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<p>Hi all, <br>
</p>
<p>I appreciate the point about looking at gender from all angles
including those of men. We in the Caribbean are in (probably) a
unique situation where women outperform men in various areas
(though not the important ones).</p>
<p>However, the IGF BPF on Gender is focused on<i> Internet access</i>.
Research (from the Web Foundation, ITU, and others) show that
globally when we look at access in terms of gender, women are less
likely to use the Internet than men. Thus, if we want more people
to get online and benefit from the Internet the way we do, we need
to address why this gap exists. In that sense, we therefore need
to focus on women and girls when it comes to access. This is why
the IGF BPF on Gender has this initiative now to identify ways to
improve women's access in these various areas.</p>
<p>Obviously, in some places women use the Internet at similar
levels of men. In fact in the Caribbean (for the few countries
where there data does exist), it appears that women are more
likely to use the Internet than men. However, that is not the
reality for most of the world. As the IGF BPF is global in scope
(and as long as globally the Internet use rate for women is less
than men) I think the focus on women in terms of gender and access
makes sense. <br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>take care,</p>
<p>Dhanaraj</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<div dir="ltr"> <font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">Dhanaraj
Thakur</font></div>
<div> <font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">Senior Research
Manager</font></div>
<div> <a href="http://a4ai.org" target="_blank"><font size="1"
face="verdana, sans-serif">Alliance for Affordable Internet</font></a></div>
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(USA)</font> <br>
<div> <font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">@thakurdhanaraj</font></div>
<div> <font size="1" face="verdana, sans-serif">PGP:
0xFCB84FE2A0E7C147</font></div>
<div> </div>
<b><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:'Lucida
Grande';color:rgb(81,144,50)">World Wide Web Foundation | </span></b><b><span
style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:'Lucida
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Washington DC 20005, USA.</span></b> </div>
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/03/2017 12:23 PM, Deirdre
Williams wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAMz5XN4POuq7ZKkkH9-gnm_H2+Cv4xMrmAjOMw2bAOCq5+T3vg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">Thank you Bishakha for supporting my argument - or
at least adding supporting material.
<div>This is the list of issues that was posted for comment:</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">a) Indigenous women</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">b) Refugee women</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">c) Women with disabilities</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">d) Young women</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-size:12.8px">e) Rural women</span><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Nowhere is there any
indication of the diversity of gender you describe.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">This is not to say that the
diversity is not being addressed, but in the interest of
creating an atmosphere of trust and a sense of fair play the
addressing needs to be SEEN to be done.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Do we need a change of
language - is the word "gender" itself part of the problem?
Or do we need a different perception of what gender is - a
spectrum rather than a dichotomy? (Although even that would
seem to exclude the un-gendered.) Should there be a Dynamic
Coalition on Women? But then where would the needs of
everyone else be addressed?</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Language and how it is
defined becomes more and more important to us as the
discussion spreads further and further. Language is the
first tool that we have to begin to find solutions to the
problems. As the discussion spreads so the number of
languages which must interact with one another becomes
greater and greater. Accurate translation requires a more
than casual understanding of the original text.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">So - back to the question -
how do we make "gender" work for us, ALL of us?</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Deirdre</span></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 3 October 2017 at 11:05, Bishakha
Datta <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:bishakha@pointofview.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">bishakha@pointofview.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hello all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wanted to jump into the discussion on the use of
the term 'gender'.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is a complex and multi-layered issue. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>At the IGF's Dynamic Coalition on Gender and Internet
Governance, which Jac is very much a part of and has
shaped since its inception, we talk about gender not to
mean one or two genders, but multiple genders - men,
women, trans persons etc. Several individuals all over
the world define themselves as neither male nor female,
which must also be taken into account in any discussion
on gender.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Even though we know that there are multiple genders,
the reason we focus on women and trans persons
(sometimes unnamed) in these discussions is simply
because women as a 'gender' lack power, resources,
opportunities, decision-making - both online and
offline. A focus on women in gender discussions does not
<i>exclude </i>men; it does the reverse. It actually <i>includes
</i>and brings women, who have traditionally been
excluded or under-represented, into the picture.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Increasing diversity always means looking at - and
taking measures to include - those who have
traditionally been excluded or under-represented. From a
gender perspective, this means women and trans persons.
From a language perspective, this means thinking about
languages that are under-represented online. From the
perspective of ability, diversity means taking steps to
include those who are seen as disability (eg
accessibility measures etc).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm making the broader analogies around diversity
only to demonstrate that the same 'rule' applies to
thinking around diversity and inclusion, not only in the
context of gender.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best</div>
<div>Bishakha</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5">On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Capda
Capda <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:capdasiege@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">capdasiege@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi Asène,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Tu soulèves là un très bon point. J'ai
toujours eu comme l'impression que la notion
du genre est considérée par la majorité qui y
défend comme la problématique de la femme, ce
qui constitue une erreur et un déséquilibre
grave. Vivement que nous puissions recentrer
cette notion importante pour la gouvernance de
notre société. Vive la diversité.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cordialement.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Hi Asene,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You raise a very good point here. I have
always had the impression that the notion of
gender is considered by the majority who
defend it as the problematic of women, which
constitutes a mistake and a serious
imbalance. We strongly hope that we can
refocus this important notion for the
governance of our society. Long live for the
diversity.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best Regards,</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="m_-3995775809335288027h5">2017-10-03
15:45 GMT+02:00 Arsène Tungali <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:arsenebaguma@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">arsenebaguma@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="m_-3995775809335288027h5">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Hi all,</div>
<div
id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div
id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature">Thank
you very much Deidre for raising
that issue with regards to "gender".
I tend to agree with you on all your
points and do believe we need to
reconsider the way we see/talk about
and define gender. </div>
<div
id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div
id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature">We
might run into the lack of balance
if we consider men, leaving women
behind and vice versa. Though i
believe we all fight for diversity.</div>
<div
id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div
id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature">Regards,</div>
<div
id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature">Arsene<br>
<br>
<div>-----------------</div>
<div>Arsène Tungali,</div>
<div><a
href="http://about.me/ArseneTungali"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">about.me/ArseneTungali</a></div>
<div><a
href="tel:+243%20993%20810%20967"
value="+243993810967"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">+243
993810967</a></div>
<div>GPG: 523644A0</div>
<div>Goma, Democratic Republic of
Congo</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Sent from my iPhone (excuse typos)</div>
<div>
<div
class="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090h5">
<div><br>
On Oct 3, 2017, at 2:41 PM,
Deirdre Williams <<a
href="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Dear Jac,
<div><br>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear
Jac,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">While I
support your work on
behalf of women and girls
I’m
noticing a trend which is
very disturbing – that is
the creation of “gender”
as
being synonymous with
“women/female”, at times
almost acting as a
euphemism.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Consider
what you wrote yesterday:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">the
multiple forms of
disparity and
discrimination that</span>
the diversity of women
face<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">and
what Michael wrote this
morning:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">To
put it mildly, helping
to empower women and
girls with meaningful
and sustainable access
is imperative
to our future</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Where
are the men? </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We seem
to be being driven into an
unfortunate case of
divide and rule. A huge
theme for the internet is
inclusion, and yet
“gender”
is excluding approximately
half of its population. So
if we want to say “women”
couldn’t we just say
“women”? Do we think it’s
a bad word? And if we’re
discussing gender,
couldn’t we include the
men too? For example there
might be
workshops considering
things from both sides,
offering a male
perspective as
well. Are there men who
facilitate internet access
for women? Are there men
who
actively block access? How
is this done and what
measures have been
implemented
to get round the blocking?
Are there men who are
themselves denied access
to
the internet?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The
human race is diverse, in
gender as well as in many
other things. Denying
diversity has been
demonstrated as an
unsuccessful way to
try to solve problems,
because the diversity
persists no matter how
much it is
denied.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What do
other people think?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best
wishes from the Caribbean
(where we have a concern
about the “marginalised
male”)</p>
<div>Deirdre<span
style="font-size:12.8px">.</span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
2 October 2017 at 05:52,
Jac sm Kee <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:jac@apcwomen.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jac@apcwomen.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">Much
thanks for all the
considered thoughts on
this issue. Being a<br>
committed advocate of
this issue, I appreciate
the reflection and<br>
insights on why it is
both difficult and
important to integrate
gender<br>
into IG and policy
conversations, including
and esp on access.<br>
<br>
I hope this thread of
discussion helped to
clarify why it doesn't
make<br>
sense to stack the
multiple forms of
disparity and
discrimination that<br>
the diversity of women
face before we take
action to address
whatever<br>
that is within our
ability, capacity and
responsibility to
address. Also<br>
happy to take this
conversation further if
more doubts or questions<br>
surface.<br>
<br>
In the meantime, we
continue to appreciate
your support in
responding to<br>
as well as disseminating
the survey to your
networks who do work in
this<br>
area.<br>
<br>
As a reminder, the
survey link is:<br>
<a
href="https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/783797/lang-en"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.apc.org/limesurvey<wbr>/index.php/783797/lang-en</a><br>
<br>
Best,<br>
jac<br>
<div
class="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173HOEnZb">
<div
class="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173h5"><br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>---<br>
Jac sm Kee<br>
Manager, Women's
Rights Programme<br>
Association for
Progressive
Communications<br>
<a
href="http://www.apc.org"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.apc.org</a>
| <a
href="http://www.takebackthetech.net"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.takebackthetech.net</a>
| <a
href="http://erotics.apc.org"
rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">erotics.apc.org</a><br>
Jitsi: jacsmk |
Skype: jacsmk |
Twitter: @jhybe<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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-- <br>
<div
class="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">“The fundamental cure for poverty is
not money but knowledge"
Sir William Arthur Lewis,
Nobel Prize Economics,
1979</div>
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">“The
fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir
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