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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div>Michael</div><div><br></div><div>Those of us less clever than you are trying to figure out how to make governance of a global system more equitable and transparent and accountable. Clearly we failed.</div><div><br></div><div>Can you explain to me how an international inter state process is democratic, assuming that is what you believe (and if not what is your democratic alternative to the submissions on BB?). How are my interests represented by inter state discussions, or those of Chinese or Russian citizens, or women in Saudi Arabia or Canadian academics? </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div> </div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span> michael gurstein <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Wednesday, 5 March 2014 23:57<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> "<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>>, Jeremy Malcolm <<a href="mailto:Jeremy@Malcolm.id.au">Jeremy@Malcolm.id.au</a>>, "<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "<bestbits@lists. net>" <<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> RE: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Three NETmundial submissions launched for endorsement at bestbits.net<br></div><div><br></div><div xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 14 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I see, so in your world democracy (however flawed), is to be replaced by Multistakeholderism where there is no (evident) transparency (T) or accountability
(A) for the inputs into the stakeholder processes, no (evident) T or A for the outputs of the stakeholder processes and the stakeholders themselves are subject to no effective T or A since they are some sort of (interglalactic?) shapeshifters errr… those
with “role flexibilities”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Have I missed something here?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">This may work for a Wizard of Oz space like 1Net where even as the curtain gets repeatedly bunched up revealing the (“non-existent”—we have it on the highest
possible authority—trust us) wizard pulling the strings and T & A appears to consist of repeated choruses of “trust them it will get better” by a fawning self-selected “Steering Committee”, but surely in our world we might expect something with a slightly
higher reality component.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">M<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"> <a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a> [<a href="mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org">mailto:governance-request@lists.igcaucus.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeremy Malcolm<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 05, 2014 4:21 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>; parminder<br><b>Cc:</b> <,<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net>">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net></a>,<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] Re: [bestbits] Three NETmundial submissions launched for endorsement at bestbits.net<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">On 5 Mar 2014, at 7:49 pm, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">So, request a clear response - do you mean <b><i>parity</i></b> in
<b><i>decision making</i></b> about <b><i>public policies </i></b>between gov and non gov actors.... And this is not a petty point... Half of the time of the WGEC got taken on this kind of discussion. This is the single most important point today, if we can
clarify nd possibly agree on this point - rest is not too difficult... Lets accept what is the key point, and not skirt it...<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Different people who contributed to the submission, even if they all endorse the final result, will probably give you different answers to that question. I'm not sure that anyone is interested in what my personal answer is because I'm
just an individual, but I would say no I do not accept as a general proposition that parity in decision making is appropriate, which is why I personally objected to that language being used.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">For some issues, it will be appropriate that the stakeholders act as equals in the decision making process (to the extent that there is a "decision" at all). In other areas, it won't be appropriate and may be more appropriate that although
all stakeholders are involved, one of them will legitimately take a bigger role than the others. For example governments may take a leading role in transnational human rights disputes, the technical community may do so in developing spam filtering standards,
civil society may do so in developing human rights based principles for judging government surveillance practices, and even the private sector may do so, say in setting prices for the trading of IPv4 addresses.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">This also implies that the appropriate mechanism of governance may differ in each case, eg. laws, standards, markets. The above all follows naturally if you accept that there are no fixed stakeholder roles, because the appropriate roles
will differ depending on the circumstances.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">BTW, the German government has the following to say in its submission to NetMundial<br><br>
...<br><br>
Do you for instance agree to the above formulation, or NOT...<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Nope, don't agree with the German government's formulation because it maintains the fallacy of fixed stakeholder roles.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black;">--<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black;">Jeremy Malcolm PhD LLB (Hons) B Com<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black;">Internet lawyer, ICT policy advocate, geek<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black;">host -t NAPTR 5.9.8.5.2.8.2.2.1.0.6.<a href="http://e164.org">e164.org</a>|awk -F! '{print $3}'<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black;">WARNING: This email has not been encrypted. You are strongly recommended to enable encryption at your end. For instructions, see
<a href="http://jere.my/l/pgp">http://jere.my/l/pgp</a>.</span></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black;"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></span></body></html>