<div dir="ltr">Thank you Bishakha for supporting my argument - or at least adding supporting material.<div>This is the list of issues that was posted for comment:</div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">a) Indigenous women</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">b) Refugee women</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">c) Women with disabilities</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">d) Young women</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">e) Rural women</span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Nowhere is there any indication of the diversity of gender you describe.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">This is not to say that the diversity is not being addressed, but in the interest of creating an atmosphere of trust and a sense of fair play the addressing needs to be SEEN to be done.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Do we need a change of language - is the word "gender" itself part of the problem? Or do we need a different perception of what gender is - a spectrum rather than a dichotomy? (Although even that would seem to exclude the un-gendered.) Should there be a Dynamic Coalition on Women? But then where would the needs of everyone else be addressed?</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Language and how it is defined becomes more and more important to us as the discussion spreads further and further. Language is the first tool that we have to begin to find solutions to the problems. As the discussion spreads so the number of languages which must interact with one another becomes greater and greater. Accurate translation requires a more than casual understanding of the original text.</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">So - back to the question - how do we make "gender" work for us, ALL of us?</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Deirdre</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 3 October 2017 at 11:05, Bishakha Datta <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bishakha@pointofview.org" target="_blank">bishakha@pointofview.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hello all,<div><br></div><div>I wanted to jump into the discussion on the use of the term 'gender'.</div><div><br></div><div>This is a complex and multi-layered issue. </div><div><br></div><div>At the IGF's Dynamic Coalition on Gender and Internet Governance, which Jac is very much a part of and has shaped since its inception, we talk about gender not to mean one or two genders, but multiple genders - men, women, trans persons etc. Several individuals all over the world define themselves as neither male nor female, which must also be taken into account in any discussion on gender.</div><div><br></div><div>Even though we know that there are multiple genders, the reason we focus on women and trans persons (sometimes unnamed) in these discussions is simply because women as a 'gender' lack power, resources, opportunities, decision-making - both online and offline. A focus on women in gender discussions does not <i>exclude </i>men; it does the reverse. It actually <i>includes </i>and brings women, who have traditionally been excluded or under-represented, into the picture.</div><div><br></div><div>Increasing diversity always means looking at - and taking measures to include - those who have traditionally been excluded or under-represented. From a gender perspective, this means women and trans persons. From a language perspective, this means thinking about languages that are under-represented online. From the perspective of ability, diversity means taking steps to include those who are seen as disability (eg accessibility measures etc).</div><div><br></div><div>I'm making the broader analogies around diversity only to demonstrate that the same 'rule' applies to thinking around diversity and inclusion, not only in the context of gender.</div><div><br></div><div>Best</div><div>Bishakha</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Capda Capda <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:capdasiege@gmail.com" target="_blank">capdasiege@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr"><div>Hi Asène,</div><div><br></div><div>Tu soulèves là un très bon point. J'ai toujours eu comme l'impression que la notion du genre est considérée par la majorité qui y défend comme la problématique de la femme, ce qui constitue une erreur et un déséquilibre grave. Vivement que nous puissions recentrer cette notion importante pour la gouvernance de notre société. Vive la diversité.</div><div><br></div><div>Cordialement.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div>Hi Asene,</div><div><br></div><div>You raise a very good point here. I have always had the impression that the notion of gender is considered by the majority who defend it as the problematic of women, which constitutes a mistake and a serious imbalance. We strongly hope that we can refocus this important notion for the governance of our society. Long live for the diversity.</div><div><br></div><div>Best Regards,</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_-3995775809335288027h5">2017-10-03 15:45 GMT+02:00 Arsène Tungali <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arsenebaguma@gmail.com" target="_blank">arsenebaguma@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_-3995775809335288027h5"><div dir="auto"><div>Hi all,</div><div id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature">Thank you very much Deidre for raising that issue with regards to "gender". I tend to agree with you on all your points and do believe we need to reconsider the way we see/talk about and define gender. </div><div id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature">We might run into the lack of balance if we consider men, leaving women behind and vice versa. Though i believe we all fight for diversity.</div><div id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature"><br></div><div id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature">Regards,</div><div id="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173AppleMailSignature">Arsene<br><br><div>-----------------</div><div>Arsène Tungali,</div><div><a href="http://about.me/ArseneTungali" target="_blank">about.me/ArseneTungali</a></div><div><a href="tel:+243%20993%20810%20967" value="+243993810967" target="_blank">+243 993810967</a></div><div>GPG: 523644A0</div><div>Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo</div><div><br></div>Sent from my iPhone (excuse typos)</div><div><div class="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090h5"><div><br>On Oct 3, 2017, at 2:41 PM, Deirdre Williams <<a href="mailto:williams.deirdre@gmail.com" target="_blank">williams.deirdre@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Dear Jac,<div><br></div><p class="MsoNormal">Dear Jac,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">While I support your work on behalf of women and girls I’m
noticing a trend which is very disturbing – that is the creation of “gender” as
being synonymous with “women/female”, at times almost acting as a euphemism.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Consider what you wrote yesterday:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">the multiple forms of
disparity and discrimination that</span> the diversity of women face<span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">and what Michael wrote this morning:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-size:initial;background-repeat:initial;background-origin:initial;background-clip:initial">To put it mildly, helping
to empower women and girls with meaningful and sustainable access is imperative
to our future</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Where are the men? </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We seem to be being driven into an unfortunate case of
divide and rule. A huge theme for the internet is inclusion, and yet “gender”
is excluding approximately half of its population. So if we want to say “women”
couldn’t we just say “women”? Do we think it’s a bad word? And if we’re
discussing gender, couldn’t we include the men too? For example there might be
workshops considering things from both sides, offering a male perspective as
well. Are there men who facilitate internet access for women? Are there men who
actively block access? How is this done and what measures have been implemented
to get round the blocking? Are there men who are themselves denied access to
the internet?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The human race is diverse, in gender as well as in many
other things. Denying diversity has been demonstrated as an unsuccessful way to
try to solve problems, because the diversity persists no matter how much it is
denied.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">What do other people think?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best wishes from the Caribbean (where we have a concern
about the “marginalised male”)</p>
<div>Deirdre<span style="font-size:12.8px">.</span><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 October 2017 at 05:52, Jac sm Kee <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jac@apcwomen.org" target="_blank">jac@apcwomen.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Much thanks for all the considered thoughts on this issue. Being a<br>
committed advocate of this issue, I appreciate the reflection and<br>
insights on why it is both difficult and important to integrate gender<br>
into IG and policy conversations, including and esp on access.<br>
<br>
I hope this thread of discussion helped to clarify why it doesn't make<br>
sense to stack the multiple forms of disparity and discrimination that<br>
the diversity of women face before we take action to address whatever<br>
that is within our ability, capacity and responsibility to address. Also<br>
happy to take this conversation further if more doubts or questions<br>
surface.<br>
<br>
In the meantime, we continue to appreciate your support in responding to<br>
as well as disseminating the survey to your networks who do work in this<br>
area.<br>
<br>
As a reminder, the survey link is:<br>
<a href="https://www.apc.org/limesurvey/index.php/783797/lang-en" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.apc.org/limesurvey<wbr>/index.php/783797/lang-en</a><br>
<br>
Best,<br>
jac<br>
<div class="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173HOEnZb"><div class="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173h5"><br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>---<br>
Jac sm Kee<br>
Manager, Women's Rights Programme<br>
Association for Progressive Communications<br>
<a href="http://www.apc.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.apc.org</a> | <a href="http://www.takebackthetech.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.takebackthetech.net</a> | <a href="http://erotics.apc.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">erotics.apc.org</a><br>
Jitsi: jacsmk | Skype: jacsmk | Twitter: @jhybe<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_-3995775809335288027m_9205752794877624090m_-7066055294212023173gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979</div>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">“The fundamental cure for poverty is not money but knowledge" Sir William Arthur Lewis, Nobel Prize Economics, 1979</div>
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