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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><div><div><br></div><div>Gene, it’s hard to assess your suggestion without the numbers, but, if history is any guide, it does not seem to be the case that the NSA has ever been constrained by budget limitations.</div><div><br></div><div>If privacy advocates succeeded in profoundly limiting what internet companies collect, so that the cost to NSA for bulk collection would be 2X instead of X, do we really think NSA wouldn’t be able to get get 2X in appropriations for that particular component of its intelligence gathering? </div><div><br></div><div>If the argument instead is that limits on commercial data-gathering would increase the cost from X to, say, 10X, I’d find <span style="font-weight: bold;">that</span> a persuasive argument for focusing on “supply side” instead of “demand side," by the way — but I’d have to see some numbers in support of that argument to be persuaded.</div><div><br></div><div>In the absence of numbers, I think we have a good historical window for putting limits on USA’s “demand side.” There actually seems to be a taste for that discussion in policy circles right now in the United States.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>—Mike</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div>-- </div><div><div style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(0, 32, 96);">Mike Godwin</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> | Senior Legal Advisor, Global Internet Policy Project</span><span style="font-size: 16.5pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; "><a href="mailto:mgodwin@internews.org" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><span style="font-size: 12px; ">mgodwin@internews.org</span></a><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-size: 9pt;"> | <b>Mobile</b> 415-793-4446</span><span style="font-size: 16.5pt;"><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Skype</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> mnemonic1026</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Address</span></b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> 1601 R Street NW, 2nd Floor Washington, DC 20009 USA</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><b><span style="color: rgb(0, 46, 98); ">INTERNEWS</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(23, 54, 93); "> </span><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">|</span><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(0, 112, 192); "> </span></b><b><span style="font-size: 9pt; color: rgb(13, 92, 171); ">Local Voices. Global Change.</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; "><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 12pt; margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;"><a href="http://www.internews.org/" style="color: purple; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; ">www.internews.org</span></a><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;"> | </span><a href="http://www.twitter.com/internews" style="color: purple; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; ">@internews</span></a><span style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 9pt;"> | </span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/internews" style="color: purple; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; ">facebook.com/internews</span></a></p></div></div></div><div><br></div><span id="OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div style="font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:black; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt"><span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span> "<a href="mailto:genekimmelman@gmail.com">genekimmelman@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:genekimmelman@gmail.com">genekimmelman@gmail.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Reply-To: </span> "<a href="mailto:genekimmelman@gmail.com">genekimmelman@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:genekimmelman@gmail.com">genekimmelman@gmail.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span> Tuesday, December 10, 2013 at 9:45 PM<br><span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span> Mike Godwin <<a href="mailto:mgodwin@internews.org">mgodwin@internews.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:bankston@opentechinstitute.org">bankston@opentechinstitute.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:bankston@opentechinstitute.org">bankston@opentechinstitute.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com">gurstein@gmail.com</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span> "<a href="mailto:mishi@softwarefreedom.org">mishi@softwarefreedom.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:mishi@softwarefreedom.org">mishi@softwarefreedom.org</a>>, "<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>><br><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span> Re: [bestbits] Reform surveillance<br></div><div><br></div><div><div>Let's just not forget that this isn't just a question of whether governments can get personal information, it is a question of how much it costs to get that data. Governments could always invest heavily in surveillance if they wanted to. The relevant question in the digital age is whether commercial practices are making it too easy and cheap for governments. And whether those commercial interests can pursue profit without unduly jeopardizing their customers' privacy. <br><br><br><br><br><br><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"><p align="center"><font style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff">Click <a href="https://www.mailcontrol.com/sr/!K0EkahZmwjGX2PQPOmvUqXvx88Q2j!hmfZgMlPdB37nneXLZwgQsJywJQ1wOt3sFgFD6aNGuqMKIUtpuCToCg==">here</a> to report this email as spam.</font></p></font></div></div></span></body></html>