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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 27 May 2015 02:40 AM,
Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<br>
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<blockquote cite="mid:5564E14D.9000203@eff.org" type="cite">
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On 24/05/2015 11:57 pm, Ian Peter wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:CF50E28585184AFAA4BBC8D7F48AB245@Toshiba"
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
#000000">Secondly, I wonder how it would work in CS which
has so many people who are basically acting as individuals
rather than representatives of organisations. Many if not
most of us also have non CS affiliations (eg membership of
ISOC, business or governmental employees if we are cs
volunteers, academic postings etc) so the “pure” CS rep is
probably a bit hard to find. I am not sure what we would
gain by having a register of all our multiple affiliations
which would need regular updating to be of any use. I think
we need to ensure our major coalitions (BB, JNC, IGC, APC,
NCSG) act transparently, and by and large I think they do.
But I am not sure of the value of extending this to what is
probably tens of thousands of members or organisations
affiliated with these larger groups.</div>
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<br>
Agreed. I also feel that it's a misplaced priority. If any of us
actually had enough influence to being making significant impacts
on policy, then the expenditure of time and resources on
self-policing ourselves in this fashion might make some sense. </blockquote>
<br>
Why do then many civil society transparency initiatives exist at
all? And then isnt the whole idea of multistakeholderism about a
greater impact of civil society on actual policy making, which
simply raises the stake so much higher, and could only mean that
civil society transparency is even more needed in the IG space even
more than other spaces... You would argue for equal footing with
governments on the policy making table but not equal footing in
terms of transparency and accountability of civil society actors!? A
strange proposition, and if I remember right it is you who recently
spoke of open gov initiative and how it should be somehow extended
to the IG space. Open gov initiative is nothing if not about various
kinds of transparency and accountability in policy development
circles of all the involved actors. If anything, civil society
standards are supposed to be much higher bec it is the CS which
traditionally asks the most questions from others in these regard. <br>
<br>
I think you are making rather convoluted and weak arguments, many of
which cancel each other. It is extremely disappointing that this
discussion is taking place in this manner in what are supposed to be
two civil society elists/ groups of global repute. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5564E14D.9000203@eff.org" type="cite">But
since we have enough difficulty as it is just with being heard,
let alone having an impact, it just seems a real misallocation of
scarce resources for us to be placing ourselves under the
microscope like this, especially since nobody but ourselves is
raising the question.</blockquote>
<br>
If you think no one else is raising these questions, then you are
simply not listening. Political discourse at least in the South ,
but in fact also in the North, is rife with discussions about
transparency and accountability of all pulbic actors, including, and
often pointedly, civil society, and what kind of monumental
distortions get caused in default. Everyone from whom transparency/
accountability is sought would like to say that it is not an
impotant issue and the such, but that does not cut much ice. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5564E14D.9000203@eff.org" type="cite">
Instead of a register, there are already voluntary transparency
pledges that one can adopt (eg the INGO Accountability Charter, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.ingoaccountabilitycharter.org/">http://www.ingoaccountabilitycharter.org/</a>).
Anything heavier than that is, I feel, difficult to justify.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Here again you are arguing something in direct opposition to some of
your earlier arguments, about paucity of resources with civil
society orgs.. I am sure you would have seen the details of the
initiative that you link to, and therefore know that it is much much
more complex and demanding than a simple transparency register
(which also is of course voluntary, how else it could be?),
somewhat on the lines of the <a
href="http://ec.europa.eu/transparencyregister/public/homePage.do">EU
Transparency Register </a>, that I am proposing... So why and how
is a less complex proposal being confronted by a much more complex
and demanding option, while at the same time making the argument
that we dont have the kind of resources that are required, is simply
beyond me . <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5564E14D.9000203@eff.org" type="cite"> <br>
Also, take note of this article (from the left, by the way),
criticising efforts to enforce formal accountability standards on
civil society organisations:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://hapinternational.org/pool/files/ngos,-civil-soc.pdf">http://hapinternational.org/pool/files/ngos,-civil-soc.pdf</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Jeremy, again I wish you have read the details before you quickly
assembled this repertoire of evidences in support of what clearly is
a pre judged position, that global IG civil society does not need
any kind of a transparency initiative. Apart from the fact that the
central motivation of the article that you cite is to fend against
neoliberal attacks on civil society, which is hardly your case,
while the article explores issues with developing more complex
accountability systems for civil society, <i><b>it is strongly and
clearly for basic transparency of civil society groups</b></i>...
Quoting from its second last page, where it begins to build its
conclusions<br>
<br>
<blockquote>
<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm"><font face="serif"><font size="3">"The
key
to this must be, as SustainAbility (2003) so eloquently
demonstrate, transparency.
Who the organisation is; what it does; how it is funded; and
what the organisation
does with the money it receives are all essential as either
pre-requisites for the development of accountability
relationships,
or as a critical element in the discharge
of that relationship. This, it seems, could be a first
pre-requisite
for accountability:
and especially for NGOs as this would help to expose the
“astroturf” NGOs as
well as developing a more benign accountability amongst
those NGOs
with a genuine
concern for the wider public good."</font></font></p>
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</style>And then very significantly, in the concluding part, in fact in
its very last sentence, the article says:<br>
<i><b><br>
</b></i><i><b> </b></i>
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<p style="margin-bottom: 0cm"><i><b><font face="serif"><font
size="3">"... combination of minimum transparency plus a
level of accountability
commensurate with stakeholders, size and economic power
should
discomfort the astroturf and the explicitly
business-oriented NGOs
rather more than it will discomfort those NGOs that the
neo-liberal
backlash has been seeking to discredit. As such,
accountability seems
like a good thing."</font></font></b></i></p>
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</style>Did you forget to read this :)...<br>
<br>
You have to make up your mind whether you agree with the article you
quote or you do not.... IMHO, you are just assembling a desperate
case here.... One is so sorry, disappointed, and almost appalled
that we are having such arguments against basic transparency of
civil society.. <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5564E14D.9000203@eff.org" type="cite"> <br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Jeremy Malcolm
Senior Global Policy Analyst
Electronic Frontier Foundation
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Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161
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