<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body >Let's just not forget that this isn't just a question of whether governments can get personal information, it is a question of how much it costs to get that data. Governments could always invest heavily in surveillance if they wanted to. The relevant question in the digital age is whether commercial practices are making it too easy and cheap for governments. And whether those commercial interests can pursue profit without unduly jeopardizing their customers' privacy. <br><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: "Mike Godwin (mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG)" <mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG> <br>Date: 12/10/2013 5:19 PM (GMT-05:00) <br>To: Kevin Bankston <bankston@opentechinstitute.org>,michael gurstein <gurstein@gmail.com> <br>Cc: genekimmelman@gmail.com,mishi@softwarefreedom.org,bestbits@lists.bestbits.net <br>Subject: Re: [bestbits] Reform surveillance <br> <br><br><br><br><br><br>On 12/10/13, 4:32 PM, "Kevin Bankston" <bankston@opentechinstitute.org><br>wrote:<br><br><br>>To clarify my point: Although I agree with Mike's prioritization, I also<br>>agree with the general impulse to leverage the NSA scandal to advance a<br>>broader consumer privacy agenda. And I definitely share the general<br>>concern that creating large honeypots of behavioral tracking data creates<br>>a tempting target for the government. But I've seen a lot of vague<br>>overstatements in the press lately on this point, basically saying "this<br>>is all the fault of the Internet companies' advertising-driven<br>>data-hoarding practices", so I just felt the need to point out that as<br>>best I can tell, the types of data and communications content that we<br>>know the NSA is seeking would exist and be stored and be available even<br>>if there was no such thing as targeted advertising or behavioral tracking.<br><br>I absolutely agree with all of this.<br><br>I think building an international consensus on consumer-privacy best<br>practices is very important. But I worry that it distracts us ‹ at this<br>critical historical moment ‹ from the fact that bulk data<br>collection/surveillance is the crack cocaine of governments. We could have<br>the best international consumer privacy regime possible, and every country<br>and company in the world could subscribe to it, and governments would<br>still be sucking up the same data. They¹d just get at it a different way,<br>probably through regulated industries like telcos, banks, and credit-card<br>services.<br><br>Again, speaking only for myself here.<br><br><br>‹Mike<br><br><br><br></body>