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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 05 March 2014 05:51 PM,
Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<br>
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On 5 Mar 2014, at 7:49 pm, parminder <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">So, request a clear response -
do you mean <i><b>parity</b></i> in <i><b>decision
making</b></i> about <i><b>public policies </b></i>between
gov and non gov actors.... And this is not a petty
point... Half of the time of the WGEC got taken on this
kind of discussion. This is the single most important
point today, if we can clarify nd possibly agree on this
point - rest is not too difficult... Lets accept what is
the key point, and not skirt it...</div>
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<div>Different people who contributed to the submission, even if
they all endorse the final result, will probably give you
different answers to that question. I'm not sure that anyone
is interested in what my personal answer is because I'm just
an individual, but I would say no I do not accept as a general
proposition that parity in decision making is appropriate,
which is why I personally objected to that language being
used.</div>
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<div>For some issues, it will be appropriate that the
stakeholders act as equals in the decision making process (to
the extent that there is a "decision" at all). In other
areas, it won't be appropriate and may be more appropriate
that although all stakeholders are involved, one of them will
legitimately take a bigger role than the others. For example
governments may take a leading role in transnational human
rights disputes, the technical community may do so in
developing spam filtering standards, civil society may do so
in developing human rights based principles for judging
government surveillance practices, and even the private sector
may do so, say in setting prices for the trading of IPv4
addresses.</div>
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I am ready to sign off on this language, by adding some things like,
social justice claims also in govs basket (very often, and easily,
forgotten). Can I propose it for adoption by BB and IGC..... Now, if
there are others who dont agree to the above - and of course there
are such people whereby Jeremy had to defer - would they please
explain their position. For the sake of transparency and
accountability, and of course, if democracy means anything, for
promoting deliberative democracy. <br>
<br>
And again, I never spoke of the whole range of issues and elements
that governance consists of, and your response is therefore a bit
off track..<br>
<br>
I asked my question specifically in terms of - <i><b>taking
decisions in terms of public policies</b></i>... Please answer
that part specifically. Now lets not begin on, one does not
understand what is meant by 'public policies'... The whole
discipline of political science is based on it, all constitutions of
the world are relatively clear about this term. <br>
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<div>This also implies that the appropriate mechanism of
governance may differ in each case, eg. laws, standards,
markets. The above all follows naturally if you accept that
there are no fixed stakeholder roles, because the appropriate
roles will differ depending on the circumstances.</div>
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All the examples you mention can be captured in some concepts and
theory for appropriate democratic governance... Non-fixity is the
post modern contraption that the powerful have used very well in the
global IG space.... We can claim non fixity for anything and then
not allow any norms to be built... Is transparency, to take just one
example, a fixed norm - I can show you a thousand counter-instances
where it cannot be made to apply... That way nothing is fixed....
So, then why write any principle at all. Making principles is about
fixing things somewhat, as higher norms which practice uses as
guidelines... Tell me one principle which has fixed meaning and
application... Is equality among all people a fixed thing, is
'liberty' ......... <br>
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parminder <br>
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> BTW, the German
government has the following to say in its submission to
NetMundial<br>
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...<br>
<br>
Do you for instance agree to the above formulation, or
NOT...<br>
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<div>Nope, don't agree with the German government's formulation
because it maintains the fallacy of fixed stakeholder roles.</div>
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<div>--</div>
<div>Jeremy Malcolm PhD LLB (Hons) B Com</div>
<div>Internet lawyer, ICT policy advocate,
geek</div>
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