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Totally agree.<br>
<br>
best,<br>
Graciela<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Em 6/14/13 7:37 AM, Ginger Paque
escreveu:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CALCecM9tyNH8cSAc+7-tmoZowBPrwpFYf=az4uMkHS3RaPfSAg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>I agree strongly with Marianne here. Yes, some of us
receive multiple copies: that is our choice. I would rather
see the discussion on several lists and reach a wider group,
than have it closed off because we might choose not to
subscribe to yet another list. If anyone does not know how to
create filters and folders, I know there are people on the
lists who are willing to help.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Hmm. Maybe the welcome email to discussion lists could
include tips on filtering messages? Does a message or tips
sheet already exist? If not, I may work on one this weekend.
Any thoughts on that?<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Thanks to everyone for their work on this important
discussion. I am sure I am not the only one who reads with
avid interest but does not often intervene. Please do not
underestimate the importance these discussions have for
'readers'.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Have a great weekend, Ginger<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
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style="font-size:10pt"></span></i></b></span></div>
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<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 14 June 2013 04:01, Marianne
Franklin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:m.i.franklin@gold.ac.uk" target="_blank">m.i.franklin@gold.ac.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-GB">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear
all</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">This
issue is important, has generated a lot of energy
and is moving some important mobilization forward.
These discussions are perhaps not for everybody and
having them come twice/three times can require a lot
of filing and deleting. But this is not difficult.
People I am sure can exercise their own delete/file
discretion.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">No
one list owns the discussion, this belongs to us all
in one way or another. I move we keep the threads
open to all and so accessible to all lists at the
same time. Best Bits folk are leading the drafting
and IRP folk are contributing and many many others
are listening and watching from all corners of all
lists. Why on earth would we want to confine this
conversation?!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">MF</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kevin Bankston<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 13 June 2013 20:04<br>
<b>To:</b> Anne Jellema<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Anriette Esterhuysen; <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:webwewant@googlegroups.com"
target="_blank">webwewant@googlegroups.com</a>;
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a>;
IRP<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [IRPCoalition] [bestbits]
How to target companies, and other follow-up
ideas [WAS: Re: Delivery of international civil
society letter to Congress]</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In the interest of moving forward
in a concerted but not confused way, I think it
might be worthwhile starting a separate list focused
on solely this issue such that relevant and
interested people from the three coalitions can
participate and then report back to their respective
coalitions as necessary. The crossposting is getting
very difficult and confusing and somewhat
unnecessary especially considering how many of us
are in all three groups. What do people think?<br>
<br>
Sent via mobile</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jun 13, 2013, at 1:21 PM, Anne Jellema <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anne@webfoundation.org"
target="_blank">anne@webfoundation.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Picking up on the earlier
comments from Parminder et al re corporate
culpability: I support these points. I think
that beyond this letter, we should consider a
separate consumer-driven action that directly
targets one or more of the companies that have
given into the NSA. Such an action could be
hugely successful, especially if we can keep the
ask simple so that ordinary facebook, skype
(microsoft) or google users can easily
understand it. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In general, seems to me
that with both the HRC statement and this
letter under our belts (and huge congrats and
thanks to everyone for getting that done so
fast], we need to start mapping a slightly
longer term game plan for the next few months.
There is lobby work to be done on getting the
HRC to act on our demands to them; we should
continue to offer global solidarity to the
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://stopwatching.us"
target="_blank">stopwatching.us</a> campaign
where it can be effective in increasing that
campaign's chances of success domestically;
there may be other domestic campaigns emerging
in other countries affected by govt complicity
with US surveillance that we should support;
and as mentioned above we might want to plan a
consumer-facing action at some point in the
near future, or work together to take on other
targets that seem strategic. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Who will be in Tunis to
strategise this weekend?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anne</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at
5:27 PM, Anriette Esterhuysen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anriette@apc.org"
target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all<br>
<br>
Just thinking through the timeline... as
Jeremy won't be online for a<br>
while longer. If we want to deliver on
Monday afternoon Washington DC<br>
time, we would still want to give people
enough time to sign on... so we<br>
would still want to have the final ready
by around 12h00 UTC/GMT Friday<br>
so that we can circulate it for signatures
on Friday in and Monday<br>
morning. That should allow enough time for
people in all time zones to<br>
have a chance to look at the letter,
circulate and decide on signing on.<br>
<br>
Michael, why don't you try to do a clean
version later today (as you<br>
have offered) so that Jeremy has something
to work with when he starts<br>
his day tomorrow?<br>
<span style="color:#888888"><br>
Anriette</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
On 13/06/2013 17:19, Anriette
Esterhuysen wrote:<br>
> Dear all (copying WebWeWant and
IRP to keep everyone in the same loop)<br>
><br>
> I had quick consult with Deborah
Brown and while there are pros and
cons<br>
> to delaying, it seems that strong
sign-on from a large number of<br>
> organisations is very important.
So I would also be happy for us go for<br>
> Monday unless there are strong
suggestions to the contrary. It also<br>
> seems as if the exact delivery
channel has not yet been figured out
yet.<br>
> I think it would make sense for
someone based in Washington DC to do
the<br>
> handing over personally on our
behalf. That would be FreePress, CDT,<br>
> HRW... correct?<br>
><br>
> For those who might not have it
handy, the letter is being developed
here:<br>
><br>
> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/your_name_here"
target="_blank">http://igcaucus.org:9001/p/your_name_here</a><br>
><br>
> Discussion of the contents is
taking place on <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">
bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a><br>
><br>
> I suggest we let Jeremy Malcolm
decide when and how to deal with the<br>
> final tidying up. Jeremy, you
have lots of volunteers to help with
that.<br>
><br>
> Best<br>
><br>
> Anriette<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 13/06/2013 16:16, Carolina
Rossini wrote:<br>
>> I like parminder suggestions
on non-US citizens.<br>
>><br>
>> I also agree with suggestion
on delivering this on Monday.<br>
>><br>
>> Who could take a final look
for style and grammar? Much of it was
lost<br>
>> during the editing process. I
can try, but it would be better if a
native<br>
>> english speaker take the lead
on the final round.<br>
>><br>
>> Carol<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 10:08
AM, parminder<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>wrote:<br>
>>> The statement has turned
out well. However, I remain concerned
about the<br>
>>> fact that the issue of
non citizens related content
surveillance has<br>
> not at<br>
>>> all been addressed by the
US authorities. They havent bothered
to say a<br>
>>> word on it (not that it
is easily defensible). I would like
the group to<br>
>>> consider adding the
following paragraph somewhere......<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> "We are extremely
disappointed that, in all the post
'disclosures'<br>
>>> statements, US
authorities have only insisted that
there was no access<br>
>>> obtained to content
related to *US citizens*, and just
their<br>
>>> communication meta-data
was collected. There has not been a
word on the<br>
>>> issue of large-scale
access to content related to non US
citizens,<br>
> which is<br>
>>> a violation of their
human rights. The focussing of the US
authorities on<br>
>>> the difference between
treatment of US citizens and
non-citizens on an<br>
>>> issue which essentially
relates to violation of human rights
is very<br>
>>> problematic. Human rights
are universal, and every government
must<br>
> refrain<br>
>>> from violating them for
all people, and not merely for its
citizens. The<br>
>>> current and future US law
and practices on this matter should
take<br>
> note of<br>
>>> this. "<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I still have issues with
the role of the involved companies,
which I<br>
>>> will address in a
separate email. I am fine though to
address them<br>
>>> separately, through a
possible second statement.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Meanwhile the second
sentence in the following somehow
looks not quite<br>
>>> right.<br>
>>><br>
>>> "The introduction of
untargeted surveillance mechanisms at
the heart of<br>
>>> global digital
communications severely threatens
human rights in the<br>
>>> digital age. *These new
forms of decentralized power reflect
fundamental<br>
>>> shifts in the structure
of information systems in modern<br>
> societies**.*[3] and<br>
>>> aAny step in this
direction needs to be scrutinized
through ample, deep<br>
>>> and transparent debate.
Interference with the human rights of
citizens by<br>
>>> any government, their own
or foreign, is unacceptable."<br>
>>><br>
>>> What is being referred to
as a 'form of decentralised power'?
From the<br>
>>> reference I take it, it
is about 'arab spring' kind of
people's<br>
> power, but<br>
>>> that doesnt look clear
from the way the sentence is wedged
between the<br>
>>> other two sentences...<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> parminder<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Thursday 13 June 2013
05:11 PM, Anja Kovacs wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Also, in response to
Parminder's questions: while we had
agreed from the<br>
>>> beginning that the focus
of this particular statement would be
the US<br>
>>> Congress, I feel (and I
just reread it to check) that it does
foreground<br>
>>> the concerns of non-US
citizens/resident (as it was meant to
do in my<br>
>>> reading as well).
Parminder, do you really feel that
doesn't come out at<br>
>>> all? In that case, we do
have some more work to do....<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 13 June 2013 16:28,
Anja Kovacs <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anja@internetdemocracy.in"
target="_blank">anja@internetdemocracy.in</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Anriette, is there a
strong reason why you feel we should
release this<br>
>>>> tomorrow already? My
inclination would be to agree with
Nnenna and<br>
> others<br>
>>>> and to wait until
Monday, but would be keen to know why
you feel<br>
> tomorrow<br>
>>>> is a better idea.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 13 June 2013
14:37, Nnenna Nwakanma <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com"
target="_blank">nnenna75@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Hi people<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I will say
submit on Monday. When you kick off
the week with it, you<br>
>>>>> will have ample
time to rave up media attention on
it..<br>
>>>>> I am hoping
Mandela does not give up the fight..
because that will<br>
>>>>> overshadow any
other Internet news...<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I am booked for
the very first Africa Internet Summit
in Lusaka next<br>
>>>>> week. I do hope
to be able to draw attention to the
statement, as<br>
> well as<br>
>>>>> some that have
been made by Best Bits.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Best of the
day..<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Nnenna<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 13,
2013 at 8:51 AM, Anriette Esterhuysen<br>
> <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anriette@apc.org"
target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a>>wrote:<br>
>> Greetings everyone<br>
>><br>
>> Content is coming along well.<br>
>><br>
>> Jeremy, in response to your
question, what about giving people
until<br>
>> 21h00 GMT/UTC today,
Thursday. Then you can close the text,
finalise it,<br>
>> and release for sign-ons and
give people until 16h00 GMT/UTC Friday
for<br>
>> sign ons and then we can send
it off before the end of the business
day<br>
>> in Washington DC (will be
12h00 in DC).<br>
>><br>
>> That will accommodate
Parminder's request, but still enable
us to get<br>
>> enough sign ons and get the
letter to Washington DC on Friday.
Only<br>
>> region that will have a
shortish period for sign ons will be
the<br>
>> Americas.<br>
>><br>
>> Will this work?<br>
>><br>
>> Anriette<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 13/06/2013 08:13, Jeremy
Malcolm wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
>>>> The Internet
Democracy Project<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B91%209899028053"
target="_blank">+91 9899028053</a> |
@anjakovacs<br>
>>>> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in"
target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
>>> The Internet Democracy
Project<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B91%209899028053"
target="_blank">+91 9899028053</a> |
@anjakovacs<br>
>>> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in"
target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>><span class="HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888"><br>
<br>
--<br>
------------------------------------------------------<br>
anriette esterhuysen <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anriette@apc.org"
target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a><br>
executive director, association
for progressive communications<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.apc.org"
target="_blank">www.apc.org</a><br>
po box 29755, melville 2109<br>
south africa<br>
tel/fax <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B27%2011%20726%201692" target="_blank">+27 11 726 1692</a><br>
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style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
IRP mailing list<br>
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href="mailto:IRP@lists.internetrightsandprinciples.org"
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
Graciela Selaimen<br>
Instituto Nupef<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.nupef.org.br">www.nupef.org.br</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.politics.org.br">www.politics.org.br</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.rets.org.br">www.rets.org.br</a><br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.tiwa.org.br">www.tiwa.org.br</a><br>
****************<br>
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