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<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">Parminder, to be honest, this
dialogue to me exemplifies the problems with the dialogue here. You've
known me for many years and the positions I routinely take. We have had
this conversation before, I won't burden this list with a rerun. I won't be
replying further on this subject. Life's too short. </p>
</div>
<div style="color: black;">
<p
style="color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; margin: 10pt 0;">On
23 May 2015 8:19:49 pm parminder <parminder@itforchange.net> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0 0 0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left: 0.75ex;">
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Saturday 23 May 2015 11:19 PM, Nick
Ashton-Hart wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:14d81e52e30.27d1.9387b8a9f30986f905fcc4cfa238b71f@consensus.pro"
type="cite">
<div style="color: black;">
<div style="color: black;">
<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">Dear Parminder,
nobody can stop
you from assuming the worst, but that doesn't make it true.
Candidly, it
does increase the overall hostility on the list, which seems
to me the
opposite of what this liat needs. </p>
<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">As to your
question, which has
been asked and answered before several times in different
forms in this
list and the ICC list too, yes I am. Even more so given my
present
professional post ends in a few days at the end of this
month. <br>
</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Dear Nick, <br>
<br>
I am asking your present affiliation, about which I am still not
clear from the above. Even President Obama can claim he is civil
society person with a right to intervene in civil society procedural
discussions but then that would be odd, and unacceptable, isnt
it.... (And think of Obama trying to justify it by saying that he is
going to lay down office quite soon!) <br>
<br>
The website of your organisation IDEA, whose composition, purpose
and funding, I still do not yet understand, currently lists you -
apparently its only staff member - as ' Nick Ashton-Hart is the
senior permanent representative of the technology sector to the UN,
its member-states, and the international organisations in Geneva'. I
am not sure if IDEA can be considered as a civil society
organisation with its only staff being the rep of the tech industry
sector.... Really more than a bit funny, I must say. <br>
<br>
Let me tell you, any worthwhile civil society group I know would
find all this as extremely odd, and unacceptable. This strange
normlessness and corporate-friendly promiscuity in the IG civil
society is exactly what my earlier email was talking about. It is
this which does not allow global IG CS to develop the right
conceptions of public interest in global IG, much less let it fight
forcefully for it. I and groups I work with consider it an extremly
important issue in our civil society work, and would keep taking it
up forcefully.<br>
<br>
Best, parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:14d81e52e30.27d1.9387b8a9f30986f905fcc4cfa238b71f@consensus.pro"
type="cite">
<div style="color: black;">
<div style="color: black;">
<p style="margin: 0 0 1em 0; color: black;">
</p>
</div>
<div style="color: black;">
<p style="color: black; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,
sans-serif; margin: 10pt 0;">On
23 May 2015 19:24:46 parminder
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"><parminder@itforchange.net></a>
wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0
0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left:
0.75ex;"> <br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Saturday 23 May 2015 10:01
PM, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:080EAD77-A6DB-4916-BFA3-665A2B2C6385@consensus.pro"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">+1</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Not sure what you are plus-one-ing to, Nick, but if indeed
you want to make a spectacle of it, well fine by me... I was
trying a reasoned discussion on what kind of civil society
spaces we need to promote public interest but you dont seem
to be wanting any of it. You are baying for blood, so as to
say.<br>
<br>
So, let me ask you, since you are dispensing gratuitous
advice on what should be the nature of civil society, and
indeed what is an ok subject to discuss on the bestbits
list, are you a civil society member. Just a direct question
for self identification . Last time I checked BestBits was a
civil society coalition, and while it may be so that we may
not really be too fussy about people observing proceedings
and also maybe sometimes do a post or too, but you are
actually telling how bestbits group should conduct its
business, and I also have seem numerous comments of a
similar kind about the IGC list.<br>
<br>
Thanks for the information, and no offense personally. Your
example is quite a good and live one for my discussion on
the problematic construction of civil society spaces in the
IG area. I would have tried to not directly talk about it,
just not to hurt anyone, but since you are pushing the issue
hard I dont think I need to have any of such qualms. <br>
<br>
Have a good day! <br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:080EAD77-A6DB-4916-BFA3-665A2B2C6385@consensus.pro"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On 23 May 2015, at 17:42, Claudio Ruiz <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:claudio@derechosdigitales.org"><claudio@derechosdigitales.org></a>
wrote:
With all due respect, I don’t have the time neither the energy of answering
a 1,500 words email.
Happy to engage in long discussions face to face or with a beer. Not by
email in a mailing list. That’s the whole point, at the end.
Cheers,
—Claudio Ruiz
derechosdigitales.org | @claudio
PGP fingerprint
C40E 0C6E E7B2 FA91 D8A9 1FC4 74D2 5C4D B603 D089
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On 23-05-2015, at 4:32, parminder <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"><parminder@itforchange.net></a>
wrote:
(…)
</pre>
</blockquote>
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