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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I must admit that I find the criteria being bandied about here re: selection for CS representation to be quite bizarre… (sorry I’m not exactly sure where this particular list came from but it has been bandied about by the various CS honchos in one form or another over the last few days…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:62.25pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-26.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Able to represent civil society as a whole, not just your individual civil society organisation(s)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hmmm… as I read this what it means is that whoever represents CS doesn’t (can’t) have an opinion… what sort of an opinion would/could represent “Civil Society as a whole”.. So the process of selection is done to ensure the least common denominator/effective representative of any CS values or interests… I wonder whether the 5 representatives of the corporate sector are going to follow this form of self-regulation so as to ensure that they don’t represent any corporate interests.. beyond the lowest common denominator of supporting the market economy… I think not… <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:62.25pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-26.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Able to work collegiately with other stakeholder groups in a multistakeholder setting<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Ah, yes the “play nice”/kindergarten criteria, qv. my response to Avri<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:62.25pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-26.25pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Able to consult widely with civil society groups and to report back as the process progresses<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:62.25pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Okay, but we’ve already eliminated most anyone with any serious involvements with active CS groups so the process of consulting and reporting back seems a wee bit,vacuous dare I say… we are expecting them to consult and report back but on…. what exactly <o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Since we are tossing around criteria how about a few more that might actually have a substantive impact on the effectiveness of CS in representing CS interests…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.75in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>No participation in CS representation by individuals who have been part of government delegations for the last five years<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.75in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>No participation in CS except by those who actually have some experience in the areas in which they are pontificating/err pronouncing.. I.e. if they are talking about “development” we should expect that “our” representatives have actually gotten their boots dirty in actual development and not just high level maundering around the issues…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.75in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><![if !supportLists]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>No participation from those who only represent themselves (NGO’s or whatever of 1) and have no evident links to larger CS (or other) networks beyond the immediate cadre of their IG CS friends and allies. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The criteria that you folks have been prattling on about, point to the fundamental flaw in IG CS which is that the way you are approaching it, the only thing apart from lunch which can be agreed upon and thus meet your criteria are process issues. No substance, no content, no real policy… just process… <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>So CS becomes completely pre-occupied with discussing (its own) positioning and processes in the larger IG area. The real issues of policy/governance are never addressed because they don’t (can’t possibly) “represent civil society as a whole”. Rather real policy/governance issues have owners and interests and represent the potential (and in many cases the reality) of real conflict—that’s what “interests” are about… Policy is about specific groups within (civil) society with specific interests, needs and concerns and articulating and representing these in the context of our engagement—just like the corporate folks of course, who also have specific interest, needs and concerns and are, dare I say, rather less bashful about promoting them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>FWIW, the <a href="http://cirn.wikispaces.com/An+Internet+for+the+Common+Good+-+Engagement%2C+Empowerment%2C+and+Justice+for+All">Community Informatics Declaration</a> was circulated to an e-list of top (US) telecom and ICT policy wonks (not by me) and in three days it has generated 50+ substantive contributions responding in one way or another to the CI text. Many critical, many supportive but all substantive and very high level and as a whole making a (potentially) very serious contribution to Internet Governance/Policy and justifying if anything could, the true value and significance (and ultimately contribution) that CS can make to these discussions. The discussion here, among our “CS” colleagues on this document… zip…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>M <o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net [mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mawaki Chango<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 24, 2013 8:21 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bits bestbits@lists.bestbits.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits] Call to Best Bits participants for nominations to Brazil meeting committees<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br>On 24-Dec-13 03:18, Mawaki Chango wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>"Don't worry getting yourself out of poverty by trying to speak for<br>yourself (for instance, by trying to expose the structural imbalances<br>that maintain the conditions causing poverty,) just be content with us<br>taking care of your needs as we understand them (by maintaining and<br>feeding in the public aid apparatus so that you can get something to eat<br>everyday while we enjoy self-gratification for doing good)."<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>Well I suppose you can read anything, any way you wish, I contend that your reading is a prejudicial and specious misconstruction.<br><br>I said nothing about people not arguing their case as vociferously as they might wish. And I said nothing about not applying for a representative role.<br><br>What I said is that when one accepts a representative role, they go on to represent the whole group and not just the one particular set of beliefs and agendas they come in with.<br><br>And what I think is wrong is getting a position as a CS representative and then doing everything you can to put forward your personal agenda at the cost of the rest of civil society's positions. Sure make sure your position gets heard and understood as well as is possible, just don't do it by by tearing down the work everyone else is trying to do as well. This means that you have to pick people who despite having a minority view can work with the majority as well.<br><br>So sure put in the criterion of including minority viewpoints, but also put in the criterion of "plays well with others."<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Well, that was my point, and I believe your latter criterion/qualification is taken care in one way or the other by the first 3 out of 6 criteria already applicable.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>1. Able to represent civil society as a whole, not just your individual civil society organisation(s)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>2. Able to work collegiately with other stakeholder groups in a multistakeholder setting<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>3. Able to consult widely with civil society groups and to report back as the process progresses<o:p></o:p></span></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> And your earlier opposition to the newly proposed criterion did not make your more balanced position stated above any clearer than my reading of your arguments was "prejudicial and specious."<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>mawaki<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#888888'><br><br>avri<br></span><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br>To unsubscribe or change your settings, visit:<br> <a href="http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits" target="_blank">http://lists.bestbits.net/wws/info/bestbits</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>