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<font face="Verdana">Hi Rafik<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 11 October 2013 09:00 PM,
Rafik Dammak wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAH5sTh=9EspyFdfKAkhx0qrLPuP0vbPw0xyZmL1CgpytNT-s3g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Parminder,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>sorry I was not asking about the draft letter but more
what I understood from your proposal is that we move quickly
and spend time shorter than usual even if there are
concerns . </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Firstly, we can take the usual time for seeking consensus. Just
not postpone to another time... Secondly, I have not clearly
heard, or any rate understood, the concerns.<br>
<br>
Lets be clear what we are doing at present - Just welcoming an
initiative that by all means looks like a serious outcome oriented
or at least outcome seeking one, and saying that we want to be
there right away driving it along with others.... What is wrong
with it. The potential benefit is clear - we try to get a bit tri
- lateral about this initiative.... Any other time will be too
late.... And as I said I dont see the downside....<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAH5sTh=9EspyFdfKAkhx0qrLPuP0vbPw0xyZmL1CgpytNT-s3g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I want to be sure if I got you message correctly.</div>
<div>I am still cautious with hurrying to write letter , I am
still not convinced and I want to highlight that any action
we take, will have impact soon or later and can backfire.
I don't think that you would disagree with more strategical
approach. <br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
You are just making a general statement that caution and foresight
is good - and with such a statement who can disagree.... But here
I havent been told the risk - and beyond a point, just about any
political act carries risk. <br>
<br>
Regards, parminder <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAH5sTh=9EspyFdfKAkhx0qrLPuP0vbPw0xyZmL1CgpytNT-s3g@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">Best,</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Rafik</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/10/11 parminder <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font
face="Verdana">It is here<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014"
target="_blank">http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014</a><br>
<br>
Just a word of caution - we dont want to make this
an ominbus document of demands. At this stage we
need a clear, crisp and strong letter, of a few
sentences, that Brazilian President or some top guy
would actually read, and not get confusing messages.
I am not saying we should not say whatever we
definitively want to say - but be clear and short,
that is all.<span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
parminder<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>On Friday 11 October 2013 11:15 AM, Rafik
Dammak wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Parminder,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>sorry I am not really getting the
proposal you are developing here? can you
please clarify?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div> Rafik </div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2013/10/11
parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
<font face="Verdana">Since as argued
below, in our judgement, time is
strategically of essense, some of us
would keep working on a posible text
over today and try to present
something to IGC and BB by the end
of the day.... We do very much hope
IGC and BB can sign on it by
consensus, but it doesnt happen we
would open it to organisations and
people who want to sign it (sorry,
this is a practice I normally do not
like so much, but I dont think it is
ok that we can produce a statement
to critique a UN process is just no
time, with all kind of ambiguous
languages, and on such an important
- potential game changer -
initiative from a developing
country, a paralysis seems to be
setting in)...<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
</font></span></font>
<div>
<div>
<div>On Friday 11 October 2013
11:02 AM, parminder wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Well let
then that be as it has to be...
"<span>There is <em>a tide</em>
in the <em>affairs of men</em>.
Which, taken at the flood,
leads on to fortune"... </span><br>
<br>
Leadership doesnt come searching
for you, you have to seize
it.... President Rousseff was
made, what would have perhaps
been, somewhat a regular kind of
offer. She seized it with both
her hands, even announced the
like month etc.. That is what
gave it such a sudden high
prominence, and people are
celebrating Rousseff, and
somewhere, if it plays its cards
well, Brazil have now got an
edge.... which it can use to
further its interest...<br>
<br>
Civil society also is supposed
to be representing some
interests - real interests of
real people, who are most
marginalised, and we have to
take our own responsibility
seriously . We cannot be
eternally paralysed, which hurts
these interests. If there are
real differences of views, well,
that counts.... But a permanent
simple wait-and-watch attitude
would do us no good...<br>
<br>
Lets analyse what we have
here.... Or what risks we run
and what gains we can make...
And others must also contribute
what they think are risks or
advantages.... merely saying we
are not sure yet, tells talk
more, do face to face and
all,,,, Such stuff I think, just
my own view, is not the
appropriate response. <br>
<br>
ICANN, either on its own or tech
community's behalf tries to cosy
up to the Brazilians (perhaps in
anticipation of the new proposal
for democratising global IG that
Rousseff said Brazil will soon
present - BTW, the day of the
annual discussion on WSIS and IG
issues in the UN GA is 22nd Oct,
but whatever...) . It proposes a
real dialogue to see what needs
to be changed about the global
governance of the Internet.
Rousseff immediately seizes the
initiative, and even declares a
possible timeline, just like
that, off-hand.... That is
leadership material. That is all
that has happened, and that is
all anyone knows has happened.
There is nothing hidden that
civil society may suddenly
become complicit to if they
support this proposal.<br>
<br>
In supporting it, we would only
be saying - <br>
(1) yes, we agree that 'a real
dialogue' on what needs to
change in global governance of
the Internet should take place
with some urgency, <br>
(2) such a dialogue should take
place in an open and not a
hidden manner, <br>
(3) it is certainly encouraging
that the initiative comes from
one of the key developing
nations - the main votaries of a
'real change' - and ICANN or the
technical community - seen as
the main symbol and defender of
status quo,and that <br>
(4) we want civil society to be
equally there in the middle of
all action, as the dialogue
shapes and takes place...<br>
<br>
Nothing more and nothing less.
(If anything sinister about the
proposed meeting surfaces at any
later time we can as publicly
withdraw our support, saying
this is not at all what we
bargained for)<br>
<br>
So either people here agree to
the above, and we can write a
statement, or they dont... This
is the time to do the statement,
when people are still wondering
what kind of initiative it
really is, and with what
implications. Throw in our hat -
and well, kind of make this
thing somewhat trilateral from
its current bi-lateral status
(Brazil - ICANN tech community)
We may not succeed, but we must
try. .... In a few weeks, the
initiative would already be too
solidified in fact, or in
people's mind for civil society
support to have this kind of
impact....<br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On Friday 11 October 2013
05:56 AM, Ian Peter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Calibri'">
<div>I agree with Deborah
– lets wait till a bit
more information
emerges. We can draft a
letter which is more
meaningful when we have
a better idea of the
scope, objectives,
possible outcomes,
likely attendees, and
possible processes for
the conference. It’s
quite likely more
information will emerge
in the next week or so,
therefore I think we
should discuss at Bali
and before then try to
find out a little more.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ian Peter</div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-size:small;display:inline;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';font-weight:normal">
<div style="FONT:10pt
tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div
style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="deborah@accessnow.org"
href="mailto:deborah@accessnow.org"
target="_blank">Deborah
Brown</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, October
11, 2013 10:35 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="nnenna75@gmail.com"
href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com"
target="_blank">Nnenna
Nwakanma</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" title="bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [governance]
RE: [bestbits]
Rousseff &
Chehade: Brazil
will host world
event on Internet
governance in 2014</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div
style="font-style:normal;font-size:small;display:inline;text-decoration:none;font-family:'Calibri';font-weight:normal">
<div dir="ltr">Dear
all,
<div> </div>
<div>I see the
advantage of
engaging early on
this, but I'm a bit
concerned that we
are rushing
unnecessarily to
finalize a letter
before many of us
travel and are
otherwise
overstretched. I
wonder if it might
make more sense to
continue this
discussion online
and take advantage
of the in-person
meetings in Bali,
for those of us
attending, to
develop a CS agenda.
Also, as others have
pointed out, we know
so little about the
initiative at this
point.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The draft text
(available here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014"
target="_blank">http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014</a>)
does not seem to
capture the cautious
optimism that a
number of people
have expressed. I
also have concerns
about providing our
"strongest
endorsement" of the
Marco Civil process,
when that process is
not yet complete. Of
course the text of
the letter could
change dramatically
in just a few hours
;)<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I find Nnenna's
approach to be
sound, but it does
imply a follow on
communication with
more concrete
proposals. I wonder
if it might be more
effective to
streamline our
communication to the
Brazilian president
and head of ICANN. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>To sum up, I see
clear advantages to
both "striking while
the iron is hot" and
a more cautious
approach. But given
the factors I
mentioned above, I
would support taking
some extra time if
we need it. In any
case, I'm looking
forward to hearing
others' ideas and
continuing the
discussion around
this important
development. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best regards, <br>
Deborah </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at
3:41 PM, Nnenna
Nwakanma <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com" target="_blank">nnenna75@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:#ccc
1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear all<br>
<br>
<ol>
<li>I do
believe that
if any support
there is, from
the civil
society, it is
support for an
IDEA that
"appears" more
open and
inclusive that
the current
IGF </li>
<li>So I am
cautious about
writing a
letter that
may be in any
way understood
as "Civil
Society lauds
Dilma and
ICANN's push".
</li>
<li>A short
letter
informing that
global Civil
Society that
are working
on, concerned
about and/or
interested in
IG and
Internet
issues intend
to play key
roles in the
summit. </li>
<li>I believe
we should
communicate
key values we
plan to pursue
in the summit
</li>
<li>Underline
the central
idea of
multistakeholder
participation
</li>
<li>Say that
we are
beginnning
discussions
about the
diverse roles
that CS can
play and that
some time in
Bali will be
dedicated to
the issue
during the BB
meeting in
Bali.<br>
<br>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
If we recall,
workshop 127
in Bali will
be discussing
the MS
Selection
processes, and
I do hope,
personally
that we can
use that
opportunity to
sharpen the
focus. A
reminder of
the WS is on <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2013/workshop_2013_status_list_view.php?xpsltipq_je=127"
target="_blank">http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2013/workshop_2013_status_list_view.php?xpsltipq_je=127</a><br>
<br>
</div>
I am traveling
in unconnected
rural areas
but will be
back online
and I'm happy
to contribute
language if
any text
begins to
surface. In
case I do not,
here are my
ideas:<br>
</div>
<ol>
<li>Say what
exactly it is
the global CS
is supporting,
which is the
idea, and not
the
institutions </li>
<li>Make a
clear
statement on
our
willingness to
engage </li>
<li>Recall
that our
engagement is
based on the
Multistakeholder
principle </li>
<li>Inform
that
discussions
have started
and are
ongoing </li>
<li>Say we
will be coming
up with ore
concrete
engagement
proposals </li>
<li>Requesto
have
fundamental
info, if
available, to
help us scope
the idea
itself.</li>
</ol>
<p>Best</p>
<span><font
color="#888888">
<p> </p>
<p>Nnenna<br>
</p>
</font></span>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div
class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Oct 10,
2013 at 7:01
PM, Joana
Varon <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com"
target="_blank">joana@varonferraz.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204)
1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear
people, <br>
<br>
</div>
For the level
of information
I have (which
is basically:
Brazil and
ICANN have
proposed to
host a Summit
on Internet
after April -
coincidentally
or right after
the meeting on
Sharm el Sheik
and before the
presidential
elections
period), I
don't feel
comfortable
about writing
a letter
congratulating
for something
I dont really
know what it
is. <br>
<br>
</div>
But I do truly
support Anja's
suggestion to
start working
on our agenda
online and,
with a
potential to
be much
richer, during
our several
meetings in
Bali. (what do
we want from
all this
besides
participating
in the
Summit??) <br>
<br>
</div>
In the
meanwhile, I
rather take
breath to
understand and
discuss this
with the
Brazilian
government and
Brazilian
colleagues
from civil
society or
other sectors.
And see what
is the final
draft of Marco
Civil that the
government
will bring to
our table very
soon (if it
truly endorses
all the
principles she
has mentioned
at the UNGA).
<br>
<br>
</div>
I'm sorry if
it's a bit of
a skeptic or
over cautious
position, but
I really need
more inputs to
see the big
picture. <br>
<div> </div>
<div>All the
best<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
joana<br>
</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div
class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div
class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Oct 10,
2013 at 2:59
PM, michael
gurstein <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT:1ex;MARGIN:0px
0px 0px
0.8ex;BORDER-LEFT:rgb(204,204,204)
1px solid">+1<br>
<br>
M<br>
<div><br>
-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a><br>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>]
On Behalf Of
Carlos A.
Afonso<br>
Sent:
Thursday,
October 10,
2013 10:12 AM<br>
To: McTim<br>
Cc: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
michael
gurstein; Lee
W McKnight;
Rafik<br>
Dammak; Joana
Varon;
<,<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>>,;
NCSG List<br>
Subject: Re:
[governance]
RE: [bestbits]
Rousseff &
Chehade:
Brazil will<br>
host world
event on
Internet
governance in
2014<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Dear
compa McT,<br>
<br>
You being a
rigorous
techie, maybe
you will not
change your
logical
view...<br>
:) And I
understand
there is a lot
of people in
all sectors
who feel<br>
disturbed by
the emerging
presence of
Brazil and its
concrete
proposals to<br>
finally move
on.<br>
<br>
At the very
beginning Fadi
describes the
motivation --
Rousseff's
statement<br>
at the UN, her
clear
adherence to
the basic
principles
most of civil
society<br>
defends (which
she has
repeated
several times
in her radio
program and
her<br>
twitter
@dilmabr), and
her proposal
to build a
planetary
framework of<br>
rights. This
did not come
out of the
blue, from a
meeting of IP
addressers<br>
in a wonderful
city called
Montevideo. Do
you think Fadi
just dropped
by the<br>
presidential
door in
Brasilia,
knocked and
entered to
sell that
proposal? :)<br>
<br>
Anyway, it is
relevant to
understand
that this is
not a proposal
for yet<br>
another Icann
meeting, or a
reedition of
the UN
chatting space
called IGF,<br>
as both Dilma
and Fadi made
it very clear.
It is a major
achievement
that<br>
that
motivation
brought Icann
to colead this
effort jointly
with BR.<br>
<br>
All the more
so because, as
you know,
there are
strong sectors
within the<br>
government who
would love to
bring the
root-zone to
the purview of
the ITU,<br>
who hate
Icann, who do
not like the
pluriparticipative
model of
governance<br>
we defend, and
who are
basically
associated
with the
transnational
telecom<br>
oligopoly
which controls
the main
networks in
BR.<br>
Dilma is
courageously
up against a
huge wall
here, to
defend those<br>
principles,
and receiving
Fadi and
emerging from
the meeting
with thar<br>
proposal was a
major
political
milestone for
her in those
internal
disputes<br>
as well.<br>
<br>
[] fraterno<br>
<br>
--c.a.<br>
<br>
On 10/10/2013
10:14 AM,
McTim wrote:<br>
> At 55
seconds in,
Fadi says:<br>
> "Her
Excellency
President
Rousseff has
accepted our
invitation
that we<br>
> hold next
year a Global
Summit"<br>
><br>
> Seem
fairly clear
to me.<br>
><br>
> On Thu,
Oct 10, 2013
at 9:10 AM,
Carlos A.
Afonso <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ca@cafonso.ca" target="_blank">ca@cafonso.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
>> McT,
maybe you
should watch
the video a
few times
more... :)<br>
>><br>
>>
--c.a.<br>
>><br>
>> On
10/10/2013
09:57 AM,
McTim wrote:<br>
>>>
On Wed, Oct 9,
2013 at 11:50
PM, michael
gurstein <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
>>>>
Why so
pessimistic
and cynical
everyone.. I
may be wrong
but this<br>
>>>>
isn't just
about ICANN,
although hats
off to Fadi
for getting
this<br>
</div>
</div>
>>>>
going and
putting that
into play.<br>
<div>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>
I'm not
pessimistic or
cynical.<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>>
But I would be
extremely
surprised if
the Pres. of
Brazil is
going<br>
>>>>
to invite the
world to Rio
in April next
year to
discuss names
and<br>
>>>>
numbers.
Rather my
reading is
that she is
by-passing the
quite<br>
>>>>
evident
log-jam at the
ITU, the
frivolities of
the IGF, the
now<br>
>>>>
discredited
"Internet
Freedom"
crusade and
the status quo
which it<br>
</div>
>>>>
was intended
to cast into
concrete errr.
(non) rules
and regs.<br>
<div>
<div>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>>
It appears to
me, after
watching the
video again
several times
that<br>
>>>
it is ICANN
(and I assume
the rest of
the
Montevideoans)
that are<br>
>>>
spearheading
this. In
other words
the idea of
the Summit
comes from<br>
>>>
the T&A
folks, not
Brasilia.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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clear="all">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
-- <br>
<br>
Joana Varon
Ferraz<br>
@joana_varon<br>
PGP 0x016B8E73<br>
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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<div> </div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:13px"><font
face="garamond,
serif">Deborah
Brown</font></div>
<div
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face="garamond,
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Policy Analyst</font></div>
<div
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face="garamond,
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<a
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<div
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face="garamond,
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href="http://rightscon.org" target="_blank">rightscon.org</a></font></div>
<div
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</font></div>
<div
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face="garamond,
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<div
style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:13px"><font
face="garamond,
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0x5EB4727D</font></div>
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