<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Optima; font-size: medium; border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; ">Where the hell have you got that idea that Democracy was geographically rooted to land and borders. It reminds me an argument by Avri saying that outside of its territory a country was losing its sovereignty, and therefore no Democracy could have a say outside of its territory... Many people on that list are just wondering what are these arguments all about.<br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><br></span>
</span></span></span></span></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Democracy is primarily a concept of governance, and has no geographical limitation at its philosophical inception. Anyone is free to think Democracy, its values, its principal out of any territory. You forget the original meaning: Democracy is firstly about DEMOS (People!). Then you look at where all of them 'belong' and established appropriate mechanisms in order to exercise Democratic principles, accepted by these people.</div><div><br></div><div>Democracy does not equate sovereignty. Any middle age kingdom had its sovereignty. But, sorry again to denounce the fancy arguments made by Avri et al, international law has often been brought to many countries, by Democracies. International law is therefore very often the fruit of Democratic values and initiative long supported by Democracies. They do have to fight the non Democracies to make them understand why this or that treaty would be good for them, or face the consequences. We know that. So Democratic values and principles are much more universal than your national argument suggest. No Democratic thinking outside the boundary of each sovereignty? The answer is crystal clear.</div><div><br></div><div>Now, an even more serious concern raises out of your "Enhanced Democracy" <i>bizarrerie</i>. I know that we disagree over critical points about the future of Internet governance, and I cannot doubt your sincerity to consider yourself as a true Democrat (hopefully) but the walk you want us to walk reminds me many wrongs turns in History. When the fascists, nazis or totalitarians wanted to reject Democracy, they would either denounce it as a "non-working", "non-efficient" system, or they would sell an idea that their "model" would be the next best stage of Democracy. With representatives or spoke-persons so dedicated to the common good, that they could not failed the people. Fascism was first a progressive concept at the very beginning before turning to radicalism and intolerance. We know where this "I know what is good for you - it is too complex anyway for you to understand - has lead us from over times.</div><div><br></div><div>So speaking of enhanced Democratic values or principles is always making a lot of people nervous. And I do understand that. Like them, I reject ideas of "enhanced Democracy". It is the apprenti-sorcier at his best. No, thanks for me. True Democracy is just fine. And it can perfectly be thought at whatever size and scale of people (Demos) you want to think.</div><div><br></div>
<br><div><div>Le 6 mars 2014 à 18:01, Jeanette Hofmann a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>How about democracy is supposed to be a national concept while we are dealing with transnational issues that involve public but also lots of private resources? Thus, this is not about replacing democracy but enhancing some of its principles to the transnational sphere. Actually an old idea that now has found another concrete case of application. <br>Jeanette <br><br>On 6 March 2014 17:47:04 CET, michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote type="cite">I’m still waiting for a rationale for replacing an admittedly flawed<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">system<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(democracy) but one where there is at least a track record, very<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">considerable theoretical development, an enormous ecology concerning<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Transparency and Accountability with a pig in a poke<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(multistakeholderism)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">which has no (applicable) track record, absolutely no theoretical<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">development or underpinnings, and whose only ecology is highly<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">questionable<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">since it suffers from, shall we say, significant transparency and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">accountability “deficits”. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The only justification that seems to be presented is impatience with<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">existing processes by various highly questionable actors—tax dodging<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">private<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">sector giants, an (as yet we are not sure how deeply subverted) tech<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">community and a bunch of corporate sponsored CS organizations. Not only<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">this<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">but the proposed system is such as to give an explicit veto over<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(“consensus<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">based”) public policy outputs to those self-same private sector giants<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">etc.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">etc. <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">If folks are serious about finding useful ways forward then spending<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">time<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">thinking about how to achieve useful reforms of existing democratic<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">processes/developing MS processes that enhance and deepen democratic<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">participation in the very complex and rapidly changing tech environment<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">would seem to me to be the way to go, unless of course there are other<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">reasons for discarding democracy which we aren’t being made aware of.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(That<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the US presentation re: Internet Governance to NetMundial evokes MSism<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">12<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">times and fails to mention democracy even once should give various of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">those<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">party to this discussion some cause for reflection.)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">M<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">[mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net] On Behalf Of Gene<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Kimmelman<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 6:16 AM<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: Jeanette Hofmann<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Cc: bestbits@lists.bestbits.net> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [bestbits] Re: [governance] Alternatives?<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">+1<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">This back and forth has identified something very important for us to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">articulate clearly among ourselves: Even where we share the same<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">goals,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">there will often be different approaches and strategies for achieving<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">those<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">goals. And in some instances we may have to part ways both<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">philosophically<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">and tactically. I believe Andrew and Wolfgang have described<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">compelling<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pragmatic reasons to seek incremental improvements in a very flawed<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">system.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I am comfortable (despite whatever legitimate arguments have been made<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">about<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the weaknesses in MSism) seeking to refine existing processes and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">creating<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">new processes if necessary that BOTH expand the opportunities for civil<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">society engagement with policymakers and the extremely strong corporate<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">sector, AND facilitate civil society's opportunity to press for global<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">action on the most important substantive policy issues we believe<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">require<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">policy intervention. That is why I am comfortable signing the Internet<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">governance principles and Roadmap documents. To me, this is about<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">pressing<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">our case in the most effective manner available to us at this point in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">time.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Like many others, I hope for a day in which we have more direct (and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">democratic) paths to promote our cause, but in the meantime I view the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">incremental opportunities as worthy of engagement, and certainly NOT<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">detrimental to our long-term objectives.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 8:52 AM, Jeanette Hofmann <<a href="mailto:jeanette@wzb.eu">jeanette@wzb.eu</a>><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">+ 1 to Stephanie and Wolfgang,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">jeanette<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Am 06.03.14 13:35, schrieb Stephanie Perrin:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I strongly support this statement. As someone who worked in government<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">30 years in this field, I must say that it is a rare government<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">delegation<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">that volunteers to engage with civil society. I cannot imagine why<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">civil<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">society wants to abdicate the little power they have at this point,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">they are<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">needed at this inflection point in Internet history to stand resolute<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">protecting human rights, privacy, and development.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Stephanie Perrin<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">On 2014-03-06, at 6:31 AM, Kleinwächter, Wolfgang wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Andrew:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Where I think we disagree is that I think you believe governments<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">should in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the end, make the final decisions about the internet as they are the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">sole<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">source of legitimacy (please correct me if I misunderstand you).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Parminder<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You do understand correctly. I believe that for global public policies<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">final public policy decision has to be taken by governments. This is so<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">policies in all area, whether climate change, health, trade, IP, or any<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">other. That is an imperfect system, but that is the best we got... We<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">should<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">continually improve it, as various submissions from my organisation has<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">sought, and well, IGF is a great reform measure, to help, but not do,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">policy<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">making.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Wolfgang:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The reality is - and will remain for a long future - that the 190+<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">governments of the UN member states will be unable to agree and to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">reach<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">consensus. WCIT was in so far a watershed because it demonstrated that<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">there<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">is no political will to agree on an the continuation of an already<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">existing<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(more technical) treaty with some amendements. The only thing you will<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">get<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">out - if you follow Parminders advice - is "an agreement to disagree"<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(as<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">enhanced cooperation).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">With other words: If you continue with this established hierarchcial<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">system<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with intergovernmental treaties at the top, you will get nothing. You<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">will<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">end up in endless political and ideological battles The most<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">restrictive<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">government will determine where the "red line is". This will be a<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">blockade<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">for the next 20 years of Internet development with no new technical and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">economic innovations, growing restrictions for individual rights and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">freedoms, slowing down social and economic development - in particular<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">in<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">developing countries - reducing job opportunies and something more.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The only way to bypass this is - as it has proved the last 20 years -<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">innovative bottom, transparent, accountable, open multistakeholder<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">policy<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">development process where governments are just one (vey important)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">stakeholder, but do not have a veto right and have to communicate,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">coordinate and collaborate on an equal footing among themsleves and<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">other stakeholders (which have to demonstrate their legitimacy) on an<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">issue<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">by issue basis towards rough consensus. And you need more<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">non-governmental<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">stakeholders from underprivilegd regions - in particular developing<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">countries - to balance (governmental and non-governmental) monopolies,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">domination and capture.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Study the IETF what rough consensus means. As long as the rough<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">consensus is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">based on an open standard, it can be always enhanced and amended if new<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">developments, (politcal) constellations and (social and economic)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">oppotunties arrive. So it is never the last word. But it helps to move<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(or<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">stumble) forward to the benefit of the vast majority which is<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">represented by<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the (multistakeholder) rough consensus.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">The big chance of NetMundial is that there could be a multistakeholder<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">rough<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">consensus around very high level, legally non binding general<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">principles<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">(which would allow also some governments to make reservations in line<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the mechanisms which has been build into the Human Rights Declarations<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">regad to Article 19 and Article 29) and to agree on a multistakeholder<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">road<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">map which singles out issues of concern and gives a direction how to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">approach them (this could include also timelines and the launch of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">multistakeholder mechanisms like clearing houses, taks forces,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">observatories<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">etc.).<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">But the very concrete public policy arrangements - from Privacy to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Security<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">to Intellectual Property - will be made probably via bi-lateral or<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">regional<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">arrangements negotiated in a multistakeholder environment. And the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">outcome<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">of this "Internet Governance Bilateralism" or "Internet Governance<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Regionalism" will produce another set of conflicts because a bilateral<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Chinese - Russian agreement on Internet Privacy would probably look<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">rather<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">different from the EU Directive (with 28 member states) and the EU<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Directive<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">is also rather differerent from the US privacy approach. And also<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Brazil,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">South Africa, India, Iran, Saudi Arabia (in particular the governments)<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">will<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">keep their own positions.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">However, as long as you put this (very often historical and cultural<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">determined) conflicts into a broader set of principles you avoid an<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">escalation among the conflicting positions because at the end of the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">day all<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the different groups feel polically (and morally) bound by those set of<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">principles, which will have the support not only by governments of the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">UN<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">member states but also by all the other non-governmental stakeholders.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">This<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">is a unique chance. It will not settle all problems and will not save<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">world. But it is a step forward at the right moment and in the right<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">direction. The adoption of the Human Rights Declaration did not stop<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">violations of human rights. But it offered a reference point which<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">helped to<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">reduce such violations.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">If we neglect or ignore this, the alternative will be that we are<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">moving<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">backwards into the 19th Century or even worse, into the Middle Ages.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">____________________________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To be removed from the list, visit:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">For all other list information and functions, see:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://www.igcaucus.org/">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Translate this email: <a href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">____________________________________________________________<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"> <a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><br>-- <br>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.<br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br>To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br> <a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>