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    <br>
    Anja/ All<br>
    <br>
    On Thursday 25 July 2013 04:59 PM, Anja Kovacs wrote:<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHBcr=S-bPYGCbiaKbmfmK7MOspmeeBwaVOEn2SiSMCHtQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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          <div>Just to clarify my position vis-a-vis Parminder's
            comments:<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          In theory I do think that a strong global framework on privacy
          protections could contribute to resolving these issues in a
          significant manner. Unfortunately, in practice I am not sure
          how feasible this is at present. As they are necessarily based
          on compromise, global agreements tend to congeal around the
          lowest common denominators. At the moment, I am afraid these
          will set the bar too low, not in the least because many of the
          democracies that one would hope would push for higher
          standards at the moment seem to be setting the bar too low
          domestically, including where privacy is concerned. This is
          true not only of the US but also of, for example, India. In
          these circumstances, I am worried that a global agreement will
          be used first and foremost to cement sovereignty over the
          Internet, rather than to defend the rights of Internet users
          around the world, something I would not consider a gain. My
          reformulation of Anriette's formulation was simply meant to
          foreground that what we are asking for is the implementation
          of existing human rights, not to stop us from creating a
          debate on this issue. I continue to think, however, that the
          best way countries can flag that the time is genuinely ripe
          for a global framework is by demonstrating a clear commitment
          to human rights in these areas domestically. It is countries
          that would like to see global coordination on a wide range of
          issues beyond privacy that might in fact have the greatest
          stake in doing so.<br>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    It is not that just 'countries' (by which I understand you mean
    'governments') want 'global coordination of a wide range of issues'
    - I want it, people like me and groups like us want it - for very
    legitimate public interest purposes. So, it cannot be made
    conditional on governments first exhibiting a high standard of
    behaviour. <br>
    <br>
    Also, based on what standard of behaviour of the US government are
    we petitioning it to review its legal framework, and not afraid that
    in the process it just may make it more water-tight for its statist
    objectives? Correspondingly, what different standards exist for UN
    members that they should not be similarly petitioned to bring in
    normative/legal framework that could have an influence on all
    countries.<br>
    <br>
    We all know that there are a lot of crooks in the Indian parliament,
    so can we therefore proposition that politicians should have a
    particular demonstrated standard of behaviour before we will accept
    the legitimacy of our parliaments. This is simply to let the
    dominant powers rule the roost... We know a lot of forces/ people in
    India who use such arguments in terms of our domestic politics,
    which to me are simply anti-politics and anti-democratic. <br>
    <br>
    The right to information legislation in India is a good example. It
    is so so very damaging to the politicians and the bureaucrats - but
    is it not the parliament that passed it... I just think we need to
    believe more in politics and democracy - not just in theory, but in
    practice...<br>
    <br>
    Your blanket claim "As they are necessarily based on compromise,
    global agreements tend to congeal around the lowest common
    denominators" can be held against any representational democratic
    system.... I think you must see all the global agreements that are
    rather 'high' in terms to the values they uphold starting from the
    human rights documents, and if you are inclined towards more
    'enforcing kind' of stuff, documents about the International Court
    of Justice....<br>
    <br>
    This said, I do realise that in matters that are of special core
    interest to the state, like security and surveillance, one has to be
    extra cautious .... But, now getting to a practical level,  power
    has to be confronted with power..... US wont change its ways because
    of a civil society petition, we will need to assemble global
    pressure over it, and similarly over other countries regarding their
    respective wrong doings... For this we need legitimate global
    governance systems, and to the extent possible enforcement
    capabilities... I am not ready to support moves that, directly or
    indirectly, cement, US's extra-ordinarily pre-eminent role in the
    Internet space and the Internet-mediated social structures. To
    evidently show belief and trust in the US government system and not
    at all in the UN system to me does precisely that....<br>
    <br>
    parminder <br>
    <br>
    .<br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAJqNAHBcr=S-bPYGCbiaKbmfmK7MOspmeeBwaVOEn2SiSMCHtQ@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
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          <br>
        </div>
        <div>My 2 cents.<br>
          <br>
          Best,<br>
          Anja <br>
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">On 25 July 2013 07:20, michael gurstein
          <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com" target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>></span>
          wrote:<br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
                    agree with Parminder that the letter lacks a forward
                    looking element which would deal with the most
                    fundamental issue--the development of an integrated
                    (if to a very limited degree multi-polar) ubiquitous
                    multi-stakeholder--States+private sector+technical
                    community(?)) surveillance State. This is  global in
                    nature and will require some sort of global response
                    and working through this in anticipation of the IGF
                    should be I think, our major current task.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">However,
                    I think the letter goes a very considerable degree
                    beyond earlier such position statements from major
                    (particularly US) CS actors in recognizing the
                    legitimate concerns/significance of "foreigners" in
                    the current US discussion and on that basis I think
                    it should be supported as amended.</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">M</span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
                <div>
                  <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
                    1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"
                          target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>
                        [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"
                          target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>]
                        <b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
                        <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 24, 2013 10:45 PM<br>
                        <b>Cc:</b> &lt,<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
                          target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>&gt,</span></p>
                    <div class="im"><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits] Re: Call for
                      comment: civil society letter to PCLOB re: human
                      rights impacts of NSA surveillance of 'non-US
                      persons'</div>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal">On Wednesday 24 July 2013 08:23
                    PM, Anja Kovacs wrote:</p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <div class="h5">
                    <blockquote
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                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal">I also liked
                                Anriette's language on the "development
                                of a global framework for protection",
                                though I would suggest we slightly edit
                                it to read "the development of a global
                                framework for the implementation of
                                protections" or something along those
                                lines. The reason is that we already
                                have a framework for protections, ie the
                                human rights framework, but that
                                governments seem to be happy to
                                disregard this when it comes to
                                surveillance.  </p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                      But so does the US have in place all kinds of
                      higher level principles that do cover such issues;
                      then why does the letter ask for new legal
                      frameworks from the US government? As the current
                      frameworks in the US have been found inadequate,
                      so could it be held true for the global human
                      rights regime (arguably truer for the latter) -
                      because it is an undeniable fact - although often
                      selectively denied - that the digital space
                      produces entirely new realities, which are also
                      unprecedentedly global in nature.... More on US
                      versus UN frameworks below...<br>
                      <br>
                    </p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal">Until governments
                            worldwide give considerably greater evidence
                            of their willingness to make the protection
                            of human rights an integral component of
                            their surveillance plans, I do not think
                            that it is appropriate for civil society to
                            push for a more comprehensive global
                            framework on security issues in general. </p>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                      'Global framework on security? Whoever asked for
                      one..... Are we asking the US government for new a
                      framework on security, I thought we were asking
                      for a new framework on privacy protection.... so
                      also for the UN. Global framework for privacy
                      protection, not for security. <br>
                      <br>
                      So, pardon my use of ironic language to make my
                      point, apparently we can ask the US to develop new
                      legal frameworks, and trust that they would not
                      come up with something worse then they have at
                      present. However, we cannot at all trust the UN to
                      not come up with legal frameworks worse than what
                      we have at present, and therefore we should not
                      ever even ask them for the same thing that we are
                      ready to ask of the US. <br>
                      <br>
                      To me, it boils down to trusting the US government
                      to run the world more than we can trust the UN...
                      This is something I am unwilling to do. If even
                      Snowden did not teach us the right lesson, perhaps
                      nothing ever would. I am afraid that all this is
                      of a piece with a widespread tendency to trust US
                      more than the UN with the trusteeship of the
                      global Internet. I obviously cannot accept that.
                      As I said in my first posting, it is a well
                      written and argued letter, but the problem with it
                      is not what it says, but with what it does not. <br>
                      <br>
                      I am not against focussing a letter on a
                      particular opportunity and end. However,  (1)
                      PCLOB is not the wrong agency to advice the US
                      government to consider global legal frameworks on
                      privacy protection, especially now when Snowden
                      disclosures tell us what other countries could
                      also be doing, including to the US citizens, (2) I
                      did want to have a discussion here on whether the
                      group considers global frameworks as also a needed
                      remedy for the problem in focus. I am unable to
                      see how adding a line or two on global frameworks
                      would throw the letter out of focus.....<br>
                      <br>
                      parminder <br>
                      <br>
                      <br>
                    </p>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                          style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On the issue of
                          what constitutes a "Best Bits statement", the
                          points made here are important and we do
                          indeed need greater clarity on this. At the
                          same time, it's also important to keep in mind
                          that once statements are shared with the wider
                          world, maintaining a distinction between a
                          statement supported by all (though even on the
                          Baku one I think we had one abstention by the
                          way, and in any case the Baku group was fairly
                          small) and a statement shared and promoted
                          through the Best Bits platform might be
                          difficult - even if we are careful to make
                          these distinctions, the wider world might not.
                          <br>
                          <br>
                          Perhaps we should therefore simply go for a
                          model in which ALL statements are considered
                          to be in the latter category, and focus our
                          attention on coming up with criteria for which
                          type of statements are appropriate (or not)
                          for Best Bits instead? I am worried that
                          sending out mixed messages will only undermine
                          the effectiveness of the advocacy efforts that
                          go through Best Bits, though I'd of course be
                          very happy to hear other possible solutions to
                          that conundrum as well.</p>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal">Thanks and best,<br>
                        Anja</p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">On 24 July 2013 20:00,
                          Katitza Rodriguez <<a
                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:katitza@eff.org"
                            target="_blank">katitza@eff.org</a>>
                          wrote:</p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Dear all,<br>
                          <br>
                          It would be good to answer the consultation
                          without voicing support for<br>
                          a PCLOB investigation. In EFF, we are of the
                          opinion that the PCLOB<br>
                          isn't the right place for an investigation.<br>
                          <br>
                          PCLOB is weak institution, so EFF concern is
                          that its weaknesses foster<br>
                          low, expectation politics/rhetoric.  EFF want
                          a Church Committee,<br>
                          investigation or at least an existing
                          committee with congress or at<br>
                          least an existing committee with congressional
                          subpoena power to<br>
                          investigate.<br>
                          <br>
                          We have three or four blog posts with
                          arguments about why we need<br>
                          a special investigatory committee, and at the
                          very least extant<br>
                          committees, instead of the PCLOB to
                          investigate.<br>
                          <br>
                          For more information on our asks please check
                          out:<br>
                          <br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/why-special-congressional-committee-must-be-created-investigate-nsas"
                            target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/why-special-congressional-committee-must-be-created-investigate-nsas</a><br>
                          <br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/response-nsa-we-need-new-church-commission-and-we-need-it-now"
                            target="_blank">https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/response-nsa-we-need-new-church-commission-and-we-need-it-now</a></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                            <br>
                            On 7/24/13 7:24 AM, Anriette Esterhuysen
                            wrote:<br>
                            > Dear all<br>
                            ><br>
                            > My view on the letter is to keep it
                            focused on the Call for Comment by<br>
                            > the US Privacy and Civil Liberties
                            Oversight Board regarding the US<br>
                            > government's surveillance programs
                            under the PATRIOT Act and FISA.  I<br>
                            > think the letter is already too long.<br>
                            ><br>
                            > The more focused and to the point (and
                            brief) our comments are, the more<br>
                            > likely they will be discussed,
                            forwarded, understood, etc. etc..<br>
                            > However, I do have a proposal for how
                            to include a reference global<br>
                            > legal frameworks that does not change
                            the basic character and purpose of<br>
                            > the letter as one that addresses an
                            official US body.<br>
                            ><br>
                            > This letter makes three key points:<br>
                            ><br>
                            > * Government surveillance must be
                            subject to a strong legal framework<br>
                            > that is transparent, necessary to
                            achieve a legitimate goal and<br>
                            > proportionate to that goal, authorized
                            by a competent judicial<br>
                            > authority, and subject to public
                            oversight.<br>
                            ><br>
                            ><br>
                            > *Surveillance of communications
                            conducted under Section 702 must meets<br>
                            > international human rights standards
                            for surveillance.<br>
                            ><br>
                            ><br>
                            > * In the context of online
                            communications, the privacy and liberty</p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">> rights of non-U.S.
                          persons outside the U.S. should bewithin the
                          PCLOB's</p>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">> statutory mandate.<br>
                              ><br>
                              > We could add something along the
                              following lines:<br>
                              ><br>
                              > We believe findings and
                              recommendations developed by the PCLOB
                              that<br>
                              > ensure that protection of rights of
                              US and non US persons in the context<br>
                              > of government surveillance would not
                              only be consistent with the US<br>
                              > government's frequently stated
                              commitment to 'freedom online'; it would<br>
                              > also constitute a valuable
                              contribution to the eventual development
                              of a<br>
                              > global framework for such
                              protections.<br>
                              ><br>
                              > Btw, this last sentence (quoted
                              below) still uses the term 'Americans'.<br>
                              > Please change. I also think that it
                              is best to say 'findings and<br>
                              > recommendations' rather than
                              'recommendations and findings' as the<br>
                              > former is likely to flow from the
                              latter.<br>
                              ><br>
                              > "We urge you to make recommendations
                              and findings designed to protect<br>
                              > the human rights not only of
                              Americans, but also of non-U.S. persons
                              who<br>
                              > live outside the United States."<br>
                              ><br>
                              > Ciao<br>
                              ><br>
                              > Anriette<br>
                              ><br>
                              > On 24/07/2013 09:27, parminder wrote:<br>
                              >><br>
                              >> Thanks to Gene and Jeremy for
                              their responses..<br>
                              >><br>
                              >> However, I see no argument here
                              why the letter cannot ask US to also<br>
                              >> engage in developing global norms
                              and agreements with regard to<br>
                              >> safeguards against invasion of
                              privacy in name of security, and then<br>
                              >> adhering to these norms/
                              agreements. After all, US is a prime party
                              to<br>
                              >> be appealed to if we are to move
                              towards such global norms/<br>
                              >> agreements, and it remains my
                              firm belief that this thing can really<br>
                              >> be addressed only through global
                              arrangements,<br>
                              >><br>
                              >> (Also, shouldnt US groups and US
                              citizens also be concerned about<br>
                              >> invasion of their privacy by non
                              US government agents.:<br>
                              >><br>
                              >> About Jeremy's arugment against
                              seeking 'global legal frameworks'<br>
                              >> being that we ourselves are yet
                              to propose anything concrete, does the<br>
                              >> proposed letter not ask the US
                              government to develop new 'strong legal<br>
                              >> frameworks' without actually
                              suggesting their precise forms.. Why cant<br>
                              >> we do the same for the global
                              level even when we yet dont have our<br>
                              >> concrete institutional proposals
                              ready (would we ever be :) )... At<br>
                              >> the domestic level of US gov, the
                              letter simply asserts the need, at<br>
                              >> the principles level, of privacy
                              protection through 'strong legal<br>
                              >> framework'. We can ask the same
                              for the global system, at the level of<br>
                              >> principles.... Unless of course
                              there is a difference of opinion here<br>
                              >> about the principle of a global
                              framework itself, in which case it is<br>
                              >> precisely my point to discus it
                              openly...<br>
                              >><br>
                              >> parminder<br>
                              >><br>
                              >><br>
                              >><br>
                              >> On Wednesday 24 July 2013 07:34
                              AM, Gene Kimmelman wrote:<br>
                              >>> I think Parminder raises some
                              very important points.  I'd like to<br>
                              >>> offer a quick observation and
                              await other input:<br>
                              >>><br>
                              >>> 1.  The question about how to
                              refer to previous statements generated<br>
                              >>> through some subgroup of
                              BestBits is very legitimate; we may need a<br>
                              >>> more precise description of
                              the letter referred to and who the<br>
                              >>> signatories were.  We still
                              need to discuss at the next BestBits<br>
                              >>> gathering what our rules of
                              engagement and governance should be.<br>
                              >>><br>
                              >>> 2.  I fully support the idea
                              of initiating a discussion of what type<br>
                              >>> of global legal framework (or
                              maybe normative framework) we should be<br>
                              >>> galvanizing around.  Maybe
                              even a simple call for the UN to engage a<br>
                              >>>  discussion with all
                              stakeholders fully represented, to
                              consider how<br>
                              >>> best to enforce human rights
                              charters and principles, would be a path<br>
                              >>> forward?  Maybe others have a
                              better suggestion, but I wouldn't want<br>
                              >>> the "perfect" to stand in the
                              way of the "good enough" for the<br>
                              >>> purpose of registering broad
                              CSO interest in a global discussion and<br>
                              >>> global policy engagement.<br>
                              >>><br>
                              >>> 3.  Whether or not we can all
                              agree on something related to the<br>
                              >>> global legal framework, I
                              also urge everyone to be pragmatic about<br>
                              >>> the opportunity to register
                              your views with the US-base PCLOB.  This<br>
                              >>> is of course only one small
                              piece of the legal struggle, but it is<br>
                              >>> very important from a US NGO
                              standpoint to expand the US debate<br>
                              >>> beyond US citizens or
                              residents.  The US needs global input to
                              wake<br>
                              >>> it up to its broader
                              obligations.  This may  not be enough to
                              change<br>
                              >>> policy, but it is a critical
                              enhancement to the US-based NGO advocacy<br>
                              >>> that could have some impact
                              on the US government.  So even if this is<br>
                              >>> a flawed, partial solution,
                              and should be connected to something<br>
                              >>> related to broader global
                              solution, I believe it could influence US<br>
                              >>> policymakers.<br>
                              >>> On Jul 23, 2013, at 9:44 PM,
                              parminder <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
                                target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a><br>
                              >>> <mailto:<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
                                target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>>
                              wrote:<br>
                              >>><br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>>> Generally a well written
                              statement. However, it must be judged not<br>
                              >>>> only for what it says but
                              also what it does not... The statement<br>
                              >>>> appeals to a US
                              government agency to protect human rights
                              of all<br>
                              >>>> citizens of the world,
                              especially non US citizens, which is very<br>
                              >>>> well. It call for all
                              security measures that the US  " must be<br>
                              >>>> subject to a strong legal
                              framework" meaning here just a US legal<br>
                              >>>> framework.... I am not
                              convinced that this constitutes an
                              adequate<br>
                              >>>> remedy. All security
                              measures should be subject to a strong
                              global<br>
                              >>>> or international treaty/
                              legal framework as well.. That alone will<br>
                              >>>> work in an environment
                              where we are all continually immersed in a<br>
                              >>>> (somewhat) globally
                              seamless, or at least hyper-connected,
                              digital<br>
                              >>>> space.<br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>>> So, my specific question
                              is, what stops us, as a global civil<br>
                              >>>> society group, from
                              calling for a global/international legal<br>
                              >>>> framework to ensuring
                              that all security related (and other)
                              actions,<br>
                              >>>> of all states, including
                              the US, are subject to a clear<br>
                              >>>> international regime
                              based on human rights, and any such regime<br>
                              >>>> should have adequate
                              enforcement capabilities.<br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>>> Can we discuss this
                              here...<br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>>> While once in a while we
                              as a global civil society group can make<br>
                              >>>> specific appeals to one
                              government or the other, but I am
                              unwilling<br>
                              >>>> to convert US government
                              to be 'the' key duty bearer and appellate<br>
                              >>>> body for global justice.
                              In doing this is a deeper politics, and<br>
                              >>>> that is my principal
                              objection to this statement - not to what
                              the<br>
                              >>>> statmement says, but what
                              it does not. However, this problem can<br>
                              >>>> easily be addressed if
                              the statement includes an appeal for
                              global<br>
                              >>>> legal frameworks for the
                              same purpose..... Are the framers of the<br>
                              >>>> statement willing to
                              consider this?<br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>>> Another unconnected
                              point, I often see statements that are
                              signed by<br>
                              >>>> various actors using the
                              BestBits as a facilitating platform,<br>
                              >>>> without them being
                              developed and signed on the behalf of the<br>
                              >>>> BestBits group/
                              coalition, then after being signed
                               propositioned as<br>
                              >>>> BestBits statements.
                              Recently I saw such a reference in the
                              press,<br>
                              >>>> about a statement that
                              was never signed by the group as a whole<br>
                              >>>> being called as a
                              BestBits statement. This proposed letter
                              also<br>
                              >>>> refers to an earlier
                              statement being of BestBits coalition
                              whereas<br>
                              >>>> it was never signed by
                              the group as a whole...<br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>>> parminder<br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>>> On Wednesday 24 July 2013
                              06:38 AM, Emma Llanso wrote:<br>
                              >>>>> Dear all,<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> As you may be aware,
                              the US Privacy and Civil Liberties
                              Oversight<br>
                              >>>>> Board is accepting
                              comments commentary regarding the US<br>
                              >>>>> government's
                              surveillance programs under the PATRIOT
                              Act and FISA.<br>
                              >>>>> (I've included some
                              information about PCLOB below in case
                              you're<br>
                              >>>>> not familiar with
                              this entity.)  I'd like to share with you
                              a draft<br>
                              >>>>> was put together by
                              CDT, with feedback from a number of folks
                              on<br>
                              >>>>> this list, that
                              focuses on the impact these programs have
                              on the<br>
                              >>>>> human rights of
                              individuals outside the US:<br>
                              >>>>> <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/17BWIev_DybbML3ObDCORkW83THrNGuJrHlV5sQLdYA0/edit?usp=sharing"
                                target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/17BWIev_DybbML3ObDCORkW83THrNGuJrHlV5sQLdYA0/edit?usp=sharing</a><br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> We feel that the
                              draft text is at a point where it's ready
                              to be<br>
                              >>>>> shared with the
                              broader Best Bits community for comment.
                               Please<br>
                              >>>>> share any comments
                              you have on the letter text with the whole
                              list.<br>
                              >>>>> (I will be traveling
                              on Wednesday and so slow to respond to<br>
                              >>>>> email.)  Ideally,
                              we'd like to have a final draft of the
                              letter<br>
                              >>>>> text available to
                              circulate during the day on Thursday,
                              giving us<br>
                              >>>>> about a week to
                              solicit sign-on from as broad an array of
                              groups as<br>
                              >>>>> possible.  This is a
                              very compressed timeframe, unfortunately,
                              but<br>
                              >>>>> the deadline for
                              submitting comments is August 1st, so
                              there is not<br>
                              >>>>> much flexibility in
                              the schedule.<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> The Best Bits interim
                              steering committee has agreed to host the<br>
                              >>>>> final letter text on
                              the Best Bits website to facilitate
                              sign-on<br>
                              >>>>> once we've reached
                              that point.<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> It's worth noting
                              here that while a joint letter with broad<br>
                              >>>>> international sign in
                              is one way of getting the US government to<br>
                              >>>>> consider the rights
                              of non-US persons, so is flooding PCLOB
                              with<br>
                              >>>>> individual letters
                              from international groups, so please feel
                              free<br>
                              >>>>> to adapt or build on
                              to this letter and submit it separately.
                              We<br>
                              >>>>> intentionally did not
                              make recommendations to PCLOB so as to
                              garner<br>
                              >>>>> broad sign on (more
                              on that below), but individual letters are
                              a<br>
                              >>>>> good opportunity to
                              make specific recommendations.<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> *Background on the
                              letter:*<br>
                              >>>>> PCLOB will be
                              preparing a report and is accepting
                              comments<br>
                              >>>>> <<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.regulations.gov/#%21documentDetail;D=PCLOB-2013-0005-0001"
                                target="_blank">http://www.regulations.gov/#%21documentDetail;D=PCLOB-2013-0005-0001</a>><br>
                              >>>>> (with no limitations
                              on who can submit comments) until August
                              1st.<br>
                              >>>>> As many of you know,
                              it's been an uphill battle to get any<br>
                              >>>>> attention on this
                              critical issue of extraterritorial impacts
                              of the<br>
                              >>>>> US surveillance
                              programs. PCLOB hosted an open hearing on
                              the NSA<br>
                              >>>>> program earlier in
                              July, and there was unfortunately only a
                              single<br>
                              >>>>> reference to the
                              human rights of people other than US
                              citizens<br>
                              >>>>> during the entire
                              hearing.  We think this comment process is
                              one of<br>
                              >>>>> the better
                              opportunities that groups from outside the
                              US will have<br>
                              >>>>> in making their
                              opinions about the US surveillance
                              activities<br>
                              >>>>> heard.  I'd highly
                              encourage organizations and individuals to
                              make<br>
                              >>>>> their own comments
                              into this process, in addition to
                              considering<br>
                              >>>>> signing this letter.<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> As a final note, the
                              letter intentionally does not lay out<br>
                              >>>>> recommendations more
                              specific than "take into consideration the<br>
                              >>>>> human rights of
                              individuals outside the US", for several
                              reasons.<br>
                              >>>>> First, it will likely
                              be more difficult for a broad range of
                              groups<br>
                              >>>>> to sign onto
                              something urging very specific legal or
                              policy<br>
                              >>>>> remedies.  Further, I
                              wouldn't want to see a short, easily
                              agreed<br>
                              >>>>> set of
                              recommendations (e.g. focusing on
                              transparency) get<br>
                              >>>>> interpreted to mean
                              that those fixes are the only thing the US<br>
                              >>>>> government needs to
                              do to remedy the situation.  Transparency
                              is an<br>
                              >>>>> important initial
                              step, but it's far from the only action
                              needed<br>
                              >>>>> here (a point CDT
                              will be emphasizing in our individual
                              comments to<br>
                              >>>>> PCLOB).  Again, I'd
                              strongly recommend groups file individual<br>
                              >>>>> comments as well,
                              particularly if you have specific
                              recommendations<br>
                              >>>>> and actions for the
                              Board.<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> Looking forward to
                              your comments,<br>
                              >>>>> Emma<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> *PCLOB - WHAT IS IT?*
                              -<br>
                              >>>>> <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.federalregister.gov/agencies/privacy-and-civil-liberties-oversight-board"
                                target="_blank">https://www.federalregister.gov/agencies/privacy-and-civil-liberties-oversight-board</a><br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> The Privacy and Civil
                              Liberties Oversight Board is an advisory
                              body<br>
                              >>>>> to assist the
                              President and other senior Executive
                              branch officials<br>
                              >>>>> in ensuring that
                              concerns with respect to privacy and civil<br>
                              >>>>> liberties are
                              appropriately considered in the
                              implementation of all<br>
                              >>>>> laws, regulations,
                              and executive branch policies related to
                              war<br>
                              >>>>> against terrorism.<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> Recommended by the
                              July 22, 2004, report of the National
                              Commission<br>
                              >>>>> on Terrorist Attacks
                              Upon the United States, the Privacy and
                              Civil<br>
                              >>>>> Liberties Oversight
                              Board was established by the Intelligence<br>
                              >>>>> Reform and Terrorism
                              Prevention Act of 2004. It consists of
                              five<br>
                              >>>>> members appointed by
                              and serving at the pleasure of the
                              President.<br>
                              >>>>> The Board is part of
                              the White House Office within the
                              Executive<br>
                              >>>>> Office of the
                              President and supported by an Executive
                              Director and<br>
                              >>>>> staff.<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> The Board advises the
                              President and other senior executive
                              branch<br>
                              >>>>> officials to ensure
                              that concerns with respect to privacy and
                              civil<br>
                              >>>>> liberties are
                              appropriately considered in the
                              implementation of all<br>
                              >>>>> laws, regulations,
                              and executive branch policies related to
                              efforts<br>
                              >>>>> to protect the Nation
                              against terrorism. This includes advising
                              on<br>
                              >>>>> whether adequate
                              guidelines, supervision, and oversight
                              exist to<br>
                              >>>>> protect these
                              important legal rights of all Americans.
                              In addition,<br>
                              >>>>> the Board is
                              specifically charged with responsibility
                              for reviewing<br>
                              >>>>> the terrorism
                              information sharing practices of executive
                              branch<br>
                              >>>>> departments and
                              agencies to determine whether guidelines
                              designed<br>
                              >>>>> to appropriately
                              protect privacy and civil liberties are
                              being<br>
                              >>>>> followed, including
                              those issued by the President on December
                              16,<br>
                              >>>>> 2005. In the course
                              of performing these functions within the<br>
                              >>>>> executive branch, the
                              Board seeks the views of private sector,<br>
                              >>>>> non-profit and
                              academic institutions, Members of
                              Congress, and all<br>
                              >>>>> other interested
                              parties and individuals on these issues.<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> This agency has
                              published 13 articles<br>
                              >>>>> <<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/search?conditions%5Bagency_ids%5D%5B%5D=438&skip_results=1#advanced"
                                target="_blank">https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/search?conditions%5Bagency_ids%5D%5B%5D=438&skip_results=1#advanced</a>><br>
                              >>>>> since 1994.<br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>><br>
                              >>>>> --<br>
                              >>>>> Emma J. Llansó<br>
                              >>>>> Policy Counsel<br>
                              >>>>> Center for Democracy
                              & Technology<br>
                              >>>>> 1634 I Street NW,
                              Suite 1100<br>
                              >>>>> Washington, DC 20006<br>
                              >>>>> 202-407-8818 |
                              @cendemtech <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://twitter.com/#%21/CenDemTech" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/#%21/CenDemTech</a>>
                              |<br>
                              >>>>> @ellanso <<a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="https://twitter.com/#%21/ellanso"
                                target="_blank">https://twitter.com/#%21/ellanso</a>><br>
                              >>>><br>
                              >>><br>
                              >><br>
                              >><br>
                              ><br>
                              <br>
                              <br>
                              --</p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal">Katitza Rodriguez<br>
                          International Rights Director<br>
                          Electronic Frontier Foundation<br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:katitza@eff.org"
                            target="_blank">katitza@eff.org</a><br>
                          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                            href="mailto:katitza@datos-personales.org"
                            target="_blank">katitza@datos-personales.org</a>
                          (personal email)<br>
                          <br>
                          Please support EFF - Working to protect your
                          digital rights and freedom<br>
                          of speech since 1990</p>
                      </div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
                        <br clear="all">
                        <br>
                        -- <br>
                        Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
                        The Internet Democracy Project<br>
                        <br>
                        +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs<br>
                        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in/"
                          target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a></p>
                    </div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                  </div>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <br clear="all">
        <br>
        -- <br>
        Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
        The Internet Democracy Project<br>
        <br>
        +91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs<br>
        <a moz-do-not-send="true"
          href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in/" target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a><br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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