<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">Hello,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 9:48 AM, Mawaki Chango <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kichango@gmail.com" target="_blank">kichango@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><snip> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><br></div><div>4. Lastly, please note that a more substantive document (including CS proposed agenda) coming out of Bali should be addressed to both President Rousseff and Chair & CEO Chehade.</div><div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><div>Apologies for the cross-post.</div><div><br></div>I'll take no position on the IGC crafting a letter. But moving beyond asserting civ soc's intention to shape the agenda of the Rio event and to Mawaki's last point, the IGP has posted some ideas for a proposed agenda. It includes specific, executable steps that can be taken to move ICANN away from unilateral oversight:</div>
<div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.internetgovernance.org/2013/10/16/a-blueprint-for-the-future-oversight-of-icann/" target="_blank">http://www.internetgovernance.org/2013/10/16/a-blueprint-for-the-future-oversight-of-icann/</a> </div>
</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br clear="all"><div>---------------------------------------<br>Brenden Kuerbis<br>Internet Governance Project<br><a href="http://internetgovernance.org/" target="_blank">http://internetgovernance.org</a></div>
</div><div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>
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<div>Thanks,</div><div><br></div><div>Mawaki </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Norbert Bollow <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nb@bollow.ch" target="_blank">nb@bollow.ch</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div>Anja Kovacs <<a href="mailto:anja@internetdemocracy.in" target="_blank">anja@internetdemocracy.in</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I do want to<br>
> make it explicit, however, that this has not changed my stance and<br>
> that I remain as unconvinced of these arguments as before.<br>
<br>
</div>*nod* You have made your view on this abundantly clear.<br>
<div><br>
> Let me maybe use this opportunity, though, to add two more points<br>
> about the process. Many might decide to keep quiet on the consensus<br>
> call for the proposed statement, but as so many people have expressed<br>
> discomfort about the statement during the past two days, I think it<br>
> would be quite the fallacy to think that 'consensus' has ever been<br>
> reached on this even if nobody stops this initiative.<br>
<br>
</div>The precise definition of “consensus” is “lack of sustained opposition”.<br>
That is what it means, not more, not less. If some people are strongly<br>
in favor and no-one is sufficiently strongly opposed to sustain<br>
opposition (and depending on the circumstances possibly spend political<br>
capital in doing so), in a consensus process that results in a decision<br>
in favor.<br>
<br>
Expressions of discomfort are politically safe, in the sense of not<br>
expending political capital, precisely because they don't prevent a<br>
consensus decision from being reached.<br>
<br>
If “consensus” meant that every single person has to be in favor, most<br>
organizations that use consensus-based decision processes would never<br>
reach any decisions.<br>
<div><br>
> we are effectively working against each other here.<br>
<br>
</div>Unless you mean what may possibly have been an implied demand in some of<br>
the postings, that IGC should shut up because BestBits is going to<br>
discuss the topic at the upcoming meeting and then take some action, I<br>
strongly disagree with the view that “we are effectively working<br>
against each other here”.<br>
<br>
In my view, the proposed letter of IGC and whoever else will co-sign it<br>
does not in any way reduce the effectiveness of the planned BestBits<br>
action. Quite on the contrary, in my view, without the first letter it<br>
could very easily be the case that by the time of the BestBits letter it<br>
could be too late and the entire action might be ineffective. I do<br>
understand that you see and/or weigh the risks differently.<br>
<div><br>
> I wanted to thank Mawaki, therefore, for his efforts to find an<br>
> alternative. If that could be a solution for all<br>
<br>
</div>No, that is not a solution at all from my perspective, and since I've<br>
already explained the reasons in detail why I think that the present<br>
letter needs to be addressed to President Rousseff, I'll not repeat<br>
them again.<br>
<br>
Greetings,<br>
Norbert<br>
<br>
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