<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br><div><div>On 29 Oct 2014, at 12:41 pm, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Verdana">For a long time I have believed, and in fact still do, that a transnational system of naming, numbering, and routing of Internet traffic, which does not fully map on to sovereign boundaries, is an excellent check on the national state's inherent tendency to use possible controls on a nation's informational space for illegitimate purposes.</font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Well, it is great when we can agree. </div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Verdana"> However, for this purpose, that particular transnational system has to be fair and just, and democratic. And since nothing is perfect, it should at least show marked tendencies in the direction of becoming fair, just and democratic. </font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Do you believe that allocation based on need for IPv4 was not fair and just?</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I'd add that I, personally, would have to add 'objective and rational' to the list of desirable characteristics, because India seems to be proposing something that seems on the face of it to approach what seems to satisfy some of its principles, yet is poorly though out and probably unimplementable... </div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Verdana">The problem however is that the current transnational system - managed by the ICANN family of institutions - and of course under significant US control - shows no such signs of becoming what it needs to become, ie fair, just and democratic.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Developing countries, including India, have for decades been crying hoarse, pleading, 'please, become more fair and democratic...'.</font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Well, crying some variant of 'please give more power to national governments', and claiming it's all about democracy while sitting next to China and Russia and the KSA etc... </div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Verdana"> Such appeals get the most humiliating responses - from a stony silence, to, well, 'we made the Internet, and so have some regard and patience'.</font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Or the observation that claiming it is all about democracy while enlisting the support of China and Russia against a system backed by a wide range of democratic nations looks a bit suspicious..... </div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Verdana"> India, and some others like Brazil, at least must be credited for being extremely patient and conciliatory. (I sometime marvel how<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font><font face="Verdana">they have been so<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font><font face="Verdana">patient .) But all this to no avail. The hegemony stays unshaken, just gets more and more strengthened by the day.... (Unfortunately, most of, what goes in the name of, civil society in the IG space has consistently supported this hegemony, *for all practical purposes* but let me not digress.)<br></font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Cries to become more democratic aside (I've already observed that JNC rhetoric about democracy seems to frequently end up calling for solutions that seem somewhat un-democratic to me, so we are unlikely to agree unless you are willing to break with the JNC general push towards the ITU), do you have an issue with the current process or result? </div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>So, do you have a problem with the actual allocation of IP#s followed by the RIRs? You would have proposed a different principle than allocation via need, so slowing internet deployment in early adopting areas?</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Verdana">In the circumstances, I think that any self respecting country has no other option but to say, ok, if you just refuse to budge on the international regime, let the sovereign countries do these things themselves - meaning, naming, numbering, and routing processes. </font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Verdana">The rule of democratic law must apply, and if it cannot apply through international regimes, then let it be through separate national ones. That is what the India proposal is about. </font></div></blockquote><div><br></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Ah, yes, the ever popular JNC line of 'in order to make it more democratic, it is important to empower state based governance even when its undemocratic'. I'm still not able to reconcile the rhetoric with the result. </div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Cheers</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>David</div><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><font face="Verdana">As I said, I still think that a positive tension between a (fair and democratic) transnational system and a more close-to-things and implementable national one is the best thing in this space, is best for the Internet, generally, speaking. But if those who squat in the positions of power and control over the current global regime (see Just Net Coalition's<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.itu.int/en/plenipotentiary/2014/Documents/ITU_PP_2014_Stmt2.pdf" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">latest statement</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>) simply refuse to hear, I think that it is absolutely fair for a country like India to bring such a resolution to any appropriate global governance forum, as it has to the ITU Plenipotentiary. In fact it wont be doing its duty if it were not to so such a thing.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I hope more countries back this resolution, and it serves to create positive tension vis a vis the current unacceptable global regime, out of which contestation something good, which is the best for the global public interest comes out..<br><br>parminder<br><br></font><div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Monday 27 October 2014 03:28 AM, michael gurstein wrote:<br></div><blockquote cite="mid:0b7c01cff167$f8195910$e84c0b30$@gmail.com" type="cite"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><i><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">[MG>] this one seems to be causing a fair amount of controversy with many of the Status Quo-ists going apoplectic…</span></i></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">instructs the Secretary General<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>1 to collaborate with all stakeholders including International and intergovernmental organizations, involved in IP addresses management to develop an IP address plan from which IP addresses of different countries are easily discernible and coordinate to ensure distribution of IP addresses accordingly;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>2 to collaborate with all the concerned stakeholders including International and intergovernmental organizations to develop policies for allocation, assignment and management of IP resources including naming, numbering and addressing which is systematic, equitable, fair, just, democratic and transparent and need to be adhered to by entities designated with the responsibilities of allocating or assigning resources and dealing with day-to-day technical and operational matters;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>3 to prepare reference plan for current and future telecom networks that addresses concerns of Member States including safety, robustness, resilience, routing in normal and exceptional cases and provide guidance on technical capabilities to developing countries;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>4 to develop and recommend public telecom network architecture which ensures effectively that address resolution for the traffic meant for the country, traffic originating and terminating in the country/region takes place within the country;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>5 to develop and recommend public telecom network architecture which ensures that effectively the traffic meant for the country, traffic originating and terminating in the country remains within the country;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>6 to develop and recommend a routing plan of traffic for optimizing the network resources that could effectively ensure the traceability of communication;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>7 to collaborate with all stakeholders involved in studying the weaknesses of present protocols used in telecom networks and develop and recommend secure, robust and tamper proof protocols to meet the requirements of future networks in view of the envisaged manifold increase in traffic and end devices in near future in the light of IoT and M2M needs;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>8 to submit an annual report on above to the ITU council.<o:p></o:p></p></div><br><fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset><br><pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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