<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 11:16 AM, Mueller, Milton L </span><span dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" target="_blank">milton@gatech.edu</a>></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> wrote:</span><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Dave:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">If you think Parminder fears government involvement you are deeply confused and deeply out of touch with the real politics of Internet governance.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">​Milton - I'd go offlist since I write so much but you sent this to the lists.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I was writing carelessly when I said anything about Parminder's point of view, which I actually don't know in any depth. I was being polite and responding to his email. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The thing of substance I was saying​ had two parts. "<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">I'm sure folks like Vint Cerf support "multistakeholder" and "consensus" for honorable fear of governments." is meant exactly as it reads, and corresponds to what I said in an ISOC discussion of similar (where I also included Kathy Brown.) Vint had objected to my saying ISOC & ICANN excluding ~ half the Internet was an issue that needed to be fixed. But I don't believe Vint, etc. are taking that position to defend massive international surveillance. </span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">I do not attribute to Vint & others what I do believe is true of the U.S. government position for "multistakeholder" etc. I </span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Larry Strickling at WCIT said to me, as I included in the note, <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">"Dave, do you want Russia and China running the Internet." I do, actually, alongside other nations. China is now 1/3rd of the Internet. A system that excludes them is unstable.  (See the board of ICANN or ISOC.)</span><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">As I predicted, what's happening is the excluded are building their alternate institutions: BRICs agreements, World Internet Conference, Belt & Road extending to Europe and Africa, Russia's alternate root. <a href="http://netpolicynews.com/index.php/component/content/article/89-r/941-russia-orders-alternate-internet-system" target="_blank">http://netpolicynews.<wbr>com/index.php/component/<wbr>content/article/89-r/941-<wbr>russia-orders-alternate-<wbr>internet-system</a><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Which was in context here, because the debate over "enhance cooperation" is a reflection of the disagreement about government roles.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:14.4px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div>

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