sure if they will be open by Monday morning. > > Via Bangkok is the only route I could take... > > So if I don't show up, that is the reason, > > > Norbert > > -- > Norbert Klein > Phnom Penh/Cambodia > PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 > > If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us > regularly - > you can find something new every day: > > http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) > http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1808 - Release Date: 11/23/2008 > 6:59 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From katitza at datos-personales.org Thu Nov 27 20:59:36 2008 From: katitza at datos-personales.org (Katitza Rodriguez Pereda) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:59:36 -0500 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43C8BAD0-B181-4637-8A77-2E0952C3FDF4@datos-personales.org> The same here. Airport in hyderabad was ok. I just arrived. Katitza, On Nov 28, 2008, at 1:10 AM, Adam Peake wrote: > Hi, > > I think everyone must be wondering about security in India. I am > not a security expert, just a traveller, but thought I'd let you > know what I've just experienced... I flew in to Hyderabad via Delhi > a few hours ago. Delhi airport seemed busy, but operating very > normally. Immigration, baggage collection, customs, transfer between > international and domestic airports (in Delhi that means a 20-30 > minute drive in city traffic) seemed perfectly normal. > > I guess things may be different in at Mubai for anyone transiting > there, and events in the city are terrible, but all has been fine > for me. > > Never know what might happen, crossing the road might be a > challenge! But right now all seems, well, normal. > > Note Markus Kummer sent to the MAG list below. > > Looking forward to seeing many of you in a few days. One tip: if > you are changing planes from international to domestic at an airport > in India, call your airline before and see if they have a bus for > transfers between terminals, or of one's needed. > > I cannot make any recommendation about travel, that's for you and > your country's travel advisories to decide. But hope it helps to > know that from my experience today things seems fine. > > Good luck with upgrades :-) > > Adam > > > > At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: >> >> Dear colleagues, >> >> We have received many queries in the aftermath of the Mumbai >> terrorist attacks. Wile our thoughts are with the victims, I am >> impressed with the resolve of the Indian people not to let >> terrorism get in the way of their daily lives. >> >> Our hosts have every intention to go ahead with the Hyderabad >> meeting as planned and will update the Host Country Web site >> accordingly. The Chief of the UN Security team in charge of the >> Hyderabad meeting is already on site and coordinating with his >> Indian counterparts on how best to secure the meeting. They are >> currently assessing the security situation and we will keep you >> posted should there be any change of the situation. >> >> Many Foreign Ministries/Embassies post their own travel advisories >> you may wish to consult the one of your own country in order to >> make up your mind whether or not to travel to Hyderabad. >> Ultimately, each participant will have to decide by himself or >> herself. >> >> While I am not authorized to give any security assessment, I can >> write about my own impressions and observations. Life here goes on >> in an orderly and disciplined manner and as a visitor I feel in no >> way threatened or insecure. It is not up to me to make any >> recommendation in this matter. However, in my view, the Indian >> Government and people deserve our solidarity. Wat better way to >> show solidarity than by attending the Hyderabad meeting? >> >> Best regards >> >> Markus >> >> >> > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From katitza at datos-personales.org Thu Nov 27 21:05:57 2008 From: katitza at datos-personales.org (Katitza Rodriguez Pereda) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:05:57 -0500 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: <99F2CD31741C41999620977674D87A37@IAN> References: <99F2CD31741C41999620977674D87A37@IAN> Message-ID: <310EF02F-D702-48D6-A2B5-B30084527A98@datos-personales.org> Flight through Qatar. (Qatar airlines, directly from Qatar to Hyderabad. Katitza, On Nov 27, 2008, at 8:58 PM, "Ian Peter" wrote: > I do hope most of us can make it and there aren't too many > cancellations. > Just this morning I was able to secure an alternative route via > Singapore to > avoid Mumbai. > > I did have some trouble finding available Hyderabad tickets that > didn't fly > via Mumbai that were suitable - but an alternative seems to be to > fly in via > Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg (I understand at Bangalore > domestic and international terminal are in one building) Our Indian > colleagues might have some comments on that and whether it raises any > particular problems. > > Ian Peter > PO Box 429 > Bangalow NSW 2479 > Australia > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > www.ianpeter.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Norbert Klein [mailto:nhklein at gmx.net] >> Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Adam Peake >> Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good >> experience >> >> Thanks, Adam, for your personal observations, and for sharing >> Markus's >> note. I >> want to comment only on one point below. >> >> On Friday, 28 November 2008 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: >> >>> At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: >>>> Dear colleagues, >> >>>> each participant will have to decide >>>> by himself or herself. >> >> >> Not only - both airports in Bangkok are still under siege and >> closed, and >> it >> is not sure if they will be open by Monday morning. >> >> Via Bangkok is the only route I could take... >> >> So if I don't show up, that is the reason, >> >> >> Norbert >> >> -- >> Norbert Klein >> Phnom Penh/Cambodia >> PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 >> >> If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us >> regularly - >> you can find something new every day: >> >> http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) >> http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1808 - Release Date: >> 11/23/2008 >> 6:59 PM > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From glaser at nic.br Thu Nov 27 22:07:14 2008 From: glaser at nic.br (Hartmut Glaser) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 01:07:14 -0200 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: <310EF02F-D702-48D6-A2B5-B30084527A98@datos-personales.org> References: <99F2CD31741C41999620977674D87A37@IAN> <310EF02F-D702-48D6-A2B5-B30084527A98@datos-personales.org> Message-ID: <492F6062.9010207@nic.br> Or from Dubai to Hyderabad with Emirates.... Hartmut Glaser =================================================== On 28/11/2008 00:05, Katitza Rodriguez Pereda wrote: > Flight through Qatar. (Qatar airlines, directly from Qatar to Hyderabad. > > Katitza, > > On Nov 27, 2008, at 8:58 PM, "Ian Peter" wrote: > >> I do hope most of us can make it and there aren't too many >> cancellations. >> Just this morning I was able to secure an alternative route via >> Singapore to >> avoid Mumbai. >> >> I did have some trouble finding available Hyderabad tickets that >> didn't fly >> via Mumbai that were suitable - but an alternative seems to be to fly >> in via >> Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg (I understand at Bangalore >> domestic and international terminal are in one building) Our Indian >> colleagues might have some comments on that and whether it raises any >> particular problems. >> >> Ian Peter >> PO Box 429 >> Bangalow NSW 2479 >> Australia >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> www.ianpeter.com >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Norbert Klein [mailto:nhklein at gmx.net] >>> Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 >>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Adam Peake >>> Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good >>> experience >>> >>> Thanks, Adam, for your personal observations, and for sharing Markus's >>> note. I >>> want to comment only on one point below. >>> >>> On Friday, 28 November 2008 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: >>> >>>> At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: >>>>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>>>> each participant will have to decide >>>>> by himself or herself. >>> >>> >>> Not only - both airports in Bangkok are still under siege and >>> closed, and >>> it >>> is not sure if they will be open by Monday morning. >>> >>> Via Bangkok is the only route I could take... >>> >>> So if I don't show up, that is the reason, >>> >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>> -- >>> Norbert Klein >>> Phnom Penh/Cambodia >>> PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 >>> >>> If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us >>> regularly - >>> you can find something new every day: >>> >>> http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) >>> http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >>> >>> For all list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1808 - Release Date: >>> 11/23/2008 >>> 6:59 PM >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From guru at itforchange.net Fri Nov 28 00:40:36 2008 From: guru at itforchange.net (Guru) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 11:10:36 +0530 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: <99F2CD31741C41999620977674D87A37@IAN> References: <99F2CD31741C41999620977674D87A37@IAN> Message-ID: <492F8454.3070203@itforchange.net> Bangalore international and domestic airports are in the same building and you can transit Bangalore to Hyderabad there are many other cities too which are connected to hyderabad - Chennai, Kochi, Calcutta (apart from Delhi /Mumbai) which are around an hour away from hyderabad. Mumbai airport is in the northern part of the city and the shootings happened in the southern tip (CBD). so perhaps the airport may get into normal mode but security everywhere will be very strong ... Guru Ian Peter wrote: > I do hope most of us can make it and there aren't too many cancellations. > Just this morning I was able to secure an alternative route via Singapore to > avoid Mumbai. > > I did have some trouble finding available Hyderabad tickets that didn't fly > via Mumbai that were suitable - but an alternative seems to be to fly in via > Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg (I understand at Bangalore > domestic and international terminal are in one building) Our Indian > colleagues might have some comments on that and whether it raises any > particular problems. > > Ian Peter > PO Box 429 > Bangalow NSW 2479 > Australia > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > www.ianpeter.com > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Norbert Klein [mailto:nhklein at gmx.net] >> Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 >> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Adam Peake >> Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience >> >> Thanks, Adam, for your personal observations, and for sharing Markus's >> note. I >> want to comment only on one point below. >> >> On Friday, 28 November 2008 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: >> >> >>> At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: >>> >>>> Dear colleagues, >>>> >>>> each participant will have to decide >>>> by himself or herself. >>>> >> Not only - both airports in Bangkok are still under siege and closed, and >> it >> is not sure if they will be open by Monday morning. >> >> Via Bangkok is the only route I could take... >> >> So if I don't show up, that is the reason, >> >> >> Norbert >> >> -- >> Norbert Klein >> Phnom Penh/Cambodia >> PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 >> >> If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us >> regularly - >> you can find something new every day: >> >> http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) >> http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1808 - Release Date: 11/23/2008 >> 6:59 PM >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- Gurumurthy Kasinathan IT for Change www.ITforChange.net Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities Tel:98454 37730 http://ITforChange.net http://India.IS-Watch.net http://IS-Watch.net *IT for Change is an NGO in Special Consultative Status with United Nations' Economic and Social Council* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From ajp at glocom.ac.jp Fri Nov 28 10:55:19 2008 From: ajp at glocom.ac.jp (Adam Peake) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 15:55:19 +0000 Subject: [governance] Fwd: Re: [igf_members] ? UN assessment of travel to India ? Message-ID: Email from Markus Kummer below. Please forward to anyone you think may be concerned about travel and the situation in Hyderabad and the IGF. Best, Adam >Delivered-To: ajp at glocom.ac.jp >From: Markus KUMMER >To: igf_members at intgovforum.org >Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 07:39:55 +0100 >Subject: Re: [igf_members] ? UN assessment of travel to India ? > >Dear colleagues, > >As you have been notified by our host country, >the IGF meeting in Hyderabad will go ahead as >scheduled. The UN security team, in close >cooperation with their Indian counterparts, >assessed the situation in India in the aftermath >of the Mumbai terrorist attacks and came to the >conclusion that all meetings in the country >should proceed as planned, with the exception of >the Mumbai area. > >We take the safety of participants very >seriously and our security team is working >closely with the Indian police in order to >ensure nothing untoward happens. They are >assessing the situation on a ongoing basis and >are ready to adapt the security arrangements to >the prevailing threat levels. > >A quick survey of travel advisories reveals that >while several countries urge travellers to >exercise caution, we have found no country that >advises against travelling into India. Several >countries advise against visiting Mumbai. The >US, for instance, urges to defer travel to >Mumbai for the next 48-72 hours. > >Mumbai airport is open to all air traffic, but >several airlines have cancelled their flight to >the city for the time being. > >We have every confidence that our security team >will provide as safe an environment as can be >and hope to see you in Hyderabad soon. > >We will also post a note on our Web site. I >would be grateful if you can spread this message >as widely as you can. > >Best regards > >Markus > > ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 27 05:43:29 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 02:43:29 -0800 Subject: [governance] 101 killed as gunmen rampage in India city References: <492D1BE9.BF19F1D1@ix.netcom.com> <61a136f40811270837i54c37c90g8d7c78bd8cc692d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <492E79D1.45304399@ix.netcom.com> Carlton and all, Seems that some Indians have already been killed. But no, killing of any sort is never a good solution unless ones life is in immediate danger of being taken. Ergo, I can only read your reponse to my posting below as a simple miss interpratation. Perhaps that is due to a difference in "Culture"? In any event, and perhaps better stated, the deaths and distruction in this terrorist attack, however well planned by it's perpatrators, is at least in part, if not to a great degree, the lack of Indian security practices in a tourists area(s). A sad, but seemingly accurate evaluation... So this said, I hope that everyone had a safe and happy Thanksgiving, and may god protect and bless all with safe travels and return. Carlton Samuels wrote: > ...."Israeli special forces organizations should be called in".... To > do what, Jeffrey? Kill Indians? > > The casual dismissal of Indian security service capabilities is what > is galling!!! > > Carlton Samuels > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 4:50 AM, Jeffrey A. > Williams wrote: > > All, > > Well it seems it has gotten worse in India. > See: > http > //hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_INDIA_SHOOTING?SITE=ININS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT > > Seems to be an effort that was well coordinated and well > planed > as the Indian police were caught unawares. Also it seems > that > UK, and US citizens along with Jewish travelers and visitors > were > targeted specifically. As someone that is jewish, I find > this to be > particularly galling. Perhaps the Israeli special forces > organizations > should be called in here? > > So any of you whom are UK, US citizens or jewish, might > want > to rethink your traveling plans to India for the forseeable > future... > > Regards, > > Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k > members/stakeholders strong!) > "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - > Abraham Lincoln > "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama > > "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with > what is > very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt > > "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the > burden, B; > liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied > by > P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." > United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. > 1947] > ===== > ========================================================= > Updated 1/26/04 > CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data > security IDNS. > div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. > ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail > jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com > My Phone: 214-244-4827 > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 27 05:45:14 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 02:45:14 -0800 Subject: [governance] IGF Workshop Invitation: Mainstreaming human rightsin References: <43E4CB4D84F7434DB4539B0744B009A0139397@DATASRV.GLOBAL.local> Message-ID: <492E7A3A.ACD64C78@ix.netcom.com> Lisa and all, Thank you Lisa, and will do! >:) Lisa Horner wrote: > Dear all > > Please find attached an invitation flyer, agenda and background notes for the IGF workshop "Mainstreaming Human Rights in the work of the IGF", scheduled for Friday 5th December (Day 3) at 11.30 in Room 5. The workshop is being organized by Global Partners and Associates and the Dynamic Coalition on an Internet Bill of Rights. Invitation also pasted below. I hope to see you there, and please do spread the word. > > Best wishes, > > Lisa > ___________________________________________________________ > Lisa Horner > Head of Research & Policy Global Partners and Associates > 338 City Road, London, EC1V 2PY, UK > Office: + 44 207 239 8251 Mobile: +44 7867 795859 > lisa at global-partners.co.uk www.global-partners.co.uk > > INVITATION > > Mainstreaming Human Rights in the Work of the IGF > IGF Workshop - 11.30 am, 5th December (Day 3), Room 5. > > The aim of this workshop is to explore challenges and opportunities for embedding international human rights standards in the underlying norms and shared principles of internet governance. The focus will be on strategies for mainstreaming rights standards in all internet governance policies, processes and activities. According to this approach, rights should not be seen as a stand-alone issue within internet governance, but rather as integral to all discussions and policy processes. > > The workshop will take the form of an inclusive discussion amongst all participants. Rather than having formal panellists in the traditional format, we are inviting a number of stakeholders to make short, concise contributions and comments as part of an interactive debate. Discussants include representatives from the dynamic coalitions, including the coalitions on: > > • Accessibility and Disability (Gabriela Barrios) > • Access to Knowledge (Lea Shaver) > • Framework of Principles for the Internet (Gurumurthy Kasinathan) > • Internet Bill of Rights (Shaila Mistry) > • Linguistic Diversity (Viola Krebs) > • Privacy (Ralf Bendrath) > > The discussion will also include contributions from a range of other experts in the wider internet governance community including Peter Hellmonds (Head of Corporate Social Responsibility, Nokia Siemens Networks), Miriam Sapiro (President, Summit Strategies International), Shahzad Ahmad (Bytes For All), Jan Malinowski (Head of Media and Information Society Division, Council of Europe) and Chat Garcia Ramilo (Coordinator, APC Women’s Programme). > > The workshop will be moderated by Andrew Puddephatt, Director of Global Partners and Associates. > > This workshop is being organised by Global Partners and Associates, in coordination with the Dynamic Coalition on an Internet Bill of Rights. We would like to invite representatives from all stakeholder groups to contribute to the discussion, helping to identify the main challenges and opportunities for incorporating human rights standards into internet governance and to formulate practical strategies for moving forward. > > This workshop will be captioned using Communication Access Realtime Translation services provided by Caption First. > > For more information, please contact lisa at global-partners.co.uk > > http://internet-bill-of-rights.org > http://www.global-partners.co.uk > http://www.freedomofexpression.org.uk > > > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3646 (20081127) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. > > http://www.eset.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: Mainstreaming_rights_workshop_flyer¬es.pdf > Mainstreaming_rights_workshop_flyer¬es.pdf Type: Acrobat (application/pdf) > Encoding: base64 > Description: Mainstreaming_rights_workshop_flyer¬es.pdf Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 09:32:24 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:02:24 +0530 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: <492F8454.3070203@itforchange.net> References: <99F2CD31741C41999620977674D87A37@IAN> <492F8454.3070203@itforchange.net> Message-ID: Hello All, Any one who wants to avoid Bombay have several options: 1) fly direct into hyderabad if there is a direct flight or 2) fly to any of the cities - Chennai (Madras), Bangalore or Delhi (New Delhi) which are all cities well connected by air to Hyderabad. The domestic and international terminals in Chennai and Bangalore are NOT in separate locations. In Delhi they are in separate locations, but transfers are usually taken care of the by the airlines, there are courtesy coaches, and even if it is not included, it is not a problem at all finding free or paid transportation at $ 5 - $ 10 http://www.bengaluruairport.com/portal/page/portal/BIAL_PageGroup/BIAL_ARR_HOME http://www.chennaiairport.com/ http://www.newdelhiairport.in/ Delhi Transfer Info http://www.aai.aero/igi/transport_facilities.jsp The experiences shared by Adam Peake, Ian Peter and Katiza should encourage all to attend the IGF at Hyderabad, and I have no hesitation in saying that it would be a normal experience in any city other than Mumbai and that those traveling to Hyderabad will be secure in Hyderabad and shall have a good experience. Welcome to the IGF. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Guru wrote: > > Bangalore international and domestic airports are in the same building and > you can transit Bangalore to Hyderabad > > there are many other cities too which are connected to hyderabad - > Chennai, Kochi, Calcutta (apart from Delhi /Mumbai) which are around an > hour away from hyderabad. > > Mumbai airport is in the northern part of the city and the shootings > happened in the southern tip (CBD). so perhaps the airport may get into > normal mode > > but security everywhere will be very strong ... > > Guru > > > Ian Peter wrote: > > I do hope most of us can make it and there aren't too many cancellations. > Just this morning I was able to secure an alternative route via Singapore to > avoid Mumbai. > > I did have some trouble finding available Hyderabad tickets that didn't fly > via Mumbai that were suitable - but an alternative seems to be to fly in via > Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg (I understand at Bangalore > domestic and international terminal are in one building) Our Indian > colleagues might have some comments on that and whether it raises any > particular problems. > > Ian Peter > PO Box 429 > Bangalow NSW 2479 > Australia > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773www.ianpeter.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Norbert Klein [mailto:nhklein at gmx.net ] > Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Adam Peake > Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience > > Thanks, Adam, for your personal observations, and for sharing Markus's > note. I > want to comment only on one point below. > > On Friday, 28 November 2008 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: > > > > At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: > > > Dear colleagues, > > > each participant will have to decide > by himself or herself. > > > Not only - both airports in Bangkok are still under siege and closed, and > it > is not sure if they will be open by Monday morning. > > Via Bangkok is the only route I could take... > > So if I don't show up, that is the reason, > > > Norbert > > -- > Norbert Klein > Phnom Penh/Cambodia > PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 > > If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us > regularly - > you can find something new every day: > http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English)http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Internal Virus Database is out of date. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1808 - Release Date: 11/23/2008 > 6:59 PM > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > -- > Gurumurthy Kasinathan > IT for Changewww.ITforChange.net > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities > Tel:98454 37730http://ITforChange.net http://India.IS-Watch.net http://IS-Watch.net > *IT for Change is an NGO in Special Consultative Status with United Nations' Economic and Social Council* > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy http://www.circleid.com/members/3601/ http://twitter.com/isocchennai -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From muguet at mdpi.net Fri Nov 28 10:20:03 2008 From: muguet at mdpi.net (Dr. Francis MUGUET) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:20:03 +0100 Subject: [governance] Announcement Proposal IGF Dynamic Coalition Internet of Things. In-Reply-To: References: , <492B600E.50701@ensta.fr> Message-ID: <49300C23.8030601@mdpi.net> */Announcement /* The organizers of two IGF workshops on the Internet of Things have initiated a proposal for the formation of a *Dynamic Coalition of the Internet of Things *Please check the site http://www.internet-things.org for further information. A first formation meeting is scheduled on 05 December (Hyderabad day 3 ) from 17:00 to 18H30. Hope to see you all soon in Hyderabad All the best The organizers * Dr. Wolfgang Kleinwaechter ( University of Aarhus ) * Chantal Lebrument ( Safran ) * Sophie. Lepallec ( GS1 ) * Dr. Francis Muguet ( ENSTA - Ingénieurs du Monde ) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Legal notice : Except stated explicitely, this message shall not be construed as the official position of above mentionned entities Notice légale ; A moins que cela ne soit explicitement indiqué, ce message ne constitue la position officielle des entités mentionnées ci-dessos ------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 42595 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From karenb at gn.apc.org Fri Nov 28 12:21:55 2008 From: karenb at gn.apc.org (karen banks) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 17:21:55 +0000 Subject: [governance] APC @ the IGF Message-ID: <20081128172319.C818B20D676@mail.gn.apc.org> hi folks I'm looking forward to seeing lots of you in Hyderabad - i know that the terrible situation in Mumbai has cast a shadow over the event in many respects, of course, the event pales into insignificance in light ot the tragedy - but i hope we can all still contribute to making the IGF a useful event for everyone. Some info about workshops APC is co-hosting at the IGF below Safe travels everyone karen ==== APC is working with partners to host four thematic workshops: === Workshop 50 : Can Internet governance change global futures? Or will global futures change Internet governance? Using scenarios to map the relationship between Internet Governance and other global challenges. With IISD (International Institute For Sustainable Development): December 3rd, 1100-1230, Room 2 This workshop will explore what happens when you specifically consider the implications of key Internet governance debates such as management of the critical Internet resources (e.g., domain name system, IPv6), countering spam, multilingualism, and cyber-security within global scenarios for progress towards, or away from, a sustainable future http://www.intgovforum.org/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=80 === Workshop 26 : Towards a code of good practice on public participation in internet governance With the COE (Council of Europe) and UNECE (United Nations Economic Council for Europe): December 4th, 1430-1630, Room 3 Discussing the proposal for a “Code of good practice on public participation, access to information and transparency in Internet governance http://www.intgovforum.org/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=98 == Workshop 8 : Promoting pro-poor access to ICTs With UNDP (United Nations Development Programme) December 5th, 1630-1800 in Room 1 Governments, policy practitioners, civil society organisations (CSOs) and field level practitioners are developing various innovative ways of promoting affordable communications access. However, at the moment, these innovations are not widely shared. APC, in partnership with the UNDP, is developing a resource toolkit which will bring together emerging experiences, opportunities and lessons in access provision. It looks at policy and regulatory issues; implementation of projects at the community level; and advocacy strategies and approaches. The results and recommendations of this work will be presented and discussed at this workshop. The workshop will provide participants with an opportunity to learn about and discuss some of the emerging and promising options for increasing pro-poor access to ICTs. View the Draft Pro-Poor ICT Access Toolkit documents: http://access.apc.org/index.php/Pro-Poor_ICT_Access_toolkit_documents http://www.intgovforum.org/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=55 === Workshop 49 : A Development Agenda for Internet Governance: From Principle to Practice With the Graduate Institute for International and Development Studies: December 5th, 1600-1730, Room 6 A development agenda is a holistic program of analysis and action intended to mainstream development considerations into the procedures and policy outputs of global governance mechanisms. In recent years, many stakeholders have worked to promote such agendas in the multilateral institutions dealing with such issues as international trade and intellectual property. But in the field of global Internet governance, there has not been any debate about whether a development agenda could be functionally effective and politically feasible. http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=15 === The launch of Global Information Society Watch 2008 ­ Focus on infrastructure Dec 4th: 1830-2000, Refreshments provided, Room 7 On December 4 at the IGF, APC and partners will be launching the new 2008 GISWatch report. The annual publication this year highlights the importance of people’s access to infrastructure ­ and reports on where and how countries are getting it right or wrong, and what can be done about it. “There are few independent sources for taking the temperature of the ICT4D policy debate and looking at the current state of the digital divide. GISWatch provides both in a thought-provoking and challenging way,” says Russell Southwood, CEO of Balancing Act. GISWatch, published in print and shortly online by APC and the Third World Institute (ITeM) and Hivos, collects the perspectives of ICT academics, analysts, activists and civil society organisations from across the globe in over 50 reports. == APC folk are also speaking in other sessions and workshops. You can find the full APC programme of events, and information about the launch of Global Information Society Watch 2008 - which focuses on Access to Infrastructure this year - on the site here: http://www.apc.org/en/news/governance/world/apc-internet-governance-forum-india -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From email at hakik.org Fri Nov 28 13:12:42 2008 From: email at hakik.org (Hakikur Rahman) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 18:12:42 +0000 Subject: [governance] APC @ the IGF In-Reply-To: <20081128172319.C818B20D676@mail.gn.apc.org> References: <20081128172319.C818B20D676@mail.gn.apc.org> Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.0.20081128180757.019a1560@hakik.org> Dear Karen, A great set of workshops and very well documented posting. I was extremely interested in the pro-poor access to ICTs. However, due to my recent involvement in a Post-Doctoral program in Portugal (just last week, I have arrived here), I will not be able to participate in this important event. Good luck to you all and hope to meet you in near future. Thanking you. Best regards, Hakik from University of Minho, Portugal. At 17:21 28-11-2008, karen banks wrote: >hi folks > >I'm looking forward to seeing lots of you in >Hyderabad - i know that the terrible situation >in Mumbai has cast a shadow over the event in >many respects, of course, the event pales into >insignificance in light ot the tragedy - but i >hope we can all still contribute to making the IGF a useful event for everyone. > >Some info about workshops APC is co-hosting at the IGF below > >Safe travels everyone > >karen >==== > > >APC is working with partners to host four thematic workshops: > >=== > >Workshop 50 : Can Internet governance change >global futures? Or will global futures change >Internet governance? Using scenarios to map the >relationship between Internet Governance and other global challenges. > >With IISD (International Institute For Sustainable Development): >December 3rd, 1100-1230, Room 2 > >This workshop will explore what happens when you >specifically consider the implications of key >Internet governance debates such as management >of the critical Internet resources (e.g., domain >name system, IPv6), countering spam, >multilingualism, and cyber-security within >global scenarios for progress towards, or away from, a sustainable future > >http://www.intgovforum.org/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=80 >=== > >Workshop 26 : Towards a code of good practice on >public participation in internet governance >With the COE (Council of Europe) and UNECE >(United Nations Economic Council for Europe): >December 4th, 1430-1630, Room 3 > >Discussing the proposal for a “Code of good >practice on public participation, access to >information and transparency in Internet governance > >http://www.intgovforum.org/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=98 > >== > >Workshop 8 : Promoting pro-poor access to ICTs >With UNDP (United Nations Development Programme) >December 5th, 1630-1800 in Room 1 > >Governments, policy practitioners, civil society >organisations (CSOs) and field level >practitioners are developing various innovative >ways of promoting affordable communications >access. However, at the moment, these >innovations are not widely shared. APC, in >partnership with the UNDP, is developing a >resource toolkit which will bring together >emerging experiences, opportunities and lessons >in access provision. It looks at policy and >regulatory issues; implementation of projects at >the community level; and advocacy strategies and approaches. >The results and recommendations of this work >will be presented and discussed at this >workshop. The workshop will provide participants >with an opportunity to learn about and discuss >some of the emerging and promising options for >increasing pro-poor access to ICTs. > >View the Draft Pro-Poor ICT Access Toolkit >documents: >http://access.apc.org/index.php/Pro-Poor_ICT_Access_toolkit_documents > >http://www.intgovforum.org/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=55 > >=== > >Workshop 49 : A Development Agenda for Internet >Governance: From Principle to Practice >With the Graduate Institute for International and Development Studies: >December 5th, 1600-1730, Room 6 > >A development agenda is a holistic program of >analysis and action intended to mainstream >development considerations into the procedures >and policy outputs of global governance >mechanisms. In recent years, many stakeholders >have worked to promote such agendas in the >multilateral institutions dealing with such >issues as international trade and intellectual >property. But in the field of global Internet >governance, there has not been any debate about >whether a development agenda could be >functionally effective and politically feasible. > >http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/workshops_08/showmelist.php?mem=15 > >=== > >The launch of Global Information Society Watch 2008 ­ Focus on infrastructure >Dec 4th: 1830-2000, Refreshments provided, Room 7 > >On December 4 at the IGF, APC and partners will >be launching the new 2008 GISWatch report. The >annual publication this year highlights the >importance of people’s access to infrastructure >­ and reports on where and how countries are >getting it right or wrong, and what can be done about it. > >“There are few independent sources for taking >the temperature of the ICT4D policy debate and >looking at the current state of the digital >divide. GISWatch provides both in a >thought-provoking and challenging way,” says >Russell Southwood, CEO of Balancing Act. > >GISWatch, published in print and shortly online >by APC and the Third World Institute (ITeM) and >Hivos, collects the perspectives of ICT >academics, analysts, activists and civil society >organisations from across the globe in over 50 reports. > >== > >APC folk are also speaking in other sessions and >workshops. You can find the full APC programme >of events, and information about the launch of >Global Information Society Watch 2008 - which >focuses on Access to Infrastructure this year - >on the site here: >http://www.apc.org/en/news/governance/world/apc-internet-governance-forum-india > >____________________________________________________________ >You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org >To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > >For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Fri Nov 28 14:47:57 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:47:57 +0200 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm scheduled to transfer via Mumbai from an international to a domestic flight very early on Wednesday morning. Any advice would be welcome. MG -----Original Message----- From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com] Sent: November-28-08 4:32 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Cc: Ian Peter; Norbert Klein; katitza at datos-personales.org; Adam Peake Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience Hello All, Any one who wants to avoid Bombay have several options: 1) fly direct into hyderabad if there is a direct flight or 2) fly to any of the cities - Chennai (Madras), Bangalore or Delhi (New Delhi) which are all cities well connected by air to Hyderabad. The domestic and international terminals in Chennai and Bangalore are NOT in separate locations. In Delhi they are in separate locations, but transfers are usually taken care of the by the airlines, there are courtesy coaches, and even if it is not included, it is not a problem at all finding free or paid transportation at $ 5 - $ 10 http://www.bengaluruairport.com/portal/page/portal/BIAL_PageGroup/BIAL_ARR_H OME http://www.chennaiairport.com/ http://www.newdelhiairport.in/ Delhi Transfer Info http://www.aai.aero/igi/transport_facilities.jsp The experiences shared by Adam Peake, Ian Peter and Katiza should encourage all to attend the IGF at Hyderabad, and I have no hesitation in saying that it would be a normal experience in any city other than Mumbai and that those traveling to Hyderabad will be secure in Hyderabad and shall have a good experience. Welcome to the IGF. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Guru wrote: Bangalore international and domestic airports are in the same building and you can transit Bangalore to Hyderabad there are many other cities too which are connected to hyderabad - Chennai, Kochi, Calcutta (apart from Delhi /Mumbai) which are around an hour away from hyderabad. Mumbai airport is in the northern part of the city and the shootings happened in the southern tip (CBD). so perhaps the airport may get into normal mode but security everywhere will be very strong ... Guru Ian Peter wrote: I do hope most of us can make it and there aren't too many cancellations. Just this morning I was able to secure an alternative route via Singapore to avoid Mumbai. I did have some trouble finding available Hyderabad tickets that didn't fly via Mumbai that were suitable - but an alternative seems to be to fly in via Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg (I understand at Bangalore domestic and international terminal are in one building) Our Indian colleagues might have some comments on that and whether it raises any particular problems. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com -----Original Message----- From: Norbert Klein [mailto:nhklein at gmx.net] Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Adam Peake Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience Thanks, Adam, for your personal observations, and for sharing Markus's note. I want to comment only on one point below. On Friday, 28 November 2008 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: Dear colleagues, each participant will have to decide by himself or herself. Not only - both airports in Bangkok are still under siege and closed, and it is not sure if they will be open by Monday morning. Via Bangkok is the only route I could take... So if I don't show up, that is the reason, Norbert -- Norbert Klein Phnom Penh/Cambodia PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us regularly - you can find something new every day: http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1808 - Release Date: 11/23/2008 6:59 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Gurumurthy Kasinathan IT for Change www.ITforChange.net Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities Tel:98454 37730 http://ITforChange.net http://India.IS-Watch.net http://IS-Watch.net *IT for Change is an NGO in Special Consultative Status with United Nations' Economic and Social Council* ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy http://www.circleid.com/members/3601/ http://twitter.com/isocchennai -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 27 23:17:41 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:17:41 -0800 Subject: [governance] Announcement Proposal IGF Dynamic Coalition Internetof References: , <492B600E.50701@ensta.fr> <49300C23.8030601@mdpi.net> Message-ID: <492F70E3.D442DDBD@ix.netcom.com> Francis and all, Internet of Things? What sort of "Things"? Can you discribe or perhaps provide examples. "Things" implies something tangable, or physical. Is that what this purposed organization is about? Please advise. I also noticed that your mailing list is another of those spam riddin Google Groups. Not very professional. I shall not be participating accordingly as Google and all of its miling list "Groups" does not meet the UN prescribed recognition of privacy. "Dr. Francis MUGUET" wrote: > > Announcement� > > > [Image] > > > The organizers of two IGF workshops on the Internet of Things have > initiated a proposal for > the formation of a Dynamic Coalition of the Internet of Things > > Please check the site http://www.internet-things.org for further > information. > > A first formation meeting is scheduled on� 05 December (Hyderabad day > 3 ) from 17:00 to 18H30. > > Hope to see you all soon in Hyderabad > > All the best > > The organizers > > * Dr. Wolfgang Kleinwaechter ( University of Aarhus ) > * Chantal Lebrument ( Safran ) > * Sophie. Lepallec ( GS1 ) > * Dr. Francis Muguet ( ENSTA - Ingénieurs du Monde ) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > � > > Legal notice : > Except stated explicitely, > this message shall not be construed as the official position > of above mentionned entities > > Notice légale ; > A moins que cela ne soit explicitement indiqué, > ce message ne constitue la position officielle > des entités mentionnées ci-dessos > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Thu Nov 27 23:26:57 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:26:57 -0800 Subject: [governance] Re: editorial to post Searching the Web for Flu Outbreaks References: <023101c9516d$88684630$9938d290$@org> Message-ID: <492F730F.B50DE19C@ix.netcom.com> Debbie and all, My and our members answer is already known, and it is an emphatic NO! Google has repeatedly demonstrated that it's form of "anonymization" is weak at best. As such, trusting Google to be able to handle such medical data records in a private, secure and respectful way of the owner of such records is at this time, not reasonably effective. From our members point of view, as you already know Debbie, unless or until Google dramatically changes it's TOS to meet already existing Constitutional, and Bill of Rights protections in respect to managing or handling consumers or users data across the board, we cannot in good conscience or in the interest of the "Greater Good" abide in Google's current business practices accordingly. Deborah Peel wrote: > Should the NYTimes or the public take Google at its word on > "anonymization"? > > Repeatedly both amateurs and computer scientists have unmasked > people's identities from supposedly "de-identified" or "anonymized" > data bases released for research purposes. In the past few years, > "anonymized" AOL search data was re-identified, "de-identified" > Netflix movie reviews were re-identified, and a "de-identified" > genetic data base released by the NIH had to be closed because the > data was re-identifiable. Latanya Sweeney PhD famously re-identified > former Governor William Weld and his family's health records from a > "de-identified" ambulatory care data set released by the state of MA. > > It turns out that creating truly anonymous data sets, especially of > health data, is very difficult. This matters a great deal to privacy > because every byte of data about every one of us is being collected > and sold by the data mining industry. Once health data is sold, it can > never be made private again. The health data mining industry is > especially large and robust, selling everything from prescription > records, genetic test records, insurance claims data, to data from > hospital and physician electronic medical records systems. This > matters because the buyers are employers, insurers, financial > institutions, and Fusion Centers. > > Patient Privacy Rights believes that health information should not be > used for job or credit discrimination--especially today. Corporations > or researchers that release "de-identified" or "anonymized" health > data should be required to release the algorithms that prove the data > cannot be re-identified, in order to keep Americans' sensitive data > from being re-identified and sold to businesses and the government > without consent. > > deb > > > ttp://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/28/opinion/28fri3.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper > > Top of Form > Bottom of Form > [New York Times] > > Opinion > > November 28, 2008 > > Editorial > > Searching the Web for Flu Outbreaks > > Two recent studies have shown the promise of using data from search > engines to provide early warning of influenza outbreaks — and the > pitfalls and limitations, as well. Privacy considerations aside, it is > a technology that will need refinement if it is to be used by public > health officials for early warning duties. > > One study, published by the journal Clinical Infectious Diseases, > examined the relationship between searches for influenza-related terms > on the Yahoo search engine and the actual occurrence of influenza over > a four-year period in the United States. The searches spiked one to > three weeks in advance of a sharp rise in laboratory cultures testing > positive for influenza and up to five weeks in advance of a rise in > mortality due to influenza. > > The other study, published in the journal Nature, found that Google > searches for influenza-related terms could actually predict, with high > accuracy, spikes in doctor-diagnosed influenza cases that only > registered on traditional surveillance networks a week or two later. > This study was conducted by Google in collaboration with the Centers > for Disease Control and Prevention, giving it substantial credibility. > > The underlying assumption is that when people start feeling sick, one > of the first things many of them do is check the Internet for medical > information, even before they see a doctor. Detecting an upsurge in > flu cases a week or two earlier than normal could provide substantial > health benefits. Doctors and clinics could stock up and dispense > vaccines and antiviral medicines in time to help patients, hospitals > could prepare for an influx of sick people, and health officials could > alert the public. > > The approach has limitations. It is based on what search terms people > choose to use, which is subject to change and will need to be updated > frequently. It can sound a false alarm if lots of people start > searching for information even though they are not personally sick. It > provides no information on what strains are circulating or how > virulent they are. > > And, of course, it raises privacy issues. Google mitigates the privacy > concerns by revealing only anonymous, aggregated data, but there are > no clear legal or technological safeguards to prevent disclosure of > individual search histories should the courts or the government demand > it. Still, the potential benefits seem high and the risks containable > — for the flu in this country, and for other infectious diseases as > well. > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 3649 (20081128) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From guru at itforchange.net Sat Nov 29 01:00:24 2008 From: guru at itforchange.net (Guru) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:30:24 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience] Message-ID: <4930DA78.2010907@itforchange.net> MG Airport is north part of the city while the trouble was in the southern tip you should have no problems only you could ask for the airport staff to route you from the international airport to domestic airport through INSIDE route (which is 3-4 kms away though they share the same infrastructure internally) rather than OUTSIDE so that you dont have to come out of the airport. even if you have to should be ok, since early morning you will make the journey in 10 mts. so basically should be fine. also the situation is now fully under control take care see you soon Guru Michael Gurstein wrote: > I'm scheduled to transfer via Mumbai from an international to a > domestic flight very early on Wednesday morning. > > Any advice would be welcome. > > MG > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com] > *Sent:* November-28-08 4:32 PM > *To:* governance at lists.cpsr.org > *Cc:* Ian Peter; Norbert Klein; katitza at datos-personales.org; Adam > Peake > *Subject:* Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good > experience > > Hello All, > > Any one who wants to avoid Bombay have several options: 1) fly > direct into hyderabad if there is a direct flight or 2) fly to any > of the cities - Chennai (Madras), Bangalore or Delhi (New Delhi) > which are all cities well connected by air to Hyderabad. > > The domestic and international terminals in Chennai and Bangalore > are NOT in separate locations. In Delhi they are in separate > locations, but transfers are usually taken care of the by the > airlines, there are courtesy coaches, and even if it is not > included, it is not a problem at all finding free or paid > transportation at $ 5 - $ 10 > > http://www.bengaluruairport.com/portal/page/portal/BIAL_PageGroup/BIAL_ARR_HOME > > http://www.chennaiairport.com/ > http://www.newdelhiairport.in/ > > Delhi Transfer Info > > http://www.aai.aero/igi/transport_facilities.jsp > > The experiences shared by Adam Peake, Ian Peter and Katiza should > encourage all to attend the IGF at Hyderabad, and I have no > hesitation in saying that it would be a normal experience in any > city other than Mumbai and that those traveling to Hyderabad will > be secure in Hyderabad and shall have a good experience. > > Welcome to the IGF. > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Guru > wrote: > > > Bangalore international and domestic airports are in the same > building and you can transit Bangalore to Hyderabad > > there are many other cities too which are connected to > hyderabad - Chennai, Kochi, Calcutta (apart from Delhi > /Mumbai) which are around an hour away from hyderabad. > > Mumbai airport is in the northern part of the city and the > shootings happened in the southern tip (CBD). so perhaps the > airport may get into normal mode > > but security everywhere will be very strong ... > > Guru > > > Ian Peter wrote: >> I do hope most of us can make it and there aren't too many cancellations. >> Just this morning I was able to secure an alternative route via Singapore to >> avoid Mumbai. >> >> I did have some trouble finding available Hyderabad tickets that didn't fly >> via Mumbai that were suitable - but an alternative seems to be to fly in via >> Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg (I understand at Bangalore >> domestic and international terminal are in one building) Our Indian >> colleagues might have some comments on that and whether it raises any >> particular problems. >> >> Ian Peter >> PO Box 429 >> Bangalow NSW 2479 >> Australia >> Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 >> www.ianpeter.com >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Norbert Klein [mailto:nhklein at gmx.net] >>> Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 >>> To: governance at lists.cpsr.org ; Adam Peake >>> Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience >>> >>> Thanks, Adam, for your personal observations, and for sharing Markus's >>> note. I >>> want to comment only on one point below. >>> >>> On Friday, 28 November 2008 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: >>> >>> >>>> At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: >>>> >>>>> Dear colleagues, >>>>> >>>>> each participant will have to decide >>>>> by himself or herself. >>>>> >>> Not only - both airports in Bangkok are still under siege and closed, and >>> it >>> is not sure if they will be open by Monday morning. >>> >>> Via Bangkok is the only route I could take... >>> >>> So if I don't show up, that is the reason, >>> >>> >>> Norbert >>> >>> -- >>> Norbert Klein >>> Phnom Penh/Cambodia >>> PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 >>> >>> If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us >>> regularly - >>> you can find something new every day: >>> >>> http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) >>> http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________ >>> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >>> governance at lists.cpsr.org >>> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >>> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >>> >>> For all list information and functions, see: >>> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >>> Internal Virus Database is out of date. >>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1808 - Release Date: 11/23/2008 >>> 6:59 PM >>> >> ____________________________________________________________ >> You received this message as a subscriber on the list: >> governance at lists.cpsr.org >> To be removed from the list, send any message to: >> governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org >> >> For all list information and functions, see: >> http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance >> >> > > -- > Gurumurthy Kasinathan > IT for Change > www.ITforChange.net > Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities > Tel:98454 37730 > http://ITforChange.net > http://India.IS-Watch.net > http://IS-Watch.net > *IT for Change is an NGO in Special Consultative Status with United Nations' Economic and Social Council* > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > -- > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > http://www.circleid.com/members/3601/ > http://twitter.com/isocchennai > -- Gurumurthy Kasinathan IT for Change www.ITforChange.net Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities Tel:98454 37730 http://ITforChange.net http://India.IS-Watch.net http://IS-Watch.net *IT for Change is an NGO in Special Consultative Status with United Nations' Economic and Social Council* -- Gurumurthy Kasinathan IT for Change www.ITforChange.net Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities Tel:98454 37730 http://ITforChange.net http://India.IS-Watch.net http://IS-Watch.net *IT for Change is an NGO in Special Consultative Status with United Nations' Economic and Social Council* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From bnkuerbi at syr.edu Sat Nov 29 12:50:45 2008 From: bnkuerbi at syr.edu (Brenden Kuerbis) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:50:45 -0500 Subject: [governance] IGF Workshop Invitation: "The Future of ICANN: After the JPA, What?" Message-ID: <28cfc1a40811290950y5b758e57v30328bcf1cbcf6d0@mail.gmail.com> *IGF Workshop 46: "The Future of ICANN: After the JPA, What?" * *Date: * Thursday, December 4, 2008 *Time: *11:00-12:30 (local Hyderabad time, 5:30-7:00 UTC) *Location: *Room 4, Hyderabad International Convention Centre *Online participation: * The IGF Secretariat indicates all workshops will be audiocast, questions can be submitted via email and public remote chat capability will be provided, see the host country website for further information. Check for updates on this at IGP blog < http://blog.internetgovernance.org/blog/_archives/2008/10/31/3950153.html> Co-sponsored by the Internet Governance Project (IGP), the Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus, Pharos Global and The Go Daddy Group, Inc., this workshop brings together several experts and practitioners in the field Internet governance to explore future models for governance of critical internet resources. ICANN, which coordinates and sets policy for the global domain name system (DNS) and IP addressing, is linked to the US Government through a Joint Project Agreement (JPA) that expires in September 2009. The JPA and its renewal process provides what, during WSIS, became known as "political oversight" over ICANN. The US government says that it is committed to "completing the transition" to private sector coordination of the Domain Name System, which implies an expiration of the JPA. During the recent mid-term review, ICANN made it clear that it also strongly supports an end to the JPA. ICANN's call was supported by some stakeholders, but others expressed concerns about ensuring its accountability without some kind of governmental oversight. This panel is designed to provide a careful and balanced exploration of whether ICANN is ready to be free of US government oversight, and if so what kind of external oversight - if any - should replace it. Panelists will be encouraged to provide specific models for ICANN's status and various oversight models and offer practical suggestions on how to make changes in the current situation. Advocates of retaining the status quo will also be represented. Moderated by IGP's Lee McKnight, panelists include: * Michael Palage, Attorney, former ICANN Board member, and consultant to several private sector domain name registries * Jean-Jacques Subrenat, ICANN Board and member of President's Strategy Committee * Milton Mueller, Internet Governance Project * Len St-Aubin, Director General, Telecommunications Policy, Industry Canada * Stefano Trumpy, Italian Government GAC representative and participant in the EU High Level Internet Governance Group * Tim Ruiz, VP, Corp. Development & Policy, The Go Daddy Group, Inc. IGP wishes you safe travels and looks forward to seeing you in Hyderabad! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From gurstein at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 14:49:48 2008 From: gurstein at gmail.com (Michael Gurstein) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:49:48 +0200 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <93DEB698939145DFA504FCA97240C64E@userPC> Thanks to everyone for their advice and suggestions... As it happens, I'm travelling from South Africa with SAA which only flies to Mumbai and which is keeping (at least at the moment) its flights to and from there (even though their flight crew was stuck under seige in the Oberroi for two days. So I'll be passing through Mumbai airport and as I've said to my wife, Mumbai airport will probably be one of the safest places in the world for the next few days (uncomfortable but safe... (my wife and I were in NYC during 9.11 and she will understand... MG -----Original Message----- From: George Sadowsky [mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.com] Sent: November-29-08 5:14 AM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Michael Gurstein Subject: RE: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience Michael, I was going to do that Tuesday morning, 24 hours before you, but Lufthansa cancelled their flight from Frankfurt to Mumbai. At no charge they changed my reservation to one through Bangalore, including booking the last leg on a domestic airline to Hyderabad. The international terminal and the domestic terminals in Mumbai are separated by a distance of 1-2 miles. I think that you have to go outside the airport building and around the airport to the other side. Check it with Google Earth. I'd rebook through another city if it is easy to do. George ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'm scheduled to transfer via Mumbai from an international to a domestic flight very early on Wednesday morning. Any advice would be welcome. MG -----Original Message----- From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com] Sent: November-28-08 4:32 PM To: governance at lists.cpsr.org Cc: Ian Peter; Norbert Klein; katitza at datos-personales.org; Adam Peake Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience Hello All, Any one who wants to avoid Bombay have several options: 1) fly direct into hyderabad if there is a direct flight or 2) fly to any of the cities - Chennai (Madras), Bangalore or Delhi (New Delhi) which are all cities well connected by air to Hyderabad. The domestic and international terminals in Chennai and Bangalore are NOT in separate locations. In Delhi they are in separate locations, but transfers are usually taken care of the by the airlines, there are courtesy coaches, and even if it is not included, it is not a problem at all finding free or paid transportation at $ 5 - $ 10 http://www.bengaluruairport.com/portal/page/portal/BIAL_PageGroup/BIAL_ARR_H OME http://www.chennaiairport.com/ http://www.newdelhiairport.in/ Delhi Transfer Info http://www.aai.aero/igi/transport_facilities.jsp The experiences shared by Adam Peake, Ian Peter and Katiza should encourage all to attend the IGF at Hyderabad, and I have no hesitation in saying that it would be a normal experience in any city other than Mumbai and that those traveling to Hyderabad will be secure in Hyderabad and shall have a good experience. Welcome to the IGF. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Guru wrote: Bangalore international and domestic airports are in the same building and you can transit Bangalore to Hyderabad there are many other cities too which are connected to hyderabad - Chennai, Kochi, Calcutta (apart from Delhi /Mumbai) which are around an hour away from hyderabad. Mumbai airport is in the northern part of the city and the shootings happened in the southern tip (CBD). so perhaps the airport may get into normal mode but security everywhere will be very strong ... Guru Ian Peter wrote: I do hope most of us can make it and there aren't too many cancellations. Just this morning I was able to secure an alternative route via Singapore to avoid Mumbai. I did have some trouble finding available Hyderabad tickets that didn't fly via Mumbai that were suitable - but an alternative seems to be to fly in via Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg (I understand at Bangalore domestic and international terminal are in one building) Our Indian colleagues might have some comments on that and whether it raises any particular problems. Ian Peter PO Box 429 Bangalow NSW 2479 Australia Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 www.ianpeter.com -----Original Message----- From: Norbert Klein [ mailto:nhklein at gmx.net] Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Adam Peake Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience Thanks, Adam, for your personal observations, and for sharing Markus's note. I want to comment only on one point below. On Friday, 28 November 2008 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, Markus KUMMER wrote: Dear colleagues, each participant will have to decide by himself or herself. Not only - both airports in Bangkok are still under siege and closed, and it is not sure if they will be open by Monday morning. Via Bangkok is the only route I could take... So if I don't show up, that is the reason, Norbert -- Norbert Klein Phnom Penh/Cambodia PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 If you want to know what is going on in Cambodia, please visit us regularly - you can find something new every day: http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1808 - Release Date: 11/23/2008 6:59 PM ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Gurumurthy Kasinathan IT for Change www.ITforChange.net Bridging Development Realities and Technological Possibilities Tel:98454 37730 http://ITforChange.net http://India.IS-Watch.net http://IS-Watch.net *IT for Change is an NGO in Special Consultative Status with United Nations' Economic and Social Council* ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy http://www.circleid.com/members/3601/ http://twitter.com/isocchennai ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From anriette at apc.org Sat Nov 29 15:13:55 2008 From: anriette at apc.org (Anriette Esterhuysen) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:13:55 +0200 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: <93DEB698939145DFA504FCA97240C64E@userPC> References: <93DEB698939145DFA504FCA97240C64E@userPC> Message-ID: <1227989635.6729.51.camel@anriette-laptop> Dear Michael I am also traveling through Mumbai on SAA, tomorrow (Sunday) and will actually check into a hotel near the airport until the early morning connection to Hyderabad. I really think our only concern should be for probable delays as a result of increased security. And the flight is bound to be fairly comfortable. I was told today that tomorrow's flight is quite empty :) See you all soon. Anriette On Sat, 2008-11-29 at 21:49 +0200, Michael Gurstein wrote: > Thanks to everyone for their advice and suggestions... > > As it happens, I'm travelling from South Africa with SAA which only > flies to Mumbai and which is keeping (at least at the moment) its > flights to and from there (even though their flight crew was stuck > under seige in the Oberroi for two days. > > So I'll be passing through Mumbai airport and as I've said to my wife, > Mumbai airport will probably be one of the safest places in the world > for the next few days (uncomfortable but safe... (my wife and I were > in NYC during 9.11 and she will understand... > > MG > > > -----Original Message----- > From: George Sadowsky [mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.com] > Sent: November-29-08 5:14 AM > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Michael Gurstein > Subject: RE: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- > good experience > > > Michael, > > > I was going to do that Tuesday morning, 24 hours before you, > but Lufthansa cancelled their flight from Frankfurt to Mumbai. > At no charge they changed my reservation to one through > Bangalore, including booking the last leg on a domestic > airline to Hyderabad. > > > The international terminal and the domestic terminals in > Mumbai are separated by a distance of 1-2 miles. I think that > you have to go outside the airport building and around the > airport to the other side. Check it with Google Earth. > > > I'd rebook through another city if it is easy to do. > > > George > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > I'm scheduled to transfer via Mumbai from an international > > to a domestic flight very early on Wednesday morning. > > > > Any advice would be welcome. > > > > MG > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com] > > Sent: November-28-08 4:32 PM > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > Cc: Ian Peter; Norbert Klein; > > katitza at datos-personales.org; Adam Peake > > Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to > > India -- good experience > > Hello All, > > > > Any one who wants to avoid Bombay have several > > options: 1) fly direct into hyderabad if there is a > > direct flight or 2) fly to any of the cities - > > Chennai (Madras), Bangalore or Delhi (New Delhi) > > which are all cities well connected by air to > > Hyderabad. > > > > The domestic and international terminals in Chennai > > and Bangalore are NOT in separate locations. In > > Delhi they are in separate locations, but transfers > > are usually taken care of the by the airlines, there > > are courtesy coaches, and even if it is not > > included, it is not a problem at all finding free or > > paid transportation at $ 5 - $ 10 > > > > http://www.bengaluruairport.com/portal/page/portal/BIAL_PageGroup/BIAL_ARR_HOME > > http://www.chennaiairport.com/ > > http://www.newdelhiairport.in/ > > > > Delhi Transfer Info > > > > http://www.aai.aero/igi/transport_facilities.jsp > > > > The experiences shared by Adam Peake, Ian Peter and > > Katiza should encourage all to attend the IGF at > > Hyderabad, and I have no hesitation in saying that > > it would be a normal experience in any city other > > than Mumbai and that those traveling to Hyderabad > > will be secure in Hyderabad and shall have a good > > experience. > > > > Welcome to the IGF. > > > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Guru > > wrote: > > > > Bangalore international and domestic > > airports are in the same building and you > > can transit Bangalore to Hyderabad > > > > there are many other cities too which are > > connected to hyderabad - Chennai, Kochi, > > Calcutta (apart from Delhi /Mumbai) which > > are around an hour away from hyderabad. > > > > Mumbai airport is in the northern part of > > the city and the shootings happened in the > > southern tip (CBD). so perhaps the airport > > may get into normal mode > > > > but security everywhere will be very > > strong ... > > > > Guru > > > > > > Ian Peter wrote: > > > I do hope most of us can make it and there > > > aren't too many cancellations. > > > Just this morning I was able to secure an > > > alternative route via Singapore to > > > avoid Mumbai. > > > > > > I did have some trouble finding available > > > Hyderabad tickets that didn't fly > > > via Mumbai that were suitable - but an > > > alternative seems to be to fly in via > > > Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg > > > (I understand at Bangalore > > > domestic and international terminal are in > > > one building) Our Indian > > > colleagues might have some comments on > > > that and whether it raises any > > > particular problems. > > > > > > Ian Peter > > > PO Box 429 > > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > > Australia > > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Norbert Klein > > > > [mailto:nhklein at gmx.net] > > > > Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 > > To: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org; > > Adam Peake > > Subject: Re: [governance] > > Hyderabad and travel to > > India -- good experience > > > > Thanks, Adam, for your > > personal observations, and > > for sharing Markus's > > note. I > > want to comment only on one > > point below. > > > > On Friday, 28 November 2008 > > 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: > > > > > > > At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, > > > Markus KUMMER wrote: > > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > > > each > > participant > > will have to > > decide > > by himself > > or herself. > > > > Not only - both airports in > > Bangkok are still under > > siege and closed, and > > it > > is not sure if they will be > > open by Monday morning. > > > > Via Bangkok is the only > > route I could take... > > > > So if I don't show up, that > > is the reason, > > > > > > Norbert > > > > -- > > Norbert Klein > > Phnom Penh/Cambodia > > PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 > > > > If you want to know what is > > going on in Cambodia, please > > visit us > > regularly - > > you can find something new > > every day: > > > > http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) > > http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as > > a subscriber on the list: > > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, > > send any message to: > > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and > > functions, see: > > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > Internal Virus Database is > > out of date. > > Checked by AVG - > > http://www.avg.com > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus > > Database: 270.9.9/1808 - > > Release Date: 11/23/2008 > > 6:59 PM > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a > > subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send > > any message to: > > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and > > functions, see: > > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > -- > > Gurumurthy Kasinathan > > IT for Change > > www.ITforChange.net > > Bridging Development Realities and > > Technological Possibilities > > Tel:98454 37730 > > http://ITforChange.net > > http://India.IS-Watch.net > > http://IS-Watch.net > > *IT for Change is an NGO in Special > > Consultative Status with United Nations' > > Economic and Social Council* > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on > > the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any > > message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > -- > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > http://www.circleid.com/members/3601/ > > http://twitter.com/isocchennai > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > plain text document attachment (message-footer.txt) > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ anriette esterhuysen - executive director association for progressive communications p o box 29755 melville - south africa 2109 anriette at apc.org - tel/fax + 27 11 726 1692 http://www.apc.org ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From dcogburn at syr.edu Sat Nov 29 15:18:47 2008 From: dcogburn at syr.edu (Derrick L. Cogburn) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 15:18:47 -0500 Subject: [governance] IGF Workshop Invitation: "The Future of ICANN: After the JPA, What?" In-Reply-To: <28cfc1a40811290950y5b758e57v30328bcf1cbcf6d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <28cfc1a40811290950y5b758e57v30328bcf1cbcf6d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <358EF23D-9C0E-4C75-905E-41D4B0BC9F8A@syr.edu> Brendan, two quick things; 1) are you and everyone ok?; 2) if at all possible, can you help me with on the ground issues fir GigaNet remote participation? I have a team in place that can handle the actual sessions, but may need a bit of a hand with on the ground prep. Dr. Derrick L. Cogburn Syracuse University http://cotelco.syr.edu Sent from my iPhone On Nov 29, 2008, at 12:51 PM, "Brenden Kuerbis" wrote: > IGF Workshop 46: "The Future of ICANN: After the JPA, What?" > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008 > Time: 11:00-12:30 (local Hyderabad time, 5:30-7:00 UTC) > Location: Room 4, Hyderabad International Convention Centre > Online participation: The IGF Secretariat indicates all workshops > will be audiocast, questions can be submitted via email and public > remote chat capability will be provided, see the host country > website for further information. Check for > updates on this at IGP blog > > > > Co-sponsored by the Internet Governance Project (IGP), the Civil > Society Internet Governance Caucus, Pharos Global and The Go Daddy > Group, Inc., this workshop brings together several experts and > practitioners in the field Internet governance to explore future > models for governance of critical internet resources. > > ICANN, which coordinates and sets policy for the global domain name > system (DNS) and IP addressing, is linked to the US Government > through a Joint Project Agreement (JPA) that expires in September > 2009. The JPA and its renewal process provides what, during WSIS, > became known as "political oversight" over ICANN. The US government > says that it is committed to "completing the transition" to private > sector coordination of the Domain Name System, which implies an > expiration of the JPA. During the recent mid-term review, ICANN made > it clear that it also strongly supports an end to the JPA. ICANN's > call was supported by some stakeholders, but others expressed > concerns about ensuring its accountability without some kind of > governmental oversight. > > This panel is designed to provide a careful and balanced exploration > of whether ICANN is ready to be free of US government oversight, and > if so what kind of external oversight - if any - should replace it. > Panelists will be encouraged to provide specific models for ICANN's > status and various oversight models and offer practical suggestions > on how to make changes in the current situation. Advocates of > retaining the status quo will also be represented. > > Moderated by IGP's Lee McKnight, panelists include: > > * Michael Palage, Attorney, former ICANN Board member, and > consultant to several private sector domain name registries > * Jean-Jacques Subrenat, ICANN Board and member of President's > Strategy Committee > * Milton Mueller, Internet Governance Project > * Len St-Aubin, Director General, Telecommunications Policy, > Industry Canada > * Stefano Trumpy, Italian Government GAC representative and > participant in the EU High Level Internet Governance Group > * Tim Ruiz, VP, Corp. Development & Policy, The Go Daddy Group, > Inc. > > > IGP wishes you safe travels and looks forward to seeing you in > Hyderabad! > > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com Fri Nov 28 22:14:44 2008 From: jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com (Jeffrey A. Williams) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2008 19:14:44 -0800 Subject: [governance] IGF Workshop Invitation: "The Future of ICANN: Afterthe References: <28cfc1a40811290950y5b758e57v30328bcf1cbcf6d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4930B3A4.4822F953@ix.netcom.com> Brenden and all, The future of ICANN and the JPA in some 14 months form now will be pretty much the same as it is now. And that will be a better choice that any other that can be foreseen presently, and certainly better that the ITU or some other hybrid UN organization, or even ICANN taking over without supervision of the good old US of A, DOC/NTIA, even though DOC/NTIA could do with some improvement. Well that's our members "Workshop" pretty much.... Brenden Kuerbis wrote: > IGF Workshop 46: "The Future of ICANN: After the JPA, What?" > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008 > Time: 11:00-12:30 (local Hyderabad time, 5:30-7:00 UTC) > Location: Room 4, Hyderabad International Convention Centre > Online participation: The IGF Secretariat indicates all workshops > will be audiocast, questions can be submitted via email and public > remote chat capability will be provided, see the host country website > for further information. Check for updates on > this at IGP blog > > > > > Co-sponsored by the Internet Governance Project (IGP), the Civil > Society Internet Governance Caucus, Pharos Global and The Go Daddy > Group, Inc., this workshop brings together several experts and > practitioners in the field Internet governance to explore future > models for governance of critical internet resources. > > ICANN, which coordinates and sets policy for the global domain name > system (DNS) and IP addressing, is linked to the US Government through > a Joint Project Agreement (JPA) that expires in September 2009. The > JPA and its renewal process provides what, during WSIS, became known > as "political oversight" over ICANN. The US government says that it is > committed to "completing the transition" to private sector > coordination of the Domain Name System, which implies an expiration of > the JPA. During the recent mid-term review, ICANN made it clear that > it also strongly supports an end to the JPA. ICANN's call was > supported by some stakeholders, but others expressed concerns about > ensuring its accountability without some kind of governmental > oversight. > > This panel is designed to provide a careful and balanced exploration > of whether ICANN is ready to be free of US government oversight, and > if so what kind of external oversight - if any - should replace it. > Panelists will be encouraged to provide specific models for ICANN's > status and various oversight models and offer practical suggestions on > how to make changes in the current situation. Advocates of retaining > the status quo will also be represented. > > Moderated by IGP's Lee McKnight, panelists include: > > * Michael Palage, Attorney, former ICANN Board member, and > consultant to several private sector domain name registries > * Jean-Jacques Subrenat, ICANN Board and member of President's > Strategy Committee > * Milton Mueller, Internet Governance Project > * Len St-Aubin, Director General, Telecommunications Policy, > Industry Canada > * Stefano Trumpy, Italian Government GAC representative and > participant in the EU High Level Internet Governance Group > * Tim Ruiz, VP, Corp. Development & Policy, The Go Daddy Group, > Inc. > > > IGP wishes you safe travels and looks forward to seeing you in > Hyderabad! > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > Regards, Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 284k members/stakeholders strong!) "Obedience of the law is the greatest freedom" - Abraham Lincoln "YES WE CAN!" Barack ( Berry ) Obama "Credit should go with the performance of duty and not with what is very often the accident of glory" - Theodore Roosevelt "If the probability be called P; the injury, L; and the burden, B; liability depends upon whether B is less than L multiplied by P: i.e., whether B is less than PL." United States v. Carroll Towing (159 F.2d 169 [2d Cir. 1947] =============================================================== Updated 1/26/04 CSO/DIR. Internet Network Eng. SR. Eng. Network data security IDNS. div. of Information Network Eng. INEG. INC. ABA member in good standing member ID 01257402 E-Mail jwkckid1 at ix.netcom.com My Phone: 214-244-4827 ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu Sat Nov 29 22:57:04 2008 From: David_Allen_AB63 at post.harvard.edu (David Allen) Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:57:04 -0500 Subject: [governance] RE: ITU and ICANN - a loveless forced marriage In-Reply-To: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> References: <16329BE3074F4ED280A7FBCF298C19CA@IAN> Message-ID: At 4:32 PM +1100 11/9/08, Ian Peter wrote: >The telling statement from ITU being "I am personally of the opinion >that the IGF is continuously going round in circles and avoiding >issues - it is becoming more and more a waste of time." > >Interested in analysis of how we can avoid this. One suggestion: http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/Contributions-Sept_2008/IGF%20multi-stakeholderism%20-%20D%20Allen.pdf >My fear here is that the outcomes if IGF doesn't succeed in >addressing the real issues are worse than those ... >Ian Peter Sorry for the delay in responding, David -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From isolatedn at gmail.com Sat Nov 29 23:08:17 2008 From: isolatedn at gmail.com (Sivasubramanian Muthusamy) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 09:38:17 +0530 Subject: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- good experience In-Reply-To: <1227989635.6729.51.camel@anriette-laptop> References: <93DEB698939145DFA504FCA97240C64E@userPC> <1227989635.6729.51.camel@anriette-laptop> Message-ID: Hello All, Yes, that is true. The operations in Mumbai are over, the National Security Guard appears to be in full control of the situation. At Mumbai Airport there would be high security measures, but the airport is bound to be safe. Those who have scheduled to fly through Mumbai may not really have to bother re-routing now. Sivasubramanian Muthusamy On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 1:43 AM, Anriette Esterhuysen wrote: > Dear Michael > > I am also traveling through Mumbai on SAA, tomorrow (Sunday) and will > actually check into a hotel near the airport until the early morning > connection to Hyderabad. > > I really think our only concern should be for probable delays as a > result of increased security. > > And the flight is bound to be fairly comfortable. I was told today that > tomorrow's flight is quite empty :) > > See you all soon. > > Anriette > > On Sat, 2008-11-29 at 21:49 +0200, Michael Gurstein wrote: > > Thanks to everyone for their advice and suggestions... > > > > As it happens, I'm travelling from South Africa with SAA which only > > flies to Mumbai and which is keeping (at least at the moment) its > > flights to and from there (even though their flight crew was stuck > > under seige in the Oberroi for two days. > > > > So I'll be passing through Mumbai airport and as I've said to my wife, > > Mumbai airport will probably be one of the safest places in the world > > for the next few days (uncomfortable but safe... (my wife and I were > > in NYC during 9.11 and she will understand... > > > > MG > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: George Sadowsky [mailto:george.sadowsky at gmail.com] > > Sent: November-29-08 5:14 AM > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org; Michael Gurstein > > Subject: RE: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to India -- > > good experience > > > > > > Michael, > > > > > > I was going to do that Tuesday morning, 24 hours before you, > > but Lufthansa cancelled their flight from Frankfurt to Mumbai. > > At no charge they changed my reservation to one through > > Bangalore, including booking the last leg on a domestic > > airline to Hyderabad. > > > > > > The international terminal and the domestic terminals in > > Mumbai are separated by a distance of 1-2 miles. I think that > > you have to go outside the airport building and around the > > airport to the other side. Check it with Google Earth. > > > > > > I'd rebook through another city if it is easy to do. > > > > > > George > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > > > > > > > > I'm scheduled to transfer via Mumbai from an international > > > to a domestic flight very early on Wednesday morning. > > > > > > Any advice would be welcome. > > > > > > MG > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > [mailto:isolatedn at gmail.com] > > > Sent: November-28-08 4:32 PM > > > To: governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > Cc: Ian Peter; Norbert Klein; > > > katitza at datos-personales.org; Adam Peake > > > Subject: Re: [governance] Hyderabad and travel to > > > India -- good experience > > > Hello All, > > > > > > Any one who wants to avoid Bombay have several > > > options: 1) fly direct into hyderabad if there is a > > > direct flight or 2) fly to any of the cities - > > > Chennai (Madras), Bangalore or Delhi (New Delhi) > > > which are all cities well connected by air to > > > Hyderabad. > > > > > > The domestic and international terminals in Chennai > > > and Bangalore are NOT in separate locations. In > > > Delhi they are in separate locations, but transfers > > > are usually taken care of the by the airlines, there > > > are courtesy coaches, and even if it is not > > > included, it is not a problem at all finding free or > > > paid transportation at $ 5 - $ 10 > > > > > > > http://www.bengaluruairport.com/portal/page/portal/BIAL_PageGroup/BIAL_ARR_HOME > > > http://www.chennaiairport.com/ > > > http://www.newdelhiairport.in/ > > > > > > Delhi Transfer Info > > > > > > http://www.aai.aero/igi/transport_facilities.jsp > > > > > > The experiences shared by Adam Peake, Ian Peter and > > > Katiza should encourage all to attend the IGF at > > > Hyderabad, and I have no hesitation in saying that > > > it would be a normal experience in any city other > > > than Mumbai and that those traveling to Hyderabad > > > will be secure in Hyderabad and shall have a good > > > experience. > > > > > > Welcome to the IGF. > > > > > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Guru > > > wrote: > > > > > > Bangalore international and domestic > > > airports are in the same building and you > > > can transit Bangalore to Hyderabad > > > > > > there are many other cities too which are > > > connected to hyderabad - Chennai, Kochi, > > > Calcutta (apart from Delhi /Mumbai) which > > > are around an hour away from hyderabad. > > > > > > Mumbai airport is in the northern part of > > > the city and the shootings happened in the > > > southern tip (CBD). so perhaps the airport > > > may get into normal mode > > > > > > but security everywhere will be very > > > strong ... > > > > > > Guru > > > > > > > > > Ian Peter wrote: > > > > I do hope most of us can make it and there > > > > aren't too many cancellations. > > > > Just this morning I was able to secure an > > > > alternative route via Singapore to > > > > avoid Mumbai. > > > > > > > > I did have some trouble finding available > > > > Hyderabad tickets that didn't fly > > > > via Mumbai that were suitable - but an > > > > alternative seems to be to fly in via > > > > Bangalore and then do a short domestic leg > > > > (I understand at Bangalore > > > > domestic and international terminal are in > > > > one building) Our Indian > > > > colleagues might have some comments on > > > > that and whether it raises any > > > > particular problems. > > > > > > > > Ian Peter > > > > PO Box 429 > > > > Bangalow NSW 2479 > > > > Australia > > > > Tel (+614) 1966 7772 or (+612) 6687 0773 > > > > www.ianpeter.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Norbert Klein > > > > > [mailto:nhklein at gmx.net] > > > > > Sent: 28 November 2008 12:50 > > > To: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org; > > > Adam Peake > > > Subject: Re: [governance] > > > Hyderabad and travel to > > > India -- good experience > > > > > > Thanks, Adam, for your > > > personal observations, and > > > for sharing Markus's > > > note. I > > > want to comment only on one > > > point below. > > > > > > On Friday, 28 November 2008 > > > 13:10:04 Adam Peake wrote: > > > > > > > > > > At 1:59 PM +0100 11/27/08, > > > > Markus KUMMER wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > > > > > each > > > participant > > > will have to > > > decide > > > by himself > > > or herself. > > > > > > Not only - both airports in > > > Bangkok are still under > > > siege and closed, and > > > it > > > is not sure if they will be > > > open by Monday morning. > > > > > > Via Bangkok is the only > > > route I could take... > > > > > > So if I don't show up, that > > > is the reason, > > > > > > > > > Norbert > > > > > > -- > > > Norbert Klein > > > Phnom Penh/Cambodia > > > PGP key-id 0x0016D0A9 > > > > > > If you want to know what is > > > going on in Cambodia, please > > > visit us > > > regularly - > > > you can find something new > > > every day: > > > > > > > http://cambodiamirror.wordpress.com (English) > > > > http://kanhchoksangkum.wordpress.com (Khmer) > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as > > > a subscriber on the list: > > > > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, > > > send any message to: > > > > > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and > > > functions, see: > > > > > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > Internal Virus Database is > > > out of date. > > > Checked by AVG - > > > http://www.avg.com > > > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus > > > Database: 270.9.9/1808 - > > > Release Date: 11/23/2008 > > > 6:59 PM > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a > > > subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send > > > any message to: > > > > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and > > > functions, see: > > > > > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Gurumurthy Kasinathan > > > IT for Change > > > www.ITforChange.net > > > Bridging Development Realities and > > > Technological Possibilities > > > Tel:98454 37730 > > > http://ITforChange.net > > > http://India.IS-Watch.net > > > http://IS-Watch.net > > > *IT for Change is an NGO in Special > > > Consultative Status with United Nations' > > > Economic and Social Council* > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on > > > the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any > > > message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Sivasubramanian Muthusamy > > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy > > > http://www.circleid.com/members/3601/ > > > http://twitter.com/isocchennai > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > > > > > > plain text document attachment (message-footer.txt) > > ____________________________________________________________ > > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > > governance at lists.cpsr.org > > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > > > For all list information and functions, see: > > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > anriette esterhuysen - executive director > association for progressive communications > p o box 29755 melville - south africa 2109 > anriette at apc.org - tel/fax + 27 11 726 1692 > http://www.apc.org > > ____________________________________________________________ > You received this message as a subscriber on the list: > governance at lists.cpsr.org > To be removed from the list, send any message to: > governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org > > For all list information and functions, see: > http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance > -- Sivasubramanian Muthusamy http://www.linkedin.com/in/sivasubramanianmuthusamy http://www.circleid.com/members/3601/ http://twitter.com/isocchennai -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance From correia.rui at gmail.com Sun Nov 30 11:19:02 2008 From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 18:19:02 +0200 Subject: [governance] Announcement Proposal IGF Dynamic Coalition Internetof In-Reply-To: <492F70E3.D442DDBD@ix.netcom.com> References: <492B600E.50701@ensta.fr> <49300C23.8030601@mdpi.net> <492F70E3.D442DDBD@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: Dear All and All I agree - quite "tangable". But then, it takes two to tango! And the tango is rather physical tangy too! On 28/11/2008, Jeffrey A. Williams wrote: > > > "Things" implies something tangable, > or physical. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- ____________________________________________________________ You received this message as a subscriber on the list: governance at lists.cpsr.org To be removed from the list, send any message to: governance-unsubscribe at lists.cpsr.org For all list information and functions, see: http://lists.cpsr.org/lists/info/governance