<p dir="ltr">Dear all,</p>
<p dir="ltr">The first time I heard this, I wondered the practicality and implication; so every bank in the UK will stop running on https, it also mean a typical UK govt official will be banned from setting up VPN link in other to have private conversations.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I believe UK govt knows the implication of banning encryption, however I think the collaboration between UK/US will be more about having a looking glass through the encrypted traffic which will also be good news to hackers ;-)</p>
<p dir="ltr">Cheers!<br>
sent from Google nexus 4<br>
kindly excuse brevity and typos.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 Jan 2015 07:41, "Nick Ashton-Hart" <<a href="mailto:nashton@consensus.pro">nashton@consensus.pro</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Dear Ian,<div><br></div><div>I hope we are all wrong in our pessimism. Personally I think the 'other side' will be too clever to go for outlawing encryption. They'll go for a populist conception like a 'front door' to break it when they 'need' access - it will sound great to the vast majority who don't understand there are no front doors, only back doors.</div><div><br></div><div>There will be strong opposition from industry, undoubtedly. However, countries are already conflating their use of data and that of the private sector precisely because it puts the private sector on the defensive. </div><div><br></div><div>There is division in the US Reps on this true - however that's far from the only country where this is playing out and in a number of European countries the laws are already pretty bad, and candidly I think there's far too much focus on the US changing its laws when this problem is inherently global, not national, and the fight is being lost, not won, more often than not; the obsession with US reform is sucking in an enormous amount of airtime and energy. I fear, very much, for my country, the UK - everything hangs on the election result.<br>
<br><div><div>On 20 Jan 2015, at 04:33, Ian Peter <<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word" dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri">
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;display:inline">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri">
<div>I tend to agree Nick – I thing there may be a strong push to outlaw some
sorts of encryption as part of a very strong push to increase surveillance in
coming months. However,</div>
<div>I think many industry voices will side with us in opposition to this. Plus
I would suspect republican majority in USA is divided on this. So I think the
debate could turn and we should make strong efforts.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>To me there is a strong argument that any steps to control encryption will
have no effect on terrorism at all, because new forms of encryption will evolve
anyway faster than they can be regulated. Just as any increases in mass
surveillance are unlikely to have any effect on terrorism whatsoever (see <a title="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26801-mass-surveillance-not-effective-for-finding-terrorists.html#.VL2JBEeUdVT" href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26801-mass-surveillance-not-effective-for-finding-terrorists.html#.VL2JBEeUdVT" target="_blank">http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26801-mass-surveillance-not-effective-for-finding-terrorists.html#.VL2JBEeUdVT</a>)
In both the recent Sydney and Paris incidents the people responsible were
already well known to police and under surveillance but that did not stop them.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>However, the efforts will create further extensive and widespread distrust
in the Internet. That is a serious problem.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>We will have strong allies here in both technical community and among
business interests.</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ian </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;display:inline">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="nashton@consensus.pro" href="mailto:nashton@consensus.pro" target="_blank">Nick Ashton-Hart</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 20, 2015 9:15 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="ian.peter@ianpeter.com" href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank">Ian Peter</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="carolina.rossini@gmail.com" href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com" target="_blank">Carolina Rossini</a> ; <a title="joana@varonferraz.com" href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com" target="_blank">Joana Varon</a>
; <a title="deborah@apc.org" href="mailto:deborah@apc.org" target="_blank">Deborah Brown</a> ; <a title="bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits] Call for Submissions for new UN study on use
of encryption and anonymity</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div style="font-size:small;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;display:inline">Sadly,
though I am not a betting man, I would put money on the premise that far from
surveillance reform in 2015 we will actually find we're fighting a pretty
desperate battle for things not to go badly wrong the other direction.
<div> </div>
<div>... and I would very, very much love to be wrong.<br><br>
<div>
<div>On 19 Jan 2015, at 23:04, Ian Peter <<a href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com" target="_blank">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a>>
wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="WHITE-SPACE:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT:16px opensans;LETTER-SPACING:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px">I
think a response is extremely important, having just read this.<br><br><a href="http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/obama-announces-new-cyber-war-games-partnership-with-great-britain-20150116" target="_blank">http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/obama-announces-new-cyber-war-games-partnership-with-great-britain-20150116</a><br><br>It
suggests that Obama may side with UK in trying to outlaw strong
encryption<br><br>Ian<br><br>From: Carolina Rossini<span> </span><br>Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015
8:25 AM<br>To: Joana Varon<span> </span><br>Cc: Deborah Brown ;<span> </span><a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><span> </span><br>Subject: Re: [bestbits] Call for
Submissions for new UN study on use of encryption and anonymity<br><br>Do we
want to send something as BestBits?<span> </span><br>Folks from the list, any interest
for a collective input?<br><br>On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 1:42 PM, Joana Varon
<<a href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com" target="_blank">joana@varonferraz.com</a>>
wrote:<br><br>Very important. Thanks for sharing. Will be happy to produce
inputs from the Brazilian Perspective. If anyone from Latam also want to do
so, please, ping me and we can do something regional.<span> </span><br>best<br>jo<br><br><br>On 19
January 2015 16:09:48 GMT-02:00, Deborah Brown <<a href="mailto:deborah@apc.org" target="_blank">deborah@apc.org</a>> wrote:<br>-----BEGIN PGP
SIGNED MESSAGE-----Hash: SHA512Dear all,In case of interest, the new UN
Special Rapporteur David Kaye is lookingat the use of encryption and anonymity
in his first report and isencouraging input from civil society. The deadline
is 10 Feb.Best,<a>Deborahhttp://www.ohchr.org/EN/Issues/FreedomOpinion/Pages/CallForSubmission.aspx</a>
Special Rapporteur will study the use of encryption and anonymityin digital
communications in his 2015 HRC reportThe Special Rapporteur on the protection
and promotion of the right tofreedom of opinion and expression, David Kaye, is
currently preparing areport on the legal framework governing the relationship
between freedomof expression and the use of encryption to secure transactions
andcommunications, and other technologies to transact and
communicateanonymously online. This report will be presented to the Human
RightsCouncil in June, 2015.To prepare his study, Mr. Kaye is gathering
information on nationallaws, regulations, policies or practices that permit or
limit, directlyor indirectly, the use of encryption technologies and services
or theability of individuals to communicate anonymously online. All States
arebeing asked called to submit information on their relevant nationalnorms
and policies.Similarly, the Special Rapporteur would like to encourage all
interestednon-governmental stakeholders – including civil society,
corporateactors, international and regional organizations, and national
humanrights institutions – to provide their views on the appropriate scope
ofthe right to freedom of expression as applied to encryption andanonymity. He
would particularly appreciate receiving commentsaddressing this matter from
legal, state practice, or technicalperspectives.Any available information
should be sent electronically <a href="mailto:tofreedex@ohchr.org" target="_blank">tofreedex@ohchr.org</a> <<a href="mailto:freedex@ohchr.org" target="_blank">mailto:freedex@ohchr.org</a>>, *not later
than 10February 2015*.-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2
v2.0.22 (Darwin)Comment: GPGTools - <a href="https://gpgtools.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GAJy-----END" target="_blank">https://gpgtools.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GAJy-----END</a>
PGP
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