<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body >If the supply side insists on personal information for targeted advertising, isn't that entangled with the data governments seek? <br><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Mishi Choudhary <mishi@softwarefreedom.org> <br>Date: 12/10/2013 10:52 AM (GMT-05:00) <br>To: "Mike Godwin (mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG)" <mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG>,bestbits@lists.bestbits.net <br>Subject: Re: [bestbits] Reform surveillance <br> <br><br>I agree with Mike that its crucial to reduce the "demand-side" by<br>regulating government access but I think the suppliers of data are not<br>as informed as they should and could be and the companies have more to<br>do at their end.<br><br><br>On 12/09/2013 07:10 PM, Mike Godwin (mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG) wrote:<br>> Mishi quotes the Times:<br>><br>><br>>> "While the Internet companies fight to maintain authority over their<br>>> customers¹ data, their business models depend on collecting the same<br>>> information that the spy agencies want, and they have long cooperated<br>>> with the government to some extent by handing over data in response to<br>>> legal requests.<br>> This statement strikes me as disingenuously oversimplistic on the Times¹s<br>> part ‹ specifically, in saying that the Internet companies are collecting<br>> ³the same information that the spy agencies want.² Yes, the agencies want<br>> the data the companies have, but the companies are gathering data about<br>> consumption and viewing patterns, primarily. What the agencies want is<br>> traffic and association analysis, and they know they can draw inferences<br>> if they have large datasets.<br>><br>> This may seem like a subtle distinction, but really it¹s not. It¹s like<br>> saying ³I listen to changes in the tone of your voice when you speak to<br>> me, and so does the snooping spy who wiretaps your phone, and therefore,<br>> implicitly, the spy and I are both culpable somehow.²<br>><br>> What I perceive in all this is an attempt to muddy the issue and<br>> delegitimize the internet companies¹ sincere efforts to build and/or<br>> restore consumer trust. I¹m critical of the companies from time to time<br>> (and there are times when I¹m mostly critical of what all the companies<br>> are doing), but to me the real analysis here is that governments have<br>> opportunistically taken advantage of what the companies have been<br>> gathering, most of the time in good faith, from users.<br>><br>>> The new principles outlined by the companies contain little information<br>>> and few promises about their own practices, which privacy advocates say<br>>> contribute to the government¹s desire to tap into the companies¹ data<br>>> systems.<br>>><br>>> ³The companies are placing their users at risk by collecting and<br>>> retaining so much information,² said Marc Rotenberg, president and<br>>> executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, a<br>>> nonprofit research and advocacy organization. ³As long as this much<br>>> personal data is collected and kept by these companies, they are always<br>>> going to be the target of government collection efforts.²<br>> I take Marc at his word, as always, but the fact is that if the companies<br>> cut their data gathering in half ‹ or even by a factor of 10 or 100 ‹<br>> governments will want to engage in bulk collection and interception. The<br>> key approach, in my view, is to try to reduce the demand-side (by<br>> regulating what governments can do) rather conflate it with the supply<br>> side (the fact that commercial enterprises gather data from actual and<br>> potential customers (or for them).<br>><br>><br>> ‹Mike, speaking only for myself<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br><br><br>-- <br>Warm Regards<br>Mishi Choudhary, Esq.<br>Legal Director<br>Software Freedom Law Center<br>1995 Broadway Floor 17<br>New York, NY-10023<br>(tel) 212-461-1912<br>(fax) 212-580-0898<br>www.softwarefreedom.org<br><br><br>Executive Director <br>SFLC.IN<br>K-9, Second Floor<br>Jangpura Extn.<br>New Delhi-110014<br>(tel) +91-11-43587126 <br>(fax) +91-11-24323530<br>www.sflc.in<br><br></body>