<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">-1 on your comment Jeanette<br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br></span>
</span></span></span></span></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>"Words" are part of what makes the ground for getting the people together whether by raw consensus, flawed consensus, twisted consensus, even by democratic consent (Oh my Godness what did I write here?</div><div><br></div><div>UNESCO goes into banishing the word "democratic" thanks to US disgusting maneuvers, money, and their little doggies.</div><div><br></div><div>Democracy is a much more solid ground, when it comes to "governance" including in the field of public digital policies, much more than MSXXXism which is basically the best friend of vested US interests, and simply the opposite of democratic principles. We all know that.</div><div><br></div><div>Refusing to acknowledge that the US government fights any bit of ground to refuse a change in its status-quo domination of Internet is a shame. More of a shame is that people that declare themselves defender of human rights, still prefer to put democracy aside because it might be misused according to their knowledge. Using such empty arguments, like all of what we have seen so far, is simply not acceptable. </div><div><br></div><div>MSXXXism is not just constantly misused. It is undefined, though it is a mean of protection of the current asymmetry.</div><div><br></div><div>This UNESCO meeting is a milestone for any true civil society activist, as the betrayal of everything we are supposed to fight for.</div><div><br></div><div>Your reaction, and the attitude of people like Jeremy during the UNESCO meeting are just a shame. In front of history, you'll have to justify it with much stronger arguments.</div><div><br></div><div>In the meantime, we see a lot of misgivings from the US regarding surveillance, TLDs... The US show goes on with a great complicity of some so-called CS.</div><div><br></div><div>JC</div><div><br></div>
<br><div><div>Le 7 mars 2015 à 16:11, Jeanette Hofmann a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>+1<br><br>Isn't it amazing that civil society seems to have adopted the language games we observed governments playing over years during WSIS? So much waste of time and energy spent on terms that can mean so many different things.<br><br>Paradoxically, the normative substance of the term democracy may get lost by (mis-)using it strategically.<br><br>Jeanette<br><br><br>(...)<br><br> I<br><blockquote type="cite">have no problem with appeals to democratic values, but I'm aware that the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">concept of democracy has also been misused a lot in history, take the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">examples of the former German Democratic Republic(GDR), the Democratic<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Republic of Congo (DRC) or the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. It<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">would be good to work for a consensus on the understanding and role of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">democracy in the context of the internet among civil society and academia<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">first before forcing it into international documents.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Wolfgang Benedek<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Am 07.03.15 14:01 schrieb "Michael Gurstein" unter <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>>:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And to be very clear, in the case of "democracy" it wasn't simply a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">matter of the concept "not making it into the final document" but rather<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that those involved made the clear political choice to promote<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">"multistakeholderism" and suppress "democracy".<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">M<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-----Original Message-----<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org] On Behalf Of Norbert Klein<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sent: March 7, 2015 3:45 AM<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [governance] [bestbits] Remarks at UNESCO Closing Ceremony<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">of "Connecting the Dots Conference"<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On 03/07/2015 02:30 PM, Benedek, Wolfgang (<a href="mailto:wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at">wolfgang.benedek@uni-graz.at</a>)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">As a participant and speaker in the UNESCO conference Connecting the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">dots: Options for future action in Paris I think it is important to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">put the record straight: the main purpose of the conference was to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">give feedback to the UNESCO draft Internet study and advise on the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">future priorities in this field. This was done in several plenary and<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">16 breakout sessions in a MSH-approach quite successfully.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The fact that two concepts important to some did not make it into the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">outcome document should not be overestimated as this is all work in<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">progress. Also other concepts dear to others were not or only partly<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">included. I also do not remember that these concepts were elaborated<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">on during the sessions or panels in any significant way in order to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">deepen their understanding.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Wolfgang Benedek<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Dear Mr. Benedek,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">thanks for this, for this type of, clarification - using only formalities<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">like "Also other concepts dear to others were not or only partly<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">included."<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I cannot easily imagine what kind of "other concept" of a similar<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">importance and weight could be lined up with "democracy." I would<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">appreciate it if you, as a participant in this UNESCO conference, could<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">share some of these "other concepts" which were also not, or only<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">partially, included.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Thanks in advance,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Norbert Klein<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Cambodia<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">____________________________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To be removed from the list, visit:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">For all other list information and functions, see:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br>To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br> <a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>