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Just to add a small comment to this, and without detracting at all from the great Washington Post story today about the use of Google cookies, I think the Ryan Lizza piece in the New Yorker goes into great detail about the culture of surveillance in the intelligence agencies and where it comes from. It's not built on commercial data-mining, although it is happy to capture commercial data-mining opportunistically. As Kevin pointed out earlier in the thread, when we first learned about NSA's bulk data collection, we learned how they were using the phone companies (willing participants) as distinct from the tech companies (who, from everything we've elicited so far, have not been willing collaborators). We could eliminate Google cookies tomorrow, and the whole bulk-collection culture and apparatus would remain in place.<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>--Mike</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br>Sent from my iPad using <a href="http://taps.io/mailplus" target="_BLANK">Mail+ for Outlook</a>
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<br><br><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> Mike Godwin (mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG)<br><b>Sent:</b> 12/11/13, 7:23<br><b>To:</b> Kevin Bankston, James S. Tyre<br><b>Cc:</b> Gene Kimmelman, michael gurstein, Mishi Choudhary, bestbits<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits] Reform surveillance<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div>
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<div>By comparison, see Ryan Lizza’s long article in this week’s New Yorker:</div>
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<div><span style="color: rgb(55, 64, 78); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">'In recent years, Americans have become accustomed to the idea of advertisers
gathering wide swaths of information about their private transactions. The N.S.A.’s collecting of data looks a lot like what Facebook does, but it is fundamentall</span><span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline; color: rgb(55, 64, 78); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">y
different. It inverts the crucial legal principle of probable cause: the government may not seize or inspect private property or information without evidence of a crime. The N.S.A. contends that it needs haystacks in order to find the terrorist needle. Its
definition of a haystack is expanding; there are indications that, under the auspices of the “business records” provision of the Patriot Act, the intelligence community is now trying to assemble databases of financial transactions and cell-phone location information.’</span></div>
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<div><span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline; color: rgb(55, 64, 78); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Ryan Lizza: Why Won’t Obama Rein
in the N.S.A.? </span></div>
<div><span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline; color: rgb(55, 64, 78); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a href="http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/12/16/131216fa_fact_lizza?mbid=social_retweet">http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/12/16/131216fa_fact_lizza?mbid=social_retweet</a></span></div>
<div><span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline; color: rgb(55, 64, 78); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> via @NewYorker</span></div>
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<div><span class="text_exposed_show" style="display: inline; color: rgb(55, 64, 78); font-family: 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(255, 254, 254);">(Note: I want to emphasize again
that I think what commercial internet companies do is absolutely worth scrutinizing, but agencies’ capture of commercial data-mining is a symptom of surveillance culture, not its cause.)</span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 32, 96);">Mike Godwin</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> | Senior Legal Advisor, Global Internet Policy Project</span><span style="font-size: 16.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; ">415-793-4446<span style="font-size: 16.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Skype</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> mnemonic1026</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Address</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> 1601 R Street NW, 2nd Floor Washington, DC 20009 USA</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Kevin Bankston <<a href="mailto:bankston@opentechinstitute.org">bankston@opentechinstitute.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, December 11, 2013 at 7:16 AM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"James S. Tyre" <<a href="mailto:jstyre@jstyre.com">jstyre@jstyre.com</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:genekimmelman@gmail.com">genekimmelman@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:genekimmelman@gmail.com">genekimmelman@gmail.com</a>>, Mike Godwin <<a href="mailto:mgodwin@internews.org">mgodwin@internews.org</a>>,
"<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:mishi@softwarefreedom.org">mishi@softwarefreedom.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:mishi@softwarefreedom.org">mishi@softwarefreedom.org</a>>,
"<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [bestbits] Reform surveillance<br>
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Indeed. Now *this* is a hook of talking about ad-motivated tracking in relation to NSA! As the story says...
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<p>The National Security Agency is secretly piggybacking on the tools that enable Internet advertisers to track consumers, using "cookies" and location data to pinpoint targets for government hacking and to bolster surveillance.</p>
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<p>For years, privacy advocates have raised concerns about the use of commercial tracking tools to identify and target consumers with advertisements. The online ad industry has said its practices are innocuous and benefit consumers by serving them ads that
are more likely to be of interest to them.</p>
<p>The revelation that the NSA is piggybacking on these commercial technologies could shift that debate, handing privacy advocates a new argument for reining in commercial surveillance.</p>
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