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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Exactly!<br>
<br>
On 12/10/2013 11:02 AM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genekimmelman@gmail.com">genekimmelman@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:1t8rfqtmbwtcrwynlo30far4.1386691338487@email.android.com"
type="cite">
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If the supply side insists on personal information for targeted
advertising, isn't that entangled with the data governments
seek? <br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original message --------<br>
From: Mishi Choudhary <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mishi@softwarefreedom.org"><mishi@softwarefreedom.org></a> <br>
Date: 12/10/2013 10:52 AM (GMT-05:00) <br>
To: "Mike Godwin (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG">mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG</a>)"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG"><mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG></a>,<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a> <br>
Subject: Re: [bestbits] Reform surveillance <br>
<br>
<br>
I agree with Mike that its crucial to reduce the "demand-side" by<br>
regulating government access but I think the suppliers of data are
not<br>
as informed as they should and could be and the companies have
more to<br>
do at their end.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 12/09/2013 07:10 PM, Mike Godwin (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG">mgodwin@INTERNEWS.ORG</a>) wrote:<br>
> Mishi quotes the Times:<br>
><br>
><br>
>> "While the Internet companies fight to maintain authority
over their<br>
>> customers¹ data, their business models depend on
collecting the same<br>
>> information that the spy agencies want, and they have
long cooperated<br>
>> with the government to some extent by handing over data
in response to<br>
>> legal requests.<br>
> This statement strikes me as disingenuously oversimplistic on
the Times¹s<br>
> part ‹ specifically, in saying that the Internet companies
are collecting<br>
> ³the same information that the spy agencies want.² Yes, the
agencies want<br>
> the data the companies have, but the companies are gathering
data about<br>
> consumption and viewing patterns, primarily. What the
agencies want is<br>
> traffic and association analysis, and they know they can draw
inferences<br>
> if they have large datasets.<br>
><br>
> This may seem like a subtle distinction, but really it¹s not.
It¹s like<br>
> saying ³I listen to changes in the tone of your voice when
you speak to<br>
> me, and so does the snooping spy who wiretaps your phone, and
therefore,<br>
> implicitly, the spy and I are both culpable somehow.²<br>
><br>
> What I perceive in all this is an attempt to muddy the issue
and<br>
> delegitimize the internet companies¹ sincere efforts to build
and/or<br>
> restore consumer trust. I¹m critical of the companies from
time to time<br>
> (and there are times when I¹m mostly critical of what all the
companies<br>
> are doing), but to me the real analysis here is that
governments have<br>
> opportunistically taken advantage of what the companies have
been<br>
> gathering, most of the time in good faith, from users.<br>
><br>
>> The new principles outlined by the companies contain
little information<br>
>> and few promises about their own practices, which privacy
advocates say<br>
>> contribute to the government¹s desire to tap into the
companies¹ data<br>
>> systems.<br>
>><br>
>> ³The companies are placing their users at risk by
collecting and<br>
>> retaining so much information,² said Marc Rotenberg,
president and<br>
>> executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information
Center, a<br>
>> nonprofit research and advocacy organization. ³As long as
this much<br>
>> personal data is collected and kept by these companies,
they are always<br>
>> going to be the target of government collection efforts.²<br>
> I take Marc at his word, as always, but the fact is that if
the companies<br>
> cut their data gathering in half ‹ or even by a factor of 10
or 100 ‹<br>
> governments will want to engage in bulk collection and
interception. The<br>
> key approach, in my view, is to try to reduce the demand-side
(by<br>
> regulating what governments can do) rather conflate it with
the supply<br>
> side (the fact that commercial enterprises gather data from
actual and<br>
> potential customers (or for them).<br>
><br>
><br>
> ‹Mike, speaking only for myself<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Warm Regards<br>
Mishi Choudhary, Esq.<br>
Legal Director<br>
Software Freedom Law Center<br>
1995 Broadway Floor 17<br>
New York, NY-10023<br>
(tel) 212-461-1912<br>
(fax) 212-580-0898<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.softwarefreedom.org">www.softwarefreedom.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Executive Director <br>
SFLC.IN<br>
K-9, Second Floor<br>
Jangpura Extn.<br>
New Delhi-110014<br>
(tel) +91-11-43587126 <br>
(fax) +91-11-24323530<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.sflc.in">www.sflc.in</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Warm Regards
Mishi Choudhary, Esq.
Legal Director
Software Freedom Law Center
1995 Broadway Floor 17
New York, NY-10023
(tel) 212-461-1912
(fax) 212-580-0898
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.softwarefreedom.org">www.softwarefreedom.org</a>
Executive Director
SFLC.IN
K-9, Second Floor
Jangpura Extn.
New Delhi-110014
(tel) +91-11-43587126
(fax) +91-11-24323530
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.sflc.in">www.sflc.in</a>
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