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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Often we seem to be saying that
      participation is sufficient end in itself<br>
      <br>
      for what purpose<br>
      for whose gain<br>
      who do we represent in our participation<br>
      who will lose by the participation<br>
      who holds the power in the participation forum/ makes the rules of
      the game<br>
      how much can we fool ourselves about the power we have in the
      forum <br>
      <br>
      These questions are extremely important to engage with.  <br>
      On the other hand, we can only wake up those who are sleeping (and
      hopefully there are many who may wake up at this point - of a
      neo-liberal attempt to capture of global governance), not those
      who pretend to be.... <br>
      <br>
      regards<br>
      Guru<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      On Wednesday 19 November 2014 02:50 AM, Grace Githaiga wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:DUB111-W9973827089711FED9B9258B4880@phx.gbl"
      type="cite">
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      <div dir="ltr">I would go for CS to participate if the request to
        conduct own nominations for representation is accepted. It is
        easier to shape/influence processes if we are part of them.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>Rgds</div>
        <div>Grace<br>
          <br>
          <div>
            <hr id="stopSpelling">From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ian.peter@ianpeter.com">ian.peter@ianpeter.com</a><br>
            To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org">jmalcolm@eff.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><br>
            Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:31:17 +1100<br>
            Subject: Re: [bestbits] Whether to participate in NETmundial
            Initiative - RFC<br>
            <br>
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div
                style="FONT-SIZE:12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';COLOR:#000000;">
                <div>At this point of time discussions are going on in a
                  number of forums as regards participation, not just
                  here; and it would be helpful if the debate was about
                  whether to participate or not, not about who said what
                  when. </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div>As an aid to this, and perhaps to focus discussion
                  a little, here is a brief summary of some of the
                  arguments for and against that I have seen advanced.
                  Not a complete list, but perhaps this might help some
                  people to understand that other people have
                  perspectives that differ from their own. i would urge
                  people to add their own perspectives to these so that
                  an informed decision is made.</div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> </div>
                <div> </div>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">FOR INVOLVEMENT</font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">With ITU a governments
                      only forum and no real will to change, and IGF as
                      a forum with no power to make recommendations or
                      take decisions and again no will to change, there
                      is no credible venue to initiate action on non
                      technical issues or issues not within the remit of
                      Istar organisations These would include
                      surveillance issues, human rights issues, net
                      neutrality issues, to name a few.</font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">The solid commitment to
                      NetMundial principles promised, if carried out in
                      practice, would create a credible and open
                      initiative </font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">There is a need for<span
                        style=""> a representative </span>forum capable
                      of moving us forward on a range of issues not
                      covered by existing institutions</font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">Participation is strongly
                      supported by some sections of civil society</font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"> </p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">AGAINST INVOLVEMENT</font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">The last thing we need is
                      a corporate takeover of internet governance and
                      this could become that</font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">ISOC has withdrawn </font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">Participation is strongly
                      opposed by some sections of civil society</font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"><font style="size:+0;"><font
                      style="FONT-SIZE:11pt;">This initiative has a
                      track record of poor communication</font></font></p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;"> </p>
                <p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="MARGIN:0cm 0cm
                  10pt;LINE-HEIGHT:13pt;">Ian Peter</p>
                <div
style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;">
                  <div style="FONT:10pt tahoma;">
                    <div> </div>
                    <div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5;">
                      <div style=""><b>From:</b> <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          title="jmalcolm@eff.org"
                          href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org">Jeremy Malcolm</a>
                      </div>
                      <div><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 18, 2014 2:53
                        PM</div>
                      <div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          title="bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
                          href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">Best
                          Bits</a> </div>
                      <div><b>Subject:</b> [bestbits] Whether to
                        participate in NETmundial Initiative - RFC</div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div> </div>
                </div>
                <div
style="FONT-SIZE:small;TEXT-DECORATION:none;FONT-FAMILY:"Calibri";FONT-WEIGHT:normal;COLOR:#000000;FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;">
                  <div>By now everyone will have read from previous
                    threads that ISOC and the Just Net Coalition (JNC)
                    have both decided not to participate in the
                    NETmundial Initiative, and you may have also have
                    read some false information that Best Bits and other
                    networks represented on the Civil Society
                    Coordination Group (CSCG) *have* decided to
                    participate.  As Ian Peter's clarifying message
                    setting out the truth of the matter should have made
                    clear, that is *not* the case.  All that has
                    happened is that the we have obtained as much
                    assurance as we can that *if* we decide to
                    participate, then the Secretariat (ICANN, WEF and <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://CGI.br"
                      target="_blank">CGI.br</a>) will accept our
                    self-nomination process rather than choosing civil
                    society representatives independently.</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>Now we turn to you, our communities, to provide
                    us with guidance about whether to proceed further or
                    not.  Some views have already been expressed pro and
                    con.  I have been (and remain) publicly critical
                    about the NETmundial Initiative, but on the other
                    hand the reasoning ISOC and JNC give for boycotting
                    it is rather specious, because they characterise the
                    initiative as being something that it doesn't
                    purport to be - ie. a single central policy-making
                    body for Internet governance. This is an alarmist
                    critique that turns the NETmundial Initiative into
                    an exaggerated ITU-style bogeyman.</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>So whilst there is certainly room for
                    disagreement about whether we should bestow the
                    benefit of our participation on the Initiative (I
                    remain deeply conflicted about this), let's decide
                    on the basis of factual pro and con arguments rather
                    than oversimplifications about the 1% taking over
                    the Internet.  Also note that a few civil society
                    representatives, including Human Rights Watch, have
                    endorsed it already and are featured on the carousel
                    message on the front page of <a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="http://netmundial.org" target="_blank">netmundial.org</a>.</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>So what do people think?  If you haven't already
                    shared your views, please do so on this thread,
                    within the next few days if possible.</div>
                  <div> </div>
                  <div>
                    <div
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                      <div
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                        <div>-- </div>
                        <div>Jeremy Malcolm</div>
                        <div>Senior Global Policy Analyst</div>
                        <div>Electronic Frontier Foundation</div>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://eff.org"
                          target="_blank">https://eff.org</a><br>
                        <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jmalcolm@eff.org">jmalcolm@eff.org</a>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>Tel: 415.436.9333 ext 161</div>
                        <div> </div>
                        <div>:: Defending Your Rights in the Digital
                          World ::</div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  <br>
                  <hr>
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    </blockquote>
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