<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body ><div><div></div><div>I totally agree with Bertrand. At least something was started. Still in its infancy but with great prospects for growth. </div><div>Lorin</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:75%;color:#575757">Sent from Samsung Mobile</div></div></div><br><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Nnenna Nwakanma <nnenna75@gmail.com> <br>Date: 26/11/2014 18:52 (GMT+01:00) <br>To: Bertrand de La Chapelle <bdelachapelle@gmail.com> <br>Cc: governance@lists.igcaucus.org,"<,bestbits@lists.bestbits.net>," <bestbits@lists.bestbits.net> <br>Subject: Re: [bestbits] CSCG - participation in selection of civil society representatives for NMI Coordination Council <br> <br><br><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div>Very many thanks, Bertrand<br><br></div>What I was confused about is the idea that IGC and BB are now institutions that "want to join" NMI. I have been under the impression that these are Civil Society platforms for action.<br><br></div>My stand has been clear, if there are people who are willing to engage in a certain course (whatever their reasons are) then the platforms should facilitate that. One does not necessarily need to agree all the time with what others are doing.<br><br></div>People should be free to engage<br>People should be free to disengage<br></div>People should be free not to engage<br><br></div>I dont think that there will ever be a time when one person (or a group of persons for that matter) will be able to fully represent all the aspirations of the global civil society.<br><br></div>Nnenna<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 5:25 PM, Bertrand de La Chapelle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bdelachapelle@gmail.com" target="_blank">bdelachapelle@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Parminder,<div><br></div><div>I think Ian has managed to express in a very balanced and respectful manner the very diverse perspectives within civil society, including yours (and the JNC), by explicitly mentioning the reservations and the caution with which some people and CS groups accept to engage in the NMI exercise. I think he deserves more credit than what you express in response. </div><div><br></div><div>My understanding of democracy is neither the domination of the majority, nor the veto of a minority. We see too often what this produces at national levels. In the present case, some actors are willing to give it a try after having, I think, carefully pondered the opinions you expressed. It is your full right to disagree but not your right to prevent them from exercising their willing choice or demean them by claiming they have "betrayed the powerless". Only time will tell whether they were wrong or not. </div><div><br></div><div>As a general note, I still fail to see, after several years, whether you want to propose any other mechanism than traditional intergovernmental processes - limited to representatives from governments - as the proper architecture for the democratic Internet governance you desire. If you have other ideas, we are certainly all interested in innovative frameworks that would be different from what is attempted here with the NMI. If not, what place do you see in such purely governmental processes for civil society? None? Or just outside of the room? Tell me if I missed something here. </div><div><br></div><div>More generally, I wonder what makes you have faith in the capacity of purely intergovernmental fora to achieve progress in the absence of sufficient agreement among all governments? In the past ten years, such fora have hardly produced anything more than copy and paste of various paragraphs of the WSIS documents (I know from experience, having contributed to several of CSTD drafting exercises, for instance). </div><div><br></div><div>The most innovative efforts, albeit still imperfect, have been undertaken by non-UN organizations, such as the Council of Europe or OECD, but they do not have universal membership. </div><div><br></div><div>We need solutions for key issues and we currently do not have the proper structures and processes to address them. The NETmundial Initiative is certainly not perfect, but it is at least an effort to keep the momentum produced by he Sao Paulo event and it does not pretend to have a monopoly. Nobody prevents anyone from initiating competing efforts. But doing nothing does not seem a viable or valuable option. </div><div><br></div><div>Respectfully</div><div><br></div><div>Bertrand</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"></font></span><table style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:1em;color:rgb(38,38,38)" width="600" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3"><tbody><tr><td colspan="3" height="5"></td></tr><tr style="font-size:13px;color:rgb(176,173,176)"><td colspan="3">"<em>Le plus beau métier des hommes, c'est d'unir les hommes</em>", Antoine de Saint Exupéry<br>("<em>There is no greater mission for humans than uniting humans</em>")</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" height="10"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3"><span style="color:rgb(0,138,204);text-transform:uppercase">BERTRAND DE LA CHAPELLE</span></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">Internet & Jurisdiction Project | Director</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">email <a href="mailto:bdelachapelle@internetjurisdiction.net" alt="email Bertrand de la Chapelle" style="color:rgb(159,157,159);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">bdelachapelle@internetjurisdiction.net</a></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">email <a href="mailto:bdelachapelle@gmail.com" alt="email Bertrand de la Chapelle" style="color:rgb(159,157,159);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">bdelachapelle@gmail.com</a></td></tr><tr colspan="3"><td>twitter <a href="https://twitter.com/IJurisdiction" alt="Internet & Jurisdiction Twitter Accompt" style="color:rgb(159,157,159);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">@IJurisdiction</a> | <a href="https://twitter.com/bdelachapelle" alt="Paul Fehlinger Twitter" style="color:rgb(159,157,159);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">@bdelachapelle</a></td></tr><tr colspan="3"><td>mobile <span style="color:rgb(159,157,159)"><a href="tel:%2B33%20%280%296%2011%2088%2033%2032" value="+33611883332" target="_blank">+33 (0)6 11 88 33 32</a></span></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3"><a href="http://www.internetjurisdiction.net" alt="Internet & Jurisdiction Website" style="color:rgb(159,157,159);text-decoration:none" target="_blank">www.internetjurisdiction.net</a></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" height="5"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3"><img src="http://www.internetjurisdiction.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/InternetJurisdiction-Logo-w300px.png" alt="A GLOBAL MULTI-STAKEHOLDER DIALOGUE PROCESS" style="margin:0px;border:none" width="300"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" height="5"></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div><div><div class="h5">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 5:14 PM, parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
<font face="Verdana">It is a pity that major civil society groups
finally decided to go with the WEF's NMI, albeit repackaged to
look somewhat better that the WEF itself. This could be a</font><font face="Verdana"> paradigm shift </font><font face="Verdana">and a
</font><font face="Verdana">historic day</font><font face="Verdana">
for the global governance of the Internet, of course in a bad way.
<br>
<br>
The existing centres of Internet power, almost all US based ones,
have achieved a significant objective. Really a </font><font face="Verdana">champagne-uncorking </font><font face="Verdana">day
for them. They have managed to shift the </font><font face="Verdana">attention from the US centredness of the global
Internet, which was </font><font face="Verdana">increasingly </font><font face="Verdana">becoming </font><font face="Verdana"> too
uncomfortable and unsustainable, towards relatively greater
globality of the Internet's power establishment. (In the short
term, this will help them address WSIS plus 10 'problems', but can
have significant long terms gains as well.) Being able to win
global popular support was extremely unlikely with the kind of
stuff that these Internet powers do, which is increasingly common
knowledge. Such democratic seekings are passe, really
old-fashioned. And so they went for the easier catch - the global
elite. It is an elite which often already identifies with a
certain US centric global cosmopolitan-ism (grudging accepting the
the US centred-ness of this global cultural phenomenon and hoping
to cosmopolitan-ise it). To the extent even if some of them do not
so accept - like some kinds of political and economic elites
outside the US - it is ready to make power-for-power big deals and
adjustments. That is what the World Economic Forum is, and
everyone know this fact. But this is something to which a big part
of civil society involved in the IG space </font><font face="Verdana">today </font><font face="Verdana">professed a
complete blindness.<br>
<br>
In reaching the World Economic Forum, and somewhat centring itself
on it, the global IG establishment has provided clearer contours
to what in any case has been one of the most significant elements
of the global politics around the Internet. This is the uneasy
political relationship between the globally mobile (now even more
mobile, virtually) or at least aspirational upper classes and the
more locally rooted, and yes, well, rather constrained,
rest-of-the-world, even if often domiciled in the same territory
and polity. Much of global Internet politics, captured in the
phenomenon of multistakeholderism, represents a combination of
political, economic and social elites of the world, and across the
world (with its continuous demeaning of the nation state while
taking all the benefit of its institutions). This political
combination now has a clear home at the WEF, and in it, a clear
symbol as well. It is spine-chilling to think what kind of deals
and compromises will be worked out among the most powerful, now
with the more acceptable tag of a certain globalness attached to
them.<br>
<br>
This globalness achieved by bringing together the elite of the
world may be worse than the status quo, which fact worries me the
most. In the status quo there was at least the stark legitimacy
hole, and certain possibilities of joining of forces among those
outside the global Internet power configuration, the rich and the
poor alike, to put it somewhat simplistically. The WEF brings to
the global IG establishment not only a new legitimacy of a certain
globalness, but also divides those who would otherwise be together
in their opposition to the US hegemony. Now the top businesses of
developing countries can feel more equal with those from the US at
WEF panels and working groups, and the leaders of the more
powerful developing countries can be variously flattered and
offered selective sops. That celebrated meeting of fat cats in the
snow at Davos. A perfect photo op. Just the poor, the disposed and
the marginalised are missing. They are missing from the forums
which would now entrech, as well as develop new, means for ever
greater digital control over them. The structures of controls will
see minor shifts and adjustments on the top, with concessions
thrown around within the narrow elite circles, and those left out
will all be worse for these adjustment and changes. This is how
the new global paradigm is a great regression from even the status
quo.<br>
<br>
The first country to welcome the WEF's NMI was the US, and also
the first to offer itself for a seat in the NMI Council. The
second one seeking a seat is Russia. So, you get the picture!
(Lets not talk about the Brazilians. They really do not seem to
know what they are doing, God forgive them.) The powerful have
decided what they plan to do, or not do, about the global
governance of the Internet. Now the powerless and the exploited
need to figure what </font><font face="Verdana">they </font><font face="Verdana">should do; what is their response to this new
global Internet power configuration. But for that they first need
an organised civil society to direct and lead them, because most
of the existing one in the IG space has betrayed them. It is a
difficult situation. <br><span><font color="#888888">
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font><div><div>
<div>On Wednesday 26 November 2014 03:25 PM,
Ian Peter wrote:<br>
</div>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000">
<p style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt 36pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><span></span></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">Dear Civil Society members,</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">After a substantial consultation
with members across many different constituencies, the
Internet Governance Civil Society Coordination Group
(CSCG) has decided that, in accordance with its
procedures and with the conditions in the letter below,
it will engage in the process of selection of self
nominated civil society representatives for the Co
ordination Council of the Netmundial Initiative (NMI). </font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">In doing so, we acknowledge and
respect that Just Net Coalition has determined not to
engage in this process, and that there are many civil
society people in other coalitions who would also prefer
not to engage at this time.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">For those who choose to engage;
if you wish to be a candidate, you must complete the
form which can be found at </font></span><a><span><font face="Times New Roman" color="#0000ff">https://www.netmundial.org/coordination-council-nominations</font></span></a><span><font face="Times New Roman">, together with the associated
documentation, by December 6. Please note that CSCG will
not be endorsing nominations but playing a selection
role as outlined in the letter below.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">Thank you everyone who
participated in this consultation and freely expressed
their opinions. Below is a letter recently sent to the
organisers outlining CSCG’s position and involvement.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><span><span><span></span></span></span></font> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><font face="Times New Roman"><span><span><span> </span></span></span><span>LETTER TO NMI TRANSITIONAL COUNCIL</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">Dear Virgilio, Richard and Fadi,</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">As members of the Internet
Governance Civil Society Coordination Group (CSCG), we
write to express our appreciation for your openness in
working with us to negotiate the terms of civil
society’s participation in the NETmundial Initiative; in
particular, by accommodating our expectation, drawn from
the NETmundial Principles, that if we are to participate
on the Coordination Council, we should nominate our own
representatives.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">Since our initial agreement on
this principle, we have been consulting with our
constituents about whether civil society ought to avail
itself of this opportunity at all. We must say that
this has been a difficult question, at the end of which
there remain some very significant misgivings across a
broad segment of civil society about the merits of our
prospective involvement.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">Among the underlying concerns of
many are that the involvement of the World Economic
Forum in the initiative signals an attempt by economic
and political elites to secure a central role in
Internet governance; that the Initiative has been
organised in a top-down manner that privileges its three
promoters above other stakeholders; and that devoting
time and resources to the Initiative may detract from
other processes such as the Internet Governance Forum.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">On the other hand, others
recognise the opportunity that exists for civil society
to help shape the NETmundial Initiative into a mechanism
(but not the only mechanism) that can advance the
NETmundial roadmap. Despite significant shortcomings in
the NETmundial Multistakeholder Statement stemming from
influence exerted by powerful actors towards the end of
the process, much of the document, including the
roadmap, does enjoy broad civil society support.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">OUR INVOLVEMENT AND PROCESS</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">In the end we have decided to
facilitate the involvement of those from civil society
who do wish to apply for membership of the Coordination
Council, while acknowledging others have decided as a
matter of principle that they do not wish to be
involved—and indeed would rather that civil society did
not participate at all. We acknowledge and respect that
our colleagues from Just Net Coalition have taken that
position and will not be participating with us in this
exercise.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">The process we have agreed to
work with is</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">1. At the close of nominations
(December 6), CSCG Nomcom will review all nominations
for civil society participation and evaluate each
candidate’s suitability.<br>
<br>
2. CSCG Nomcom will recommend one candidate per
geographic region, and submits names to Transitional
Council with reasons.<br>
<br>
3. If necessary, NMI Transitional Council will convene a
(virtual) meeting with CSCG Nomcom to discuss any issues
arising, with a view to reaching a rough consensus
agreement if there are any issues with our nominations.
If there is a strong dissenting voice from another area
of civil society they may also be invited to participate
after discussion.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">CONDITIONS AND CONSIDERATIONS</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">Although we will work with the
NETmundial Initiative’s organising partners to select
willing civil society representatives from amongst those
who self-nominate through the Initiative’s nomination
process, we also outline five simple conditions that we
believe representatives are likely to affirm following
their appointment to the Coordination Council:</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">1. We would like the
Co-ordination Council to discuss whether CGI.br, WEF and
ICANN should have permanent membership of the
Coordination Council and what that implies. Whilst it is
acknowledged that the above organisations are jointly
funding the operational expenses of the Initiative for
its first year, this might not remain so. We are not
convinced that funding support is sufficient
justification for such a role, and we believe that the
full Coordination Council itself should approve any
permanent seats and what that implies.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">2. To the extent that a stated
objective of the Coordination Council is "promoting the
distributed Internet governance model,” we want to point
out that the status quo in Internet governance does not
represent the fulfilment of this model. The NETmundial
Initiative should not be used to legitimise existing
inequalities and deficiencies of the present system and
should not hold civil society back from advocating
necessary reforms.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">3. While we acknowledge the
progressive elements of the NETmundial Multistakeholder
Statement, it is not the final and definitive statement
of Internet governance principles; indeed the Statement
itself acknowledges that it is only a work in progress.
So we do not see the NETmundial roadmap as an immutable
document. We look forward to its refinement and/or
augmentation and hope that NMI ensures a bottom up
collaborative process to undertake this work.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">4. A key performance indicator
for the NETmundial Initiative must be the extent to
which its activities strengthen and support the Internet
Governance Forum, which remains the most significant
global hub for general multi-stakeholder Internet
governance policy discussions. If the IGF develops the
capacity to assume further activities that currently
might not fall within their capabilities, this should be
facilitated, not opposed.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">5. We will wish to evaluate from
time to time whether this engagement is providing
effective and worthwhile results for our constituencies.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm 0pt;LINE-HEIGHT:normal"><span><font face="Times New Roman">We trust that our participation
in this Initiative can be accepted with these
conditions, and we look forward to working with you to
select a balanced, inclusive and capable slate of civil
society nominees to join the Coordi</font></span></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body>