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    <font face="Arial">Dear all<br>
      <br>
      I can confirm what Nick is saying  here based on our experience
      during the drafting. It was not business in general that insisted
      on strong IP text, it was very specifically Hollywood interests.<br>
      <br>
      Civil society actors tend to forget that there are strongly
      divergent intersts among business stakeholders in the IG
      community.  <br>
      <br>
      Anriette<br>
      <br>
      <br>
    </font>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29/04/2014 12:54, Nick Ashton-Hart
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:145ad1efb60.27c9.9387b8a9f30986f905fcc4cfa238b71f@consensus.pro"
      type="cite">
      <div style="font-family: sans-serif;">
        <p>For what it is worth, on the industry side that was a
          compromise. Many
          of us argued that IP didn't belong in the document at all, but
          as usual the
          Hollywood interests insisted. That phrase was a considerable
          reduction from
          what was originally proposed.</p>
        <div style="font-family: sans-serif;">
          <p style="margin: 10pt 0; color: black;">On 29 April 2014
            11:36:05 Anriette
            Esterhuysen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org"><anriette@apc.org></a> wrote:</p>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0
            0 0.75ex; border-left: 1px solid #808080; padding-left:
            0.75ex;"> <font face="Arial">Dear Achal<br>
              <br>
              I was not involved in preparing the civil society inputs.<br>
              <br>
              I was co-chair of the drafting group for the 'principles'
              section of the document, and I actually with great
              frustration tried to find the text you had proposed during
              our pre-meeting. It was not on the Best Bits pad.<br>
              <br>
              When the 'Article 27' text was proposed during the
              drafting I did vigorously oppose it. I did not actually
              realise it was proposed by civil society as on the second
              day of the drafting my laptop had died, and I had no
              access to the online document.<br>
              <br>
              My personal concerns with the text in Article 27 was
              shared by some of the CS people who were observing.
              Business was strongly in favour of us inserting that text
              and we almost had deadlock on it. It is always easy to use
              existing language, and in most of the other rights, we did
              resort to UDHR language.  On that one I held out.<br>
              <br>
              The deadlock was broken by us using text that was
              suggested, or proposed by Jeremy Malcolm on the second
              day. I can't remember exactly what Jeremy had said, but is
              input implied that some protection for authors would be
              acceptable.<br>
              <br>
              Therefore "</font><font face="Arial">consistent with the
              rights of authors and creators" was added to the original
              text (which was actually proposed by civil society very
              early on: "</font><br>
            <font face="Arial">Everyone should have the right to access,
              share, create and distribute information on the
              Internet".  The final phrase </font>"<font face="Arial">as
              established in law" was demanded by business, if I
              remember correctly.<br>
              <br>
              So, in the end, this text was not too bad. And we managed
              to keep 'permissionless innovation' in another part of the
              document.  The BAD news is that the text on internet
              intermediary liability which was only finalised after the
              high level committee meeting is the same OECD text which
              civil society opposed in 2011. France and the US were
              insisted it be included. It is text that links
              intermediary liability to economic growth and that opens
              the doors to intermediaries being made responsible for
              enforcing copyright.  For me that was a huge, huge blow.<br>
              <br>
              I am not in a position to respond to your other questions
              as I was not involved in finalising the civil society
              inputs. <br>
              <br>
              My personal view however is that disproportionate
              enforcement of intellectual property rights is one of the
              greatest threats to 'internet freedom' we are facing, if
              not the greatest.  Unlike limitations on free expression
              which is broadly considered to be inappropriate, there is
              widespread support by powerful governments and by a large
              part of internet industry (not all)  for stronger
              enforcement of these rights, and for making intermediaries
              responsible doing so.<br>
              <br>
              Anriette<br>
              <br>
              <br>
            </font>
            <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 29/04/2014 07:41, Achal
              Prabhala wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote
cite="mid:CA+9gj3J3vOKZbpoLLd25d4hf7uPCNFY8cOusZ5dichEWY_GQzQ@mail.gmail.com"
              type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div><br>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <div>
                                  <div>I have been trying to understand
                                    what civil society's position on
                                    copyright in Internet governance is,
                                    esp. in the aftermath of NETmundial.<br>
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                  On April 22, I took part in a civil
                                  society meeting along with many of
                                  you, when the following language was
                                  suggested to be included in civil
                                  society feedback to the draft outcome
                                  document: "resisting the expansion of
                                  a sovereign application of copyright
                                  on to the global online landscape." <br>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                                The language came from the recent, vivid
                                and very real threats posed by the
                                almost-legislated SOPA/PIPA in the US.<br>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                              Then it seems civil society changed it's
                              mind: this is the language used in the
                              final feedback document: (<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://bestbits.net/netmundial-proposals/">http://bestbits.net/netmundial-proposals/</a>)<br>
                              <br>
                              "Right to participate in cultural life:
                              everyone has the right freely to
                              participate in the cultural life of the
                              community, to enjoy the arts and to share
                              in scientific advancement and its
                              benefits, and this right extends to the
                              Internet. Everyone has the right to the
                              protection of the moral and material
                              interests resulting from any scientific,
                              literary or artistic production of which
                              he is the author. This protection must be
                              balanced with the larger public interest
                              and human rights, including the rights to
                              education, freedom of expression and
                              information and the right to privacy."<br>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                            This is the language from the final
                            NETmundial outcome document: (<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://netmundial.br/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/NETmundial-Multistakeholder-Document.pdf">http://netmundial.br/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/NETmundial-Multistakeholder-Document.pdf</a>)<br>
                            <br>
                            <div dir="ltr"
                              style="font-size:18.4px;font-family:sans-serif">"Everyone

                              should havethe right to access, share,
                              create and distribute information on the
                              Internet, consistent with the rights of
                              authors and creators as established in
                              law."</div>
                            <br>
                          </div>
                          Inexplicably, the language on "protection" of
                          intellectual property is stronger in the civil
                          society statement than in the NETmundial
                          document.<br>
                          <br>
                          Following from this, naturally, weak or
                          nonexistent language *against* a restrictive,
                          censorious and unilaterally decided global
                          intellectual property regime did not figure
                          anywhere in the list of official civil society
                          complaints against the final NETmundial
                          outcome document. (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="http://bestbits.net/netmundial-response/">http://bestbits.net/netmundial-response/</a>)<br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                        I'd like to understand from someone who led this
                        civil society document as to:<br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      a) Whether you considered the copyright threat
                      sufficiently addresses in the language around
                      freedom of expression and access to information,
                      as well as ISP liability (even though the legal
                      scope in these three ideas, as expressed in the
                      statement from you, is fuzzy and does not use the
                      word 'copyright') and therefore chose to
                      explicitly leave it out of consideration?<br>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                    b) Or whether you deem the unjustified unilateral
                    enforcement of copyright protection an insufficient
                    threat to global online freedom and access to
                    knowledge, despite the almost-legislated SOPA/PIPA
                    from not that long ago.<br>
                    <br>
                  </div>
                  <div>c) And lastly, whether (and how), despite the
                    copyright issue having been raised - and seemingly
                    accepted - in the meetings running up to the
                    document, "civil society" believed there was
                    "consensus" around leaving the copyright issue out
                    of its demands.<br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  Thank you,<br>
                </div>
                Achal<br>
                <div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div><br>
                          <br>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
            <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
------------------------------------------------------
anriette esterhuysen <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a>
executive director, association for progressive communications
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.apc.org">www.apc.org</a>
po box 29755, melville 2109
south africa
tel/fax +27 11 726 1692</pre>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
------------------------------------------------------
anriette esterhuysen <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org">anriette@apc.org</a>
executive director, association for progressive communications
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.apc.org">www.apc.org</a>
po box 29755, melville 2109
south africa
tel/fax +27 11 726 1692</pre>
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