<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font face="Verdana">Thanks for this excellent analysis, Mawaki,<br>
<br>
Just adding a few more points.<br>
<br>
Most of such 'really politically meaningful' initiatives like the
Rousseff-ICANN one, rather the somewhat less than real ones like
the IGF, look at civil society as a pesky, disruptive group of
people, and would not dare take them in into the core organising
effort in any really meaningful way... Brazil has been different
in substantial ways, both at domestic as well as global levels,
and there is an outside chance here that civil society, in its
real sense rather just co-opting select people, may just get in a
foot in the door early. With the possibility that civil society
could in fact be a real partner, as to some extent it is in the
Open Government Partnership.... However, unlike like open gov
movement, global IG is a highly political space, and any such
opportunity will quickly lost. Be sure that right now many big
global powers are making fervent calculations about how to respond
to this sudden development of Dilma-ICANN initiative, and they
will set in various kinds of strategies - including subversive
ones - very soon. The canvass therefore is a rapidly shifting one,
and if civil society has to act, it has to act rapidly - whichever
be the directions of its efforts. That is all..<br>
<br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Saturday 12 October 2013 05:10 PM,
Mawaki Chango wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CACTo+v8ARyzWfePjqjDe1tcDWPBHwuG7OVDV2Bus3=stgxnO_A@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Anja has a point... and so does Parminder. We
wouldn't want this initiative to set in as one of two leaders of
two camps, with CS being only reactive (as often) after the
details of the initiative are defined, or even after that
narrative about the initiative is widely publicized. I have to
say I'm a little surprised, for all the energy and time we have
spent debating ourselves and against each others over the last
too many months, and too many other months before that, and
again before, etc. we do not have at this point a compiled list
of critical questions, items, issues we think are priorities
that need to be addressed as part of international policy for
the global internet governance.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Ideally, the existence of such list would have helped
address the two perspectives: Put international CS on the map
within a couple of days after the news emerged and yet in a
way that is even more substantive than the initiative itself
in its initial form. Imagine that! Maybe those high-level
leaders and their institutions would now be reacting to CS in
the process of moving their agenda forward on this.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And I shall add that exactly was the challenge put before
us by the Indian Minister we met in Baku. To paraphrase, he
basically said and asked: You (CS) know as well as we (Govt.)
do that these issues are complex, and there is no simple,
one-sided solution. As the challenges of the internet continue
to manifest themselves, governments will always try to do what
they do best (at least from the standpoint of states), the
best way they know. But in the meantime what are you CS
proposing? How can you help us do what needs to be done
without unwanted collateral damages (wrt the rights of honest
people, etc.)? (Or something along those lines.) I know there
are individuals among us who have been doing substantive work,
including research. But as a whole, we CS enjoy chatters. We
always seem to want to have a place at the table before
thinking things through. And we put our small money where our
mouth is, that is, in chatters. And our energy in contentious
useless debates.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Now back to the main point: Could the following be a worthy
solution? Send a brief message of support to the initiative
but at a lower level than the presidency, in which we would
also announce that a letter to the president will follow
within the next two weeks or so. The recipient for the
Brazilian government should be someone who has enough official
credentials to receive such communications on behalf of the
government (starting with Mr Daniel Calvacanti possibly all
the way to the Minister) while avoiding any official who might
be on the opposite side to President Rousseff on this issue in
terms of the Brazilian domestic politics (for instance if that
were to be the case of the Minister, avoid this letter going
there.) Just an idea I'm tossing around... Not sure it really
resolves any of the problems underlining the two perspectives
mentioned above.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Lastly, to those who want to further entertain the debate
about whether these leaders mean what they say, and by the
way, what is it that is entailed by what they just said, etc.
I'd like to remind you that being strategic is also sometimes
to take someone's at his (positive) word and gently push /
help him along while keeping your skepticism to yourself. Of
course such skepticism will be useful in watching closely the
other person's moves and anticipating or getting ready for
possible alternate courses of action in case the other person
in his actions defaults on his declared intentions. But it
shouldn't prevent us from moving forward at first on the basis
of an optimistic premise drawn from a probable / justifiable /
demonstrable meaning of what they've said. So we don't really
need to figure out whether anyone is being naive here or to
sit around and wait for anyone to dot the i's and cross the
t's in this proposal before we can move on it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My 2, uh... cedies (Ghana currency, in my other wallet,
which I can't use where I am, so there you have it.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Mawaki</div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com"
target="_blank">salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On Oct 12, 2013, at 4:35 PM, Jeremy Malcolm <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jeremy@ciroap.org" target="_blank">jeremy@ciroap.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div>On 12/10/2013, at 1:07 AM, Anja Kovacs <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anja@internetdemocracy.in"
target="_blank">anja@internetdemocracy.in</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Also because we don't have to
sit still in the mean time. There are other
ways in which we can make evident to the
Brazilian government that we are interested
in working with them on this and support
this idea, including by communicating with
them to find out more directly and by seeing
whether we can work with them on this
through the IGF. <br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also blogging about it. Use your own
organisational or personal blog if you have one.
If you don't, CircleID is a good choice.
Otherwise you can actually blog at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://igcaucus.org" target="_blank">igcaucus.org</a>
itself, or <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://igf-online.net" target="_blank">igf-online.net</a>
or <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://igfwatch.org" target="_blank">igfwatch.org</a>.
This (particularly CircleID) would have more
reach than a letter anyway.</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
Fantastic idea!
<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>
<div
style="font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div
style="font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word">
<div
style="font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><span
style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span
style="border-collapse:separate;font-variant:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word">
<span
style="font-style:normal;font-size:medium;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:normal">-- </span><br>
<p
style="font-style:normal;font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:normal"><b>Dr
Jeremy Malcolm<br>
Senior Policy
Officer<br>
Consumers
International
| the global
campaigning
voice for
consumers</b><br>
Office for
Asia-Pacific and
the Middle East<br>
Lot 5-1 Wisma
WIM, 7 Jalan
Abang Haji
Openg, TTDI,
60000 Kuala
Lumpur, Malaysia<br>
Tel: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B60%203%207726%201599" value="+60377261599" target="_blank">+60
3 7726 1599</a></p>
<p
style="font-style:normal;font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:normal"><span>Explore
our new
Resource Zone
- the global
consumer
movement
knowledge hub
|</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/news-and-media/resource-zone"
target="_blank">http://www.consumersinternational.org/news-and-media/resource-zone</a></p>
<p
style="font-style:normal;font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:normal">@Consumers_Int
| <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/" target="_blank">www.consumersinternational.org</a> | <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.facebook.com/consumersinternational"
target="_blank">www.facebook.com/consumersinternational</a></p>
<p
style="color:rgb(153,153,153);font-style:normal;font-size:8pt;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:normal">Read
our <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.consumersinternational.org/email-confidentiality"
target="_blank">email
confidentiality
notice</a>.
Don't print this
email unless
necessary.</p>
<p><font
color="#ff2600"><b>WARNING</b></font><span
style="font-style:normal;font-size:medium;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:normal">:
This email has
not been
encrypted. You
are strongly
recommended to
enable PGP or
S/MIME
encryption at
your end. For
instructions,
see </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://jere.my/l/8m"
title="https://luxsci.com/blog/installing-smime-and-pgp-encryption-certificates-into-major-email-clients.html"
rel="nofollow
external"
style="color:rgb(153,153,153);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal"
target="_blank">http://jere.my/l/8m</a><span
style="font-style:normal;font-size:medium;font-family:Helvetica;font-weight:normal">.</span></p>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
You received this message as a subscriber on the list:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org"
target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a><br>
To be removed from the list, visit:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing"
target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/unsubscribing</a><br>
<br>
For all other list information and functions, see:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance"
target="_blank">http://lists.igcaucus.org/info/governance</a><br>
To edit your profile and to find the IGC's charter, see:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.igcaucus.org/" target="_blank">http://www.igcaucus.org/</a><br>
<br>
Translate this email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://translate.google.com/translate_t"
target="_blank">http://translate.google.com/translate_t</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>