<div dir="ltr">I have no idea why....maybe in that it's not government and private sector? </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/9/25 michael gurstein <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Interesting that they/you have included ISOC as "civil society"… Could you explain why?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">M<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Byoung-il Oh<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 24, 2013 2:46 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits] Seoul Conference on Cyberspace 2013<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks Anja Kovacs, <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I checked it to the secretariat. As Anja said, at least 3 people from civil society would be invited, Anja Kovacs, someone from CDT and ISOC. <u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The speaker list of the homepage has not been updated yet. They will update it as soon as they got the personal information from speakers. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I'm sorry for causing misunderstanding about CS panels. <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best, <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Oh byoungil <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">2013/9/24 Anja Kovacs <<a href="mailto:anja@internetdemocracy.in" target="_blank">anja@internetdemocracy.in</a>><u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Dear all,<u></u><u></u></p><p>I'm unfortunately not able to respond at length right now, but thought I should at least mention that I've been invited as a speaker (and accepted), and I know at least three other people from CS will be attending as well. I don't have any info on other CS speakers.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Best,<br>Anja<u></u><u></u></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sep 24, 2013 12:16 PM, "Shahzad Ahmad" <<a href="mailto:shahzad@bytesforall.pk" target="_blank">shahzad@bytesforall.pk</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Dear Parminder,<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">At least Budapest conference was not that closed. I know there was an effort to bring range of stakeholders (including CSOs) to that event and in some instances even funded by the Hungarian Government. Though, we could not attend being committed elsewhere but we had at least two sessions with the embassy to inform them of local issues. Some of the diplomats also went to Budapest to attend. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">We believe that undermining CSOs strengths and efforts (even among ourselves) wont't help the cause at all. We believe IGF is important so are many other spread out forums. Not necessarily all of us would have the capacity and time to engage with each one of them but we appreciate the efforts by all the colleagues especially CSOs and academia to keep the struggle up. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">So can we all please pay some urgent attention to the appeal by Byoungil? Byoungil, please count us in for any response based on your observations that you plan to put forward on the openness, access and objectives of this conference. It is all the more important to engage with this given its importance.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Best wishes and regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Shahzad<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">parminder <<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:51 AM<br><b>To: </b>"<,<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net>" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net></a>," <<a href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net" target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [bestbits] Seoul Conference on Cyberspace 2013<u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Hi Byoungil<br><br>I may be wrong but I have a somewhat different perspective on this Conference on Cyberspace...<br>
<br>This Seoul conference is one of a series that started with London Cyber conference and then went to Budapest, now coming to Seoul....<br><br>One, it is not inclusive (multistakeholder etc) not at all because of any China/ Russia factor, but because that is how it always has been. That is how it was designed, and I can assure you that China and Russia were not among the chief designers. <br>
<br>Secondly, it is not an unimportant conference or site of global IG; it is a very important one.<br><br>This is how it is.... OECD, UN Security Council and such spaces are where big boys play and decide things; IGF et all are for the show, a largely managed show for kids, for all those who would otherwise make noises - yes, you got it, a large pat of it, civil society.....<br>
<br>Now, having developed the basic frameworks/ principles. this series of cyber conferences is where part co-optation is sought from the outside - from some more powerful countries outside the 'inner club' , may be one or two very power non-gov actor too.... But still a strictly controlled space (as you found out) , of selective co-optation. In these spaces, the wannabes, euphemistically called emerging economies, are allowed a peek in, only if they behave they could be included into bilateral and pluri-lateral arrangements. Here, the policy frameworks and principles developed in deep secret closed spaces are sought to be aired a bit, with an attempt to expand their legitimacy. (You will find out as you see the conference outcome documents.) <br>
<br>Of course, there is no business here of the pesky civil society kinds . They are too powerless, and perhaps naive, to even be offered an co-optation.... They have their agreed play space at the IGF where, in less than 2 weeks after this key global IG meeting, multistakeholderism will again be celebrated by the same parties holding this conference as strictly for 'adults only'. <br>
<br>Do excuse my ironic tone, but I have been earlier trying to say in plain words that we should focus on real sites of global IG, at least as much as we do on our few favourite ones. Incidentally, these latter sites seem to be also the ones that the most dominant global IG powers would want civil society to be stay bogged down with.<br>
<br>parminder <br><br></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u><u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">On Monday 23 September 2013 09:00 PM, Byoung-il Oh wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Hi, <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">As you may know, Seoul Conference on Cyberspace 2013 will be held in Seoul on Oct. 17-18. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.seoulcyber2013.kr/en/main/main.do" target="_blank">http://www.seoulcyber2013.kr/en/main/main.do</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Last May, I had met the chief officer of Preparatory Secretariat of the conference to inquire to him the progress of the conference. At that time, the detailed agenda and panelists had not been fixed yet. In the meeting, I inquired what would the output of the conference and how civil society could participate in the process. The answer was that they expected to produce chair's summary plus as the output, but needed more discussion on what could be the 'plus'. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">As a preparatory process, they told several pre-workshop would be held. <a href="http://www.seoulcyber2013.kr/en/event/workshop.html" target="_blank">http://www.seoulcyber2013.kr/en/event/workshop.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">However, they didn't give definite answer to the question of how the result of pre-workshop would be linked to the output of the conference, how civil society could participate in the process and give opinions to draft the output. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">After the meeting, I felt that this conference would not be for making concrete policy through substantial discussions of multi-stakeholders, but just cosmetic diplomatic events. Actually, the Preparatory Secretariat is operated under the Ministry of Foreign Affiars, not Telecommunication authority. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">In the meeting, the chief officer told that he himself thought much of the value of open and multi-stakeholder process, but they had to consider the position of the countries (China, Russia etc) which don't like multistakeholderism. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">After that, we, the coaliton of civil society in Korea, invited a staff of Preparatory Secretariat as a panel in our public forum last June, but we couldn't hear nothing new from him. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Recently, I checked its homepage and found with surprise that anyone from civil society could not invited as a panel. <a href="http://www.seoulcyber2013.kr/en/program/speakers_1.html" target="_blank">http://www.seoulcyber2013.kr/en/program/speakers_1.html</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Moreover, I found that they even restricted the participation of the public. It was a closed conference! When I tried to register in the conference, I had to request PIN first in the <a href="http://register.seoulcyber2013.kr/" target="_blank">http://register.seoulcyber2013.kr/</a>, but I couldn't receive a PIN. So I called to the secretariat and ask why. They said that PIN would be given to the invited person. In the case of who were not invited, preparatory secretariat will examine the person who requested to particiapte and dicide whether to allow participation or not. I have no idea this was the conventional practice in the former cyberspace conference. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">And, I wonder how do you think about cyberspace conference, the importance of the conference in the context of global internet governance. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Best Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Oh Byoungil <u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><u></u> <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><u></u></font></span></span></p>
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