<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Inline...<br>
<br><div><div>On 14 Feb 2015, at 22:26, JOSEFSSON Erik <<a href="mailto:erik.josefsson@europarl.europa.eu">erik.josefsson@europarl.europa.eu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div ocsi="0" fpstyle="1" style="font-family: OpenSans; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Hi Nick,<br><br>I cannot make sense out of your first paragraph if you mean to say that most stakeholders who participate in the core Internet Governance policy discussions don't cover most processes where Internet policy is being discussed :-)<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That is in fact what I'm saying: the overwhelming majority of those who attend IGF, ICANN, some ITU, CSTD don't attend HRC, HR and Business Forum - and basically none participate in WTO policy on a continuing basis - just to name three.</div><div><br></div><div>Is this bad? Perhaps; depends upon your point of view. </div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div ocsi="0" fpstyle="1" style="font-family: OpenSans; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><br>Unless "core Internet Governance policy discussions" actually are disjunct from "processes where Internet policy is being discussed", in the sense that processes like this one (on this very mailing list) have no impact whatsoever on the "core" :-(<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Not sure what you mean here. By 'Core IG processes' I'm speaking of the policies related to the network, separate from policy activities that relate to the data that traverses the network. </div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div ocsi="0" fpstyle="1" style="font-family: OpenSans; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><br>That in turn unfortunately maps perfectly on the classic perception that there are stakeholders on the inside/core and powerless citizens on the outside/periphery.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Ah - well, that's certainly not what I mean (see above).</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div ocsi="0" fpstyle="1" style="font-family: OpenSans; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;"><br>Which in turn maps again on mainframe<->terminal, client<->server, clouds<->apps.<br><br>Hope you all already saw this keunote:<br><br><blockquote><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOcpDsDSWY0" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOcpDsDSWY0</a><br></blockquote><br>Best regards.<br><br>//Erik<br><br><br><br><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px;"><hr tabindex="-1"><div id="divRpF434758" style="direction: ltr;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a> [<a href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>] on behalf of Nick Ashton-Hart [<a href="mailto:nashton@consensus.pro">nashton@consensus.pro</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday 14 February 2015 13:36<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>JOSEFSSON Erik<br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>parminder; <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [bestbits] Draft joint statement on European Parliament IGF resolution<br></font><br></div><div></div><div>Dear Erik,<div><br></div><div>I understand your surprise that many didn't know that the EP was dealing with this, but the reality is: most of the processes where Internet policy is being discussed are not covered by the overwhelming majority of the stakeholders who participate in the core Internet Governance policy discussions.</div><div><br></div><div>Below is a note I prepared for a few of the organisations I work with which just focusses on Geneva; there are many more.</div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-family: DroidSans;">---</span><br><font face="DroidSans" color="#007316"><br></font><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; line-height: 1.15; white-space: pre-wrap;">In 2015, Geneva will be the home of key processes that will have profound impacts on the Internet as a whole - and almost none of them are covered by the existing Internet
Governance focussed policy community. Here’s a short overview:</span></div><div><font face="Droid Serif"><span style="line-height: 18px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br>
</span></font><div><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: OpenSans;"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class="h5"><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto;"><div style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="font-family: DroidSans;">---</div><div style="font-family: DroidSans;"><br></div><div style="font-family: DroidSans;"><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; font-family: OpenSans; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">In 2015, Geneva will be the home of key processes that will have profound impacts on the Internet as a whole - and almost none of them are covered by the existing Internet
Governance focussed policy community. Here’s a short overview:</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; font-family: OpenSans; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Privacy and Data Protection</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; font-family: OpenSans; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">18 months ago there were few to no discussions of online privacy in Geneva. Post-Snowden more significant discussions began in the Human Rights Council but were focussed
on state surveillance practices. Now the discussions increasingly involve the private sector’s use of PII as well as state use and Western governments are increasingly (and inaccurately) conflating the use of PII by companies and governments - to try and get
the latter ‘off the hook'.</span></p><ul style="font-family: OpenSans; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><div style="line-height: 1.15; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">In the World Trade Organisation (“WTO”) the
</span><a href="https://docs.wto.org/dol2fe/Pages/FE_Search/FE_S_S009-DP.aspx?language=E&CatalogueIdList=129292,128589,127204,126879,126078,124972,124185,119666,77941,92922&CurrentCatalogueIdIndex=0&FullTextSearch=" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">US
proposed a three-pronged discussion of online commerce</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"> in November 2014, one element being data protection and privacy. Discussions are currently underway about how to discuss these subjects,
and particularly how they will be treated by the WTO Ministerial in Nairobi in December; that in turn will determine how they will be incorporated into the work of the WTO over the following two years. The ‘spade work’ being done this year in Geneva will be
critical to the way the entire discussion dynamic is constructed and whether it creates the possibility of constructive discussion - or simply more conflict - and whether or not linkages will exist with other public policy environments on the subjects in the
proposal, like human rights.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-size: 17px; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; vertical-align: baseline;"><h3 dir="ltr" style="line-height: 1.15; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">The negotiators for the
</span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_in_Services_Agreement" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Trade
in Services Agreement</span></a><span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"> (“TiSA”), representing 50 countries and the overwhelming majority of online services trade continue to discuss how to deal
with privacy issues in a trading context; this agreement, given its scope of countries, could have a very significant precedential impact on how transboundary privacy issues are dealt with - as well as so many other features of Internet activity (for more
on these issues see my CircleID post “</span><a href="http://www.circleid.com/posts/20141230_are_tisa_trade_talks_threat_to_net_neutrality_data_protection/" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Are
the TISA Trade Talks a Threat to Net Neutrality, Data Protection, or Privacy?</span></a><span style="font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">”)</span></h3></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><div style="line-height: 1.15; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">At it’s March meeting the Human Rights Council (“HRC”) is expected to appoint a new Special Rapporteur on Privacy as a follow-up to
the UNGA Resolution of December 2014 (</span><a href="http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N14/599/15/PDF/N1459915.pdf?OpenElement" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">A/RES/69/166</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">).
This is important because the terms of reference will directly influence the scope of the new SR’s work and reporting. This is one of two SRs dealing with Internet issues - both at the direction of the UN General Assembly - so they will and are having a significant
impact in NY and as a consequence travel far beyond Geneva - especially in a WSIS decennial review year.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">A host of other meetings will address privacy and data protection - including at UNCTAD (UNCTAD is to developing countries
as the OECD is to the developed world) in March (see below).</span></p></li></ul><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; font-family: OpenSans; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Online Trade</span></p><ul style="font-family: OpenSans; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><div style="line-height: 1.15; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">The US’
</span><a href="https://docs.wto.org/dol2fe/Pages/FE_Search/FE_S_S009-DP.aspx?language=E&CatalogueIdList=129292,128589,127204,126879,126078,124972,124185,119666,77941,92922&CurrentCatalogueIdIndex=0&FullTextSearch=" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">WTO
proposal on electronic commerce</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">’s non privacy elements are cross-border information flows and localisation requirements for hardware and services. These two elements are at the heart of
the global Internet, and any understanding of how they should work in a trading environment will have profound impacts on the way the Internet works for everyone. This is particularly true for those concerned with routing, interconnection and basic Internet
infrastructure like IXPs as well as human rights. This year will be the defining year for how these will be discussed over the subsequent two years.
</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><div style="line-height: 1.15; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">As mentioned the TISA talks on services are far larger than either TTIP or TPP as regards the Internet as they represent many more countries
and a larger proportion of services trade (which is how most consumer-facing online services are classified in the global trading system, for example). The negotiations take place exclusively in Geneva.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">UNCTAD hosts the
</span><a href="http://unctad.org/en/pages/MeetingDetails.aspx?meetingid=644" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Expert Meeting on Cyberlaws
and Regulations for Enhancing E-commerce</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"> 25-27 March. It provides a largely informal forum where developing countries can compare their legal developments in various areas of online activity
including security, consumer protection, privacy, and a host of others. There’s a strong focus on legal harmonization; several studies on the event website are salutary. There will be several other meetings and major publications related to electronic commerce.</span></p></li></ul><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; font-family: OpenSans; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Human Rights</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; font-family: OpenSans; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">The work of the Human Rights Council and its related bodies all takes place in Geneva. While in the past the HRC’s work has been seen as having perhaps less impact on the
world outside of its remit than might be desirable this is increasingly changing: where it relates to the Internet the UNGA is increasingly referring work to the HRC and then acting upon that work once it is concluded and inserting references to its products
in other resolutions.</span></p><ul style="font-family: OpenSans; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><div style="line-height: 1.15; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">At the Human Rights Council the Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression is preparing a report on the legal framework governing the
relationship between freedom of expression and the use of encryption to be released in June 2015.</span><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"> The report, and the debate which follows in the autumn HRC session, will undoubtedly have ripple
effects far beyond the HRC itself - expect to see this percolate into the UNGA in the autumn, likely including in the WSIS+10 negotiations and summit in December as it relates directly to surveillance and calls for ‘backdoors’ in encryption for state security
agencies.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">The next instalment of the “</span><a href="http://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/Business/Forum/Pages/2015ForumBHR.aspx" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">United
Nations Forum on Business and Human Rights</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">” Forum will take place in November; these routinely gather more than 2,000 delegates and very senior ministers and CEOs of some of the world’s
largest corporations attend and speak. Internet issues will continue to grow in importance due to the work of the HRC on Internet-related subjects increasing and a resolution calling for a treaty on the subject being passed by the HRC in 2013. Note that one
of the five foci of the conference is ‘Strengthening multi-stakeholder dialogue and engagement.” Worth reviewing is the foundational document for the conference and related work, the
</span><a href="http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/GuidingPrinciplesBusinessHR_EN.pdf" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Guiding
Principles on Business and Human Rights</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">.</span></p></li></ul><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; font-family: OpenSans; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">WSIS+10</span></p><ul style="font-family: OpenSans; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><div style="line-height: 1.15; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">ECOSOC’s
</span><a href="http://unctad.org/en/Pages/CSTD.aspx" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">UN Commission on Science and Technology for Development</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">
(“CSTD”) </span><a href="http://unctad.org/en/pages/MeetingDetails.aspx?meetingid=606" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">May 4-8 Meeting</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">:
This meeting will be devoted largely to the WSIS+10 review. Much of the positioning of countries will happen in advance; it is essential to influence positions of member-states in the lead up to the May meeting through bilateral meetings in Geneva.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">The annual
</span><a href="http://www.itu.int/net4/wsis/forum/2015/OCP/" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">WSIS Forum</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">
in May will be the last before the WSIS+10 Review; it will be composed of a high-level speaking segment and a series of senior-level roundtable discussions and at the end a series of seminars and workshops organised by stakeholders.</span></p></li></ul><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; font-family: OpenSans; line-height: 1.15;"><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">ITU</span></p><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; font-family: OpenSans; line-height: 1.15; margin-left: 36pt;"><span style="font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">The ITU always has a busy calendar of meetings with some nexus with Internet policy, from study groups to Council Working Groups to seminars. Below are only a few:</span></p><ul style="font-family: OpenSans; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><div style="line-height: 1.15; margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><a href="http://www.itu.int/en/council/Pages/default.aspx" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">ITU
Council</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">’s 2015 Session (12-22 May) will tackle various Internet issues, including the modalities of the open consultations of it’s CWG Internet (see below). Influencing member-states in
advance of the session through bilateral meetings in Geneva is key to getting constructive outcomes.</span></div></li><li dir="ltr" style="list-style-type: disc; font-family: 'Droid Serif'; vertical-align: baseline;"><p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0pt; margin-bottom: 10pt; line-height: 1.15;"><a href="https://www.itu.int/en/council/cwg-internet/Pages/default.aspx" target="_blank" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); text-decoration: underline; vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">Council
Working Group on International Internet Public Policy Issues</span></a><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;"> (“CWG-Internet”) May or October meetings will be preceded by an open consultation on the subject of IXPs as agreed at the CWG-Internet
meeting 3-4 February</span><span style="vertical-align: baseline; white-space: pre-wrap;">. It will be important that the discussion is preceded by dissemination of information about IXPs to member-states - ideally some face-to-face learning / educational sessions
- as well as active participation in the open forum and on government delegations at the CWG-Internet meeting itself.</span></p></li></ul></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><br><div><div>On 14 Feb 2015, at 10:34, JOSEFSSON Erik <<a href="mailto:erik.josefsson@europarl.europa.eu" target="_blank">erik.josefsson@europarl.europa.eu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" style="font-family: OpenSans; font-size: 16px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Dear parminder,<br><br>The amendment was tabled by MEPs Michel Ramon and Julia Reda on behalf of Greens/EFA (see attachment at the bottom of the mail in the mail archive):<br><br><blockquote><a href="http://icg.greens-efa.eu/pipermail/hub/2015-February/000209.html" target="_blank">http://icg.greens-efa.eu/pipermail/hub/2015-February/000209.html</a><br></blockquote><br>I am happy that you find it sane.<br><br><br>I do appreciate your points on 'post democratic ideologies'. Actually, if it would not have been for the exchange of views on these matters on this list and others, I believe that AM3 to Paragraph 6 would not have been tabled at all. Would there have been more time than 5 days for you and others who find AM3 sane to give it more public support, it could maybe have received more votes, and, also, the votes could maybe even have been recorded per individual MEP (a so called Roll Call Vote could have been requested).<br><br><br>Maybe you would find it useful to have a look at the possible strategic advantage of being more in sync with the mechanics of the EP through tools like AT4AM? Please then have a look at the this video:<br><br><blockquote><a href="https://vimeo.com/17598642" target="_blank">https://vimeo.com/17598642</a><br></blockquote><br>and the first instance of AT4AM running on a standalone server, here with two examples of documents (the first one is hand made, second is probably scripted) that it could be relevant to amend (not only directives and resolutions need patches):<br><br><blockquote><a href="http://ghajini.dfri.se:8080/at4am/editor.html?documentID=http://erikjosefsson.eu/sites/default/files/proposal-for-an-update-of-the-rules-of-procedure-for-the-greens-efa-staff-association.xml" target="_blank">http://ghajini.dfri.se:8080/at4am/editor.html?documentID=http://erikjosefsson.eu/sites/default/files/proposal-for-an-update-of-the-rules-of-procedure-for-the-greens-efa-staff-association.xml</a><br><a href="http://ghajini.dfri.se:8080/at4am/editor.html?documentID=6" target="_blank">http://ghajini.dfri.se:8080/at4am/editor.html?documentID=6</a><br></blockquote><br>Further exchange on this is welcome at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://at4am.eu/" target="_blank">https://at4am.eu</a><br><br><br>Best regards.<br><br>//Erik<br><br><br><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"></font></font><br><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px;"><hr tabindex="-1"><div id="divRpF153519" style="direction: ltr;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>parminder [<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday 14 February 2015 10:00<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>JOSEFSSON Erik;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [bestbits] Draft joint statement on European Parliament IGF resolution<br></font><br></div><div></div><div><font face="Verdana">Hi Erik<br><br>I can fully understand and appreciate your particular point and focus, from the vantage you are looking it from.<br><br>On my part, I just used a particular element of the process to make a rather different point, which remains a very important one in international IG discourse.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Please also see inline.<br><br></font><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Saturday 14 February 2015 02:17 PM, JOSEFSSON Erik wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Dear parminder,<br><br>It does not mean much in terms of content that an amendment tabled by a political group with ~7% of the seats in the EP does not get a majority.</div></blockquote><br>Just eager; which political group is this, becuase I do consider the amendment proposal to be very sane.<br><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Happens all the time.</div></blockquote><br>Maybe it happens. Nonetheless I am concerned that the majority actually rejected a proposal for explicitly making MS models democratically accountable. It says something to me, which I am troubled with.<br><br>parminder<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">One has to be aware of, and work with, the EP internal processes to get Good Stuff through. So, I would not worry much about the rejection of the amendment.<br><br>What I do worry about though is that it seems nobody on this list even knew about it until Carolina pinged on 7 February, 4 days before the vote.<br><br>Were there no public processes in the IG space preparing for the EP resolution before that ping?<br><br>Why?<br><br>//Erik<br><br><br><div style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px;"><hr tabindex="-1"><div id="divRpF583654" style="direction: ltr;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>] on behalf of parminder [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>]<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday 14 February 2015 05:02<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [bestbits] Draft joint statement on European Parliament IGF resolution<br></font><br></div><div><br><font face="Verdana">It is rather unfortunate, and perhaps ominous, that "democratically accountable mutlistakeholder model of IG' is dismissed in favour of just '</font><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana">mutlistakeholder model of IG'.<br><br>Does it mean that it is considered unnecessary for 'multistakeholder model(s) of IG' to be democratically accountable?<br><br>This is a very important question that must be addressed.<br><br>It is in this background that the Just Net Coalition has been making a distinction between an explicitly democratic multistakeholder (MS) models and those MS models that do not just avoid mentioning the term 'democratic' but often actively avoid it - as this particular amendment exercise seems to suggest. (A distinction that some people here have considered superfluous, and perhaps self serving!)<br><br>When I said 'ominous' above, I meant how the post democratic sentiment that took root at the 'global' 'IG' space has begun to spread downwards to spaces where the democratic tradition is otherwise rather well entrenched (and will also spread to non IG areas as well, such are the powerful forces backing the post democratic ideologies). One is so disappointed that this kind of thing should happen at a forum like the EU. But perhaps a good indicator and a warning, if we can use it as one, that we may be playing with fire in the unthinking promoting of some very problematic governance models in the global IG space, unmindful of their impact on democratic traditions.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>parminder<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br></font><br></font><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 12 February 2015 11:53 PM, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite">The final resolution did not contain the amendment:<br><br><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=MOTION&reference=P8-RC-2015-0099&language=EN" target="_blank">www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?type=MOTION&reference=P8-RC-2015-0099&language=EN</a><br><br>The relevant passage: " Stresses that it is firmly committed to the multistakeholder model of internet governance; calls upon the Member States, the Commission and all relevant stakeholders to further strengthen the sustainability of this model by making actors and processes at national, regional and international levels more inclusive, transparent and accountable;"<br><br><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/02/2015 12:49 pm, Carolina Rossini wrote:<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">+1 on Erik suggestion <div>Jeremy, is this still possible?</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 2:54 PM, JOSEFSSON Erik<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:erik.josefsson@europarl.europa.eu" target="_blank">erik.josefsson@europarl.europa.eu</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div style="direction: ltr; font-family: Arial; font-size: 10pt;">Please consider explicitly supporting the following amendment too:<br><br>AM 2 (to point 6):<br><br>"Stresses that it is firmly committed to a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>democratically accountable multistakeholder model</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of Internet governance; calls upon the Member States, the European Commission and all relevant stakeholders to further strengthen the sustainability of the multi-stakeholder model by making actors and processes at national, regional and international levels more inclusive, transparent and accountable;"<br><br>It should have been tabled less than an hour ago!<br><br>//Erik<br></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><br><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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