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<font face="Verdana">I am happy to accept Gene's amendment, but
Kevin's goes too far. will justify my comment in a short while...
parminder <br>
<br>
Kevin, If you ask me, I believe that the collection of <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Thursday 13 June 2013 09:34 PM,
Kevin Bankston wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:44286165-5A5B-4CC0-9CB8-36ED5D91F315@cdt.org"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
I strongly support the general sentiment that Parminder is seeking
to add. For what it's worth, here's a post that I and my
colleague Emily wrote yesterday on the same point, urging our
domestic audience and policymakers to pay more attention to the
international/human rights implications, entitled "It's not just
about US: How the NSA Threatens Human Rights Internationally":
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.cdt.org/blogs/1206it%E2%80%99s-not-just-about-us-how-nsa-threatens-human-rights-internationally">https://www.cdt.org/blogs/1206it%E2%80%99s-not-just-about-us-how-nsa-threatens-human-rights-internationally</a><br>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, I think it's worth noting at this point that
because of the various company denials (some of them quite
strenuous and clear), because of the Washington Post
stepping back from some of its reporting, and because of
conflicting reports in other major news outlets like the New
York Times and Wired, we actually *do not know* how broad
the data collection being done via "PRISM" under the FISA
Amendments Act actually is; in other words, we have no idea
whether or how proportionate it is. It very well might be
incredibly broad, which is certainly my fear; it may also be
more targeted than we suspect. Meanwhile, the other conduct
that's been exposed--the disclosure of phone records--was in
regard to calls made to or from or inside the US. So, for
that reason, I agree with Gene that it would be preferable
that we have a little wiggle room--we actually *don't know*
that there has been "large scale" access to non-US persons
content at this point, even if we strongly suspect it.
Furthermore, no one has said there was "no access obtained
to content related to US citizens"; they've simply said
(which is BS) "no one's listening to your calls", in
reference to the PATRIOT 215 order for phone records. So,
I'd suggest editing Parminder's suggestion into something
like...</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font face="Verdana">"We are extremely disappointed that,
in the wake of the latest disclosures, statements by the
US government have focused solely on assuring the American
people that their privacy rights have been respected. The
right to privacy against overreaching government
surveillance is a human right. </font><font
face="Verdana">Human rights are universal, belonging to
all people regardless of nationality, and every government
must refrain from violating them for all people, and not
merely for its citizens. The US government's current and
future surveillance law and practice must reflect this
reality and respect everyone's human rights."</font><br>
<div>
<div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
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<div style="word-wrap:
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<div>____________________________________</div>
<div>Kevin S. Bankston</div>
<div>Senior Counsel and Free
Expression Director</div>
<div>Center for Democracy
& Technology</div>
<div>1634 I St NW, Suite 1100</div>
<div>Washington, DC 20006</div>
<div>202.407.8834 direct</div>
<div>202.637.0968 fax</div>
<div><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kbankston@cdt.org">kbankston@cdt.org</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Follow CDT on Twitter at
@cendemtech</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></span>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Jun 13, 2013, at 11:16 AM, Anja Kovacs
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:anja@internetdemocracy.in"><anja@internetdemocracy.in></a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>+1 on Parminder's additional suggested
paragraph, though in its original form (certainly
many of us feel our rights have been violated, not
sure we should leave it up to the US government to
decide whehter or not that has indeed
happened...).<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Thanks,<br>
Anja<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 13 June 2013 20:02,
michael gurstein <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:gurstein@gmail.com"
target="_blank">gurstein@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
can take a look for style and grammar…
Just alert me when there is a "finalized"
text… I'm out and about all day today so
won't likely get to in until tonight (East
coast Canada time) or tomorrow morning.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">M</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">bestbits-request@lists.bestbits.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Carolina Rossini<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 13, 2013 10:16
AM<br>
<b>To:</b> parminder<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bestbits@lists.bestbits.net"
target="_blank">bestbits@lists.bestbits.net</a></span></p>
<div class="im"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [bestbits] Delivery of
International civil society letter to
Congress to follow up from HRC statement</div>
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I like parminder
suggestions on non-US citizens. </p>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
I also agree with suggestion on
delivering this on Monday.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Who could take a
final look for style and grammar? Much
of it was lost during the editing
process. I can try, but it would be
better if a native english speaker
take the lead on the final round. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Carol</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 13,
2013 at 10:08 AM, parminder <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net"
target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<br>
<span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">The
statement has turned out well.
However, I remain concerned
about the fact that the issue of
non citizens related content
surveillance has not at all been
addressed by the US authorities.
They havent bothered to say a
word on it (not that it is
easily defensible). I would
like the group to consider
adding the following paragraph
somewhere......</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">"We
are extremely disappointed that,
in all the post 'disclosures'
statements, US authorities have
only insisted that there was no
access obtained to content
related to <i>US citizens</i>,
and just their communication
meta-data was collected. There
has not been a word on the
issue of large-scale access to
content related to non US
citizens, which is a violation
of their human rights. The
focussing of the US authorities
on the difference between
treatment of US citizens and
non-citizens on an issue which
essentially relates to violation
of human rights is very
problematic. Human rights are
universal, and every government
must refrain from violating them
for all people, and not merely
for its citizens. The current
and future US law and practices
on this matter should take note
of this. "</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><br>
I still have issues with the
role of the involved companies,
which I will address in a
separate email. I am fine though
to address them separately,
through a possible second
statement. <br>
<br>
Meanwhile the second sentence in
the following somehow looks not
quite right. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">"</span>T<span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">he
introduction of<s> untargeted</s>
surveillance mechanisms at the
heart of global digital
communications severely
threatens human rights in the
digital age. <b><i>These new
forms of decentralized power
reflect fundamental shifts
in the structure of
information systems in
modern societies.</i></b>
[3] <s>and a</s>Any step in
this direction needs to be
scrutinized through ample, deep
and transparent debate.
Interference with the human
rights of citizens by any
government, their own or
foreign, is unacceptable."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">What is
being referred to as a 'form of
decentralised power'? From the
reference I take it, it is about
'arab spring' kind of people's
power, but that doesnt look
clear from the way the sentence
is wedged between the other two
sentences...<span
style="color:#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
<span>parminder </span><br>
<br>
</span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thursday
13 June 2013 05:11 PM, Anja
Kovacs wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Also, in
response to Parminder's
questions: while we had
agreed from the beginning
that the focus of this
particular statement would
be the US Congress, I feel
(and I just reread it to
check) that it does
foreground the concerns of
non-US citizens/resident (as
it was meant to do in my
reading as well). Parminder,
do you really feel that
doesn't come out at all? In
that case, we do have some
more work to do....</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 13
June 2013 16:28, Anja
Kovacs <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:anja@internetdemocracy.in"
target="_blank">anja@internetdemocracy.in</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Anriette,
is there a strong
reason why you feel we
should release this
tomorrow already? My
inclination would be
to agree with Nnenna
and others and to wait
until Monday, but
would be keen to know
why you feel tomorrow
is a better idea. </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On
13 June 2013 14:37,
Nnenna Nwakanma <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:nnenna75@gmail.com" target="_blank">nnenna75@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi people</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">I
will say submit
on Monday. When
you kick off the
week with it,
you will have
ample time to
rave up media
attention on
it..</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I am hoping Mandela does not give up the
fight.. because
that will
overshadow any
other Internet
news...</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
I am booked for
the very first
Africa Internet
Summit in Lusaka
next week. I do
hope to be able
to draw
attention to the
statement, as
well as some
that have been
made by Best
Bits.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
Best of the
day..</p>
</div>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#888888">Nnenna</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
<div>
<p
class="MsoNormal">On
Thu, Jun 13,
2013 at 8:51 AM,
Anriette
Esterhuysen <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a>>
wrote:</p>
<p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
<br>
-----BEGIN PGP
SIGNED
MESSAGE-----<br>
Hash: SHA1<br>
<br>
Greetings
everyone<br>
<br>
Content is
coming along
well.<br>
<br>
Jeremy, in
response to your
question, what
about giving
people until<br>
21h00 GMT/UTC
today, Thursday.
Then you can
close the text,
finalise it,<br>
and release for
sign-ons and
give people
until 16h00
GMT/UTC Friday
for<br>
sign ons and
then we can send
it off before
the end of the
business day<br>
in Washington DC
(will be 12h00
in DC).<br>
<br>
That will
accommodate
Parminder's
request, but
still enable us
to get<br>
enough sign ons
and get the
letter to
Washington DC on
Friday. Only<br>
region that will
have a shortish
period for sign
ons will be the
Americas.<br>
<br>
Will this work?<br>
<br>
Anriette<br>
<br>
<br>
On 13/06/2013
08:13, Jeremy
Malcolm wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
- --<br>
-
------------------------------------------------------<br>
anriette
esterhuysen <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:anriette@apc.org" target="_blank">anriette@apc.org</a><br>
executive
director,
association for
progressive
communications<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.apc.org/" target="_blank">www.apc.org</a><br>
po box 29755,
melville 2109<br>
south africa<br>
tel/fax <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B27%2011%20726%201692" target="_blank">+27 11 726 1692</a><br>
-----BEGIN PGP
SIGNATURE-----<br>
Version: GnuPG
v1.4.11
(GNU/Linux)<br>
Comment: Using
GnuPG with
Thunderbird - <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.enigmail.net/" target="_blank">http://www.enigmail.net/</a><br>
<br>
iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJRuYgcAAoJEJ0z+TtuxKew024H/RGq5qboWUylw9fs7Mg0mgZy<br>
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pckH4i7p23UQCbyTxdfn6pcqV6vnxAkev/2UjbR0sFrb3yBt8YQr/vrYKjnWYPgn<br>
u0rGffZ+UVKEBzuNQn57VBpYKe1KQeETCrv52eVfSR3gB3vzpYtvzfUnBHY7KzZ6<br>
GrEf5dzk36zcIHyPHqfCl2DpcCzI5HgyzQuFKxGEzA+YKQj6ISFJFhQ1Z5JAdmxN<br>
LQryTnfqihzYmhuKpApJr/PAvSd4PMcwMoSSLIMbNb77H7ewP6IopVKiFFM4iAA=<br>
=ssiT<br>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#888888">--
<br>
Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
The Internet Democracy
Project<br>
<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B91%209899028053" target="_blank">+91 9899028053</a> |
@anjakovacs<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in/" target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
The Internet Democracy
Project<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B91%209899028053"
target="_blank">+91
9899028053</a> |
@anjakovacs<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in/"
target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">
</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<b>Carolina Rossini</b> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#3333ff"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://carolinarossini.net/"
target="_blank">http://carolinarossini.net/</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#666666">+ 1
6176979389</span><br>
<span style="color:#666666">*</span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:carolina.rossini@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><span
style="color:#666666">carolina.rossini@gmail.com</span></a><span
style="color:#666666">*</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#666666">skype:
carolrossini</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:#666666">@carolinarossini</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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-- <br>
Dr. Anja Kovacs<br>
The Internet Democracy Project<br>
<br>
+91 9899028053 | @anjakovacs<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.internetdemocracy.in/"
target="_blank">www.internetdemocracy.in</a><br>
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