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<font face="Verdana">Since as argued below, in our judgement, time
is strategically of essense, some of us would keep working on a
posible text over today and try to present something to IGC and BB
by the end of the day.... We do very much hope IGC and BB can sign
on it by consensus, but it doesnt happen we would open it to
organisations and people who want to sign it (sorry, this is a
practice I normally do not like so much, but I dont think it is ok
that we can produce a statement to critique a UN process is just
no time, with all kind of ambiguous languages, and on such an
important - potential game changer - initiative from a developing
country, a paralysis seems to be setting in)...<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 11 October 2013 11:02 AM,
parminder wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:52578D55.50605@itforchange.net" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Well let then that be as it has to be... "<span class="st">There
is <em>a tide</em> in the <em>affairs of men</em>. Which,
taken at the flood, leads on to fortune"... </span><br>
<br>
Leadership doesnt come searching for you, you have to seize it....
President Rousseff was made, what would have perhaps been,
somewhat a regular kind of offer. She seized it with both her
hands, even announced the like month etc.. That is what gave it
such a sudden high prominence, and people are celebrating
Rousseff, and somewhere, if it plays its cards well, Brazil have
now got an edge.... which it can use to further its interest...<br>
<br>
Civil society also is supposed to be representing some interests -
real interests of real people, who are most marginalised, and we
have to take our own responsibility seriously . We cannot be
eternally paralysed, which hurts these interests. If there are
real differences of views, well, that counts.... But a permanent
simple wait-and-watch attitude would do us no good...<br>
<br>
Lets analyse what we have here.... Or what risks we run and what
gains we can make... And others must also contribute what they
think are risks or advantages.... merely saying we are not sure
yet, tells talk more, do face to face and all,,,, Such stuff I
think, just my own view, is not the appropriate response. <br>
<br>
ICANN, either on its own or tech community's behalf tries to cosy
up to the Brazilians (perhaps in anticipation of the new proposal
for democratising global IG that Rousseff said Brazil will soon
present - BTW, the day of the annual discussion on WSIS and IG
issues in the UN GA is 22nd Oct, but whatever...) . It proposes a
real dialogue to see what needs to be changed about the global
governance of the Internet. Rousseff immediately seizes the
initiative, and even declares a possible timeline, just like that,
off-hand.... That is leadership material. That is all that has
happened, and that is all anyone knows has happened. There is
nothing hidden that civil society may suddenly become complicit to
if they support this proposal.<br>
<br>
In supporting it, we would only be saying - <br>
(1) yes, we agree that 'a real dialogue' on what needs to change
in global governance of the Internet should take place with some
urgency, <br>
(2) such a dialogue should take place in an open and not a hidden
manner, <br>
(3) it is certainly encouraging that the initiative comes from one
of the key developing nations - the main votaries of a 'real
change' - and ICANN or the technical community - seen as the main
symbol and defender of status quo,and that <br>
(4) we want civil society to be equally there in the middle of all
action, as the dialogue shapes and takes place...<br>
<br>
Nothing more and nothing less. (If anything sinister about the
proposed meeting surfaces at any later time we can as publicly
withdraw our support, saying this is not at all what we bargained
for)<br>
<br>
So either people here agree to the above, and we can write a
statement, or they dont... This is the time to do the statement,
when people are still wondering what kind of initiative it really
is, and with what implications. Throw in our hat - and well, kind
of make this thing somewhat trilateral from its current bi-lateral
status (Brazil - ICANN tech community) We may not succeed, but we
must try. .... In a few weeks, the initiative would already be too
solidified in fact, or in people's mind for civil society support
to have this kind of impact....<br>
<br>
Parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 11 October 2013 05:56 AM,
Ian Peter wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:D38829A8FDF64A728DB7518412B47A7C@Toshiba"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR:
#000000">
<div>I agree with Deborah – lets wait till a bit more
information emerges. We can draft a letter which is more
meaningful when we have a better idea of the scope,
objectives, possible outcomes, likely attendees, and
possible processes for the conference. It’s quite likely
more information will emerge in the next week or so,
therefore I think we should discuss at Bali and before
then try to find out a little more.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ian Peter</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri';
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal;
TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<div style="font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="deborah@accessnow.org"
href="mailto:deborah@accessnow.org">Deborah Brown</a>
</div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 11, 2013 10:35 AM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="nnenna75@gmail.com"
href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com">Nnenna Nwakanma</a>
</div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net">mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>
</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [governance] RE: [bestbits]
Rousseff & Chehade: Brazil will host world event
on Internet governance in 2014</div>
</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri';
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal;
TEXT-DECORATION: none; DISPLAY: inline">
<div dir="ltr">Dear all,
<div> </div>
<div>I see the advantage of engaging early on this, but
I'm a bit concerned that we are rushing unnecessarily
to finalize a letter before many of us travel and are
otherwise overstretched. I wonder if it might make
more sense to continue this discussion online and take
advantage of the in-person meetings in Bali, for those
of us attending, to develop a CS agenda. Also, as
others have pointed out, we know so little about the
initiative at this point.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The draft text (available here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014"
target="_blank">http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/Brazil2014</a>)
does not seem to capture the cautious optimism that a
number of people have expressed. I also have concerns
about providing our "strongest endorsement" of the
Marco Civil process, when that process is not yet
complete. Of course the text of the letter could
change dramatically in just a few hours ;)<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I find Nnenna's approach to be sound, but it does
imply a follow on communication with more concrete
proposals. I wonder if it might be more effective to
streamline our communication to the Brazilian
president and head of ICANN. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>To sum up, I see clear advantages to both "striking
while the iron is hot" and a more cautious approach.
But given the factors I mentioned above, I would
support taking some extra time if we need it. In any
case, I'm looking forward to hearing others' ideas and
continuing the discussion around this important
development. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Best regards, <br>
Deborah </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 3:41
PM, Nnenna Nwakanma <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com" target="_blank">nnenna75@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT:
1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc
1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear all<br>
<br>
<ol>
<li>I do believe that if any support there
is, from the civil society, it is
support for an IDEA that "appears" more
open and inclusive that the current IGF
</li>
<li>So I am cautious about writing a
letter that may be in any way understood
as "Civil Society lauds Dilma and
ICANN's push". </li>
<li>A short letter informing that global
Civil Society that are working on,
concerned about and/or interested in IG
and Internet issues intend to play key
roles in the summit. </li>
<li>I believe we should communicate key
values we plan to pursue in the summit </li>
<li>Underline the central idea of
multistakeholder participation </li>
<li>Say that we are beginnning discussions
about the diverse roles that CS can play
and that some time in Bali will be
dedicated to the issue during the BB
meeting in Bali.<br>
<br>
</li>
</ol>
</div>
If we recall, workshop 127 in Bali will be
discussing the MS Selection processes, and I
do hope, personally that we can use that
opportunity to sharpen the focus. A reminder
of the WS is on <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2013/workshop_2013_status_list_view.php?xpsltipq_je=127"
target="_blank">http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/wks2013/workshop_2013_status_list_view.php?xpsltipq_je=127</a><br>
<br>
</div>
I am traveling in unconnected rural areas but
will be back online and I'm happy to contribute
language if any text begins to surface. In case
I do not, here are my ideas:<br>
</div>
<ol>
<li>Say what exactly it is the global CS is
supporting, which is the idea, and not the
institutions </li>
<li>Make a clear statement on our willingness to
engage </li>
<li>Recall that our engagement is based on the
Multistakeholder principle </li>
<li>Inform that discussions have started and are
ongoing </li>
<li>Say we will be coming up with ore concrete
engagement proposals </li>
<li>Requesto have fundamental info, if
available, to help us scope the idea itself.</li>
</ol>
<p>Best</p>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p> </p>
<p>Nnenna<br>
</p>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 10,
2013 at 7:01 PM, Joana Varon <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:joana@varonferraz.com"
target="_blank">joana@varonferraz.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN:
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Dear people, <br>
<br>
</div>
For the level of information
I have (which is basically:
Brazil and ICANN have
proposed to host a Summit on
Internet after April -
coincidentally or right
after the meeting on Sharm
el Sheik and before the
presidential elections
period), I don't feel
comfortable about writing a
letter congratulating for
something I dont really know
what it is. <br>
<br>
</div>
But I do truly support Anja's
suggestion to start working on
our agenda online and, with a
potential to be much richer,
during our several meetings in
Bali. (what do we want from
all this besides participating
in the Summit??) <br>
<br>
</div>
In the meanwhile, I rather take
breath to understand and discuss
this with the Brazilian
government and Brazilian
colleagues from civil society or
other sectors. And see what is
the final draft of Marco Civil
that the government will bring
to our table very soon (if it
truly endorses all the
principles she has mentioned at
the UNGA). <br>
<br>
</div>
I'm sorry if it's a bit of a
skeptic or over cautious position,
but I really need more inputs to
see the big picture. <br>
<div> </div>
<div>All the best<span><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
joana<br>
</font></span></div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 2:59
PM, michael gurstein <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com"
target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex;
MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;
BORDER-LEFT:
rgb(204,204,204) 1px
solid">+1<br>
<br>
M<br>
<div><br>
-----Original
Message-----<br>
From: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a><br>
[mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>]
On Behalf Of Carlos A.
Afonso<br>
Sent: Thursday, October
10, 2013 10:12 AM<br>
To: McTim<br>
Cc: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:governance@lists.igcaucus.org" target="_blank">governance@lists.igcaucus.org</a>;
michael gurstein; Lee W
McKnight; Rafik<br>
Dammak; Joana Varon;
<,<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>>,;
NCSG List<br>
Subject: Re:
[governance] RE:
[bestbits] Rousseff
& Chehade: Brazil
will<br>
host world event on
Internet governance in
2014<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Dear compa McT,<br>
<br>
You being a rigorous
techie, maybe you will
not change your
logical view...<br>
:) And I understand
there is a lot of
people in all sectors
who feel<br>
disturbed by the
emerging presence of
Brazil and its
concrete proposals to<br>
finally move on.<br>
<br>
At the very beginning
Fadi describes the
motivation --
Rousseff's statement<br>
at the UN, her clear
adherence to the basic
principles most of
civil society<br>
defends (which she has
repeated several times
in her radio program
and her<br>
twitter @dilmabr), and
her proposal to build
a planetary framework
of<br>
rights. This did not
come out of the blue,
from a meeting of IP
addressers<br>
in a wonderful city
called Montevideo. Do
you think Fadi just
dropped by the<br>
presidential door in
Brasilia, knocked and
entered to sell that
proposal? :)<br>
<br>
Anyway, it is relevant
to understand that
this is not a proposal
for yet<br>
another Icann meeting,
or a reedition of the
UN chatting space
called IGF,<br>
as both Dilma and Fadi
made it very clear. It
is a major achievement
that<br>
that motivation
brought Icann to
colead this effort
jointly with BR.<br>
<br>
All the more so
because, as you know,
there are strong
sectors within the<br>
government who would
love to bring the
root-zone to the
purview of the ITU,<br>
who hate Icann, who do
not like the
pluriparticipative
model of governance<br>
we defend, and who are
basically associated
with the transnational
telecom<br>
oligopoly which
controls the main
networks in BR.<br>
Dilma is courageously
up against a huge wall
here, to defend those<br>
principles, and
receiving Fadi and
emerging from the
meeting with thar<br>
proposal was a major
political milestone
for her in those
internal disputes<br>
as well.<br>
<br>
[] fraterno<br>
<br>
--c.a.<br>
<br>
On 10/10/2013 10:14
AM, McTim wrote:<br>
> At 55 seconds in,
Fadi says:<br>
> "Her Excellency
President Rousseff has
accepted our
invitation that we<br>
> hold next year a
Global Summit"<br>
><br>
> Seem fairly clear
to me.<br>
><br>
> On Thu, Oct 10,
2013 at 9:10 AM,
Carlos A. Afonso <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:ca@cafonso.ca" target="_blank">ca@cafonso.ca</a>>
wrote:<br>
>> McT, maybe
you should watch the
video a few times
more... :)<br>
>><br>
>> --c.a.<br>
>><br>
>> On 10/10/2013
09:57 AM, McTim wrote:<br>
>>> On Wed,
Oct 9, 2013 at 11:50
PM, michael gurstein
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
>>>> Why
so pessimistic and
cynical everyone.. I
may be wrong but this<br>
>>>> isn't
just about ICANN,
although hats off to
Fadi for getting this<br>
</div>
</div>
>>>> going and
putting that into play.<br>
<div>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm not
pessimistic or cynical.<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> But I
would be extremely
surprised if the Pres.
of Brazil is going<br>
>>>> to
invite the world to Rio
in April next year to
discuss names and<br>
>>>>
numbers. Rather my
reading is that she is
by-passing the quite<br>
>>>> evident
log-jam at the ITU, the
frivolities of the IGF,
the now<br>
>>>>
discredited "Internet
Freedom" crusade and the
status quo which it<br>
</div>
>>>> was
intended to cast into
concrete errr. (non) rules
and regs.<br>
<div>
<div>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> It
appears to me, after
watching the video
again several times
that<br>
>>> it is
ICANN (and I assume
the rest of the
Montevideoans) that
are<br>
>>>
spearheading this. In
other words the idea
of the Summit comes
from<br>
>>> the
T&A folks, not
Brasilia.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
</div>
</div>
<div>-- <br>
-- <br>
<br>
Joana Varon Ferraz<br>
@joana_varon<br>
PGP 0x016B8E73<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div> </div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(136,136,136);
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><font
face="garamond, serif">Deborah Brown</font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(136,136,136);
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><font
face="garamond, serif">Senior Policy Analyst</font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(136,136,136);
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><font
face="garamond, serif">Access | <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://accessnow.org" target="_blank">accessnow.org</a></font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(136,136,136);
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><font
face="garamond, serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://rightscon.org" target="_blank">rightscon.org</a></font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(136,136,136);
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><font
face="garamond, serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(136,136,136);
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><font
face="garamond, serif">@deblebrown</font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 13px; COLOR: rgb(136,136,136);
BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)"><font
face="garamond, serif">PGP 0x5EB4727D</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
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