<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Two years ago, I published "The MAG: To be on not to be" on <a href="http://nnennaorg.blogspot.com/2012/02/mag-to-be-or-not-to-be.html">http://nnennaorg.blogspot.com/2012/02/mag-to-be-or-not-to-be.html</a> I gave reasons for saying "No" all the time. Having read some of the thoughts expresssed on this thread, it is unfortunate that the tendancy is still there that being on the MAG is a position, in stead of a responsibility. That, for me, is really worrying.<br>
<br></div>I have always had a "Thanks, but no, thanks" attitude. This time, however, you will find my name on IGC, Best Bits and even Diplo.<br><br></div>I only made a nomination: that is on Bestt Bits. Those on Diplo have my blog post to refer to. I was nominated by someone in the IGC.<br>
<br></div>For some of us who might not know, referring BB-endorsed nominees to the IGC NomCom will not equal a collective CS- MAG nomination. Because at the moment, other CS entities are doing nominations. And some of these are also in BB and IGC.<br>
<br></div>While Jeremy is airbound and may not be able to reply to many threads, I will say that the spirit of his email was:<br></div>"Here are the nominations that people have made that were submitted to the BB Steering" It is not in any way over riding the BB list. Since that mail, Imran Shah has self nominated (So we dont forget).<br>
<br></div><br></div>I think that we have said and it is still my understanding , that BB is an action platform. So it amuses me to see emails saying "we cannot do" xyz. We are here to do things!<br><br></div>My 2 cents/<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 3:14 PM, michael gurstein <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks for this Anriette and one observation to make about the list and information that you have provided…<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">One obvious impact of the “black box” that is the MAG selection procedure is that—since the Business and Technical groupings are highly skewed to both Developed Country and Male representation, and since they are in effect unmovable, that means that in order for the UN to maintain gender and regional parity there needs to be a highly skewed parallel selection from the remaining stakeholder group i.e. CS, with the effect as we, see that the CS representation is highly skewed towards females 11 out of 16 and towards Developing countries and countries in transition, 9/10 out of 16 (depending how you count).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Nothing in principle wrong with that but it does reduce the chances of us pale males being selected to rather close to zero (and perhaps explains why Jeremy and myself (nominated by the IGC 3 times) have been singularly unsuccessful). <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Perhaps that is no loss, but then again perhaps it is.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">M<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> <a href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Anriette Esterhuysen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 20, 2013 6:27 AM<br><b>To:</b> Joana Varon; Marianne Franklin<br><b>Cc:</b> <,<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>>,</span></p>
<div class="im"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits] Best Bits MAG nominations for your approval - URGENT<u></u><u></u></div><p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
Dear all</p><div><div class="h5"><br><br>It is one of those weeks for me. Sorry.. I have not been able to follow this adequately. We are revising proposals, logframes and we are having an APC council meeting. <br>I just wanted to add one piece of clarification. The current CS MAG members have all served for under 2 years, with one exception. For reasons that I still don't fully understand, the UN over-rotated CS members on the MAG. This had a very dramatic impact on CS's influence in the MAG. <br>
<br>Other stakeholder groups have not been as dramatically rotated, and there are some individuals that have stayed on since the beginning. The reason this happens I can share because I demanded to know and managed to get clarification from New York. The reason is that tech and business re-nominate people every year, and they give the secretariat a 'full slate' that includes names to be retired, and names to be added.<br>
<br>Coming back to CS. Here is the current listing of people and the year they joined. As you can see, they joined in May 2012 or later, with one exception. This does not mean we don't need rotation. There are some people that have not worked hard enough for reasons of being too busy, unableI to come to meetings (funding is not always available), or just lacking confidence. MAG work is not easy. In my view that means they should not remain. But there are some people on this list who have worked very hard, and who have managed to push through some difficult and challenging debates and I do think that it is important to keep them.<br>
<br><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/951-mag-bio-esterhuysen" target="_blank"><b>Ms. Esterhuysen, Anriette</b></a>: <a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a> 2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/942-mag-bio-aizu" target="_blank"><b>Mr. Aizu, Izumi</b></a><b>: </b><a href="mailto:iza@anr.org" target="_blank">iza@anr.org</a><u><span style="color:blue"> </span></u>2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/954-mag-bio-guo" target="_blank"><b>Mr. Guo, Liang</b></a>: <a href="mailto:guoliang@gmail.com" target="_blank">guoliang@gmail.com</a> 2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/957-mag-bio-mangal" target="_blank"><b>Ms. Mangal, Anju</b></a>: <a href="mailto:anjum@spc.int" target="_blank">anjum@spc.int</a> 2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/947-mag-bio-cretu" target="_blank"><b>Ms. Cretu, Veronica: </b>veronica@cretu.md</a><span style="color:blue"> </span>2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/955-mag-bio-kelly" target="_blank"><b>Ms. Kelly, Sanja</b></a>: <a href="mailto:kelly@freedomhouse.org" target="_blank">kelly@freedomhouse.org</a> 2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/959-mag-bio-morenets-" target="_blank"><b>Ms. Morenets, Yuliya</b></a><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"">: </span><a href="mailto:contact@againstcybercrime.eu" target="_blank">contact@againstcybercrime.eu</a> 2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/966-mag-bio-radunoic" target="_blank"><b>Mr. Radunovic, Vladimir: </b>vladar@diplomacy.edu<b> </b></a><u><span style="color:blue"> </span></u>2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="mailto:Ms.Zachariah,Desiree:dazachariah@gmail.com" target="_blank">Ms. Zachariah, Desiree: dazachariah@gmail.com </a>2013<u><span style="color:blue"><br></span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/949-mag-bio-drake-" target="_blank"><b>Mr. Drake, William</b></a><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman , serif","serif"">: </span><a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a> 2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/952-mag-bio-fell" target="_blank"><b>Ms. Fell, Lucinda</b></a>: <a href="mailto:lucinda@childnet.com" target="_blank">lucinda@childnet.com</a> 2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/mag/45-mag-membership/1294-ms-fatima-cambronero" target="_blank"><b>Ms. Cambronero, Fátima: </b>fatimacambronero@gmail.com</a> 2013<a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/mag/45-mag-membership/1294-ms-fatima-cambronero" target="_blank"><b> </b></a><u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/960-mag-bio-nalwoga" target="_blank"><b>Ms. Nalwoga, Lillian</b></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><a href="mailto:lnalwoga@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">lnalwoga@gmail.com</span></a> 2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/component/content/article/114-preparatory-process/961-mag-bio-okite" target="_blank"><b>Ms. Okite, Judith</b></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><a href="mailto:judyokite@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">judyokite@gmail.com</span></a> 2012<u><span style="color:blue"><br>
</span></u><a href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/index.php/qusai" target="_blank"><b>Mr. Al Shatti, Qusai</b></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""> </span><a href="mailto:qshatti@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">qshatti@gmail.com</span></a> 2006 <br>
Subi Chaturvedi: 2013 <br><br>Anriette - writing in my capacity as an individual who has served on the MAG since May 2012 and who would like to remain for another term. <u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p><div><div class="h5">
<div><p class="MsoNormal">On 20/11/2013 16:09, Joana Varon wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear all, <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Please, allow me to raise a suggestion of the broader procedure: <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
I see this issue is getting complicated and sensitive and, particularly reading Mawaki's email, I sense that there is some misunderstandings that are particularly coming up from the fact that part of the people in the list didn't attend BB meeting in Bali and deserve some clarification about what happened there. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I know that everybody is really busy as since Bali the pace of events is accelerated (and on my case particularly overwhelmed with Brazil meeting issues), but I might be really useful if the steering make a joined effort to manage to report back from the meeting, particularly about the session on BB structure, so whoever that reads the wiki procedures will also have this background info.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>In the main while, let's try to trust each other a little bit... I'm pretty totally comfortable to reaffirm that there is a lot of good will within the steering, sometime we stumble in procedures, true, we are all testing methods, its part of the task, but are also truly open for suggestions and to implement changes. So, please, be sure concerns raised here are being heard. Let's just not block important things to get done. <br>
<br>Therefore, I would suggest that we keep this thread to at least have the list of people that BB would like to suggest, having in mind the issue raised about indicating or not people that are already there. Deciding if it is going through IGC or not would be the next (complicated) step. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">all the best<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">joana<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Marianne Franklin <<a href="mailto:m.i.franklin@gold.ac.uk" target="_blank">m.i.franklin@gold.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
Dear all<br><br>Could I suggest that all the names of anyone going up for the MAG from both current slates (i.e. run by the IGC and being collated through Best Bits) be posted so that we can inform other networks of who is standing. <br>
<br>Whether they are looking to stand as an IGC nominee or Best Bits nominee can be noted. <br><br>Ongoing, and important discussions about the Best Bits governance structure need to continue, and as a member of the interim BB Steering as well as co-Chair of the IRP Coalition I support the need for clarity here too. But right at this moment as the list and candidates form, it would be good for anyone else considering standing for the MAG to know who is currently doing so. If a person is standing in two places could they nominate which one they are opting for too to save space and time?<br>
<br>Also, I join those affirmations of the work done by all standing MAG members, in this case from civil society, who are continuing. Thank you all for the hard and often unrewarded and unrelenting work on this group. <br>
<br>best<br>MF <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 20/11/2013 10:17, Jeremy Malcolm wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div><p class="MsoNormal">(Replying from phone.) I had suggested off this list that we omit any mention of the incumbent MAG members and limit our candidates to those who will fill slots that will be open anyway. If we clarify that we support the continuation of the candidates who are eligible for continuing, and drop the specific candidates mentioned, this may help?<br>
<br>-- <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Jeremy Malcolm PhD LLB (Hons) B Com<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Internet and Open Source lawyer, consumer advocate, geek <u></u><u></u></p></div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal">host -t NAPTR 5.9.8.5.2.8.2.2.1.0.6.<a href="http://e164.org" target="_blank">e164.org</a>|awk -F! '{print $3}'<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p>
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<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On 20 Nov 2013, at 6:10 pm, Poncelet Ileleji <<a href="mailto:pileleji@ymca.gm" target="_blank">pileleji@ymca.gm</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hello Colleagues,<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Good day, I think its important for continuity especially as in my opinion the current CS MAG members are doing a great work and have really put in a lot of time to this , I concur will Bill and strongly belief in the overall continuity of all current CS MAG members<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Regards<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">Poncelet<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
</div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 20 November 2013 10:05, William Drake <<a href="mailto:william.drake@uzh.ch" target="_blank">william.drake@uzh.ch</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal">Hi <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Just woke up and am rushing to a meeting but would appreciate clarification. When was the call for nominations, when was the deadline for submission, and when was the period in which list members then expressed views either way before you decided to go ahead? Some of us are a bit busy in Buenos Aires dealing with Brazil meeting and such and are awash in a tidal wave of communications and meetings, so I at least missed all this. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">By selecting these six names, including just two current CS MAG members, do you wish to convey to the Secretariat and DESA that you do not support the continued participation of all the current CS MAG members not listed, irrespective of the time and work they’ve put in, how long they’ve been been on it, etc?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">It seems unduly abrupt, so please note my objection as well.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Bill<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Nov 20, 2013, at 4:15 AM, Jeremy Malcolm <<a href="mailto:jeremy@ciroap.org" target="_blank">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 20 Nov 2013, at 1:25 pm, parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">As said before, I do not agree to steering committee choosing MAG nominees, or other kinds of reps, or next steering committee's membership, and so on.... These are serious. important issues which should have a clear, transparent, accountable and thus legitimate process around it. And I dont see that in place.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">We have not chosen the MAG nominees, we have simply collected the nominations, suggested criteria that could be used to evaluate them, and forwarded them back to the main list with a recommendation. Although your objection was noted, most others were comfortable with this process and since we do not have voting or membership as such, we decided to go ahead. If appropriate your objection could probably be noted in some way in the letter that goes to the MAG.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">-- </span><u></u><u></u></p><p><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Dr Jeremy Malcolm<br>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Poncelet O. Ileleji MBCS<br>Coordinator<br>The Gambia YMCAs Computer Training Centre & Digital Studio<br>MDI Road Kanifing South<br>
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<a href="http://www.waigf.org" target="_blank">www.waigf.org</a><br><a href="http://www.aficta.org" target="_blank">www.aficta.org</a><br><a href="http://www.itag.gm" target="_blank">www.itag.gm</a><br><a href="http://www.npoc.org" target="_blank">www.npoc.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753" target="_blank">http://www.wsa-mobile.org/node/753</a><br><cite><a href="http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org" target="_blank">www.diplointernetgovernance.org</a></cite><br><br>
<br></span></i><u></u><u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
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</div></blockquote></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Professor Marianne Franklin<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Convener: Global Media & Transnational Communications Program<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Co-Chair Internet Rights & Principles Coalition (UN IGF)<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Goldsmiths, University of London<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>Dept. of Media & Communications<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>New Cross, London SE14 6NW<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Tel: <a href="tel:%2B44%2020%207919%207072" target="_blank">+44 20 7919 7072</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre><a href="mailto:m.i.franklin@gold.ac.uk" target="_blank"><m.i.franklin@gold.ac.uk></a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>@GloComm<u></u><u></u></pre><pre><a href="https://twitter.com/GloComm" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/GloComm</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre><a href="http://www.gold.ac.uk/media-communications/staff/franklin/" target="_blank">http://www.gold.ac.uk/media-communications/staff/franklin/</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="https://www.gold.ac.uk/pg/ma-global-media-transnational-communications/" target="_blank">https://www.gold.ac.uk/pg/ma-global-media-transnational-communications/</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre><a href="http://www.internetrightsandprinciples.org" target="_blank">www.internetrightsandprinciples.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>@netrights<u></u><u></u></pre></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>____________________________________________________________<br>You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>.<br>
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<br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>-- <br><br>Joana Varon Ferraz<br>@joana_varon<br>PGP 0x016B8E73<u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquote><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><pre>-- <u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>------------------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>anriette esterhuysen <a href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre>executive director, association for progressive communications<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.apc.org" target="_blank">www.apc.org</a><u></u><u></u></pre><pre>po box 29755, melville 2109<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>south africa<u></u><u></u></pre><pre>tel/fax <a href="tel:%2B27%2011%20726%201692" value="+27117261692" target="_blank">+27 11 726 1692</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
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